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Counting to 1000: Lapsing Pro Account, Creative Commons and Photo Privacy

striatic says:

Let's say I have all my 3000+ photos CC Licensed and Public, with the exception of one private photo that is also technically CC Licensed.

What happens to the single private photo when my pro account lapses?
Posted at 10:06AM, 15 March 2019 PDT ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

striatic:

I have also asked that question. No reply yet.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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mag3737 says:

striatic:

What happens to the single private photo when my pro account lapses?

Nothing, for a while, because there's a grace period. ;-)

Seriously, though, I have wondered this point, as well as other scenarios that seem ambiguous or undefined in the information we've been given to date.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

striatic:

one private photo that is also technically CC Licensed.


Kinda makes little sense to CC a private photo unless I'm missing something. My question was more for public photos not CC licensed. IE: say I have 1500 photos and 900 are CC and public while the other 600 are public, but not CC? I think it is kinda the same issue.. From what I think I would lose 500 of those photos not CC, but really do not know.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

More to the point. Can you have unlimited CC license public photos and none of them count towards your 1000 count limit or not? Pretty sure they will. Just kinda makes sense.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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micael18 says:

striatic:

striatic:

You DO have that one, single private picture elswhere? Don't you? External harddisk and USB-stick, or another online-drive, or two?
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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micael18 says:

A new forum-error here? Double-quote?
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

micael18:

LOL! He has been a power Flickr user sense Feb of 2004. Thanks for the smiles. Not many know this. =o)
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

Flickr was launched on February 10, 2004 by Ludicorp, a Vancouver-based company founded by Stewart Butterfield and Caterina Fake.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

micael18:

A new forum-error here? Double-quote?


That happens. Just a glitch..
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

micael18:

You DO have that one, single private picture elswhere? Don't you? External harddisk and USB-stick, or another online-drive, or two?

How about assuming that it is a photo with an extremely early photo_id, extremely old comments that I value, but that i'd like to leave at "friends and family" level privacy?
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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micael18 says:

striatic:

Ok... I only asked because MANY people - if not the most of them ONLY stores their pictures on Flickr - and not in other places.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito says:

It was a harmless and sensible question/advice.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

micael18:

That is one of the biggest issues with free accounts. I realize many members do not even have computers. I'm not blaming them it is just a problem. Flickr, or any other site on the webs, could fold up shop and then those people are out. I keep 3 different backups of my photos. If my house were to burn to the ground then I'm out 2 of those. Long ago I had all my print photos and negatives in a storage unit as I was working on moving to a new location. Guess what happened? The storage unit was started on fire by arson and I lost all my early work. This was late 90's. I will never forget. Over 100K photos and many other memories gone. They were just material items, but I miss them everyday.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

micael18:

I did a final download of my Flickr archive a couple weeks ago and put it on two drives.

My pro account lapses tomorrow [for the first time in 15 years] and grace period or no, I am curious about what will happen to the very few photos I'd prefer to retain some level of privacy on.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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mcnod says:

striatic:

My pro account lapses tomorrow [for the first time in 15 years] and grace period or no

Did you take advantage of the 3 months free Pro that was given to any member that signed up for it in Dec 2012? If yes, and if you never let your subscription lapse, then you should have three more months of Pro.

www.flickr.com/help/forum/72157632307706886/
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

mcnod:

I must not have, because I don’t. If it was gift code based, I vaguely recall passing the gift along to someone else.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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mcnod says:

striatic:

Or maybe not anyway. I should have reviewed the thread first:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157632307706886/#reply7...

No, it wasn't something you could apply or give to another account.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

As I recall it was complicate you had to not renew the account and then renew it later. It was too much hassle for a few $.Though I'm sure it helped some.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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mcnod says:

Well, I'm sorry if I got anyone's hopes up. Looks like it was automatically applied to the next billing period.

(mcnod tip-toes out of the room, head in hand)
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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GothPhil says:

striatic:

My reading of the official post on this is that photos have to be CC and public to be safe. And no, CC doesn't make any sense if a photo is not public, as it is not 'sharable'.

Based on my own account, my 2300 CC/public images do indeed count towards the 1000 limit, as I cannot upload anymore (yes, I also have 1 private photo, which I expect to be deleted eventually). Fair enough, I chose not to go Pro, but it doesn't help with the official line giving the impression that unlimited public/CC uploads will be possible. Maybe only if you haven't yet reached the limit and been blocked, but that would also be confusing.

Not entirely sure that the mechanics of the amended CC policy have been fully implemented (or worked out) yet...
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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mag3737 says:

GothPhil:

Not entirely sure that the mechanics of the amended CC policy have been fully implemented (or worked out) yet...

I wonder if that's the reason that you can't upload -- maybe there's work involved in re-enabling uploading for qualified accounts such as yours sounds to be.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Midnight-Blue says:

I am confused as to why Flickr has not stopped all free accounts from uploading new photos. I just came across a free account that says it has 3,194 photos but has new uploads today. And I have seen several others as well. It makes me wonder how there can be some who say they can't upload more photos and yet others are able to. It appears as if the 1,000 limit is being enforced for some but not others.

