Rome visit, June 2008 - 57

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    These pictures were taken during a trip to Rome in Jun 2008, where I presented a 2-day seminar on "Web 2.0".

    I noticed this couple, sitting on the railing that separates the vehicular roadway from the pedestrian part of the Piazza del Popolo. I couldn't tell if they were arguing, engaged in a who-blinks-first? contest, or just having a thoughtful conversation...

    I can't help wondering if this couple had any idea how many people would look at their picture (a little over 14,000 as of January 2012), and how many different bizarre blog postings -- well over a hundred, at this point, from all over the world -- would use the image of their conversation to illustrate their message. To see all the places where the photo has been published (at least, all of the ones that I'm aware of), see below...

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    Note: this photo was published on Jul 8, 2008 in a blog posting entitled "Reader Question: Handling Pressure to Apologize." It was also published in an Aug 21, 2008 blog article entitled "Marriage, money, debt, and divorce?" And it was published in a Jan 27, 2009 blog article entitled "Complaining’s Place In Marriage." In addition, it was published in a Jan 13, 2009 blog titled "Karen Kalisek’s Top 20 Things To Help (1-5)." More recently, it was published in a March 17, 2009 "Mind Hack" blog article titled "Dominant chemicals." And it was published in a Sep 13, 2009 blog titled "How to Fight With Your Partner."

    A few days later, it was published in a Sep 18, 2009 blog titled "Couple’s Counseling: Why I Don’t Take Sides." And it was published in an Oct 20, 2009 Greek blog titled "Η ψυχολογική κακοποίηση των ανδρών." It was also published in a Nov 4, 2009 blog titled "10 tips for traveling as a couple - and not breaking up." And it was published in a Nov 14, 2009 blog titled "How Thoughtful Words Save Marriages." It was also published in an undated (late-November 2009) blog titled "Democratia cuplului." It was also published, on page 5 of 8, in a Nov 14, 2009 blog titled "Best of the Week: Forbidden Gifts, Landlord Secrets & More."

    One of the more unusual publications of this photo was in a Dec 7, 2009 blog titled "Separated Spouses Filing Bankruptcy Together." It was also published in a Nov 30, 2009 blog titled "The Language Barrier."

    Moving into 2010, the photo was published in a Jan 7, 2010 blog titled "Everyone has a bad day." It was also published in a Jan 7, 2010 blog titled "Dealing with travel-partner conflicts." And it was published in an undated (Jan 2010) blog titled "Avoiding the Heartbreak Hostel: 10 Simple Rules For Backpacking Lovin’ for Female Travellers." It was also published in a Jan 18, 2010 Greek blog titled "Τι συμβαίνει στην αγάπη μετά το γάμοl." And it was published in a Jan 20, 2010 blog titled "CityFiles: Letting them down easy (he said/she said)."

    It was also published in a Jan 22, 2010 blog titled "Infidelity Doesn't Have to Mean Divorce," and a Jan 24, 2010 blog titled "Both partners need to be involved." It was also published in a Feb 5, 2010 Dutch blog titled "‘Wij’ gelukkiger dan ‘ik’." And it was published in an undated (Feb 2010) blog titled "Adult Separation Anxiety." And it was published in a Jan 30, 2010 Wikihow blog page with the same title as the caption that I used for this Flickr page. I've also discovered that it was published in a Feb 12, 2010 Canadian blog titled "We need to talk (about the history of marriage counselling)." And it was published in an undated (Mar 2010) blog titled "Communication Skill Lesson Plan." It was also published in a Mar 25, 2010 blog titled "Marital Gridlock And Growing Up." It was also published in a Mar 28, 2010 blog titled "In today’s culture, sex is public but love is private." And it was published in a Mar 30, 2010 blog titled "Professional honeymooners: dream job or nightmare?"

