• the Z should go here, between the A and the S
  • This is where the X should sit, not the Z - between the S and D
  • On most other UK keyboards this shift key is smaller so that the |\ key and itself fit into the same space this single key is taking up, meaning the Z can go where the |\ is... where it should be. Alternatively, the shift is this big and the |\ key is someone completely different
  • See the number '0' on this key? Look at ANY numberpad and you'll see the 0 is below the 1 and 2 not the 2 and 3
  • Brand new model. They must have got monkeys to do the QA. If anyone with even remote touch typing skills or basic memory of where to put fingers to find keys used this, they'd figure it out in about... oh... 2 seconds
  • Yes, this whole row is one key too far to the right. Unbelievable
  • D for Dell... I mean Dumb

Try touch typing on this

Newer Older

Looks normal, right? Look at your own keyboard... notice anything different? Okay, maybe you don't. But try actually typing on this and it all becomes far too apparent. The whole of the bottom row of letters (Z, X, C...) is one too far to the right. The Z should be below and between A and S, not S and D.

You're looking at a brand new Dell Vostro 1310, ordered the day after its released, and delivered on 30th April 2008 in the UK.

They keys are all there. Shift, \|, Z, X... its just that the left shift is too big, forcing everything over too far. The Z has to be between the A and S... look on ANY other keyboard and that's where it sits. This is not a US/UK layout issue, just a general monumental flaw.

UPDATE 1st May 2008 5pm: I phoned Dell for 20 minutes and they have confirmed that this affects all new Vostro 1310s in the UK. Oh dear!! They're hoping they can just replace the keyboards, though the guy on the phone said it was a 'motherboard' problem... I can't imagine that though.

UPDATE: 2nd May 2008 1:30pm - Kerry from Dell has informed me that Dell are working on a resolution for the issue. The official statement is as follows:
A limited number of Vostro 1310 and
1510 in Europe have been sent out with the wrong keyboard
layout. We are working diligently to offer a solution to
impacted customers and correct the error. Once a solution
is in place, we will be contacting impacted customers
directly to both apologise and instruct them on next steps.
We are still investigating this issue and will come back
with more detailed information as soon as possible. We have
made a mistake here and will be acting as quickly as
possible to find a satisfactory solution for our customers.

UPDATE 8th May: direct2dell.com/smallbusiness/archive/2008/05/08/europe-v...

UPDATE 9th May:
Okay, so they're sending out new keyboards. But it seems to me like a quick fix which is imperfect rather than applying the correct fix. Here's what I just posted to their blog:
[Y]ou've gone and kept the large left shift key and moved the \| key
to the right of the row, rather than making the left shift key
smaller... why?

You mention it appearing on more systems here... I will have to take
your word for that, but all 6 keyboards I can see in front of me right
now have a small left shift key and the \| key to the left of the z.
Why reinvent the wheel? If there's a good ergonomic reason for this
choice then that's great, but I can just sense that I'm going to fit
this new keyboard into my laptop and be (a lot less, but still a
little) frustrated with it.

Here's the logic for why the |\ should be on the left not the right:
* Look at where a touch typists fingers little fingers sit
* Note the distance the little fingers have to travel to reach a shift key
* when we have a small left shift, the 'A' is only half a regular
sized key away from the shift key. A nice small distance to travel
* again with the small left left key, the big left shift key is
only half a regular sized key from the colon/semi-colon on which the
right little finger sits.
* however, if you apply the layout you suggest, the left shift key
is under half the right shift key
* ... but the left shift key is now one and a half keys away from
the semi-colon. The right little finger has a long distance to travel,
making reaching for it take longer and be more of a pain.

So there's a very convincing argument to go for the standard UK layout
with small left shift and \| on the left. What's the convincing
counter argument that lead you to your chosen design?

I'm presuming that what you've applied here is the cost-effective
quick-fix and that there is no other argument for your choice. I can
completely understand this choice given the circumstances, but I don't
think its going to work for me I'm afraid.

['Ottovelo' commented I should just buy a Mac. I have removed his stupid Apple fanboy remark. Seriously... why not say but an Acer, Asus, Lenovo,, Samsung... and whilst we're on that, where's the delete key on a Mac? And why are " and @ in the wrong places on UK mac keyboards? Not as bad a design flaw as this, but utterly frustrating none the less.]

DEAR murilo A, dgua, korobeiniki, jorgepinto, cliph, mentor972, ramobjesus, raphy, zolinovat and every other MAC FANBOY out there,

Thank you sooooo much for your kind advice in telling me to 'get a mac'. Its so awfully sweet of you to be so kind and helpful.

