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[Closed] Flickr censors my account

Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

The flickr team has dealt a good blow to Egyptian dissidents by censoring my account, which has the biggest online visual archive of dissent.
arabist.net/arabawy/2008/11/05/flickrblues/
I've been emailing the flickr Gods and no response, asking for a spokesperson they have the US or elsewhere who can take the calls of journalists and human rights activists who are writing about the story and give them a quote.
I'm left with no other choice but to conclude that Flickr is moving along the path of its mother company Yahoo! in colluding with repressive governments (like what happened in China), and I demand to know whether they also passed another private details of me and other dissidents to the Egyptian regime.
There will be a meeting this weekend that will include some of the leading local bloggers and human rights activists, and a boycott campaign against flickr is expected.
Posted at 4:16AM, 6 November 2008 PDT ( permalink )
heather (staff) edited this topic 66 months ago.

← prev 1 2
(1 to 100 of 178 replies in [Closed] Flickr censors my account)
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Walwyn says:

The problem is that you are not meant to upload stuff that you didn't take. Usually flickr deletes accounts without warning that contravene that particular guideline. That includes accounts where the uploader has permission, and even where the content is under a creative commons license.

So in effect that they haven't deleted your account is giving you a bit of leeway due to the political nature of the photos you've copied.

HTHs
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColleenM says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري

What is the 'censorship' that Flickr has done?

You still have an account. Your account is 'safe', and thus visible around the world.

It's not clear to me that Flickr has censored anything. You'll need to provide an explanation of what you see as censorship, because I'm not seeing it.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
ColleenM edited this topic 66 months ago.

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ericdege says:

..while I don't doubt the sincerity of the OP, it's been long established that breaking the rules for what is believed to be a higher purpose doesn't negate the responsibility and repercussions of breaking those rules ..it's not "censorship", it's the TOS and Community Guidelines

..is there an "answerable" Help Forum question here?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

heather says:

Your account is marked "safe", but flagged as "NIPSA" (not in public site areas) given that the majority of your account is not yours.

As per our Terms of Service and Community Guidelines, Flickr accounts are intended for members to share content that they themselves have taken:

"Flickr accounts are intended for personal use, for our members to share photos and video that they themselves have created."

www.flickr.com/guidelines.gne

The basic fundamentals of good Flickr citizenship are that you are the content's creator and that should that content be more "graphic" or "adult" in nature, that it's flagged appropriately out of respect for the greater community.

Just a quick note, I'm leaving for the airport shortly for a quick flight. Please do not see my lack of response to this topic as ignoring or avoiding the issue. I'll be back online this afternoon. Thanks for your patience.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Яick Harris says:

Why aren't you using your blog to publish your pictures? You protest against flickr there, why not publish your pictures to that blog?

If you really want to get your message out, publish pictures you created here on flickr and direct people to your blog in the picture comments.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

Hopefully at that meeting of "leading local bloggers", someone will bring up the issue of stealing content from the internet.

I think you've gotten a pass, basically.Your images are still public and visible to anyone on the internet (Flickr could have flagged them as Flickr-only, but they didn't) and they haven't been deleted (which is Flickr's standard response for stolen content, or even content that you have permission to use, but didn't take yourself. Flickr's rules are pretty specific that you are to ONLY upload images that you took yourself.)

If you want to publish anything you want, no matter where it came from, then you should do so on your own blog where you can make the rules. If you want to use Flickr, you have to follow Flickr's rules. Just like everyone else.

I like Rick's idea: use Flickr for content that you took yourself, so you can leverage Flickr's viewership, and then use a blog to publish content you've stolen. And then you can connect the two.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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(deaf mute) says:

It's not that flickr is censoring your stream, but that they are encouraging you to follow the guidelines. It's not the political meaning of your uploads that breaches the guidelines, but the fact that you apparently uploaded shots for which you don't own the copyright. If I were you, I'd move those particular shots to a different host and then delete them from your flickr stream, as you are in danger of having your account deleted. Any images that you *did* take should be flagged appropriately (the ones I looked at all looked "safe") and you should ask for a review once the rule-breaking shots have been removed completely.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"It's not clear to me that Flickr has censored anything. You'll need to provide an explanation of what you see as censorship, because I'm not seeing it."

When photos like the ones I mentioned in the blog posting are marked as "unsafe" (Photos of Irish and Palestinian murals) that's censorship.. These are photos that I took myself, and do not find a single violation of your biblical guidelines.
No explanation has been given to me up till now by the flickr team on why those murals were censored, and I need to know how many others have been marked that way, coz I'm always signed in when I check the photos in my account.
There are other personal pix that were also censored like this one?!
www.flickr.com/photos/elhamalawy/2995429693/
Why? That's me and an activist friend. This is not nude photography or porno. And this one of me in Derry was flagged and then un-flagged after I sent a complaint:
flickr.com/photos/elhamalawy/2995539989/
I need to know why?
The unflagging of some of them, came only after I emailed a complaint to the flickr team. But how many others are flagged now? I don't know and I wouldn't be given an answer.

"but flagged as "NIPSA" (not in public site areas) given that the majority of your account is not yours."
How many are taken by me, and how many are taken by others, I was wondering? Did you do a count?
Those others that you mentioned are activist photographers and dissidents who unfortunately were not IT savvy enough to start launching flickr accounts, let alone handling computers. I shared with them my account, so as to spread the images of the abuses we are facing in Egypt. And my flickr account has become the main source for visuals of the Egyptian labor strikes and democracy protests. These photographers and activists gave me the permission to publish them. And if you notice, (do a search for their names), they themselves launched flickr accounts after a while. I invested time and effort into introducing them to flickr and it took me hours and days to teach them how to upload pix, and handle their accounts. Some of them had their flickr accounts even paid for by me personally! So to take their photos down is extremely unfair, coz neither they nor I are gonna waste months of our times downloading the pix and re-uploading them again to their flickr accounts.
What you've done effectively is either random or deliberate targeting of a unknown number of photos on my photostream, which now cannot be viewed except for signed in flickr users, as well as contributing directly in obstructing the spread of the images of human rights abuses, police brutality, and activism-related themes to a wider audience.. This is called censorship!
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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olivepix says:

Since you're saying the photographers now do have their own accounts, it might be better if each of them uploads their ownimages, and you start a group to keep them all in one place.

