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AnalogExif suddenly only shows camera type on Photo page - no lens, no other Exif data (RESOLVED)

Patrick Copley says:

Since about a week ago, scanned film photos uploaded with tags from the AnalogExif app only show the camera type on the Photo page - no lens.

Also, if you click on the Exif link, the tags populated by AnalogExif no longer appear - just a generic and short list of Exif data.

Are these two issues going to be fixed, or should I seek another app to tag my film photos properly with Exif data? Any recommendations from anyone?
Posted at 7:33AM, 13 April 2019 PST ( permalink )
Patrick Copley edited this topic 7 months ago.

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kmacgray says:

Patrick Copley:

Are these two issues going to be fixed

You need to ask whomever created that tool to fix it. It's not something created by Flickr and obviously Flickr cannot fix apps they didn't write.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

Patrick Copley: It's been longer than a week. I've gone back several months in your photos and they all (that I saw) have the limited EXIF (including in the original image file itself, which I downloaded and checked with several different image editing tools). Do you have a recent example of a photo that you used the same tools for that has the EXIF info you expect (post link here).

The usual cause is some change in your workflow, either a tool was updated or a setting changed on the tool. You can check this by downloading one of your images where you expect to see full EXIF and see if it's gone or still there. Flickr doesn't alter or change the embedded data in your original images, so if the EXIF is missing it happened prior to uploading.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

The Searcher:

Hi there and thanks for answering! All of that EXIF on the older photos was there until about a week ago. I made no changes, no new uploads, etc.

Something similar to this happened in January, affecting everyone's EXIF, and it was eventually restored. Between that, and the fact that I made no changes to the older photos, is why I was thinking (hoping) that this is an issue on Flickr's side, and not mine or the AnalogExif app developers.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

Patrick Copley:

Hi there and thanks for answering! All of that EXIF on the older photos was there until about a week ago. I made no changes, no new uploads, etc.


There is information missing in the exif, even when shooting digital. My lens model has been missing since about April 4, and I'm not the only one who reported that. It's also missing from pictures that used to have this info and that I posted long ago on my stream.

It's a Flickr problem, There have been several recent threads about this problem on the HF, but staff decided to show up on a very short thread and mentioned that fixing this problem is not their priority right now! I decided that I will not make it a priority to renew pro!!!
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

Well there's two different issues: Flickr not displaying the EXIF data on the photo pages, and the EXIF data not being IN the photo itself.

At least on the photos I checked (the originals), there is no EXIF for Flickr to read.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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gecko47 says:

Detailed EXIF information, lens model and settings for the image (focal length, shutter speed etc.) have been missing for weeks.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

gecko47: Do you have an example (an example with an original file version that can be checked)? I've just looked at several photos with very detailed EXIF data. Example:

www.flickr.com/photos/125334699@N04/32659909907/

edit: actually I checked several of your original images, and there's no detailed EXIF data in them.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )
The Searcher edited this topic 8 months ago.

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Patrick Copley says:

The Searcher:

It WAS there though.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

ColetteSimonds:

Thank you! I was starting to think I was losing my mind. Hopefully they will fix this soon.

Do you have a link to the thread where Flickr staff say this is not a priority to fix right now?
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

Patrick Copley: If it was in your original images then that's a serious bug that I haven't seen brought up or acknowledged anywhere. Because that means Flickr is overwriting and altering our original images, which up till now has never been done.

Again, your original images do not have the data, I checked.. To confirm it's something Flickr is doing, I highly recommend experimenting with an image. View the EXIF on your own tools to confirm it's all there before upload. Then upload it, and see if it fails to display. if it does, then DOWNLOAD the original image and see if your EXIF has been stripped away.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

The Searcher:

Well there's two different issues: Flickr not displaying the EXIF data on the photo pages, and the EXIF data not being IN the photo itself.


The exif has always displayed data on my images. So it's Flickr. There is no reason why images that I posted with full exif in the past are missing the lens info. Why did this vanish all of the sudden. Plus for more recently uploaded images I don't even get the camera name.

It's Flickr problem, and that's that.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

Patrick Copley:

Here, I found it:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157690836986963/
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

ColetteSimonds: You may be right, but without investigating you're offering no evidence to support your theory. You do a lot of image replacing, reducing your images sizes, etc. Could you have maybe stomped on the exif during one of those bouts of shrinking?