Yes, I have considered buying a mac before. My wife has a mac which I bought her, my dad also has a mac which I bought him.

I hate my wife's mac. It has a backspace button but no delete button. It has one mouse button and forces me to press a key with the button rather than having a right mouse button. The @ and " are in the wrong places for UK users. You can't make windows fullscreen. Its slow. It crashes when playing DVDs. We have to cover it up at night as its glow 'throbs' and doesn't let me get any sleep.

Also, this laptop cost me £650. A similarly spec'd mac would have cost £949 (and that's still not as good spec as this).

Lots of love,


PS: I've deleted a lot of your helpful 'buy a mac' comments from this page. If you want to advertise, go do it in your own space, not mine

PPS: If you fancy trying to convert me you can of course send me a Mac for free. Just don't be surprised if a video of me smashing it to bits appears on the Internet soon after.


UPDATE 2nd May 11pm: For abyobe who's hacibg diffixulty ib ubderstabdibg just how ruvvish this laptop is with this dunv arse keyvoardm nayve tryibg to read this will help, I'n tryibg to spell this xorrextly ib that I'n puttibg ny fibgers where they bornally gom vut its hard for ne to realise whether or bot I'ce hit the xorrext keys as I xab varely read abythibg as I type it,

I'ce rexeiced ab enail fron Kelly at Dell to say she is sorry abd that its veibg dealt with etxm vut to ve hobest I'n bot too vothered right bow as I spebt all yesterday ibstallibg ZP ob it abyway as Cista xane preloaded, I wabted ZP origibally vut wheb selextibg that ob Dell's wevsite it said 'bot xonpativle with the ibtegrated wevxan' or sonethibg alobg those libes, Utter ruvvish - it ism works fibe ib ZP,

So tonorrow this laptop gets xobbexted up to ny three sxreeb setup abd ezterbal keyvoard abd nouse, Bo nore worries avout the keyvoard thebm abd I sinply await a replaxenebt or whatecer I guess,

Abywaym its veeb quite a fub day to hae ny 15 nibutes of fane, ny abger towards Dell has suvsidedm replaxed with ibxredulity that sone pepole really are stupid,,, too xlasses of people here:
- QA at Dell,,, why would you ecer release a keyvoard without typibg ob it first>
- Apple fabvoys,,, seriouslym ebgage your vraib vefore you speak

If abyobe's axtually read this whole thibg a nassice xobgratulatiobs to you!


mofoautolycus, evilmidori, freeforged, and 57 other people added this photo to their favorites.

View 20 more comments

  1. czmrdays 72 months ago | reply

    This thread just made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. "Lol, get a Mac" occurred at least once every 4 posts. The Macintrash is the epitome of fucktards, seriously, all you can do with a Mac is use all of it's preloaded software that you can get for free for windows on the internets, and watch it's fancy minimizing animation.


  2. crazytales562 72 months ago | reply

    czmrdays: Please attempt intelligent discussion instead of immature insults and flaming.

    Most other posters: The level of intelligence in this debate impresses me. But where's Linux? I run Xubuntu on an Averatec PC lappy. (:

  3. a_random_username 72 months ago | reply

    > So random_username, how do you like your Halo 3, on a PS3 or on a Wii?
    Oh right, its proprietary software that requires the purchase of Microsoft branded hardware for use, despite the fact that the XBOX 360 is basically a PC with a proprietary OS.

    Your analogies are flawed on many counts:

    1. A game is not an operating system. It is not required for basic proper operation of the hardware.

    2. While the Xbox uses a proprietary OS, Microsoft does not try to sell the Xbox OS as a seperate product. It only comes bundled with the Xbox, and any user with an Xbox is able to get updates to it for free. Essentially, the Xbox OS can be considered just another peice of Xbox hardware, because there is no way to acquire it seperately from the Xbox hardware. This is not the case with Mac OS.

    3. Consoles are a different beast than PC's. They typically utilize specialized/proprietary hardware (even the Xbox, which although very PC-like includes a custom CPU and non-standard GPU), along with specialized software development tools designed to help developers get every last bit of performance out of the hardware as possible. They also have very short lifespans and high R&D costs. This is markedly different than in the case of an Apple computer, as Apple essentially just uses the same off-the-shelf components that anyone can get, and then pulls some tricks in the software to try to lock things down. Comparing a console (even if it's an Xbox) directly to a PC is no more valid than comparing apples to oranges.