    There's more: the photo was published in an Apr 5, 2010 blog titled "John Mayer Was Right: You Gotta Say What You Need To Say." And it was published in an Apr 6, 2010 blog titled "Miscarraiges [sic] Strain Marriages." It was also published in an Apr 8, 2010 blog titled "Why We Stay With Unfaithful Partners." And it was published in an Apr 9, 2010 blog titled "Foursquare Becomes Great Predictor Of Divorce," as well as an Apr 10, 2010 blog titled Relationship Advice | Too Immature for Relationship It was also published in an Apr 13, 2010 Italian blog titled "Uomini col Mestruo, un gruppo su Facebook smaschera i senza palle." And it was published in a May 14, 2010 Peruvian(?) blog titled "Codependencia: Cuando la propia identidad se pierde en la pareja." It was also published in a Jun 11, 2010 blog titled "Is Divorce Contagious?" It was also published in a Jun 25, 2010 blog titled "The Magic Of Making Up – Authors Overview," and a Jun 26, 2010 blog titled "The struggle for control in a relationship." A similar blog, titled "The stages of relationships: Phase 3: The power struggle," was published on Jun 28, 2010; and on the same day, the photo was published in a Trés Sugar blog titled "Finding Out Why We Fight Might Help Us Patch Things Up." It was also published in a Jun 29, 2010 Mashable blog titled "Facebook Becoming a Prime Source for Divorce Case Evidence," and I'm pretty sure that the Spanish edition of the same blog appeared on Jun 30, 2010 with a title of "Servicio gratis de mediación para divorcios en Gipuzkoa."

    Moving into the second half of 2010, the photo was published in a Jul 2, 2010 blog titled " I Want My Husband To Love Me Again – 4 Ways To Rekindle Your Romance." It was also published in a Jul 8, 2010 blog about insurance, titled "How Can I Convince You?" And it was published in an undated (Jul 2010) blog titled "Adult Separation Anxiety." It was also published in a Jul 12, 2010 blog titled "Temas tabúes en las relaciones de pareja." And it was published in a Jul 14, 2010 blog titled "Initiative to Ban Divorce in California Resurfaces." It was also published in a Jul 15, 2010 Dating 1001 blog, with the same title as the caption that I used on this Flickr page. It was also published in a Jul 25, 2010 blog titled "Businesses Capitalizing on High Unemployment." And it was published in a Jul 29, 2010 blog titled "How to Deal With Financial Infidelity," as well as a Jul 29, 2010 blog titled "Words of Wisdom: Ryan Holiday. It was also published in a Sep 6, 2010 blog titled "Living together apart – Conviviendo juntos pero separados." And it was published in a Sep 15, 2010 blog titled "Is Your Debt A Relationship Killer?" It was also published in a Sep 17, 2010 blog titled "We Got Into An Argument, Part I." And it was published in a Sep 18, 2010 blog titled "Saving It." It was also published in a Sep 25, 2010 blog titled "Help Save My Marriage – What To Do." And it was published in an undated (late Sep) "Dating Advice Expert" blog titled "Marital dispute: An overview of court proceedings." It was also published in a Sep 30, 2010 blog titled "It's a Guy Thing." And it was published in an undated (Oct 2010) blog titled "Dealing with Infidelity is a Response by Couples in Trouble." It was also published in an Oct 15, 2010 Judy Cares blog titled "Is it a Marriage or a Relationship?", as well as an Oct 19, 2010 blog titled "Moving Forward in a Marriage: Forgiving the Minor Mistakes." And it was published in an Oct 26, 2010 blog titled "Relationships should be Easy and fun." It was also published in an Oct 29, 2010 blog titled "I suggested couples counseling and my fiance said “I don’t do counseling. What should I do?", and another Oct 29, 2010 blog titled "Cosas que no debes decir en una cita."

    Moving into November, it was published in a Nov 2, 2010 blog titled "Justicia rechaza el 7% de las demandas de divorcio por no cumplir requisitos." It was also published in an undated (Nov 2010) blog titled "Relationship Break Up Advice – How to Save Your Broken Relationship." And it was published in a Nov 8, 2010 blog titled "Welcome to Improve Sex Life." It was also published in a Nov 15, 2010 blog titled "Question of the Week: How has chronic illness impacted your marriage?", and a Nov 16, 2010 blog titled "Lastest [sic] Debt Counseling News." And it was published in an undated (mid-Nov 2010) Lying Lovers blog titled "Recovering From Infidelity – Crucial Steps to Rebuilding Your Marriage." It was also published in an undated (late Nov 2010) blog titled "Long Distance Relationships: How to Know When it's Time to Call it Quits," and it was published in an undated (late Nov 2010) blog titled "Reconciliation is Possible with the Help of a Couples Counseling NYC Therapist." It was also published in a Dec 3, 2010 blog titled "Will Your Marriage Succeed Or Fail?", as well as a Dec 3, 2010 blog titled "Sole Sisters’ Guide to Keeping Sane While Traveling in Twos." And it was published in a Dec 6, 2010 blog titled "1 de cada 5 divorcios usan a Facebook como prueba de infidelidad." It was also published in an undated (mid-Dec 2010) Hospital Medical Billing Fraud blog titled "Do Infertile People Make Better Parents?" And it was published in a Dec 13, 2010 Polish blog titled "Kobiety kłamią inaczej niż faceci. Kto częściej?." It was also published in a Dec 27, 2010 blog titled "The Easy Way to Make Money Online Everyday." And it was published in a Dec 30, 2010 blog titled "Relationship Cues: Sensing the Unspoken." Finally, it was published in a Dec 31, 2010 blog titled "Divorced and Co-Parenting: How to Get Along With Your Ex."

