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[Closed, Official Topic] Updated Community Guidelines

Flickr Staff

Zack Sheppard says:

We have made some changes to the Community Guidelines. The main change is to allow for businesses, non-profits, and other organizations to have an account on Flickr, plus there’s also been some general rejiggering and tightening up of the language overall. This doesn't change that commercial behavior is not allowed but allows for organizations to have an account on Flickr without breaking the rules.

You can read more about the Community Guidelines changes and why we made them in the blog post.

We've also added an extra line in the "What are content filters?" FAQ to help give a little more clarity to what might be moderate and restricted, "A good rule of thumb is, bare breasts and bottoms are "moderate." Full frontal nudity is "restricted."

If you have any feedback please let us know here.
Posted at 10:18AM, 1 February 2011 PDT ( permalink )
Zack Sheppard (staff) edited this topic 53 months ago.

(101 to 200 of 501 replies in [Closed, Official Topic] Updated Community Guidelines)
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Eric Hunt. says:

Fly - a contact was threatened with deletion for posting shots that Flickr deemed voyeuristic, and the threat was reiterated *even after he provided proof that the subjects being photographed were aware of and consented to the photography*.

It's madness, really.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:

For real?

FFS. Please re-read the post, in its entirety. Jesus.

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:


These questions are rhetorical: they aren't meant to have specific answers. I'm using them to point out the difficulties involved, from a user's point of view, in determining what the Guidelines mean at any given point in time.




HTH.

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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FlyButtafly says:

Calling on Jesus isn't going to help your case any.

Well... I can't speak to that, but all I know is what I've seen in the forums these last 6 years (dangit, I can't believe I completely missed my Flickrversary!!!) and while I have seen instances where Flickr made mistakes, the vast majority have been well-deserved deletions... and not always for the reason the account-holder in question claimed.

See my reply to Eric.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

"It's madness, really."

Unless the appearance of voyeuristic is the kind of thing Flickr doesn't want on the site. They don't want sexual violence depicted either, and I'm pretty sure they don't care if it's staged or not.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

FlyButtafly: That's great, but there are those wrongful deletions with no means of undoing it. I think that, especially if there is no means of restoring an account, that if you are going to delete an account, the rule the deletion is based on should be very clear and have no gray area. The creepy rule is so open to interpretation that I don't feel it should ever be cited when deleting an account.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Eric Hunt. says:

You just helped further the point, Searcher. If they want to avoid the appearance, then specify that. Instead they say don't take voyeuristic shots.

Fly - the best analogy I can make is criminal justice. Sure, I agree Flickr does an incredible job of keeping the place clean of undesirables but should we accept collateral deletions in the name of keeping the neighborhood safe?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:

Unless the appearance of voyeuristic is the kind of thing Flickr doesn't want on the site. They don't want sexual violence depicted either, and I'm pretty sure they don't care if it's staged or not.

My point isn't that Flickr should or should not allow any one kind of photograph or behaviour, but that they should let us know clearly and unambiguously what material and behaviour is grounds for deletion, we shouldn't be at the mercy of the interpretation of the Guidelines by a staff member some months or years down the road from now. "Voyeuristic", non-nude, legal shots were tolerated by Flickr for the first few years of its existence and then they weren't, and that can apply to any other category of content or material, and it's currently arbitrary, and completely up to whomever happens to be on Flickr's staff at the time of the deletion. That is my point. So how am I, as a user who has been on Flickr for 5 years, supposed to know what is going to get my account deleted tomorrow, next month, or next year? "Guidelines" don't cut it.

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

Wrongful deletions, especially with no means of restoring the account, are big enough an issue that they get a fair amount of press:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/01/flickr-deletes-photos_n...
www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2011/02/01/flickr-delete...
www.observer.com/2011/tech/flickr-accidentally-deletes-us...
www.geek.com/articles/geek-cetera/flickr-cant-retrieve-us...
www.1001noisycameras.com/2011/02/flickr-accidentally-dele...

If for nothing else, Flickr should improve their deletion procedure to avoid bad press.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )
adameros edited this topic 53 months ago.

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phoneymanflickr says:

They don't want sexual violence depicted either, and I'm pretty sure they don't care if it's staged or not.

