Making the most of hereish and nowish

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    for a blog post, inspired by Tom Coates' talk at kiwifoo.

    Rev Dan Catt, Tom Coates, and 38 other people added this photo to their favorites.

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    1. Bopuc 63 months ago | reply

      snap! neb++

    2. warrenellis 63 months ago | reply

      I would render the past as an MRI of Roddy McDowall's prostate, and the future as a diagram of how one of Lady GaGa's wigs will dissolve due to UV exposure over the next twenty-one months.

      You'll get on that soon, I know.

    3. liminalists 63 months ago | reply

      I think we haven't had enough experience with the instantaneous forms of social communication to know if/how they're useful.

      FWIW, a number of the most useful communication tools are firmly rooted in the nowish; f2f / telephone / im, and don't work optimally if there are delays greater than about 500ms (allowing for non-verbal gestures, of course, which is why delay on the phone is more infuriating than delay in f2f conversation).

      There's something here, though - I suspect Tom's right, and value for social communication tools explodes "soon after the event" or "leading up to the event", and contracts from there.

      It's also very strongly media-dependent. Precise location data is past its best-by date about 5-10 minutes after publishing for moving subjects. City level location data is valuable until about two hours before you need to start the "exit city" procedures.

      Photos have one kind of value based on search that extends way back in time, but immediate conversation about stuff you're in the process of uploading is probably more interesting (as a social tool) in near-real-time than a day or week later. I see flickr photos sometime between a few minutes and twelve hours due to the slow aggregation of bloglines, but I'm obsessive, and my family usually takes a week to comment on photos. Because I'm not thinking about the photos a week after uploading, the conversational value has deteriorated.

      etc, etc. Looking forward to the blog post! :-)

    4. salimismail 63 months ago | reply

      Tom, consider that you might be over-analyzing this... see this diagram showing the news cycle: - it came from a Mary Meeker report and is very valid today if you consider Twitter a discovery mechanism.

      Also, check this diagram about how we thought about real time info at PubSub. We graphed the age of information vs how much of it we were able to collect.

      Happy to discuss, but the above diagram is missing an important element: context. If you have context for information, then low latency delivers extremely high value irrespective of whether it's social or not... 2D is often plenty good enough? : ))


    5. Bopuc 63 months ago | reply

      love those graphs. I remember going over them with Ethan Zuckerman and Rebecca MacKinnon, explaining them to Reuters on one of our visits to them (as team)

      Embarrassingly, I broke out into a "precogs! precoooogs!" chanting fit... hehehe

    6. michal migurski 63 months ago | reply

      Reminds me of this thing that Adam and I came up with Oakland crime stats:

      Something important to include in the illustration is density: the present is very small, but also very massy. The past and future are broader, but diffuse and hard to get a grip on.

    7. neb 63 months ago | reply

      taking into account @warrenellis' "prostate directive" and @migurski's astute observations about the diffuse nature of the notnow, perhaps the diagram should be refactored thusly:

      The Possibility Jelly lives on the hypersurface of the present. ;)

    8. Just_Tom 63 months ago | reply

      I love this thread!

      Speaking of which, perhaps the present is tightly spinning the fleece of the future into the yarn of the past.

      Which has a nice old-person ring to it... "spin us a yarn, grandpa?" and also the fleece of possibility sounds like a Greek myth :)

    9. Rev Dan Catt 63 months ago | reply

      Personally I think the top cone should be replaced with an interlocked bifurcating kline surface connected to the past which is still effecting the potential future chaos attractors. To better represent what's more likely to happen rather than all possibilities.

      Of course passing an opinion is easier than drawing it.

    10. michal migurski 63 months ago | reply

      Moleitau And The Fleece Of Possibility: Moleitau and the Moleinauts encounter Stalactus, the hypersurface jellyfish.

    11. Rev Dan Catt 63 months ago | reply

      PS. You missed an important bit, hope this helps ...


    12. neb 63 months ago | reply

      @rev_dan_catt who said anything about drawing? [although I admit our hero Moleitau is quite the sketch artist]. it's all about pinching diagrams and/or photos of Stalactus using the past-combing stinging tentacles of referential hypermediation™.

    13. liminalists 63 months ago | reply

      You people are insane. Also, I will point out that my earlier remarks make no sense whatsoever in this new context. Comment threads that don't account for the hypersurface of the present just end up with Schrödinger's cat having kittens on account of all this possibility jelly.

    14. Bopuc 63 months ago | reply

      how about this:
      this hypersurface of the present, or "now" if you will, is a separatrix between what we call "the past" and "the future", neither of which exist but as information (memories and projections).

      We all exist in this non-existent point! Together, man!

      /me takes a toke, passes it on... :)

    15. dan mogford 63 months ago | reply

      May I order 1 x "Possibility Jelly" T-shirt (Large). Thank you.

    16. michal migurski 63 months ago | reply

      In the Marvel universe, Moleitau is herald to Stalactus, Eater Of Time™.

    17. plugimi 63 months ago | reply

      Just briefly glanced over this thread but I knew that the Sonnabend Model of Obliscence would appear in all its glory!

    18. Bopuc 63 months ago | reply

      on further caffeinated armchair philosophomasizing...
      I don't think there can be any one model or visualisation, other than highly stylised ones (as the magnificent example above) as there are as many possibilities as there are events in a moment. If we maintain that there is only one "now" however, then that becomes the center and focal point, on which we can center overlaid views of all these moments and events, and we might end up with a giant blob...

      ... or sphere. And thus I am reminded of Borges, speaking of Pascal, who adapted an old saying to his own case (where he could not reconcile his christianity with his mathematics):
      "Nature is a frightful sphere, who's center is everywhere and perimeter, nowhere."

      /self throatpunch ;)

    19. GavinBell 63 months ago | reply

      One late to the party thought.
      We rarely want who-ish, except when ringing our parents at home.
      Generally we want a specific person or a service from a place.

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