As to specific examples, I think you will need to wait until Heather (or another Flickr staffer) gives you an answer. Probably through email and not this forum.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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~Cath G~ says:

When your account is NIPSA that applies to the whole account, not individual images.

The answer is extremely simple. Remove everything you have not taken yourself from your account then send a help by email request to have your account reviewed.

The rule if "it's not yours don't post it "is repeated several times in Community Guidelines and many accounts are deleted without warning for breaking this rule. You are not allowed to even repost with permission.

Perhaps you should consider yourself lucky not to be deleted already instead of complaining about censorship. To say that NIPSA-ing your account propagates Human Rights Abuses and Police Brutality is insult to those who are victims of such things
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

Flickr has stated that your account was set to "nipsa" not "unsafe". If I log out of Flickr, I can see 8226 of your images, while logged in I can see 8255. That means that only 25 or so images are set to something other than "safe" out of over 8000. Flickr is not in the habit of setting individual images to "unsafe", they just reset whole accounts.

So first off, you should make sure if you didn't accidentally set those images incorrectly yourself (the Flickr uploadr has a nasty habit of doing that randomly). Just click the "flag this photo" link and try to change it back to "safe". If it lets you, then Flickr didn't do it.

And if for some reason Flickr did, and you maintain that they are yours and do not contain nudity or violence (the usual reasons images have to be "restricted" on Flickr) then just email them and ask for a review of those images.

You can use the Organizr to view all images set to "moderate" or "restricted", and then re-set them to safe, if it's possible, all at once. That's also a good way to keep track to see if it keeps happening to you in the future. ( on the "ribbon" of photos along the bottom, click the "more options" link, and it will open a box that lets you view by content filters.)

Again, you're complaining about violating Flickr's rules, which you admit to doing. So as important as your message is to you, understand that Flickr still has to support this huge site and be fair to everyone.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"The answer is extremely simple. Remove everything you have not taken yourself from your account then send a help by email request to have your account reviewed."
No, I will NOT take down the strikes and demonstrations photos. These are already linked to and embedded on thousands of Egyptian and foreign blogs. That's the memory and the history of the movement now, and I will NOT take it down or disrupt the blog postings and work of other activists.

"Perhaps you should consider yourself lucky not to be deleted already instead of complaining about censorship. To say that NIPSA-ing your account propagates Human Rights Abuses and Police Brutality is insult to those who are victims of such things"
You are extremely rude and insulting actually to the victims, including myself, and to others we campaign on their behalf. Do a quick google search on my work on torture before you start ranting like that.

"Flickr has stated that your account was set to "nipsa" not "unsafe". If I log out of Flickr, I can see 8226 of your images, while logged in I can see 8255. That means that only 25 or so images are set to something other than "safe" out of over 8000. Flickr is not in the habit of setting individual images to "unsafe", they just reset whole accounts."
Censoring ONE photo or 25 is censoring, and there's no reason why the ones which were censored to be like that. Murals?!!! Why murals would be censored?!

"Again, you're complaining about violating Flickr's rules, which you admit to doing. So as important as your message is to you, understand that Flickr still has to support this huge site and be fair to everyone."

I do not only admit, I'm proud of it! I'm proud that I managed to draw an attention of a good number of photographers and journalists to start documenting dissent visually and start uploading it online. I'm proud that when there's an uprising, mass demonstrations, or strikes, activists present know they have to document it and send it to me to post rightaway and draw the attention of the world to it. My flickr has become a the main source of documenting Egyptian dissent visually and I will NEVER take these pix down. For a website that has a rhetoric about "social networks" and using technology for "social change", etc, it's shameful and unfair that some who literally risk their lives to get these visuals out be treated in the same rules as those uploads photos of their dogs or cats.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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olivepix says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري
If the said pictures of demonstrations and strikes are not taken by you, you will have to take them down. Or your account WILL be deleted.

Maybe having your own website, where you make the rules will work better for your purpose?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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zyrcster says:

No, I will NOT take down the strikes and demonstrations photos. These are already linked to and embedded on thousands of Egyptian and foreign blogs. That's the memory and the history of the movement now, and I will NOT take it down or disrupt the blog postings and work of other activists.

Your account is subject to the Community Guidelines:
flickr.com/guidelines.gne

If any of the people who ever did take those photos you have in your account were to file an NOI with Flickr, Flickr will have to -- by law -- remove those photos from your account.

It has nothing to do with the content and everything to do with the rules -- this is Flickr's house and you must play by Flickr's rules.

If you really don't want to be subjected to the rules, then get a webhost and host whatever you want there.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

I'm sorry if you refuse to listen to me or anyone here. I suggested that YOU are responsible for changing those 25 images to "unsafe", or at the very least, YOU can set them to "safe" right now, if you wish to. If you don't want to take steps to resolve your own problems, you aren't going to get anywhere.

And I'm sorry if your own self-importance blinds you to the requirements and needs of everyone else on this site. Your cause may be important, but it is no one's fault but your own that you chose to use a site without first reading the rules and requirements.

It is not fair to the millions of other Flickr users, many with causes and plans at least as important as yours, who follow the rules that they agreed to.

Why should you be allowed to break Flickr's rules, but no one else?

Follow the rules, or suffer the consequences. It's really about as simple as that.