They also, apparently, don't want "sexualized urination", whatever that may be, but they haven't said so. I found out by hearing about accounts that had been deleted for it, not by reading about it in the Guidelines, or the FAQ, or any other piece of officialdom emanating from Flickr. So, given that Flickr does not have a policy against pornography generally, how is someone who engages in "watersports" as a photographic hobby supposed to know this until they get deleted for violating, what, exactly? The moral sensibilities of someone at Flickr HQ?

What else is on "the list"? Why can't I know about it until it's too late? Why do I need to crawl around the Help Forum or other groups to find out what has historically lead to deletions and try to infer from that what may, or may not, lead to me being deleted?

Kids smoking, anyone?

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome says:

I've said long ago, Flickr fixes 99% of the problems that exist with account deletions once they introduced their long-promised "undo" feature for account deletion.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome says:

Heh. And the accidentally deleted account is reason #1 to never, ever use the Report Abuse feature. That's an epic fail.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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AlaskaLoneWolf says:

@parkylondon ....then what is the point of paying for space on the server. Is it just the abstract etch-a-sketch whimsy of somebody with a hard on to make a point, having spent both time AND money to put photography out there? I totally disagree. That's why there's a specific term of service. It's a mutual promise made by both people in a legally binding contract. It's not like, "Oh well... all my photos got 'deleted' by the service I paid for." Unless they are, in fact, stolen images that belong to someone else, or intellectual property of another, then my argument is that it is akin to a harbormaster watching my yacht. He has responsibility to me, whether he wants it or not. Flickr is managing what is my property. If they can't handle the responsibility then there are many other services than can, and do.

Photobucket
DeviantArt
Picasa

...need I go on. Not to mention I could build my own website and forget flickr altogether. Perhaps they should consider the ramifications of a whole lot of people being worried that their data is essentially unsafe.

Personally the ONLY reason I PAY money to flickr for storage is so that I have public access to my images from anywhere on the planet, that the group of images are vetted by the filtering/monitoring process so that they are there TO BE SHARED.

For me this is a huge issue. I have already started bringing my photos back to my harddrive, and publishing my images to other sites that don't have "accidents" with my data.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

Zack Sheppard says:

We've been working on the ability to restore accounts for a while and hope to have it completed early this year.

We have been in contact with Mirco and may be able to restore his account. The partial work that has been done so far may make it possible to retrieve the account. It's only a maybe but we want to try and do everything we can to rectify this mistake.

Just as people have stated above, we also believe this is an important feature to have in place for cases like this when there was an error. As many of you know we usually do not discuss features before they are released but because of the community concern we wanted to let you know in this case.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Wonderlane says:

the feeling hasn't changed
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )
Wonderlane edited this topic 53 months ago.

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SF Lіghts says:

The only thing you can count on is that one day the plug will be pulled on this service. Until then enjoy it.

We (the users) created this "service" and gave it our own design. We WILL fight for it.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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ther-esa says:

The thing that offends me is how when these things happen, we are always reminded that flickr is "a business". But when they are trying to sell up flickr in the media they (flickr staff or spokespersons) start putting the community spin on it. One article even referred to the communitiy managers job as "nation building". A recent article quoted the management referring to the folksy practice of friends and family passing snapshots around in the living room and claiming that the ultimate goal of flickr was to "return" to this sort of community experience.

Sorry but I don't remember the landlord or the banks who owned the building busting in and confiscating/destroying one of the visitors photo albums. Its just so random and arbitrary with deliberately vague rules that allow for any account to be deleted at any time for almost any reason - real or imagined.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome says:

Zach, addressing one of my top-5 feature request provides some comfort, and it may even rival Guest Pass for Collections as the 2nd most important upgrade Flickr could make. But due to the delay in implementation, I think it's important that Flickr hit the #1 concern: 1 dozen free donuts for all Flickr Pro members.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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ther-esa says:

glad to hear that an "undo" feature is in the works.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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ther-esa says:

i think a lot more people than jakerome have been asking for an undo feature. Don't know who asked first but it was probably someone who got deleted or is in the habit of defending those who do get deleted.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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ther-esa says:

I really think the issue of being informative rather than being cute was one of the more important points made in the thread. The fact they are working on an undo feature should not mean that everything is dandy and lets go back to being cute and demanding donuts.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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chloe & ivan says:

omg.
so many worlds out there I have escaped contact with.
I am grateful but wary.
will try to get more cute and demanding donuts up soon.

undo would be good, because reading some recent posts makes me nervous I was in a grey area of the rules.
let me clarify.
no frontals.

but as a working designer I put up some stuff that I am working on that we sell.
cuz I was going "lookit what I made!"
but may be in a grey area.
donuts are safer.
somebody else made 'em.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:

Are you guys working on a feature where you don't make people who's accounts you've deleted beg, repeatedly, and for weeks at a time, for a reason, with specificity? Will that take long?