    Moving into 2011, the photo was first published in a Jan 2, 2011 blog titled " Importance Of Medical Insurance Plans." It was also published in a Jan 3, 2011 blog titled "Car Insurance Tips for Mature Drivers in Florida, as well as a Jan 5, 2011 Forbes.com blog titled "5 Ways Your Partner Can Ruin Your Credit." It was also published in a Jan 6, 2011 "Learn to Earn Online blog, with the same title and descriptive notes as what I had originally written on this Flickr page. It was also published in a Jan 10, 2011 blog titled "Bankruptcy Rules Review." And it was published in an undated (mid-Jan 2011) "Counseling Rehab" blog titled "4 Ways to Treat Your Addiction." It was also published in a Jan 13, 2011 blog titled "Waiting for Debt Help and Free Debt Advice?" And it was published in a Jan 15, 2011 blog titled "Online Dating Tips: How To Create A Great Profile." It was also published in a Jan 16, 2011 blog titled "Farmville Cheats And Associated Dangers," and another Jan 16, 2011 blog titled "Searching For The Fastest Way to Make Money Online?" It was also published in a Jan 17, 2010 pinkblog.it blog titled "Coppia: non perdonare il partner fa bene al rapporto." And it was published in a Jan 18, 2011 blog titled "How to Keep a Conversation Going." It was also published in a Jan 20, 2011 blog titled "5 Tips for Taking a Successful Online Dating Profile Photo." And it was published in an undated (late Jan 2011) blog titled "Why Social And Traditional Media Marketers Should Stop Acting Like Fighting Lovers." It was also published in a Jan 26, 2011 blog titled "Facebook cheating, restaurant websites and living in caves with Dinner Party Download." And it was published in an undated (late Jan 2011) blog titled "Stop Arguing Your Relationships to Death." It was also published in a Jan 30, 2011 blog titled "Ask the Readers: Hiding Money from Your Spouse."

    The photo was also published in an undated (early Feb 2011) blog titled "Debt Relief Consolidation – Tips To Find Free Debt Help Online," with the caption and detailed notes that I provided on this Flickr page, followed by some more serious comments about the details of debt relief consolidation. And it was published in a Feb 8, 2011 blog titled "Female partners of heavy gamblers – victims or enablers?", and a Feb 13, 2011 blog titled "5 Sizzling Online Dating Tips." It was also published in a Feb 15, 2011 blog titled "The 1st Key for Dealing with Marital Strife," and it was published in a Feb 24, 2011 blog titled "Do You Know Your Rights?" It was also published in a Mar 8, 2011 blog titled 4 Reasons Why Open Marriage Doesnt Work," and a Mar 11, 2011 blog titled "What Do Musicians Really Earn Online?" And it was published in a Mar 16,2011 Car Insurance Companies blog, with the same caption and detailed notes that I had written on this Flickr page. It was also published in an undated (mid-Mar 2011) Website titled Especialistas en Divorcios. And it was published in a Mar 21, 2011 blog titled "Make love, not war: enjoy travel as a couple." It was also published in an undated (late Mar 2011) blog titled "Things You Must Know About Free Debt Consolidation Services." And it was published in a Mar 24, 2011 Nice How to Make Money Online Photos blog, with the same caption and detailed notes that I used on this Flickr page. It was also published in a Mar 30, 2011 blog titled "Gründe für die Eifersucht." And it was published in an Apr 7, 2011 blog titled "The Italian Language Learning," as well as an Apr 8, 2011 blog titled "How to Make People Angry," and an Apr 10, 2011 blog titled "Gründe für die Eifersucht." It was also published in an Apr 20, 2011 blog titled "6 Common mistakes that can ruin your relationship." And it was published in an undated (late Apr 2011) blog titled "Cuáles son las señales de una relación abusiva o que no es sana?", as well as an undated (late Apr 2011) blog titled "What are the Signs of an Unhealthy or Abusive Relationship?" It was also published in an Apr 26, 2011 blog titled "How To Make Your Dates More Pleasant And Enjoyable." And it was published in a May 16, 2011 blog titled "Parents Relationship Affects Quality of Children’s Sleep." It was also published in a May 23, 2011 blog titled
    "Want Your Baby to Sleep Through the Night? Try Harmony in Your Relationship." And it was published in a May 27, 2011 blog titled " 'My Wife Won't Have Sex with Me' Is a Pathetic Excuse to Cheat," as well as an undated (late May 2011) blog titled "Why is it so hard to change relationships?"