"it's shameful and unfair that some who literally risk their lives to get these visuals out be treated in the same rules as those uploads photos of their dogs or cats. "

Sadly, there's no exceptions in the rules for "social uprising". Clearly, Flickr felt some sympathy for your cause, or else your account would simply be GONE by now. Perhaps some respect and maybe even gratitude is what's called for, not anger and bitterness at your own failing here. Call it what you want, but you're complaining about something that YOU did wrong, not Flickr. Perhaps if you had asked Flickr permission FIRST, you wouldn't be in this situation.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
The Searcher edited this topic 66 months ago.

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Civilized Explorer says:

No, I will NOT take down the strikes and demonstrations photos. These are already linked to and embedded on thousands of Egyptian and foreign blogs. That's the memory and the history of the movement now, and I will NOT take it down or disrupt the blog postings and work of other activists.

I sympathize with your position here. It's a shame you did not follow the guidelines, though. Flickr's application of its rules to your account is not censorship, I'm happy to say. You still are free to post and host the photos elsewhere if the photos result in some action being taken on your photostream.

I seriously suggest that you make plans for moving the memory and history of the movement to a location where you make your own rules instead of agreeing to follow someone else's. It may be that nothing happens to your account on flickr, but if you are posting history and memory, then may I suggest that you get a Web site that you control? You really need a back up in all events.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري
I have 10GB of space at spark-in-the-ashes.net if you require some hosting space. It won't be enough to hold 1000s of full size images but it is available should you need it.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Nora Shalaby says:

Many people on flickr have uploaded photos that they have not taken themselves, including me. Why is it that it is only arabawy who has been warned and had his account set to 'nipsa'. It does not make sense.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

Nora Shalaby Most that do so have their account deleted without warning.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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illinichick357 says:

If they are reported or get caught most accounts get deleted.

I would say he should show some gratitude that he has been warned rather than face immediate deletion.

IMHO I think the entire account should be deleted. It is a violation of the rules you agreed to when you signed up for the account. Period.

Edited to add: However, if he were willing to abide by the rules since he has been lucky enough to get a warning, then sure, his account should get to stay and his message continue to be spread. But his outright refusal to comply with the rules is a slap in the face for all the other Flickr users who do follow the rules or who have had their accounts deleted for the very same reason.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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davidkarvala says:

I'm not an expert on FlickR, but it seems that their policy is centred on the idea of the individual photographer. They seem to be excluding by definition the idea that people can work together and share material. Different activists in Egypt take photos, don't want to (can't?) get into the work of hanging stuff on FlickR, but want Arabawy to do so.

What is FlickR's problem with that? Isn't internet to do with sharing stuff? Or is it only sharing between individuals, with property rights firmly marked, whether the people involved want it or not?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
davidkarvala edited this topic 66 months ago.

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zyrcster says:

They seem to be excluding by definition the idea that people can work together and share material.

No, people can use groups to achieve joint projects. Set up Flickr accounts, set up a group devoted to the cause, and have members add to the group -- problem solved.

Flickr accounts are designed for one user and one user's photographs. There are a number of reasons for this -- problems with joint account holders, issues of copyright, etc.

Flickr is about sharing -- but you have to do it within the guidelines.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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T U R K A I R O says:

That is a very interesting exchange of perspectives in the era of "change"!

Basically what is proposed above is even worst than censoring. Based on the guidelines -and the principle of own made pictures, the few last contributions to that stream are proposing self-censorship through migration to another website. Remeber that incitation to self-censorship is the main method used by dictatorship to maintain statu quo and control civil society.
That is a deny of the right of expression. I suggest theabove contributors to moderate their point of view and make an effort of opening their conception of the respect of law.

Moreover these opinions are denying the basic social role of Flickr: Flickr became famous (and commercialy successful) as a social network and as a platform of exchange of pictures. All kind of pictures. Social documentary is an active branch of photography that largely contributed to the social advances of the last 50 years. This kind of pictures is making Flickr rich and dynamic. Censoring 3arabawy's pictures as you suggest might lead to make Flickr poor: just let soft porn, pseudo fashion pictures, you have a pop network without any projection in the future - exactly that kind of networks dictorships support!

Let's agree on the guidelines and the respect of rules:
but so far NONE of the 8255 of the pictures on 3arabawy's stream are insulting anyone. NONE of his picture is downloaded without authors' consent (all the contrary). So far many of pictures downloaded don't respect the rule of own made pictures.

Please, let support 3arabawy's necessary action and not lose time and creativity in absurd rules where open space and mind should be the only rule (respecting other's sensitivity). let's fight censorship... for CHANGE!
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
T U R K A I R O edited this topic 66 months ago.

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zyrcster says:

Um, Flickr is not a country, a state, or a government. It is a company - part of a corporation. This is not about censorship in any way at all.

This is about the guidelines for using Flickr. Even if the account holder has permission from the photographer for use -- Flickr's rules do not allow for an account holder to upload photos that they have not taken.

There is nothing stopping these other photographers from setting up their own Flickr account, uploading their photos, and then one of them creating a group here that they can all pool their photos into. Nothing is stopping them from doing this. In fact, a group is even more inclusive than one account, since many many many more photographers can then join in the cause and contribute to the group.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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T U R K A I R O says:

"It is a company - part of a corporation."

Do you mean: make profit not politics?
or as far as there is more users there is no limit (in the frame of the guidelines)?

What you should understand is that censorship starts when people accept it: when companies imposing some rules impose censorship.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
T U R K A I R O edited this topic 66 months ago.

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zyrcster says:

"Company/corporation" as in, they have to abide by certain laws, and I'm sure copyright is one of the many reasons why they require only your own photos in your account.

It's not that hard to set up a group, set up a number of Flickr accounts, and have those accounts add their own photos into the group.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

"They seem to be excluding by definition the idea that people can work together and share material. What is FlickR's problem with that?"