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Rick Bailey. says:

I there a way filter when a person last commented on your pictures?? I have given hundreds awards out and some of my "friends never comment......I would like to say " I'm sorry but I have commented on your crap 57 times and you have commented zip,,,,nada,,,,,zip. So I'm removing you as a selfish contact Goodbye.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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lingmonkey says:

[removed by staff]
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )
Zack Sheppard (staff) edited this topic 53 months ago.

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Flickr Staff

Zack Sheppard says:

Please don't use the help forum just to promote links just post links lingmonkey
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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ther-esa says:

rickdbailey says: I have given hundreds awards out and some of my "friends never comment.....

are you being funny?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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█ fo112 █ says:

agree....
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Stevekin says:

It may have been asked for before, but I did put the idea to Heather 4 years ago. For a different reason, as we witnessed an account that had been phished go into melt down. But basically an 'undelete' feature.
I guess they've been working on it ever since : www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/34075/176125/
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

I have given hundreds awards out and some of my "friends never comment......

Seriously?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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purvesjk says:

Zack,

I've just read this really rather worrying statement on TechChrunch, is it true?
techcrunch.com/2011/02/02/flickr-accidentally-wipes-out-a...

Not only did you delete the wrong account, someone who was actively contributing to the Flickr community but policing the mis-use of copyright materials but you've wiped the account with no way of repairing it?

What are the changes of something similar happening to everyone else's account at the slip of a keyboard stroke? One of the main reasons I PAY to have a Flickr Pro account is as a reliable back-up of my photos.

Please confirm what procedures you have in place to ensure people's accounts are arbitrarily wiped and what back-up procedures are in place to restore accounts. What timeline do you plan to "make it possible to retrieve the account" as you stated in your response above?

With these doubts over the safety of my photos I'm may have to consider moving my photos and account to another more trustworthy service provider.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

...
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )
kmacgray edited this topic 53 months ago.

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kmacgray says:

With these doubts over the safety of my photos I'm may have to consider moving my photos and account to another more trustworthy service provider.

As iansand states in another thread:

"30,000,000+ accounts. Maybe 3 (certainly fewer than 10) accidental deletions in the time I have been around (5 1/2 years). Be afraid, be very afraid."
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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nSonic says:

i wonder why it isn't possible for flickr to restore an account WITH pictures out of a backup?

doesn't flickr make any backups in case of server crashes?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Paul Parkinson LRPS (parkylondon) says:

It's good news that Flickr are (finally) implementing an Undo feature. It's too little too late for many people who have the summary execution without trial invoked on them.

I note, with interest, the "Guidelines" are very subjective. That there is no way of knowing what is okay one week and which might, because someone takes over the job at Flickr suddenly become unacceptable.

We need the ability to challenge a decision at Flickr, we need the right to appeal. Without that, Flickr is just an autocracy with one person wielding infinite power.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ministry says:

One of the main reasons I PAY to have a Flickr Pro account is as a reliable back-up of my photos.

Um. That's probably not a great idea. Flickr isn't really a file storage service.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

One of the main reasons I PAY to have a Flickr Pro account is as a reliable back-up of my photos.

Seconding what said. Backing up your photos in just one place, especially a web service, is not a good idea. I hope you meant to say that Flickr is ONE of the places where your images are stored.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Paul Parkinson LRPS (parkylondon) says:

@kmacgray We haven't agreed on too much in the last 24 hours but I totally agree with your last comment.

Any photog who values their work should have a local version of their files (e.g. RAWs, PSDs and Lightroom Indexes), a back up of these files on something robust (e.g. a Drobo) and then ANOTHER back up in the Cloud.

And Flickr is NOT that back up.

[I like Flickr; I used to love it. I think that says something]
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

Agree 1000% with you here. There have been too many topics in the Help Forum from people who have used Flickr as the ONLY place to store their images.