That link you posted from staff says they're not displaying some EXIF fields from the photo data. But as I said, that's a DIFFERENT issue than not having the data IN the image in the first place.

So some of you may be experiencing the one issue, and others the other issue. The examples I've looked at above, none of those images have EXIF data in the images. Which means (since staff hasn't said they're altering original images) that something is happening to the EXIF data in transit, before the images get here.

And again, this is something you can test yourself, if you're actually interested in figuring out the problem. If it's a problem with displaying EXIF data, then all you have to do is download one of your images and check to see if the data is still there. If it is, then that IS a Flickr issue to fix.

But if it's an issue with the images not HAVING the EXIF data in the first place, that's likely something you'll have to fix yourself on your end. BUT, for the sake of proper investigation, you can still explore if Flickr is somehow altering original images.

1. Check a photo on your computer and make sure it has all of the EXIF data on it.
2. Upload the photo to Flickr.
3. If the EXIF doesn't display on the Photo page, go DOWNLOAD that photo back to your computer.
4. Check the new copy of your original image, the one from Flickr, and see if the EXIF is there, or has been removed.

That will give you answers, beyond the uninformed speculation you're currently enjoying.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

Also I tried this myself, but my EXIF data is getting here just fine, and displaying on the photo page just fine. So it's not happening to me at least.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

From Flickr staff in the thread that Colette linked:


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Flickr Staff

Norby says:
dpsager:

We're aware that certain fields are not making it through (don't worry, we still have all the information) with the new system we're using to serve photos and exif metadata, but fixing it may take a back seat to higher-priority migration work.
Posted 3 days ago. ( permalink | reply )
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

The Searcher:

Also, I do see what you're saying - if I download the Original of this photo of mine from a few months ago:

www.flickr.com/photos/filsdepersonne/44442650964

all the EXIF has been stripped away when I look at the file on my laptop. However, the Flick Photo page is still showing Camera Type (Canon A-1) - what's up with that?

It's my hope (fingers crossed!) that Flickr still has all my EXIF data and it will be restored when they complete this migration they are doing (see staff reply that I pasted into the thread in another reply below).
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

It's back - on a new photo I just uploaded:

www.flickr.com/photos/filsdepersonne/46690441965/

but not on my old photos ... yet .... hopefully it will return!
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Patrick Copley:

all the EXIF has been stripped away when I look at the file on my laptop.
Flickr is not supposed to change our originals. Compare the original you downloaded with the actual one on your hard drive (not the downloaded one, the original image file you uploaded to Flickr) and if they are different, then you found a bug.

You can Google for a binary comparison tool on Mac. This seems to be suitable for the task:

ridiculousfish.com/hexfiend/

If you see any difference, then this issue is far more serious than just missing EXIF information.

Flickr was struggling for storage at some point and they devised an ingenious scheme to re-compress users' originals, as described here (search for original):

code.flickr.net/2017/01/05/a-year-without-a-byte/

I don't know how much of this was implemented, but if they are recovering original images on demand, as they write, then there may be bugs in the algorithm that may corrupt some data in the resulting image file.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

~andre:

Well they are definitely different when I compare them using the binary comparison tool you recommended (HexFiend) - but the original is a TIFF and the file that Flickr calls the "original" is a JPEG (re-compressed, I suppose), so there will be differences anyway...
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Patrick Copley:

but the original is a TIFF and the file that Flickr calls the "original" is a JPEG (re-compressed, I suppose), so there will be differences anyway...
Ok, things get complicated then. What happens when you drop a TIFF file into Flickr uploader is that Flickr is grabbing the first TIFF page (layer) and uses it as the original, so, most people uploading TIFFs don't realize that and, depending on the quality of the original, find all sorts of issues with their "original" images.

I don't know whether in this case Flickr applies the EXIF from the original TIFF files or the the first layer. It's not difficult to verify, but I just never got around to do that.

So, the gist of all of this is that much depends on what that TIFF contained as its first layer and the EXIF in the TIFF file and, possibly, in the first layer.

If you would like, you can post that TIFF somewhere I can pick it up, like an Amazon Drive, or some other way, I could have a look at what's in that TIFF first page. You can send me a FlickrMail if you would like to keep it more or less private.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

The Searcher:

ou may be right, but without investigating you're offering no evidence to support your theory


Oh well...whatever you say. Again, I had all the fields until April 4th. Camera and lens type have always been displayed until 4/4/09. Then, all of the sudden, lens type has disappeared from all my uploads, even the old ones that displayed it. I didn't do anything different. I use the same editor and the same way of uploading my images. So, no, I am not inventing.