There are simply too many copyright/ownership issues involved with allowing such things to occur here. Flickr is still a relatively small company, and there are over THREE BILLION images on Flickr. They don't have the resources to deal with he-said/he-said back and forths about who had permission to use what. So they've chosen an absolute rule that only YOU can upload images that YOU take, so there will never be any gray area about ownership.

The rules and guidelines aren't being respected or followed. While this is a blow to 3arabawy's needs, it simply isn't fair to everyone else who follows and respects the rules, if anyone is allowed to circumvent them. It has nothing to do with "insulting" anyone. It has to do with a website, Flickr, that you, and every single user, agreed to the terms and conditions, when you signed up. We all did.

And those terms are very specific. There's no gray area at all. Take pictures, post pictures. DO NOT POST ANYTHING THAT YOU DID NOT TAKE YOURSELF.

If you wish for Flickr to change these rules, so that it is fair to EVERYONE, then that is fine, take it up with them here or in the FlickrIdeas group.

But how can you or anyone possibly think it is fair for one person to be allowed to violate the terms they agreed to, while the rest of us cannot?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

"What you should understand is that censorship starts when people accept it"

and what YOU should understand is that censorship starts when it actually happens. And this is not it.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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T U R K A I R O says:



dura lex sed lex?


It is what the bus company said to Rosa Parks.
Things have changed.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

The Searcher: I see your obsession with copyrights, but get it in your head.. These photographers and bloggers HAVE GIVEN ME THE PERMISSION to upload these pix.. And I mention them in the captions always.. I'm not gonna claim credit for something I did'nt do..
And it's not a "blow for 3arabawy's needs".. It's a blow for the human rights movement here, that your narrow-minded views cannot grasp the extent of the damage this move have inflicted,, and goes against everything "social networks" like flickr claim to represent or be...
Hey, doesn't flickr have this project of the Commons? Did those museums shoot those photos themselves.. And still I'm not told why Irish and Palestinian murals would be deemed "unsafe" to be seen by the public...
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

Turkairo.. Thanks for the solidarity..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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James Buck says:

zycster: "Um, Flickr is not a country, a state, or a government. It is a company - part of a corporation. This is not about censorship in any way at all."

Unfortunately, companies do censor. While I agree that the shared photos violate Flickr's user agreement, they have also, without explanation, censored several of 3arabawy's photos that depict pro-Palestinian art (murals).

Yahoo, Flickr's parent company, has also collaborated with governments to give passwords of activists in order that they be punished. Faceboook has recently shut down the account of Wael Abbas, an activist and colleague of 3arabawy. There are many examples of corporate censorship of activists, particularly in and related to Egypt, 3arabawy's home country.

There are two issues: the photos taken by others and the censorship. The first issue may fit under EULA complaints, but whether other users get away with this and 3arabawy was targeted for his politics cannot be resolved here. The second issue is literal censorship, for which Flickr did not provide him an explanation.

Yes, all of these are companies that can, for the most part, do as they wish. However, many social networking sites rise on the backs of activists who use them and then when they're big enough (and more corporate) turn around and slap those activists in the face. Twitter recently did this, although I understand in their case it was a financial decision.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

David:
"They seem to be excluding by definition the idea that people can work together and share material. "
I agree, I'm afraid that's Flickr attitude has turned out to be..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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zyrcster says:

Oh please. There is NO censorship happening. it's been explained more than once how to go about achieving what the OP wants -- use a group.

If it's too onerous to work within the guidelines, then go find a webhost to use.

That's what I did. My very best friend in the world was murdered, brutally, stabbed 25+ times in the chest, a hate crime. Instead of uploading every photo of her that I've obtained over the years rom al her friends to my Flickr account, I simply obtained rights to their photos, uploaded them all to my website, and they are all on display for everyone to see there. No problem. I don't stamp my feet about homophobic censorship here (because there is none!).

And if you look at the half million and counting groups on Flickr, you'll find all sorts of causes if you choose to continue using Flickr:

-- Get people to set up their own accounts
-- Set up a group
-- Have people add to the group

No censorship no problems.

If it's too impossible to get people to set up accounts, then use a webhost.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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zyrcster says:

James Buck OK, then take this bet of mine:

Get the photographers in question to set up Flickr accounts.
Create a group on Flickr.

Then tell me if Yahoo pulls the plug on the group. If they do, then we can talk about censorship. Until then, you're tilting at windmills.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

"but get it in your head.. These photographers and bloggers HAVE GIVEN ME THE PERMISSION to upload these pix"

And I'm trying to get it in YOUR head, that Flickr makes no exception for that. None. Which I just explained up there. They don't have the resources to deal with permissions and copyrights, so they absolutely don't allow ANYTHING except photos that YOU YOURSELF TOOK WITH A CAMERA.

So yes, they absolutely are excluding the idea that people can work together and share material. They are.

Flickr just may not be the tool you expected it to be. SInce they say so in the instructions, I'm at a loss as to why that's Flickr's fault or responsibility.

James: Which "literal censorship" are you referring to? He's got over 8000 images displayed and visible across all of Flickr and the internets. And so far, he doesn't appear to have made any effort to see if the few that are set to "unsafe" (which are still visible to all Flickr members, by the way) are actually HIS fault, and not Flickr's.

Flickr has by their rules, the right to delete his account. They have so far chosen not to, likely out of sensitivity for his politics (If it were porn, they'd just be gone.)

That sounds like the OPPOSITE of censorship to me.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري

There are a people that have been deleted for uploading Creative Commons licensed works, there are people that have been deleted for uploading photos that their mate had taken and for which their mate had asked them to do so.

As for the 'Commons' Flickr have a separate legal agreement with those institution s that are part of the Commons, that agreement is quite different from the one that you and I signed.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColleenM says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري "These photographers and bloggers HAVE GIVEN ME THE PERMISSION to upload these pix.."

You're still not allowed to host them on Flickr. The rules are very clear about this.