I sometimes tend to be a curmudgeon, but I'm not always disagreeable. : )
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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leesure says:

I'm saying that account deletions will occur under any version of the CG, as deletions are warned of under TOS. If what people want is flickr to stop deleting account altogether, or to implement a holding system, then that's best raised in Flickr Ideas.

Yes, it's been raised for years, and until a few posts ago, it's been roundly ignored.

What's so wrong with making an account 'private' before actually deleting them? It gives the account holder an opportunity to correct any offenses and prevents the possibility of mistakes.

4 years for THAT?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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leesure says:

Oh...and yeah, using flickr as a backup is not prudent.

That said, while I have good backups of all the content on flickr, I sure wouldn't want to lose the threads comments, photo comments and contacts I have made. That represents a considerable amount of my time invested into the community.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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TheOm3ga says:

Who's talking about using flickr as a backup? It's way more than that. It's all the links, the reputation you build base on your flickr's gallery. The contacts, comments, groups... Dude, moo's business cards include your flickr URL, what if a potential client tries to enter your flickr account and finds it empty, or closed?

Google, please, buy flickr as soon as possible.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

Who's talking about using flickr as a backup?

Lots of people. Here's a sampling:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/19525/
www.flickr.com/help/forum/72157624314235743/
www.flickr.com/help/forum/34189/
www.flickr.com/help/forum/45226/
www.flickr.com/help/forum/11138/
www.flickr.com/help/forum/37094/
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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TheOm3ga says:

yep, what about the rest of my comment?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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andyscamera says:

The rest of your comment just said that Flickr was more than a backup, which I think most of us will agree with.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

What about it? As stated previously, the chances of an account being accidentally deleted are very small, and it's not something I personally worry about. I'm even less worried now that staff has acknowledged they are working on a way to recover the data should the Mirco incident ever happen again.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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archidave says:

Are you paid to comment on Flickr's behalf?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Wil C. Fry says:

"Are you paid to comment on Flickr's behalf?"

Flickr staff members are listed here: www.flickr.com/about/

I don't see kmacgray listed there...

But speaking of staff, I'm still curious about my question (which has now been pushed off the page by the above discussion). If there was a response, I missed it.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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andyscamera says:

If you take pictures as part of your job, the photos generally belong to the employer (work for hire). I suspect that will cover a lot of cases. But as with all Flickr rules, there are going to be fuzzy parts around the edges, including the definition of "organization".
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

Not that I am aware of.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kitby says:

From this previous comment by :

Example. My friend "Frank" and I start an "organization" so now I can upload both my images and Frank's images to the same photostream, because the photostream belongs to the "organization."
Was this example intended to be something that should be allowed or should not be allowed under the guidelines? Or was the example purely for clarification purposes?

I suppose I'm curious what the consequences of allowing that sort of "organization" might be, and how it interacts with the "create a transparent and authentic identity" best practice/guideline.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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FlyButtafly says:

TheOm3ga wrote

Dude, moo's business cards include your flickr URL, what if a potential client tries to enter your flickr account and finds it empty, or closed?


I'll address the rest of your comment.

You don't need to put your Flickr URL on your Moo cards, and if you want a dedicated website for clients to see your galleries, you're better off getting a professional gallery site or blog. You should have seen Flickr in its early [beta] years, when it would go offline for hours at a time for "massages", or later when it would have the hiccups all the time. Flickr may have changed to allow the usage of organizations and businesses to show their "behind the scenes" stuff and all, but the fact remains it's not a professional gallery site and you shouldn't treat it like one.

That is awesome to hear. It can't come soon enough.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

"you're better off getting a professional gallery site or blog."

So a "professional" or "pro" account isn't professional?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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FlyButtafly says:

adameros wrote

So a "professional" or "pro" account isn't professional?


Correct.

It is "pro" as "in favor of." It has never ever meant "professional."
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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copsunited1 Thanks for 1,000,009,150,010 Views says:

Community Guidelines?

In Dec '10 I banned a person from 3 of my 38 Groups. He took umbrage to the maximum. Threats, profanities, rants.. the man is nuts. I blocked him from my emails.

Since that time he has created two new accounts just to write emails with his garbage, treats etc. This person has a real problem.