AND, here, I'm not talking about the replace function. The replace function has been broken too for a while, but I haven't used it in the last couple of days, so I don't know if it's fixed.

Glad everything works for you, but sorry, I don't get the camera type displayed for my exif, and that's true for my new uploads too.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

~andre:

Thanks, taking this to FlickrMail...
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Patrick Copley:

Here's some of my observations.

The original TIFF has only one layer with actual uncompressed image data. This means that instead of extracting a large thumbnail (e.g. Canon RAW CR2 image files contain an actual full-resolution JPEG file within the CR2 file, which Flickr extracts) and, consequently, there is no way to confirm for this specific case that the original was changed because Flickr itself produced that "original" out of uncompressed TIFF image data.

This explains how Flickr photo page has EXIF data and the originals don't - Flickr reads EXIF from the TIFF file when it creates their other image sizes, but then discards the TIFF file and only keeps their generated "original" image, so anyone poking around the "original" image will see almost no EXIF because Flickr doesn't copy EXIF data from TIFF to JPEG they generated.

Looking at the size of the Flickr "original" file, it's about 1.8 MB. When I export a JPEG image out of that TIFF file with 2% compression, I end up with a 10 MB file. If I use 25% compression, I end up with 2.3 MB file, so 1.8 MB file must use some crazy compression levels. My advice here is to produce your own JPEG files out of TIFF, so you can control your image quality instead of trusting Flickr's default TIFF-to-JPEG conversion software.

Finally, my speculation about what may be happening here with regards to the disappearing EXIF. Mind you, this is my speculation and nothing more. What I think may be happening is that if Flickr moves data to AWS in the way that doesn't just copy image files (i.e. just transferring image bits without any additional processing), but instead copies the original and then runs their usual processing pipeline that reads EXIF data from the originals and updates the database with that new EXIF information, then we would end up in the exact this situation where the EXIF would suddenly disappear because these TIFF-to-JPEG originals are bogus originals.

This might sound over-complicated, but Flickr developers often favor Rube Goldberg (incredible machine) style solutions and I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to minimize the amounts of transfer to AWS by trying to move only the originals and base photo metadata and would produce other sizes right in place, which implies that EXIF would be extracted at that point.

Anyway, that the theory.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

~andre:

Thank you for this extended research Andre!

So do you think that if I uploaded a JPEG with the EXIF, it is more likely that it would be retained in the migration from the old Yahoo servers to AWS?
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Patrick Copley:

Yes, plus you will ensure that the original has enough quality for smaller Flickr-generated images. There is no downside to generating your own JPEGs for Flickr uploads.

Some people also think that they create a backup this way, but it seems that you are keeping all your original TIFF files, so just keep doing that - Flickr never was and never will be a backup site.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

~andre:

And ... just thinking this through, it appears that Flickr had already finished migrated my account to AWS before this morning, so the latest TIFF that I uploaded has all the EXIF because it went directly to the new servers?

I wonder if Colette is having the same problem because she was uploading TIFFs?
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Patrick Copley:

because it went directly to the new servers?
Sounds plausible.

Patrick Copley:
I wonder if Colette is having the same problem because she was uploading TIFFs?
There's a very different workflow there. Not sure if there are any parallels, but I didn't investigate.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

Patrick Copley:

I wonder if Colette is having the same problem because she was uploading TIFFs


No, I don't upload TIFFs. My TIFFs files were converted to Jpegs before upload.

But I just know one thing and it's that all these years I never had trouble with the exif. Camera and lens type were always showing. All of the sudden, since 2 weeks ago, the lens model stopped showing on all my new uploads and disappeared from my old uploads. That's all I know. Is this due to migration? Well, I''ll find out sooner or later.

I never did anything different, same editor, same way of uploading, etc. At some point I thought it was due to the new version of Win 10. But I went ahead and reverted my computer to the previous version, to no avail. So, clearly, it's not a Win 10 problem.

As far as my editor is concerned, it has always shown the lens type, and still does. Since it's a Nikon editor, and since I only use Nikon lenses (no 3rd party), it's clearly not the editor (the editor does show the lens type).