It would not surprise me if your account *does* get deleted. That's the usual result of violating the rules. You got a pass earlier, but blatant refusal to follow them, in spite of being told that you need to do so in order to have an account on Flickr, is probably not going to help your cause.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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T U R K A I R O says:

I'm repeating myself:

"dura lex sed lex?

It is what the bus company said to Rosa Parks.
Things have changed. "


There is many ways to trick out this rule: tomorrow we create a cooperative of photographers (it proved to be efficient in the past) and we upload the pictures without saying who is tha author. Can flickr make the difference between one photographer or a collective? Moreover all our pictures are under the Creative Commons: can be shared afterwards ... and inwards. Let's open our mind: copyright is a bottom line, not an absolute rule in that case.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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James Buck says:

edit: zyrcster:
I'm sorry about your friend.

Your responses haven't dealt with the photos of 3arabawy's that were inexplicably blocked, or the other activists who've had their accounts shut down, blocked, or handed over to governments, including by Flickr's parent company.

This does happen. Whether it's happening here is a matter of opinion. But you should at least take into account the facts of the case, including the censored photos, rather than just trumpet about your annoyance.

The problem that 3arabawy is talking about is that in a developing country, it's hard to get everyone who wants to post a photo do to so -- setting up a group doesn't give all those people who would be in it access to a computer and technical know-how to post the photos.

Hopefully we'll be able to work it out and share the photos in a way that Flickr accepts.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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James Buck says:

The Searcher: the literal censorship I'm referring to are the images Flickr marked as unsafe without explanation (scroll up, or I re-pasted below).

"When photos like the ones I mentioned in the blog posting are marked as "unsafe" (Photos of Irish and Palestinian murals) that's censorship.. These are photos that I took myself, and do not find a single violation of your biblical guidelines.
No explanation has been given to me up till now by the flickr team on why those murals were censored, and I need to know how many others have been marked that way, coz I'm always signed in when I check the photos in my account.
There are other personal pix that were also censored like this one?!
www.flickr.com/photos/elhamalawy/2995429693/
Why? That's me and an activist friend. This is not nude photography or porno. And this one of me in Derry was flagged and then un-flagged after I sent a complaint:
flickr.com/photos/elhamalawy/2995539989/"
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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zyrcster says:

Your responses haven't dealt with the photos of 3arabawy's that were inexplicably blocked, or the other activists who've had their accounts shut down, blocked, or handed over to governments, including by Flickr's parent company.

I'm not sure what you're talking about (the Chinese reporter thing?) but we're here on Flickr, and Flickr says, "Don't upload photos that you didn't take." This applies to everyone, no matter what their political beliefs!

I agree about the technical prowess thing -- which is why I say: Go get a webhost and set the thing up yourselves. Hell, I'll even donate my time to get the photos to display. Domain names are cheap and so is web hosting -- and the peace of mind that comes from having absolute control over your site.

Let's open our mind: copyright is a bottom line, not an absolute rule in that case.

Copyright is a fact of life, at least here in the US, which is where Flickr is based. If you want to go on the Copyright Jihad, then use the legal avenues available for changing the laws. Until then, it makes sense for Flickr to have a blanket rule regarding what you can post to your account.

Guys, I'm a bleeding liberal and sympathetic to activist causes. But there is no censorship happening here. There are rules which apply to everyone, no matter their race, nationality, religion, sex, sexual orientation, creeds, politics, or activist causes.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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zyrcster says:

James Buck Look, how do we even know that Flickr set that photo to unsafe? Heather says that the user's stream was not set to unsafe. Those of us who hang on the Forum know that many users accidentally set photos to moderate/restricted in upload.

Has the user tried to set that photo to safe?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

James: still awaiting what "facts" you're referring to. the OP still hasn't acknowedged if he's tried to fix the few images with the wrong content filters, or if his own account settings caused it. If he can change them on his own, then Flickr didn't do it (they'd be locked, otherwise). If he can't change them, then it is still up to Flickr to fix it.

And even then, considering anyone can see ALL of his images if they choose to right now, "censored" doesn't really fit here. There's clearly some sensitivity with his account and political intentions, but jumping to conclusions, without making an effort to simply resolve the problem, doesn't really help much.

But I agree; hopefully there is a way something can be worked out. Flickr has granted special permission for some specific groups to post shared images in the past. And for all we know, that isn't even really the issue here. It could be something else entirely, which Flickr will only discuss privately with the user, and never in a public forum.

So he may have to wait for Heather (staff) to finish her flight, before those answers can come.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Яick Harris says:

Bottom line, you want to spread your message to the large audience that flickr provides you, but you're not willing to follow their rules.

With all respect, you're wrong.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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James Buck says:

My understanding is that 3arabawy's photos were censored by flickr (the two of murals in question), not by himself or how he had set them.

In any case, he and his colleagues (of which I am one) have been censored by companies including Yahoo, Facebook and YouTube (by censored I mean content taken down, blocked or accounts closed with little or no explanation, or deemed 'unsafe' when they were controversial), which is why he's so upset about this. It's possible this is a technicality unrelated to censorship that we can overcome.

3arabawy has worked very long and hard to bring Egyptian social justice issues to light (believe me, it's an incredibly repressive torture state) and I understand his frustration at this setback, regardless of Flickr authorities' intent.

Thanks for your comments and thoughts about hosting photos elsewhere. It's a good idea. We are working to develop an archive for that purpose as well. My question then is, how do we incorporate the reach and find-ability of Flickr to an outside site? Does anyone have an idea on that?

Thanks.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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James Buck says:

Heading out for a bit -- thanks to all for input. Will check in later.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

James Buck The only thing we understand is that we do not know why those few photos were, to use your word, "censored". The Searcher has made some suggestions but as yet the OP has not indicated whether he has tried those suggestions.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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(deaf mute) says:

I don't have much to add to this debate other than to agree with other regular posters, but to re-iterate:

When you join flickr, you agree to the guidelines that say you won't upload photos you didn't take yourself. (I've broken that guideline a couple of times myself, when friends have taken photos of me with my camera, so I have some sympathy with you).