How do I eliminate this constant attack? This harrassment is not what I want, need or expect. This is the second time I've tried to make an issue of this but failed.. apparently. If any sicko ever needed to be rejected.. it's this person. Please check out my 38 groups.. all good wholesome photos.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Michael Smith says:

Best way to deal with this is to hit the 'Report Abuse' link, then select 'Other Concerns' and explain what is happening.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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flush gorden says:

"A good rule of thumb is, bare breasts and bottoms are "moderate."

I think this guideline really needs to be expanded upon as recently a flickr friends stream was moderated. Not because there were bare breasts or bottoms but because on the images in question her shorts and t-shirt were too tight. Yet had it been a bikini it would have been fine.

It came across as lacking in common sense on flickrs behalf.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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TheOm3ga says:

Looks like FlyButtafly and kmacgray aren't able to see beyond the end of their noses.

I said so because moocards include your flickr's URL by default, so It's not such a crazy idea to have your flickr account as your portfolio. Not that I encourage it, though.

Anyway, the world in general, and flickr in particular, won't improve because of you, FlyButtafly and kmacgray, if you keep being conformist and defending Flickr even after they themselves have recognised that they made a huge mistake.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ron McKinney Photography says:

This OT reply is probably really annoying, but I can't figure out how to create my own topic on The Help Forum. Can anyone give me direction?

Thanks, Ron
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

FlyButtafly: That is very misleading. If you were to ask people on the street that if the bought a "pro" version of something, what they thought it meant, they would say "professional".
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Michael Smith says:

archidave said: Are you paid to comment on Flickr's behalf?

This is mostly a user-to-user forum. When staff come to comment, there's a light grey box around the posting and 'staff' under their name. However, if you want to be sure that staff will read your comment, it's best to use Help by Email rather than the Forum.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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andyscamera says:

Back when Flickr was created, "pro" was a common term for the paid version (particularly of software), just as "lite" referred to a free or limited version.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Michael Smith says:

friscoron: Click the 'get help' link at the bottom of the page. You'll get a question saying 'What are you having trouble with?'.

Click the dropdown and (if its not covered by the other headings) select the bottom one referring to other matters.

Then you'll get links to ask a new question or email for help directly.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Wil C. Fry says:

andyscamera
'there are going to be fuzzy parts around the edges, including the definition of "organization".'

I understand that, I think. And I'm not really asking for staff to define "organization."

kitby
"Was this example intended to be something that should be allowed or should not be allowed under the guidelines? Or was the example purely for clarification purposes?"

Yes, purely for clarification.

The reason I asked (which I probably should have included) is that I often volunteer my time in the help forum. In the past, we've made a habit of telling people in the forum: "Flickr is intended for personal use; you should only upload content *you* have created."

With a slight change in the CG wording, I'm not sure if this is the right answer anymore, IF the account is for an organization (a local hiking club, for instance, is an organization by any common definition).
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

if you keep being conformist and defending Flickr even after they themselves have recognised that they made a huge mistake.

I think the accidental deletion of a user's account is an extremely grave error on Flickr's part. I'd rather they admit the mistake and assure the rest of us they are working on a solution so that it doesn't happen again.

In your opinion, what should their reaction have been?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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FlyButtafly says:

Wil C. Fry wrote

With a slight change in the CG wording, I'm not sure if this is the right answer anymore, IF the account is for an organization (a local hiking club, for instance, is an organization by any common definition).


+1
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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FlyButtafly says:

TheOm3ga wrote

I said so because moocards include your flickr's URL by default


Erm, no?

I've made moo cards many times, and never had anything filled in by default. Perhaps you have some auto-fill in function in your browser that's doing that.

TheOm3ga wrote
if you keep being conformist and defending Flickr even after they themselves have recognised that they made a huge mistake.


Where am I defending what happened in that one specific instance?

I am not. However, I am trying to dispell misconceptions about what Flickr is. I've been here six years, and I would be beyond devastated if my account were nuked accidentally. No doubt. However, what I have said in this thread is that something like that has happened only maybe 4 or 5 times in those six years. It doesn't excuse what did happen, but it's extremely rare, and yet whenever it has happened, (or even when an account has been rightly deleted) the same people come into the forum with all the sturm and drang claiming Flickr is heavy-handed and nuking normal accounts left, right, and center.