    It was also published in a Jun 1, 2011 blog titled "Should You Dispute a Performance Appraisal?" And it was published in a Jun 10, 2011 blog titled "Four signs you're heading for divorce," as well as a Jun 10, 2011 blog titled "Becoming a Better Woman From the Inside Out." It was also published in a Jun 11, 2011 blog titled "Discuss How To Earn Money Online," as well as a Jun 11, 2011 blog titled "The Online Dating Game On Twitter – How Does it Work?" And it was published in a Jun 22, 2011 blog titled "Mistakes in Choosing a Marriage Partner," and a Jun 22, 2011 blog titled "Anatomy of A Marital Argument." It was also published in a Jun 30, 2011 blog titled "Talk Money for Relationship Success." And it was published in a Jul 22, 2011 blog titled "Provocative Phrase Friday -- Her marriage was over + 11 Other Writing Prompts." It was also published in an undated (late Jul 2011) blog titled "Communication Skill Lesson Plan." And it was published in a Jul 31, 2011 blog titled "Rebuilding Your Marriage After An Affair." It was also published in an Aug 5,2011 Czech blog titled "Děláte dost pro Váš vztah?", as well as an Aug 5, 2011 blog titled Bankruptcy in San Antonio ? Why Me? And it was published in an Aug 6, 2011 blog titled "Wells Fargo And Wachovia Merger Is Bad News For Divorced Couple." It was also published in an Aug 15, 2011 blog titled "ACCORD report that the Internet is the fastest growing factor for marital difficulties in Ireland - but is that the full story?" And it was published in an Aug 19, 2011 blog titled "Why Senior Citizens Need To Get Reliable Travel Insurance." It was also published in an Aug 24, 2011 blog titled "Vrouwen winnen de meeste rubies." And it was published in an Aug 30, 2011 blog titled "BILL GROSS: Global Economy Is Like A Marriage "Teetering On The Edge Of Divorce"."

    Moving on, the photo was published in a Sep 5, 2011 blog with the curious title of "Gnats' farts and gender" at vickihollett-dot-com-slash-?p=3957". It was also published in a Sep 5, 2011 blog titled "Separated Chileans opt for unconventional living arrangements," as well as a Sep 5, 2011 blog titled "Děláte dost pro Váš vztah?." It was also published in an undated (early Sep 2011) blog titled "Adult Separation Anxiety." And it was published in a Sep 14, 2011 blog titled "It's Not Just About Spanking." It was also published (though I have no idea why) in an Oct 6, 2011 blog titled "San Antonio Storage." It was also published in a Nov 11, 2011 blog titled "La ansiedad por la separación es un trastorno cada vez mas frecuente en nuestros hijos0." And it was published in a Nov 16, 2011 blog titled "Poll: Balancing two ambitious careers." It was also published in a Nov 21, 2011 blog titled "Von Vertrauen und Misstrauen." And it was published in a Nov 23, 2011 blog titled "When Is It Time To Move On From A Relationship," and a Nov 23, 2011 Faith Village blog titled "How to Fight Fairly." It was also published in a Nov 28, 2011 blog titled "5 Questions To Ask Yourself To See If You'll Need A Pre-Nup." And it was published in a Dec 2, 2011 blog titled "Renting a Car in Ireland?", as well as a Dec 5, 2011 blog titled "Relationship Quotes," and another Dec 5, 2011 blog titled "Phrases to Avoid in Conversation – What Not to Say During a Fight with Your Beloved." It was also published in a Dec 6, 2011 blog titled "Single Parents - Dating and Family Strife."