So, there is nothing else to investigate for me. And the missing entry on the Flickr exif is clearly a Flickr problem.

I will resume uploading when the problem is fixed.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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susanjanegolding says:

I'm glad to find this topic. The exif information has vanished from all the photos that I uploaded as tiffs. It still displays in the jpegs but it has disappeared from the tiffs.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

I think the subject line should be renamed - the problem is not about the specific EXIF app, it's about TIFFs.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Specifically, it's about Flickr (allegidly) migrating images to AWS by importing stored original images, which drops the EXIF supplied with original TIFF files when they were uploaded by users.

This is a data loss situation and Flickr should preserve EXIF data in the database since the new "upload" is not user-initiated.

Having said that, I wouldn't hold my breath for it. I bet Flickr considers this just as collateral damage.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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susanjanegolding says:

I've been corresponding with the help staff on this issue. After several emails they told me they were elevating the issue and I haven't heard from them since.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

~andre:

which drops the EXIF supplied with original TIFF files when they were uploaded by users.


? I don't upload TIFFs. I upload Jpegs. Until 2 weeks ago nothing was missing from the exif on Flickr. I have always had the lens model displayed in the Flickr exif, whether at upload, or when I replaced images.

Not sure what you are talking about, but keep talking...
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

susanjanegolding:

Well, the lens type has vanished from all my images starting with the beginning of time as well as from my new uploads (except for a few odd ones not recently uploaded). This field is blank everywhere, old or new images.

Somebody who seems to know everything here was blaming this on me replacing my images to smaller sizes; however, I have replaced since the beginning of my time on Flickr without a glitch, without missing the lens model until about 2 weeks ago.

I reached to the help people, but basically they told me it's not a Flickr problem....In their response they blamed it on Windows even though I have used Win 10 for a long time now without problems. Win 10 didn't break 2 weeks ago!

Glad they are "escalating". This remains to be seen. I decided that will resume uploading when they fix this problem.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Patrick Copley:

I think the subject line should be renamed - the problem is not about the specific EXIF app, it's about TIFFs.
I agree, it would be good if the OP or Flickr renamed the topic to avoid any confusion with other cases of disappearing EXIF information.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Obsies says:

I've raised the Q to Flickr and they acknowledged the issue. Still nothing, and it's frustrating to pay more for less features...
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Obsies says:

ColetteSimonds:

It happens the same with my pictures, lens data is gone, and the extended Exif is reduced to a minimum. It should be taken a bit more seriously.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Obsies:

This thread is specifically for EXIF disappearing if the uploaded original image as was a TIFF file. If you didn't upload a TIFF file and your EXIF disappeared, then it's some other issue. You can create a new thread to troubleshoot.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

~andre:

And actually who cares if it's TIFF or Jpegs. Why create a new thread? so it can go to waste? The problem is exactly the same whether uploaded files are TIFFs or not. So perhaps the post should include Jpegs also. My bet is that more people upload Jpegs than TIFFs. But in any case the problem is the same: missing lens info and parts of the exif missing.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Obsies says:

~andre:

Ugh? To my understanding, the title of this thread reads as follows:

"AnalogExif suddenly only shows camera type on Photo page - no lens, no other Exif data"

No mention to any TIFF file, so I don't see any reason for me or anybody else having the exact same issues as the OP to not join the conversation.

Now, if you can point me at the title where it states that it's ONLY for TIFF files, I'll go for a hike.

Thanks! KR, Marcelo
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Obsies:

Ugh? To my understanding, the title of this thread reads as follows:
Try reading the thread..The title doesn't reflect the issue that was identified in the course of troubleshooting.

Obsies:
Now, if you can point me at the title where it states that it's ONLY for TIFF files, I'll go for a hike.
Depends on whether you want to troubleshoot your issue or not. If you feel like insisting your issue is the same in an unrelated thread, then keep going.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Obsies says:

~andre:

So, troubleshooting does not works based on thread titles but instead on what is developed inside the thread?

Not arguing but trying to understand how this "help forum" works.

