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Search the Help Forum

[Closed] dmu2 is gone?

adameros says:

I just disappeared. Technical difficulties, or intentional?

www.flickr.com/groups/dmu2/
Posted at 1:10PM, 12 October 2009 PDT ( permalink )
heather (staff) edited this topic 68 months ago.

← prev 1 2
(1 to 100 of 165 replies in [Closed] dmu2 is gone?)
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SF Lіghts says:

What do you think?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

I'm not looking for thoughts or opinions, I'm looking for facts.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brad Ross says:

Dead, Gone, Peace, RIP....etc
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Burnt Umber says:

Looks like it was deleted. Adios!
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

I think the appropriate term here is


crikey.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

If it was deleted, it would be interesting to know why. And if it was an issue with a user or two, why they were not dealt with directly, instead of destroying a whole vibrant community with over 3,000 members.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Civilized Explorer says:

Who here will know facts?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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RuanNiemann says:

?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

Well, there are maybe two options there...


continued abuse (accidental or deliberate) of ToS or that it was too damned nerdy to be DMU.

I think it may have been the first...
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ѕhims says:

It's the Flickr way adam
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ѕhims says:

A Group can't violate the ToS
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

It's okay, Comrade Hawk is regathering the revolutionary commandants.


or if you want less talk about all that stupid photography stuff and more useless conversation about bottoms, you can visit here until das leader gets his blog updated.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Lú_ says:

You'll find several topics in the Help Forum in which it's made clear that groups were deleted for Community Guidelines violations. The panda groups were particularly notorious.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

The most likely explanation would be a vast conspiracy against its members. I blame the lizard people.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

Ѕhims wrote

A Group can't violate the ToS


how do you figure that out? Sure it can.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

iansand wrote

The most likely explanation would be a vast conspiracy against its members. I blame the lizard people.


Damn those Lizards.


Damn them to hell.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome says:

Wendy posted this in the old Pirate/ Democracy DMU, Flickr Customer Care
Subject: Flickr Terms of Service
Hello, Wendy Martyn!

This is an automatically generated copy of a warning we sent to your primary email address:

-------------------------
Hi Wendy Martyn,

** This warning is being sent to all admins of DMU **

In joining Flickr, you agreed to abide by the Yahoo! Terms
of Service and Community Guidelines. Specifically, you must
not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate or intimidate other
Flickr members:

flickr.com/guidelines.gne

As an admin of a group on Flickr, it is your responsibility
to ensure that all of the activities within your group abide
by the Yahoo! Terms of Service and our Community Guidelines.


Unfortunately, recent events in DMU have escalated to such
a point that we can no longer host your group and it will be
terminated shortly. If you elect to begin again, you must
take a firmer hand in ensuring that activity within the
group abides by both the Y! TOS and the Flickr Community
Guidelines.

Regards,

Heather

Heather Champ
Director of Community, Flickr

-------------------------
If you'd like to respond to this warning, please send the email to case1336417@support.flickr.com to ensure a timely response.

You can change your primary email address at any time via your account page: www.flickr.com/account/prefs/email/
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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RuanNiemann says:

Lu, can you run that past us in english please?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

Lú_ wrote

The panda groups were particularly notorious.


They sound like fun.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

It might be the Flickr way, but I'm sure this sort of thing has happened before, and in the past don't the people in the deleted group just form a new group and continue on?

So, with out direct communication with the users, and perhaps a detailed warning, isn't this pattern just doomed to repeat?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Burnt Umber says:

I am not sure what was in the group. However a group is deleted one of two ways.

1) all but one admin steps down. The final admin. removes everyone out of the group and then leaves himself.

2) Staff found some gross violations and deleted the group.

If you are one of the old admins you can fmail staff and kindly ask them what happened.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

jakerome wrote

Wendy posted this in the old Pirate/ Democracy DMU, Flickr Customer Care


Wait a minute...


you mean the Pirate group got up to any kind of mischief at all? How the hell did I miss that?????
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Burnt Umber says:

adameros Yes it does. we see it all the time with individual accounts, but Flickr expects everyone to have read the TOS and the CG.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

So, I think the only person threatening people was Viking James. Why did Flickr destroy a whole community instead of dealing with the source of the problem?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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teh resa says:

I sincerely hope it wasn't an action taken by Flickr staff. Removing the dmu2 url solves nothing and leaves the community forever arguing about who said what.