What's probably happened is that one of your political (or personal) opponents has gone through your stream looking for images that apparently break the guidelines, in order to cause you problems. *They* have flagged them. Flickr staff has marked your account as NIPSA to give you time to make alterations. Other users wouldn't have been given that chance. If you don't remove some of the images, your whole account may be deleted without further notice. By stating in this thread that you won't follow the rules, you are making it likely that staff *will* delete your account, since Flickr wants people to "play nice" in the community, not go round calling staff censors or abusers of human rights.
If anything, Flickr is extremely tolerant of images of a political nature, provided they are flagged correctly.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Farfahinne says:

rules rules rules and rules..... ít's the only word that i c repeated over and over again!!! fuck rules!! if the rules are not just... we change them!!
the searcher keep repeating "why u (arabawy) and not everyone elese" i don't think that i't's an idividual matter,,, it's a question of principal... I consider 3arabawy's account as a memory of the social and political dissent in Egypt... and flickr should be proud of that... whether he or other photographers took them...
and i have to say that without him i wouldn't have a flickr account myself... he used to tell me "we need to document the social and economic dissent and mobilization in Lebanon too" ... so instead of blaming him why he didn't obey this particular fucking silly rule... let's act together in order to change it...
yes companies do censorship... and yes not evryone have the possibility to have a flickr account (no time, nor money)!!
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

farfahinne ,,, it's a question of principal..

Good luck with that.

OTOH Create a free account per photog, transfer photos from joint account to free account, put photos in combined pool. If you act in unison you should be able to get it sorted in a short while. Then no one can mess with you all.

Heck the OP can even act as the librarian sticking them into the appropriate accounts.

Who's to know as there will be nothing in the separate accounts to draw attention.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

farfahinne Of course you can change the rules. Step 1 is to mount a successful hostile takeover of Yahoo. Then you can change the rules.

It would be much easier to adopt the suggestion made here of having the various photographers open their own accounts, and to add those photos to a group established for the purpose. You will then find out how accommodating to, and even protective of, political dissent flickr can be. To demand anything else is posturing and creating a fight when there is no need to. If you go about things in a way that does not offend the rules your, and 3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري's aims can be achieved.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Lú_ says:

I find it frustrating, as an anti-censorship activist in "real life,"* when the word gets misused. If Flickr were applying different rules to political content than to any other content, you might have some argument for some degree of censorship (albeit by a private organization, and when there are other comparable outlets available). But they aren't doing that. It's a universal rule on Flickr that no Flickr member may post material to their account for which the copyright belongs to someone else; permission does not enter into it.

As it is, there are indeed ways provided on the site to gather material together within the rules. Individual may post to their own accounts and pool images in a group. And anyone may, with permission, blog those photographs to an outside site.



*(I am a Director of -- and about to be Chair of -- the national organization that runs Canada's Freedom to Read Week)

.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Яick Harris says:

farfahinne

I see you maintain all rights reserved over your pictures. Can I claim them as mine? Can I post them to my account and state they are mine?

Break this rule and thousands are in here complaining that flickr didn't protect their license. What would you like flickr to do? There are plenty of options open to the OP.

[edit to say that Lu is absolutely right]
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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isafrancesca says:

Just out of curiousity, I took a look at the photostreams of a few of the people who've been most vehement in insisting there should be no exceptions to flickr's rules, ever.

The Searcher, for example, who wrote:
"They don't have the resources to deal with permissions and copyrights, so they absolutely don't allow ANYTHING except photos that YOU YOURSELF TOOK WITH A CAMERA."

Well, I couldn't help but notice The Searcher has a set on his front page titled "Mom before me." Now, unless The Searcher has some special powers I don't know about, I highly doubt that set meets his own standards.

And how about Rick, who has some family photos tagged 'me' that he clearly didn't take -- unless he mastered the art of remote shutter triggers at a prodigiously young age.

My point here isn't that the Searcher and Rick should take these pictures down, or that flickr users should be policing each other.

Far from it. I also have pictures like this in my stream, and I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of users do too.

I'm trying to point out that, clearly, people recognize that it's possible not to follow every single guideline to the letter, while still managing to contribute to the community here.

So maybe instead of ranting about how the RULES are the RULES, we could make an effort to think, constructively, about how to recognize times when it's appropriate to make exceptions.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Яick Harris says:

isa e The pictures your refer to are in the public domain.

Don't accuse me of hypocrisy unless you can prove it.

[edited to say, I have all of the originals to my family pictures. Handed down to me]
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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isafrancesca says:

Sorry, Rick, but no.

The pictures in question here are images 3arabawy has uploaded, with permission, from people he knows personally, who have given him the images to use for this specific purpose.

I fail to see any ethical difference between what 3arabawy has done and what you or I do when we upload family pictures -- except perhaps that 3arabawy's uploads are done with the intent of advancing a political cause.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

isa e Nice conspiracy theory. Uncomplicated by evidence.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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isafrancesca says:

Just to be clear, iansand, by pointing out the political nature of 3arabawy's postings, I intended to imply we should give more serious thought to blocking them then we should to, say, blocking my uploads of pictures of myself as an awkward adolescent. In 3arabawy's case, there's a strong argument for a greater public good that's served by making an exception to flickr's rules.

As far as conspiracy theories are concerned, though, (and as other posters have mentioned) there is a considerable precedent for 3arabawy's colleagues in Egypt being shut down by social media sites. Wael Abbas' Youtube case for example, which not only illustrates how this can happen, but also shows that sites like flickr and Youtube are free to make exceptions when they see fit. (And, in the case of Abbas' Youtube account, after they've endured sufficiently bad press and harsh enough rebuke from human rights groups.)