Meanwhile, I've opened a ticket with Flickr on 4/16 and they confirmed that there were several others complaining about the exact same thing as I and others have on this thread (Collette Simonds, susanjanegolding, Gecko47...) but you may have a better advice that I'd gladly follow.
Perhaps, what you are implying is that the more threads with individual issues (even if it's the same one issue) is calling up more attention?
Thanks!
KR, Marcelo/Obsies
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Obsies:

Perhaps, what you are implying is that the more threads with individual issues (even if it's the same one issue) is calling up more attention?
I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that each bug has its own steps to reproduce. This one relates to how Flickr processes TIFF uploads and how Flickr-generated "original" JPEG files are handled. If this is not your case, then this is not your thread.

Obsies:
So, troubleshooting does not works based on thread titles but instead on what is developed inside the thread?
Yes. Thread titles are created by users who don't always follow these threads after they got the answer they were looking for and they don't bother with editing the title to reflect the nature of the problem. Hard to blame them, given how many people in this thread fail to understand steps to reproduce and keep insisting on Flickr just addressing their issue, whatever it is.

Reminds me of a joke how a guy was looking for his car keys under a light pole and when somebody asked them whether they lost it there, he said "No, but there's more light here".

Anyway, I can't explain it any more clear. If you want hang around this thread, it's your time.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

Norby says:

~andre:

Flickr doesn't consider losing EXIF information "collateral damage." In the case of Colette's images, I addressed that case on the other thread. To reiterate what I said there, the information is still stored. It's just not being sent to the site along with the rest of the EXIF fields when requested.

Patrick Copley:

If you have examples of images losing EXIF information entirely, I'd be happy to look into it, though as you have discovered for yourself, the transition from TIFF to JPG does mean that what we store as an "original" is never going to be the same as the original TIFF file uploaded.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Norby:

Flickr doesn't consider losing EXIF information "collateral damage."
Notice that my comment was specifically in the context of this thread. That is, when a Flickr user uploads a TIFF, Flickr grabs EXIF from that TIFF and produces a JPEG without EXIF information. Now, if Flickr were to move this "original" to, say, AWS, hoping to recreate EXIF as a side effect of this move, then there will be no EXIF. This is where I meant that EXIF could be considered as collateral damage for TIFF uploads when they are moved to AWS.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

Norby:

Hello Norby - here is an image that has lost its EXIF entirely. As discussed upthread, it was uploaded as a TIFF and Flickr changed it to a JPEG - andre's theory is that in the migration to AWS, all the EXIF data was lost:

www.flickr.com/photos/filsdepersonne/46559769785

... except the camera type, which might be stored differently.

This applies to most of my images from the time I started this thread back to three years. All of them had full EXIF tags until early April of this year. My recent JPEG uploads - uploaded in that format since andre theorized about the TIFF problem - are retaining their EXIF.

Thanks for looking into this.

Patrick
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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~andre says:

Patrick Copley:

... except the camera type, which might be stored differently.
I experimented a bit more yesterday and noticed that Flickr copies some EXIF/XMP fields, bot not binary (usual) EXIF fields. May be this can explain that some information is still shown.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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rayc6779 says:

I get this problem. An image I uploaded on 9 March 2019 shows the lens data next to the camera type. See www.flickr.com/photos/129792569@N07/46603515614/in/datepo...
The images I uploaded on 26 April do not show the lens data next to the camera type. See www.flickr.com/photos/129792569@N07/33826082978/in/datepo...
Same software used on both. I upload jpeg files.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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ColetteSimonds says:

rayc6779:

At least the complete exif was preserved on your 9 March image. Not the case with my images. My entire collection has lost its exif. And I'm talking about my entire collection of uploaded images that are private. My public ones have been replaced by smaller ones, so I am not talking about the public ones. There is no reason why my older images have lost part of the exif.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Picture post. says:

exif missing on all my old posts hope this is not for good.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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wildhareuk says:

Picture post.:

I'm guessing that you have hidden the exif from public gaze in your settings as I can't see the exif for any of your images that I have looked at.

Could it be that you are looking at your photostream in "public" mode?
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Picture post. says:

i can see all the exif for my last three years posts its prior to that they are missing...strange.
Posted 8 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

Great news - all my EXIF data is back.

Thanks Norby & Flickr.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

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Obsies says:

Patrick Copley:

Patrick, does it applies to pictures uploaded after April 4th?

I've got back all of my Exif data as well, but only for pics uploaded prior to April, not for the ones uploaded after then.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Copley says:

Obsies:

All of my Exif has been restored, throughout my entire photostream.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

This thread was closed automatically due to a lack of responses over the last month.

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