If it was an action taken by the community manager than that action will have the end result of dividing the flickr community, this stuff leaks out into the behaviour of other flickr groups too. An action like that is not community building. It is divisive.

I sincerely hope it was a mistake. I understand the seriousness with which the staff take their jobs of enforcing the TOS but the group was in the process of working that dispute out for ourselves. At the point the group was deleleted the temperature had gone down considerably since last night,.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

adameros wrote

So, with out direct communication with the users, and perhaps a detailed warning, isn't this pattern just doomed to repeat?


You are quite right of course.

I can't help but feel that even if ToS have been butchered a good trail of warnings would be good to avoid such a loss.

It's the same old argument though isn't it? Please dearest Flickr, give some warning before you hit delete!
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Burnt Umber says:

Again, If you were an admin of the group you can send an Fmail to staff and request an explanation. None of us here now what went on in the group. At least I don't think anyone here knew.

Anyone?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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teh resa says:

just saw jakerome's comment. It was staff. Haven't been to the pirate group in awhile.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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user2.1 says:

I suspect it can only have been flickr admin. There were too many members for them to be deleted so quickly and the last admin to leave. I reckon it was the developing flame war given that one of those involved also seems to have had his account nuked.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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teh resa says:

can I get a link to the pirate group? quit ages ago...
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome says:

The warning will only work if heeded. I don't think the admins in DMU2 would ever have censored anything.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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teh resa says:

It was NOT developing...it was de-escalating. Members such as myself and others were joking about all hell breaking loose, trying to derail the dispute between Thomas Hawk and The Viking and it WAS beginning to lighten up,. The community was moderating itself JUST FINE thankyouverymuch. When we don't agree with the direction the mood is going we just step in and challenge the admins and take it in a different direction. Exactly what was happening.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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♥ shhexy corin ♥ says:

Therrrrrr

flickr.com/groups/_deletemeuncensored
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Lú_ says:

ruanniemann wrote

Lu, can you run that past us in english please?
Sorry, that *was* English.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

It may have had something to do with Thomas Hawk, an admin, posting the personal information -including phone number and address- of someone he was having an argument with, then posting this:

[TH blah blah removed -- let's not go there in the Help Forum]
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )
heather (staff) edited this topic 68 months ago.

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The Searcher says:

Thomas Hawk laid out a pretty convincing (if one-sided) laundry list of TOS-violating conduct on his blog (link available via rudimentary Googling.)

It's kind of hard to argue that he/they (as an admin of the group) are keeping the group discussion within the confines of Yahoo's TOS, while at the same time laying out point by point where they were not.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )
The Searcher edited this topic 68 months ago.

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ososment says:

*whistles*
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ѕhims says:

It was effectively a self-monitoring and self correcting problem until someone went Rogue.

I blame Sarah Palin.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

Isn't she for nuking gay whales for jesus?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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andertho says:

The only thing worse than a flickr nuking of an uncensored group is an admin nuking of an uncensored group so they "can save it."

I'm cool with this. Uncensored is dangerous -- it's edgy. Let's just start over and move on.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

heather says:

So, with out direct communication with the users, and perhaps a detailed warning, isn't this pattern just doomed to repeat?

Oh, a few of the admins had received a comparable warning in the previous incarnation of DMU (the one that imploded in February). So, today's deletion can't be that much of a surprise given the all manner of ugly that was brought recently to our attention via “Report Abuse”. Here's the warning that was sent to all admins prior to the groups deletion:

Dear [screen name],

** This warning is being sent to all admins of DMU **

In joining Flickr, you agreed to abide by the Yahoo! Terms of Service and Community Guidelines. Specifically, you must not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate or intimidate other Flickr members:

flickr.com/guidelines.gne

As an admin of a group on Flickr, it is your responsibility to ensure that all of the activities within your group abide by the Yahoo! Terms of Service and our Community Guidelines.

Unfortunately, recent events in DMU have escalated to such a point that we can no longer host your group and it will be terminated shortly. If you elect to begin again, you must take a firmer hand in ensuring that activity within the group abides by both the Y! TOS and the Flickr Community Guidelines.