[I'm going to have to take off for a bit. I'll check back later.]
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

isa e They have given serious thought to the issue and made an exception to flickr's rules. The account is still there. Most accounts would have been deleted, without warning, in similar circumstances.

Dontcha hate it when your conspiracy theory is contradicted by facts?

As for what has happened to other sites in Egypt, unless the Egyptian government has made a takeover of Yahoo, the events are unlikely to be connected.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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(deaf mute) says:

Can I just point out that it would be perfectly right and proper for Flickr staff to mark certain pictures (or a whole stream) as NIPSA while they investigate?
As I said in an earlier reply, someone with a grudge may have flagged several of the photos in order to cause mischief. Heather will look into the matter, when she's stopped jetting around the world, and will be in direct contact with the uploader who thinks he has been "censored" unfairly.
While some good advice has been given here, we all know we're just speculating on what will happen. The OP hasn't helped his case by jumping to (possibly incorrect) conclusions, I might add.
If we all promoted the boycott of flickr over every little thing that made us scratch our heads, there'd be no one here at all.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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artem.liebenthal says:

What I can understand from my old good friends (3arabway and mind field solomon) that they using Flickr only to reach a high audience and direct them to their blogs.

3arabway has manged to get many "old" (age 30+) on Flickr, as they never have used it before or dont know how to use the site.

The 25 or more images are maybe from a friend who doesn't have a intenet connection or may affraid that he/she can land in jail (I believe the person is from Eqypt), so the person asked my friend to upload the images as it will be save and the whole world could see it and share on their blogs.

I hope the issue gets quickly sorted out.... Good luck
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

artem.liebenthal Your friend 3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري has had several suggestions. As he has not responded for a while I hope he is implementing them so that his crusade can continue. But he cannot expect long established rules to be ignored simply because he is a political activist.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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T U R K A I R O says:

Here is an interesting activist Flickr account:

www.flickr.com/people/barackobamadotcom/
PLease check it, there are loads of political pictures of demos, activist groups, etc. Unfortunately I have some doubts that there's only one author, namely the owner of the account.

I wonder if Flickr and the defenders of the copyright principles will dare to ask him to withdraw all the pictures that are not "from his and only his indivudual camera".

Is that ONE rule applying to everybody?

I guess that Flickr must even be proud to participate to such a succssful campaign. Is supporting a change we believe in in USA different from other countries in the World?

good luck friends
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

T U R K A I R O Nothing to say. Cue speeding analogy. Lots of people do it. You still have to pay the penalty if caught.

If the supporters devoted their energy to assisting the OP to comply with the guidelines instead of engaging in ridiculous point scoring the job would be done by now.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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T U R K A I R O says:

what is the OP?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

iansand instead of engaging in ridiculous point scoring

Just to take up on a couple of the points.

o - flickr normally turns a blind-eye to old family photos.
o - flickr normally turns a blind-eye to photos featuring the account holder, unless the account is commercial.

so for example if the photos on this page were in accounts belonging to the subjects there would be no problem.
www.flickr.com/photos/elhamalawy/page9/

similarly if they were in an account named "Hossam el-Hamala" there would be no problem.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
Walwyn edited this topic 66 months ago.

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

I still need to know why political murals depicting Irish struggle and a Palestinian veiled woman were flagged by flickr.. It's the team that censored them not me.. No explanation given... This shows deliberate targeting, out of political editorial line, not the biblical guidelines that some people above are ranting about...
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

Flickr and censorship:
norayounis.com/2008/11/04/308
thecameraandi.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/egyptian-governmen...
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

I still need to know why political murals depicting Irish struggle and a Palestinian veiled woman were flagged by flickr.

If you think that anyone at flickr is going to go through 8000+ photos and individually mark them up you're mistaken. They'll whack the entire account. Have you tried changing the flags on those photos back to safe?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

isa e: Well said points about the hypocrisy of some of those who r ranting about rules above...
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"If you think that anyone at flickr is going to go through 8000+ photos and individually mark them up you're mistaken. "
Oh, so how does their censorship (or "policing") works then? Don't they claim that most of the pix on my account are not taken by me? Does this mean they didn't do the count and go thru the pix and just took their decision to censor randomly? Thanks, you prove again how cynically this "social network" is being policed..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري Have you asked for clarification using Help By Email yet? Or does that sound too simple?

Have you considered that you may get a better response by engagement instead of confrontation?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
iansand edited this topic 66 months ago.

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

I did email them indeed, and they never replied with an explanation...
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري And Heather (who is staff) has said she is travelling, but would respond.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"Have you considered that you may get a better response by engagement instead of confrontation? "
I've sent them tons of emails, and they never replied back.. There was no discussion, hence I came and posted my complaint here to demand answers..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري Demand answers? Gosh.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"Heather (who is staff) has said she is travelling, but would respond. "
The problem already started days before I posted the complaint here on this forum.. and they've been ignoring my emails.. So it's not really about Miss Heather traveling or not..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

Yeah, gosh.. when you have the life works of dissidents and activists threatened to be deleted it's oh gosh indeed.. you are such a cynic
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري Perhaps you have been rude.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

More on flickr and censorship...
globalvoicesonline.org/2008/11/05/support-the-arabist/
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

Your words are full of cynicism and ridicule from the first post..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري Not really. I am quite good at persuading people when I choose to. A skjill you appear not to have.

If you want flickr's cooperation work with them. If you don't want that cooperation confront and insult. Basic human nature. You seem not to understand that.

Oh. Referring to innumerable blogs that take your position is not convincing. Why don't you devote your energy to working out how you can maintain your campaign using flickr within flickr's guidelines. If you stopped being a drama queen and got off your backside there have been several workable suggestions. Form a group. Walwyn has offered you space. <Zyrcster (or was it Lu) has offered expertise. Why not accept their generosity?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

Oh, so how does their censorship (or "policing") works then?