    4. Related to #3, the console industry has always been somewhat monopolistic in nature, due to the high R&D costs associated with each product generation, and the short lifespans of each product. That's why the cost of a game has been roughly $50 since back in the days of the NES. That doesn't make it okay, but the console industry is not the same thing as the PC industry, especially when we are talking about PC makers who use all standard components developed by various third-party companies, as in that case the PC maker is not footing all the R&D costs themselves, and has far less justification for using the same kinds of practices as a result.

    >Apple doesn't want you to do it because they don't want to be held responsible for any unpleasant experiences you experience do to circumstances beyond their control,

    So then maybe they should amend their licensing terms to say "while you may run this software on any system you desire, we only provide technical support when running on a genuine Apple PC". That would be many times more acceptable than their current practices.

    Of course, I don't expect them to do that, because the whole "we want to guarantee a quality user-experience when using our software" thing is too convenient of an excuse for continuing to keep their software locked to their hardware.

  4. Kerry_Bridge 72 months ago | reply

    Hi Jake / all - an update here from Dell as we start to reach out to customers with replacement keyboards.

    For some Vostro 1310 and 1510 customers in Europe we shipped keyboards with a non-standard layout. We apologize the error and for the inconvenience to affected customers. We are contacting all those customers and offering them a replacement keyboard at no cost.

    Further details, pictures of the replacement keyboard and Dell email addresses for those who do not want to wait to be contacted, can be found on our Direct2Dell Small Business blog. direct2dell.com/smallbusiness/archive/2008/05/08/europe-v...

  5. Shuzuluza 72 months ago | reply

    maybe you should get a mac.

  6. minnone 72 months ago | reply

    try that keyboard!
    Vinyl Mac keyboard

  7. mattorodinku 72 months ago | reply

    you should get a commodore 64... way better than mac.

  8. cbgrace71 72 months ago | reply

    Well, I love DELL. I worked there for a year and it is a great company. Also, I have a DELL at work and a DELL laptop at home.

    For all you MAC users out there...the local paper where I work are avid MAC users. I have a DELL since I'm not on the design end of the paper. Last weekend our offices were broken into and they stole all of our MAC machines and left my DELL.

    While you may think your computer is better than mine, at least mine won't get stolen in a burglary. :D

  9. asdf_bleh 72 months ago | reply

    Hace you xobsidered plaxibg "Dyno"-lavels ob top of your keys?

  10. austins 72 months ago | reply

    "Last weekend our offices were broken into and they stole all of our MAC machines and left my DELL. "

    Kind of sums DELL up in one sentence quite nicely. ;o)

  11. This One Has Rats 72 months ago | reply

    My laptop's keyboard is SORT OF like this... I guess it's what you would call a "Canadian standard". But at least the alphabetic keys are all where they ought to be.

    The way they squeezed that odd backslash in on my keyboard was by cutting the left shift key to half the proper size. And to tell you the truth, I never noticed, because I always use the right shift.

  12. This One Has Rats 72 months ago | reply

    "maybe you should get a mac"

    Kill yourself. Now.

  13. darrenforster99 69 months ago | reply

    Oops looks like someone seriously messed up at the factory with the size of the shift key, either that or they thought it was a new stylish way of making laptop keyboards. I seem to remember some of the very early laptops had very large shift keys, but not the other keys above them were similarly oversized to keep the standard character keys in the same place. The worst thing I find with laptops is that most of the keys are in a different position on every laptop, especially, the home, end and delete keys.

  14. julius2222 62 months ago | reply

    Jake, Jake, Jake,

    the whole reason why humans have evolved into a sentient species is because of our infinite adaptability - can't you just adapt to a new way of typing?!

    C'mon you're letting the human race down buddy ;)

  15. cliffstah 52 months ago | reply

    Lol at all the anti-mac pc zealots accusing the mac users of being zealots. It's like anti racism, anti sexism, yada yada. It's all been seen and done before, congratulations on your cliche. If the mac wasn't a threat, would you still care? What, no uprising against the Linux desktop? Too small a user base to pick on? Or is it just too inferior to be a threat?

    Personally, I'm taking the backlash as a compliment on my choice of superior hardware, software architecture and design shrouded in jealousy.

    Flame away ;-)

  16. hjg67f 31 months ago | reply

    Dell sucks get a toshiba

  17. Jadennhillier 7 months ago | reply

    learn to use function key noob.

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