    Moving into 2012, the photo was published in a Jan 2, 2012 blog titled "? Why? ? Auto insurance cos? vile? expensive in the UK?", as well as a Jan 2, 2012 blog titled "I'm 33 years old with a second DUI. What's the best way to go about a job search?", and a Jan 2,2012 blog titled "Ask LH: How Do I Get Out Of An Argument With An Irrational Person?" It was also published in a Jan 4,2012 blog titled "Procurment Homes Need not " Dress" Good?" And it was published in an undated (early Jan 2012) Death Note Wallpaper blog, with the same caption and detailed notes that I had written on this Flickr page. It was also published in an undated (early Jan 2012) blog titled "Adult Separation Anxiety."

    Also, the photo was published in an Apr 19, 2012 blog titled "What's Your Deal-Breaker?" It was also published in an Apr 23, 2012 blog titled "When An Over-Spender Ruins Someone You Love." And it was published in an Apr 27, 2012 blog titled "“Solo lei vuole un figlio”… quando il desiderio di genitorialità non è condiviso," as well as an Apr 27, 2012 blog titled "ANGLO-ITALIAN Experience Their First Travel “Discussion” – FOLLOW UP." It was also published in a May 2, 2012 blog titled "Morar junto antes de casar aumenta chances de divórcio, aponta estudo," as well as a May 2, 2012 blog titled Τι είναι και τι δεν είναι σταυρός στην οικογένεια." It was also published in a May 16, 2012 blog titled "Why You Shouldn’t Have Sex with Your Roommate," as well as a May 25, 2012 blog titled "What is a MA declaration of homestead?" It was also published in a May 9, 2012 blog titled " Annulment vs. Legal Separation: 3 Differences You Should Know About." And it was published in a Jun 10, 2012 blog titled "How To Improve Your Relationships ." It was also published in a Jun 13, 2012 blog titled "15 Relationship Truths for Tough Times." And it was published in a Jun 22, 2012 blog titled "Episode 116 Should Parents Fight in Front of their Kids?," as well as a Jun 23, 2012 Gigazine blog titled "アイデアはどこからやって来るのか?という20項目" (which means, I think, "where do ideas come from?") It was also published in a Jun 22, 2012 blog titled "Reconnecting Depressed Partners Despite Fear and Shame," and a Jun 23, 2012 blog titled "Commitment-Phobic Employers Do Their Best to Mimic Your Ex-Boyfriend."

    Moving into 2013, the photo was published in an early Jan 2013 blog titled "Jesteś inny niż kiedyś." It was also published in a Jan 16, 2013 blog titled "Can a collection agency garnish your wages? in california?" It was also published in a Jan 28, 2013 blog titled "US-California: E ‘can temporarily change the withholding tax on wages for a period of 2 months?" And it was published in a Feb 14, 2013 blog titled "New Gender Studies minor has major plans for the future." It was also published in a Feb 20, 2013 blog titled "Time to Succumb." And it was published in a Mar 6, 2013 blog titled "Ten Steps to Healthy Fighting in a Relationship," as well as a Mar 8, 2013 blog titled "Para não brigar com as mulheres, maioria dos homens prefere mudar de opinião, diz pesquisa."

    tk_segal, lev.grinfeld, Royal.Queen, and 91 other people added this photo to their favorites.

    View 20 more comments

    1. Ed Yourdon 33 months ago | reply

      Thanks for letting me know -- yes, it's fine for you to use the photo in your blog posting.

      Sincerely,
      Ed Yourdon

    2. jasondquey 30 months ago | reply

      Hey Ed Yourdon!

      I am a blogger and I'd like to include this photo in my blog post (www.jasonquey.com/love-not-rude/). I have given you credit for the photo and have linked to the photo.

      If there are any issues with using the photo, please let me know and I will gladly take down the photo.

    3. Ed Yourdon 30 months ago | reply

      Jasondquey,

      As long as your blog is a non-profit/non-commercial publication, there is no problem at all using this photo; and also no charge, no royalty, no license fee, etc. I have taken a quick look at your blog post, and it looks fine to me.