As for Flickr not counting CC licensed images towards the 1,000 limit, I don't mind if they don't or they do. I just want to know which way it is. Because having photography and tech sites announcing that they have said they won't count them, but yet people say they are unable to make it work, makes me wonder which it is. If it is just a matter of them still having to change the system, they could at least let us know they are working on it and explain how this change affects free accounts.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn says:

GothPhil:

And no, CC doesn't make any sense if a photo is not public, as it is not 'sharable'.


Why does it make no sense? It can be shareable among those 'friend and family' contacts. It could be that someone make the image private for a short while and then makes them public at a later stage. It could be that the images are made private to stop crawling by search engines (in lieu of being able to blacklist Google), or from the images being scraped via by tags. It maybe that the images are made private here and then blogged with the CC license elsewhere the reason being to restrict the availability of the original size. Plus 1001 other reason.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

Midnight-Blue: Sounds like they're doing what they do with all new systems, and rolling it out slowly a few thousand accounts at a time. See the new login thread for example, they aren't letting everyone do the new login yet, they're rolling it out to chunks of users at a time, to make sure it's stable and functional.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

"My reading of the official post on this is that photos have to be CC and public to be safe. And no, CC doesn't make any sense if a photo is not public, as it is not 'sharable'."

I know that. That's why I said "technically CC".

At any rate my question went unanswered and I was going to shut down my auto-renew based on an answer .. but no answer means I auto-renewed so now I not only need to figure out what photos get nuked in order to make an informed decision, but also how to get refunded the money that flickr just took from me.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

I created an official Flickr Help message query to get an actual answer to this question, as no one seems to know what the Flickr CC implementation is.

Hopefully I will get an answer that I can pass along. Hopefully I will also [eventually] get a refund.

Frankly I'm astonished that "nobody knows" the answer to what I thought was a fairly straightforward billing/account related question.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito says:

striatic:


Frankly I'm astonished that "nobody knows" the answer to what I thought was a fairly straightforward billing/account related question.

Are you referring to your fellow members?

If so: maybe the rest of us simply don't know, because, like you, we find Flickr's wording confusing.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito:

Yes, I'm astonished that the policy is sufficiently unclear that no one appears to understand what it is.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito says:

striatic:

Yes, I'm astonished that the policy is sufficiently unclear that no one appears to understand what it is

Well, that makes sense.

ED. I *thought* I understood, at first read. But then I started to doubt. And by now it's as clear as mud.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

That seems to have been the case with many questions over the last 5 + years..
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Pacdog says:

From the blog post:

We’ve supported Creative Commons for as long as we’ve been around and we’re thrilled to do so for newly-uploaded content as well.

What does that mean?
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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GothPhil says:

Pacdog:

What does that mean?

Quite.

Newly uploaded by who? Pro's only? But that wouldn't make sense as Pro accounts are not restricted.

So must be free accounts, but which ones? Not mine, yet...
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito says:

GothPhil:

Newly uploaded by who? Pro's only? But that wouldn't make sense as Pro accounts are not restricted.

Fellow member had a go here:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157690254850423/#reply7...

Could be.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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GothPhil says:

striatic:

At any rate my question went unanswered

Well, the answer is more or less implicit in the text of the official post on the matter, ...
In this spirit, today we’re going further and now protecting all public, freely licensed images on Flickr, regardless of the date they were uploaded.
(my underlining)

One might therefore deduce that photos not meeting the criteria specified (in free accounts) will still be subject to The Big Purge. Eventually.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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GothPhil says:

MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito:

Oh yes, parallel discussions. My bad. Must keep up!
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

GothPhil:

Well, the answer is more or less implicit in the text of the official post on the matter,

No it isn't.

GothPhil:
One might therefore deduce that photos not meeting the criteria specified (in free accounts) will still be subject to The Big Purge. Eventually.

Yes. Obviously photos not meeting the criteria would be subject to the purge but not all non-CC photos on flickr are going to be deleted. Many accounts will have up to 1000 of these photos that won't be deleted, because there is another form of deletion protection involved here - the 1000 photo allotment for free accounts.

The topic is called "Counting to 1000", as in, do CC licensed images count toward the 1000 exempted images, or not? If an account has more than 1000 CC photos, and some non CC or non public photos, which of those count toward the limit?

There's no need to underline "freely licensed images". We understand that non freely licensed are not protected .. the question is at what point, relative to the 1000 image limit do they begin to not be protected. Do we get 1000 deletion exempt images of types that would normally be deleted, and then however many CC images we want on top of that? Or do CC licensed images still count toward the limit of universally deletion exempted images, despite being deletion exempt for a different reason?
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

This starts to introduce weird scenarios like, let's say I keep my 1000 most recent photos private, or under full copyright .. whatever .. and then fully public CC on the previous 2000+.

This would be an account with 1000 private images, or non CC images, whatever combination I want, and then 2000+ protected public CC photos on top of that.

But, let's say I have an account with 2000+ public, CC images .. and one single private image. This time though, that single private image was uploaded first, before everything else. So it gets deleted because it isn't in the 1000 most recent, protected images.