They establish that the case is proven than the account has unfiltered porn, photos not taken by the account holder, or whatever. Then they either delete the entire account, or mark it 'unsafe', NIPSA, until the account holder fixes whatever is wrong.

If what you say is that very few of the images aren't by you, then you won't have too much of a problem fixing the situation. What people are telling you is that you risk having the entire account zapped and all the outside links broken. If as you say is a small number of images how is your cause advanced if all the links get broke?

I've seen too many campaigns fail because the group insisted in having 100% of their demands met, and rejected a 90% offer. When you hear people say its the principle it normally means they've lost the plot.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )
Walwyn edited this topic 66 months ago.

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

The only drama queens we have here are those who are shouting about the "Guidelines" while they themselves are in violation of it, as isa e clearly exposed them. And believe me my time is even more precious than to waste it in reply to some of the comments posted here.. and I'd rather not be here in the first place.. But the flickr team has ignored my repeated requests for explanation of their actions and for censoring the murlas pix.. that's why I had to post about them here to get responses.

Re: other suggestions of uploading pix to blogs directly, that could be done... but then it negates the whole point of a "social network".. The beauty I used to think of flickr was that it allowed you to share these pix on a "social network" thus guaranteeing more exposure for whatever cause you are campaigning about
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

And by the way, Did Obama take these pix himself?
www.flickr.com/photos/barackobamadotcom/
Isn't Obama in violation of the guidelines? Why isn't his account deleted?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

it negates the whole point of a "social network".

Not if they go into a group pool. Besides you appear to be are dominate photog in the account so people are mostly coming to your stream to see your work. You can use that fact to direct other people to the other content, and exploit the social networking aspects that way.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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artem.liebenthal says:

Good mate...

Yes he did not take the picture himself... His picture should be get as well unsafe. The person need to ask the same like you for permission to upload this picture on Flickr.

Here we come back to the topic if everyone gets treated eqaul ....
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"Walwyn":
Yes, but what if people cannot upload the pix themselves and did not have flickr accounts? What happened was that the activists who were braving against police crackdowns in Cairo and elsewhere where documenting the events and sending them to me so as to upload them and get the world attention to it.. I'm sorry if they were not IT savvy enough for the flickr gods, but that's what happened.. I'm not going around collecting their pix off the net..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"artem.liebenthal":
Exactly, there are double standards and hypocrisy... If everyone is evangelical about the "guidelines" why are those not applied on Obama?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

Isn't Obama in violation of the guidelines? Why isn't his account deleted?

The guidelines are all about copyright and flickr's risk reduction vis-a-vis their safe harbour provisions.

Do you know what the relationship is between Obama and the photographer? It is quite possible that the photog is working as an employee of the Obama campaign and therefor Obama owns the copyright.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

Yes, but what if people cannot upload the pix themselves and did not have flickr accounts?

Nothing stops you from uploading the content yourself. Just don't mix it all up in the same account, upload them into different accounts. flickr only reacts to complaints they don't go looking. If there is no evidence of a syndicate account what is there to complain about?.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"The guidelines are all about copyright and flickr's risk reduction vis-a-vis their safe harbour provisions.

Do you know what the relationship is between Obama and the photographer? It is quite possible that the photog is working as an employee of the Obama campaign and therefor Obama owns the copyright."

Oh, so it's not anymore "YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE PIC YOURSELF" rule, eih? If the photographer is working for you, then that's fine... Alright, well that applies here, my photographer friends and fellow dissidents gave me the right to publish them, and in cases begged for these photos to be posted on my account.. so I should get the same treatment as Mr. Obama then
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

3arabawy - صَحـَـفي مِصـْـري Do you want to win against flickr, or against the Egyptian regime? If the latter, find a way to work with flickr. If the former you have lost your fight against the latter.

Is your fight for the Egyptian people or your ego?

I have nothing more to say.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Nora Shalaby says:

Walwyn: So has flickr then gone and done the research about Obama and his photographer and decided that its alright for Obama to post photos he hasnt taken? And is Flickr then making exceptions to the rules that everyone here is adamant about following and has been preaching about for hours. It is clear from this that there has been discrimination from Flickr against arabawys photos and that Flickr is practicing clear double standard in its dealings with its flickr members. I think people here need to start looking at the bigger picture and stop obessesing themselves with rules and regulations that are not followed by anyone anyways.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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artem.liebenthal says:

"as an employee of the Obama campaign and therefor Obama owns the copyright. " - Walwyn

And my friend works as volunteer for his friends. As friends dont pay each other as they will be wrong friends.

So I guess we running now in circle!?
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

iansand: Do you work for flickr by the way? coz if not, u should indeed seek a job at their PR department..
"I have nothing more to say. "
Thank you..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

Oh, so it's not anymore "YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE PIC YOURSELF" rule

Its a guideline that if you follow it you won't get into trouble, but its not an absolute rule, as they turn a blind eye in certain circumstances. Most notably for old family photos, and photos featuring yourself. Also there are some cases of obvious fair-use.

You are experiencing the flexibility in the rule in that they haven't already deleted your account.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

And my friend works as volunteer for his friends.

That is not the same. Anyone can say 'This is a photo that X has given me permission to post" doesn't make it true.
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

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Hossam el-Hamalawy حسام الحملاوي says:

"Its a guideline that if you follow it you won't get into trouble, but its not an absolute rule, as they turn a blind eye in certain circumstances. Most notably for old family photos, and photos featuring yourself. Also there are some cases of obvious fair-use."
Good to hear.. So we started by "you either have to take the pic yourself, or else you get deleted" and now we learn "it is not an absolute rule"... So our pix are just under the mercy of the mood and personal judgement of the flickr gods not some iron-like guidelines.. Very re-assuring..
Posted 66 months ago. ( permalink )

This thread has been closed by Flickr Staff.

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