I completely agree what happened with Mirco was unimaginably sucky. But that doesn't change what I've said about not using Flickr as a sole professional website/gallery nor as a backup service.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome says:

Like I said 18 months ago: www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/102379/668087/

and many times before or since. The real question is, why doesn't Flickr listen to me sooner... have I ever steered you wrong?

www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=...
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

Unfortunately, and this was also the case in the new photo page discussion last summer (of which I was an early critic), anything about Flickr said in a positive light is viewed as being a paid troll / advocate / apologist / staff member. I don't get that thought process, but it's not mine to get.

It's possible to still like Flickr and be critical of it at the same time.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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alanudi says:

wow! I'm a bit shocked at some of the comments here. There's quite a bit of dissension amongst the the Flickr users, and it also appears that this "Business" forgets that it needs customers, and new ones cost MUCH more than the long-time supporting kinds. Grow up Flickr.

I don't see why it's so unreasonable to take the suggestions on these users.

I think the accidental deletion of a user's account is an extremely grave error on Flickr's part. I'd rather they admit the mistake and assure the rest of us they are working on a solution so that it doesn't happen again.

In your opinion, what should their reaction have been?


Are you serious!?!

Fix your system, so that "Jimbo the intern" can't delete peoples accounts on accident, like with Micro.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kmacgray says:

alanudi Fix your system, so that "Jimbo the intern" can't delete peoples accounts on accident, like with Micro.

Which is what they are doing, as stated earlier in the thread.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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alanudi says:

Excellent. It's so nice of them to finally make it to the 21st Century.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Michael Smith says:

alanudi, see here for what Flickr's doing about the mistake, and how they're fixing the system in general:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157625954981158/page2/#...

Seems a good idea to me.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

It looks like another potentially wrongful deletion:

thomashawk.com/2011/02/another-bad-flickr-delete-two-days...

Perhaps Flickr to save deletion for only the most egregious rules violations, such as cases where Flickr has has some legal liability to do something, or if someone has ignored warnings. At least until their means of restoring accounts is in place.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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kitby says:

Wil C. Fry said:

With a slight change in the CG wording, I'm not sure if this is the right answer anymore, IF the account is for an organization (a local hiking club, for instance, is an organization by any common definition).
Yeah, now I'm wondering if there are (or will be) guidelines for deciding between "make a group and have individuals submit to that" versus "make one account for your organization."

My instinct says that the local hiking club should make a group, but someone's wonderful business should make an account under the "organizations can have accounts" bit.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

It looks like another potentially wrongful deletion:

thomashawk.com/2011/02/another-bad-flickr-delete-two-days...

Why are you assuming that was a wrongful deletion? There's nothing there to suggest wrongful, other than TH stirring the pot.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

I'm saying that over the years I have been on this site, I have seen a lot of deletions that I think were wrongful, and I'm willing to give the user who was deleted the benefit of the doubt. In my opinion, Flickr has shown a history of deleting users and groups over minor offenses that reasonable people would not think warranted deletion.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

There will always be people who disagree with the punishment for transgressing the rules. An "undo" function isn't for their benefit. It's for the rare instance when Flickr mistakenly deletes an account (that is an account that was not in any violation of the TOS or CG).

Bottom line - flickr has rules. You agree to those rules when you sign up (whether or not you take the time to read them). 99.95% of the site manages to do just find abiding by the rules. If you prefer to push the boundaries, you do so at your own risk.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

So, since several accounts have been deleted over the "Creepy Guy" rule, where is that line, exactly?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Bonemesh says:

Flickr's continued disregard, after all these years, for the treasures of its users just flabbergasts me. There is absolutely no excuse for not having a restoral mechanism for deleting years worth of someone's life.

Engineers: you don't even need an elaborate backup mechanism. Just replace your account "nuking" procedure with a "hiding" or "disabling" feature. As in: "Your account has been suspended due to blah blah...". Make the account invisible to the owner and everyone else, but keep it active and alive, for some period of time. If the user successfully disputes the deactivation, turn it on again. After 6 months, or however long you can afford it, nuke it permanently.

Why this wasn't done long ago is mind boggling.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:

It is "pro" as "in favor of." It has never ever meant "professional."

ORLY? Since when?

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:

I agree that it has likely never meant "professional", but "in favour of"? I don't think that making stuff up is helping the discourse any.

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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IrenicRhonda says:

I first saw that, pro meaning in favour of, written by Heather. She's been gone some time now so it was along time ago.

I'll try and find the original quote, but , as you know, Flickr's search isn't that great
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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FlyButtafly says:

edit: see below
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )
FlyButtafly edited this topic 53 months ago.