Regards,

Heather

Heather Champ
Director of Community, Flickr


No gay whales were harmed in the writing of this post.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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andertho says:

This place has all the infrastructure in place and a bunch of members already, I'll be happy to hand the keys to Thomas Hawk:

www.flickr.com/groups/_deletemeuncensored/

Plus The Lightbox is intact.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ѕhims says:

I think only when they violate Alaska's territorial waters and harass the straight Whales.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ѕhims says:

How big of a happy dance did you guys do before you hit the delete button?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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user2.1 says:

dmu is dead, long live dmu.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

So DMU members were reporting abuse?

Geez I can only imagine how ugly it would have to get for that to happen.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

We're still going strong!
www.flickr.com/groups/d_m_u
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

Your wit, Searcher, it's rather..... dry.

You're British, aren't you.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

heather says:

How big of a happy dance did you guys do before you hit the delete button?

Happy dance? Never!
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

North African. But we were often colonized by the brits, so some of it rubs off.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Burnt Umber says:

In death everyone has a name in Project Mayhem. He has a name and his name was DMU.

And you know what. My life goees on unchanged.

H will be shutting this puppy down any seond
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

The Searcher wrote

North African. But we were often colonized by the brits, so some of it rubs off.


that's what Caleb's mum said
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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user2.1 says:

Who will get the DMU Nobel Peace Prize I wonder?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

not me...


'well here's the thing. this shows quite simply that Flickr can and will delete any group on the site if they disagree with it. The potential for them to delete another group means that I will no longer spend any time in forums on Flickr at all. " TH


every cloud...


;)
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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teh resa says:

No lynch mob was forming in that dispute. We moderate ourselves and openly disagree with TH and the other admins when things are getting out of hand. There has been plenty of tolerance for that. Deleting the group just removes the records of what has transpired even at the point where TH and The Viking were coming onto the same page, calming down and other people were changing the subject. That is self moderation. Deleting the group divides the community (as well as the whole outer flickr community to some extent). Its not community building. Its community destroying
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

Therrr wrote

Its not community building. Its community destroying


one could get into the argument about the necessity of social support and social control in a society that has rules... but it would be moot
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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teh resa says:

All you have succeeded in doing is to drive all the traffic that comes to TH's photostream over to his blog.

The uncensored concept was a valid experiment
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

So, if one or two people are the problem, why does Flickr destroy a vibrant group of over 3,000 member to stop one or two people from misbehaving?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Ewan says:

Experiments have results; sometimes they're negative.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

Therrr wrote

All you have succeeded in doing is to drive all the traffic that comes to TH's photostream over to his blog.


Well, even insomniacs need non medicinal support from time to time
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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teh resa says:

OS: yeah, society...but it was ONE group and the experiment was confined to that ONE group. When I started that thread about All Hell being about to break loose it was partly tongue in cheek and meant to derail the other dispute and reign things in . I think it suceeded to some extent.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

adameros wrote

So, if one or two people are the problem, why does Flickr destroy a vibrant group of over 3,000 member to stop one or two people from misbehaving?


for vibrant read nerdy and needy... but let's go with that for a minute.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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adameros says:

Also, the warning letter, how long was it sent prior to the deletion? And why did it not cite actual actionable items, like who is doing what wrong, with links, instead of a very vague ToS reference?

If you landlord evicts you and just says, "you violated the rental agreement", wouldn't you you like actual information whan and how you violated it?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

Therrr wrote

When I started that thread about All Hell being about to break loose it was partly tongue in cheek and meant to derail the other dispute and reign things in


I really don't think that thread had anything to do with it.

I suspect it was the rather vicious tone that other threads had started to take.

It is sad and maybe the admin should have been given the opportunity to delete the threads in question, but they wouldn't have done that...
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

adameros wrote

If you landlord evicts you and just says, "you violated the rental agreement", wouldn't you you like actual information whan and how you violated it?


it's not really the same thing.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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iansand says:

I find it very reassuring that no one involved with DMU had anything to do with this. Even their usual ridiculous behaviour was forced upon them.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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SF Lіghts says:

Do you know that for sure?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

Oh Ian, either that was quite tongue-in-cheek, or I am completely baffled by your comment.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Michael Smith says:

The other DMU still seems to be OK:

www.flickr.com/groups/d_m_u/
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

TH listed out quite a long string of "actual information" for when and how the TOS was violated, on his own blog. He seemed to take the tone and text quite seriously, in fact.

I think that was the point of the warning, too. It's up to the admins of a group to be aware of Flickr and Yahoo's terms, and administrate the group accordingly. If they do not, the results are as seen here.