This method of determining deletion exemption seems a bit silly to me. An account can have up to 1000 private images, but only so long as they are the most recent images? A different account can be entirely public, CC, with the exception of a single private image, but that private photo gets deleted solely by the virtue of having been uploaded first?

One account gets 1000 private images and the other gets 0, entirely based on upload order. The way that 1000 is counted to makes a big difference there.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito says:

striatic:

Perhaps you missed my link in my previous answer to an explanation in the other thread:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157690254850423/#reply7...
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

striatic: Perhaps a better short-term solution would have been to switch to a monthly subscription. I'm not sure Flickr will feel obligated to offer a refund when a monthly subscription was available.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

MabelAmber️®***Pluto5339*** incognito:

I saw that. Beyond possessing a needlessly antagonistic attitude in a comment that includes the words "wanked on", it doesn't add any useful information.

If a photostream can have either hundreds of private photos, or 0 private photos, depending entirely on what date those photos were uploaded, that's something that needs to be clarified.

The Searcher:

It'd be pretty poor customer service if they didn't, given the lack of official clarity on how this is supposed to work and the fact that getting it wrong on the member's part results in unrecoverable losses.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

The Searcher:

To be honest I didn't know a monthly subscription was available. The settings page said it would auto renew so not knowing what would happen to my photos, I just let it do that.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic says:

Flickr help got back to me and gave me a very welcome and very clear answer:

"- It doesn't matter whether the CC content is private or public - none of it will be deleted.
- All CC content is safe from deletion, no matter if you are Pro, free, private or public.
- If you are a Free account and have 5,000 CC photos, you won't be able to upload any further content unless you purchase a Pro account.
- If you are a free account with 1,000 photos with a non-CC license, you won't be able to upload any further content even if it's CC unless you purchase Pro."

So in fact all photos, CC or no, are counted toward the 1000 photo limit, but very importantly in addition to that - Flickr will not be deleting any private photos so long as they are licensed CC.

We also won't be able to upload any more photos if we have 1000 or more, no matter how they are licensed.

This makes everything clear to me, other than how non CC images are counted/deleted if they are mixed in with CC photos in an account with over 1000 photos, but this doesn't apply to my situation so I don't really need to know.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Rex Block says:

striatic:

So essentially, this is being done to preserve existing content for free users who are already over the 1000 image allotment. Going forward, you will not be able to upload an image past 1000.

I don't think it matters if CC and non-CC images are mixed, or if they are public, family, or private. It's still a hard limit of 1000 and you can't upload beyond that.

What is does do is preserve existing content from the Big Purge if you assign a CC license to it.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Midnight-Blue says:

Well at least we now know the answer. Maybe. Now the question then becomes why did the creative commons blog and tech sites get it wrong?

The Creative Commons blog post says as its first sentence:
"I’m happy to share Flickr’s announcement today that all CC-licensed and public domain images on the platform will be protected and exempted from upload limits." It says "exempted from upload limits."

Later on, it then says:
"We continued to work with Flickr, and a week later, they announced that CC-licensed images that had already been shared on the platform would be exempted from upload limits." That says only already shared images are exempted.

Then further down it says:
"Choosing to allow all CC-licensed and public domain works to be uploaded and shared without restrictions or limits comes at a real financial cost to Flickr, which is paid in part by their Pro users." That says "uploaded and shared without restrictions or limits." They are not being explicitly consistent with their words.

They should make it clear in that blog post that whenever they refer to "exempted from limits" that it is only for already uploaded content and not future uploads, if that is the case. Hence, my and others confusion stems from people not being clear with their words.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Midnight-Blue says:

Scratch that about Creative Commons getting it wrong. I think they just didn't use words that consistently matched up. However, there were several photography/tech sites that explicitly said that CC licensed images would not count towards the limit, including the one that Andrew linked to in the official topic, where they reference him. They explicity state:

"Images that are labeled with Creative Commons, even if uploaded today, will no longer count toward the restrictions on free accounts. The adjustment applies to Creative Commons as well as any freely licensed content, including images allowing use with attribution. All Rights Reserved images count towards the 1,000-image cap."
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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Nionyn_ says:

Midnight-Blue:

Now the question then becomes why did the creative commons blog and tech sites get it wrong?

Same as with all reporting, whether online or in print.
Never believe a story. Always go to the source.
Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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GothPhil says:

Yeah, don't want to say that it seems like they are making this up on the hoof, but there is definitely a sense of an evolving policy.

Great to get clarification that all CC content is safe, although of course that doesn't help those with a 1000+ gallery of copyrighted content, who are still left with a tough decision to take.

Obviously the statement in the official post that all CC content uploaded before, and in the future, would be safe, was made before the implications of that had been fully worked through (as in a free account being effectively unlimited if all content is CC), and they've had to back-pedal on that.

I wouldn't worry too much about how they'll distinguish between what can, and cannot be deleted in an over-sized free account, it's quite a simple algorithm, programmatically -

while image count > 1000 and non-cc photo count > 0
- delete oldest non-cc photo by upload date
repeat

Posted 3 months ago. ( permalink )

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