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adameros says:

FlyButtafly, can you cite any documentation from Flickr or a pre-existing post from the Flickr Staff to back up the claim that in regards to a paid Flickr account that "Pro" means "in favor of" and not "professional"?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

CateyCate says:

Hey Will - sorry about the delay.

As we noted before, the main idea to remember is that organizations, just like individuals, should upload original content. Not something purchased or taken from somewhere else but created by your organization. Yes it's fine if it's not always the same person clicking the shutter on photos in your organization's account.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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FlyButtafly says:

phoneymanflickr wrote

It is "pro" as "in favor of." It has never ever meant "professional."

ORLY? Since when?


Here are some threads for your reading pleasure:

June 2005: www.flickr.com/help/forum/8544/
Staff reply from 8mos ago: www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157624053233529/7215762...
Ideas thread from April 2006: www.flickr.com/groups/flickrideas/discuss/72157600044226960/
Another Ideas thread from Nov. 2010: www.flickr.com/groups/flickrideas/discuss/72157625165326217/
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

FlyButtafly,

In your first link, it is Brock responding. Is he a Flickr employee, or offical representative to deem what "pro" means?

In the second link, it just says it's an upgraded account, no work on if it's "professional" or not.

Third link, again, no Flickr Staff or offical Flickr spokes person declares what "pro" means.

And the same for the 4th link.

So far it's all just guesses and hearsay as to what "pro" means in the Flickr context.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:

buttafly, I already stipulated that it didn't mean "professional." Your links don't do anything to show that it means "in favour of," except for showing that the first instance of the use of "in favour of" came from you, ie: you just made stuff up. Regardless, it's not really a pressing point and not one I'm interested in either way.

I just want Flickr to start being clear and communicative with their users when they are taking necessary punitive steps. My experience with Flickr has certainly not included that. I don't think that it's out of line for a company like Flickr, who has been emphasizing the "community" aspect for years, to treat users with respect - including being absolutely, utterly, crystal clear about what actions will trigger account deletion. Further, when Flickr deletes an account, they clearly know at that time exactly why they are deleting it, and they should send that reasoning to the affected user.

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

FlyButtafly, can you cite any documentation from Flickr or a pre-existing post from the Flickr Staff to back up the claim that in regards to a paid Flickr account that "Pro" means "in favor of" and not "professional"?

Can you point me to the part of the TOS/CG or Flickr FAQ where is says that a pro account is a professional account?
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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phoneymanflickr says:

Can you point me to the part of the TOS/CG or Flickr FAQ where is says that a pro account is a professional account?

Given the links provided above it's certainly clear that there are users who think it means that. Common usage of the term "pro" means "professional." So, since Flickr is clearly not using the term "pro" in the sense of "professional" they should make it quite clear in the FAQ exactly what it does mean.

Pierre
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

Staff as recently as 8 months ago, note that Pro means upgraded.

Last time I checked, "upgraded" was not synonymous with "professional."
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

People think many things. It doesn't make them true.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

"Upgraded," I think you will find, is more synonymous with "professional" than "in favor of".

RubyMae, you still have not replied to this:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157625954981158/7215762...
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

phoneymanflickr But you, Pierre, know better, as does your mad mate adameros. As you know, "Pro" means you have paid for the account. What I find intriguing is that, notwithstanding this knowledge, you continue to promulgate misinformation. And you wonder why I think you are fuckwits.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

Why would I? Where ever I put the line is irrelevant, I'm not the one reviewing accounts (and you should be very thankful for that). You know (and you know why) staff will not answer it either.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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MabelAmber® ***Pluto5339*** Queen of Streetshots says:

RonMcKinneyPhotography

To start your own topic in the Help Forum: click on help top right of your page, then click on "select a category" - select "I have a question not listed here" - you will then be given several options including starting your own topic in the Help Forum
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

Mabel - that was already answered.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

When I buy a product with "Pro" in the label, I assume it is an enhanced professional version of their product.

And next time I talk to my local Golf Pro, I'll let him know you don't think he is a professional.

Pro also means prostitute. Maybe that's the meaning, and it explains why it's okay for Flickr to screw users by deleting accounts without warning.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae says:

I assume

And there's your problem. You may want to actually research what you're paying for next time.
Posted 53 months ago. ( permalink )

This thread has been closed by Flickr Staff.

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