I'm not sure how a claim of ignorance can be supported.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome says:

I think Ian may have drilled clear through his cheek.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

The Searcher wrote

I'm not sure how a claim of ignorance can be supported.


Sorry? TH and ignorant? In the same sentence?

For shame






etc.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

jakerome wrote

I think Ian may have drilled clear through his cheek.


why does everyone keep referring to Calebs mum?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

When Thomas Hawk, due to irreconcilable differences regarding how to deal with some very serious issues, was removed from adminship from the original DMU the only way allowed -by restarting the group ( www.flickr.com/groups/d_m_u/ )- he was already well aware of flickr's TOS. In fact, I imagine TH knows Flickr's TOS better than most. How he can all of a sudden have an epiphany regarding how flickr operates when he knew full well already simply is beyond ken.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )
'SeraphimC edited this topic 68 months ago.

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ososment says:

Poor Ken...

[Image removed for a second time. If it's reposted, I see a forum boot in your future]
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )
heather (staff) edited this topic 68 months ago.

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'SeraphimC says:

Thank god it's only by request.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )
'SeraphimC edited this topic 68 months ago.

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jakerome says:

Teacher, teacher, Os is posting images in the threads that aren't screenshots! I demand censoring!!!!
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

oops

erm... it is a screen shot of the new skin I have made for my flickr home page. If you click on his eye it will take you straight to my sets...
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

heather says:

Teacher, teacher, Os is posting images in the threads that aren't screenshots! I demand censoring!!!!

Done.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

I think we all owe Heather a beer for removing that offending album.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

sigh, for the love of Ken.


I am going to give that Jake Rome suuuuuch a wedgie at lunch time
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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andertho says:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q47bpOCTcaY&feature=related
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Mo Tabesh says:

dear heather,

all my photography questions.
all my youtube music links.
all my work, my time.

thank you heather,
you're the awesomest!
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ѕhims says:

DJ Mo. RIP.

Reckless. Thoughtless. Gleeful. Shameful.

I feel a Colusite haiku coming on.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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@notnixon says:

What a disgrace. Typically heavy handed actions from the "community" nazis.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

I think it's cute you use "heavy handed" in the same sentence as "nazis".

not ironical at all.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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RuanNiemann says:

DJ Mo, that sucks big time.
and where is the geotagged camera?
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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ososment says:

Chris Nixon wrote

What a disgrace. Typically heavy handed actions from the "community" nazis.


did you read the threads that led to deletion droogie?

It wasn't so much nazi as big brother.

At the end of the day there was a choice, escalate the argument to stupid levels of back off.

sadly the former was chosen.

It may be that flickr had little choice after all, they knew that no threads would be voluntarily deleted...
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )
ososment edited this topic 68 months ago.

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Mo Tabesh says:

500+ entry on DJ Mo thread shims, pages after pages my photography question. all the time we spent to make a community.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

I'm not sure which is more heavy handed, TH stating he was going to destroy a man's life over some silly comments, or a group being nuked because the admins of said group were not only allowing the posting of flickr user's personal information, but the admins themselves were doing it.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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SF Lіghts says:

All ruined by your lovely admin who wouldn't listen to a warning twice.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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'SeraphimC says:

Mo, you are always welcome in DMU:
www.flickr.com/groups/d_m_u/

You too, Andertho. It's time to come home.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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RuanNiemann says:

boys, try to contain your glee for just a while..
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Mo Tabesh says:

thank you seraphim c, but it doesn't bring back all the time i spent in the past 6 month.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ѕhims says:

Not likely on either count. You're taking a little to much glee in this Caleb and it's not very becoming.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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rolandvarriale says:

not cool on many levels. A lot of hard work, effort, good times, and photog discussion tossed by the wayside.

Much of my recent time on flickr is now gone without a trace
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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SF Lіghts says:

I don't think he is at all. Maybe if you were around the first time this happened you would understand.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher says:

SeraphimC: usually the kind of behavior you describe would lead to account deletions, not just group deletions. So it seems like maybe it was more of a light hand in the end. It's unfortunate that many were essentially punished for the actions of a few, though.
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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rolandvarriale says:

if by many you mean around 3500 then yes
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

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rolandvarriale says:

that is a lot of people to punish for the crimes of a few. Seems almost like a flickr genocide
Posted 68 months ago. ( permalink )

This thread has been closed by Flickr Staff.

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