      Thanks for checking,
      Ed

    4. sbabzy 27 months ago | reply

      Thanks for this lovely picture--I have used it as featured image here sbabzy.com/advice-for-dealing-with-an-ex-partner/

    5. Lasun3000 26 months ago | reply

      Hi Ed, thank you for a good picture, it's so real! I have used it in the article How to Treat a Man

    6. praveen333 25 months ago | reply

      Thanks Ed for sharing this picture..It captures the viewer's imagination, including mine...I have watched it many times, and am still not tired of it..

      I have used it here - www.stress-and-relaxation.com/conflict-resolution-in-rela...

      Great pic!

    7. Ed Yourdon 25 months ago | reply

      praveen333,

      Thanks for your kind words; I'm glad that you are still finding pleasure from looking at this photo.

      As you can tell from all of the comments, as well as the links to a few hundred places that have published it, it has turned out to be a very popular photo indeed. And, for me, that makes it even more interesting that it was a completely unplanned, extemporaneous "street shot" taken as I walked past the couple in Rome's Piazza del Popolo a few years ago. I'm sure these two people don't even know that their photo was taken ... and I'm glad that it has created so much pleasure without it being a "commercial" activity at all.

      Ed

    8. tarcea14 20 months ago | reply

      This is a super weird image about What is Wake Up Now

    9. anthonywatson1 19 months ago | reply

      Hi Ed, thanks for your pic. I like this picture. It gives a lot of room for the imagination of the emotion between the couple. I used it for one of my blog post about conflict in marriage. It fits perfectly.

    10. cgafvert 15 months ago | reply

      Thank you very much for the image. It was used in my blog post: "Who is the Mirror of Your Soul," which shows the greatest emotional conflicts in life are the ones that can teach you the most about yourself. The conflict is really inside us. The other person is just a mirror. radicalhumanity.com/mirror-of-your-soul/

    11. Beyond the Trail 12 months ago | reply

      I had the same question as an earlier commenter -- with the amazingly wide exposure of this photo -- seems like someone would recognize one or both of these people and come forward. Even after all this time --- would still be interesting to know who the couple is -- and -- what the discussion was about ....

    12. Ed Yourdon 12 months ago | reply

      I agree! Sadly, though, nobody has ever contacted me with more information about this couple. And though I have been going back to Piazza del Popolo twice a year ever since I took the picture (and will be doing so again next month), I've never seen them again.

      That's often the way things turn out with street photography... :(

    13. tmkordenbrock 11 months ago | reply

      I'm joining everyone else in using it in a post entitled: The Greatest Predictor of a Successful Marriage. You can find it at arenewedlife.com/blog on 5/22/14.

    14. h.murs 10 months ago | reply

      Hi Ed! We love how you capture this moment. Whether they are a couple who’s arguing or simply two friends who are having a deep conversation, this photo definitely tells a story. Thanks for making it available for use through the Creative Commons License. We used it in one of our blog posts. You can read it here www.ltcoptions.com/divorce-50-effects-retirement/.

      Holly Murs
      Online Content Director
      LTC Options

    15. benpatridge1 9 months ago | reply

      Awesome Picture. Thanks for allowing folks like us to use your photograph. I wrote a poem and your picture captured what I was looking for. You may read it here: magic8ball.hubpages.com/hub/Poem-Marriage-and-Second-Chances

    16. GraveUndertakings 8 months ago | reply

      Thank you for allowing me to use your image! I have given credit to the image owner Ed Yourdon under Flicker/CC License, here is the link back to the work where the image was used: jackiesaulmonramirez.com/2014/08/22/support-group-wisdom/

    17. tracycoley139 4 months ago | reply

      My wife and I are going through a hard time in our marriage. She says that I'm to hard on her, but she keeps spending a lot of my money. I want it to work, but I can't have her spending all of my money. cbhai.org/services.html

    18. Ed Yourdon 4 months ago | reply

      Tracy, I'm sorry to hear of your problems, and I hope everything gets resolved successfully.

      Ironically, this photo has been used in a large number of blogs and magazine articles that offer professional advice and guidance for situations like yours; you might want to skim through some of the notes and comments above (including the notes in which I've provided hyperlinks to most of those articles.

      Beyond that, I'm afraid that I cannot offer any assistance of my own. I've had my own successes and failures in marriage-land, so I do have some experience ... but it's almost certainly quite different from yours. And I have no expertise, no training, no published articles, or any other credible basis for discussing the details with you, or offering any suggestions to you or your wife.

      Sorry I can't be of more help -- and, meanwhile, best wishes to both of you.

      Sincerely,
      Ed Yourdon

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