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iphoto deleted my photos =(

siyuanhua PRO says:

hi flickr
apparently last night i was trying out iphoto for the first time and somehow it deleted all of my photos along with the comments =(
i was wondering does flickr have a backup? or its gonna forever...=(
Posted at 7:14AM, 27 September 2009 PDT ( permalink )

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Dr. Keats PRO says:

Gone forever, I'm afraid...
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Lú_ PRO says:

Every time this comes up in the Help Forum I'm even more convinced that iPhoto syncing is NOT AT ALL a good thing, to the point that Flickr ought to be advising against it.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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siyuanhua PRO says:

its ok i can start over
thx for the reply
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

Lú_ wrote

iPhoto syncing is NOT AT ALL a good thing
Well, to be fair to iPhoto, it does exactly what it promises to do... it keeps your Flickr account "in sync" with your iPhoto library. So if you delete a photo on iPhoto, it will delete it on Flickr. If you change a description on iPhoto, it will change it on Flickr, etc.

The problem I see is that a lot of people don't use Flickr in that way and iPhoto doesn't spell out all the details of how it works in a clear way, so when it does "sync", the results can be quite surprising/unexpected.

Saying that, I tried it out and decided it didn't work with my workflow. I do use their 'sync' with my Mobile Me galleries, though, as they serve a different purpose.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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heidelbergjane says:

Dear Brenda,

I hope that doesn't mean that if I delete a photo from Flickr that it will be deleted from iPhoto too. Does it?

Also, I'm not sure what people mean by 'synching' here. Does that mean that everything you put into iPhotos is automatically synched into Flickr? Because I don't think my Mac is doing that. I don't want it to, either.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher PRO says:

It does sort of run counter to the concept of "backups" or "originals". I think I'll keep my disorganized system of many copies hiding everywhere, thank you.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

heidelbergjane wrote

I hope that doesn't mean that if I delete a photo from Flickr that it will be deleted from iPhoto too. Does it?
If the photo is part of a synced set, then yes, as I understand it.The photo will be removed from the "flickr album" but not from your iPhoto library.

Only photos that you specifically put into a "Flickr-connected album" in iPhoto will be synced.

If you remove the photos from the synced set on Flickr, they will no longer be synced with iPhoto, so you can then safely delete them from your photostream without impacting on iPhoto.

*edited because I was unsure before, but I've since tested it.*
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )
Brenda Anderson edited this topic 95 months ago.

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The Parry Family 2008 PRO says:

SERIOUSLY I HATE HATE HATE the flickr iphoto integration. I just lost all 800 of my pictures because the engineers who designed this POS don't know how to manage the integration and user error. I am so pissed...

guess Apple doesn't care whether or not their users lose valubale priceless pictures. idiots
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Parry Family 2008 PRO says:

in fact, i can't believe flickr will allow this type of user interaction. Flickr should never allow 3rd party apps to DELETE photos from your flickr library. That is just ridiculous
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher PRO says:

I'll bet Apple's so sure it knows what's best for its users, that it deletes your photos off of all the "time machine" backups too.

I agree, I think such "integration" is a terrible idea. At least Flickr throws up warnings when you're deleting something. Apple should at least have a special warning for the "synced" folder that says something to the effect of "just so you know, this will blitz all your Flickr photos, too. Are you sure?"
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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loupiote (Old Skool) pro PRO says:

wow, that's pretty dangerous indeed. i would recommand against sync'ing with iphoto, until they implement serious warnings.

for example, if you delete a photo with the flickr organizer, the organizer will ask you 5 times to confirm if you REALLY want to delete the photo forever.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

The iPhoto Help screen says this about Flickr and deletions:

To stop publishing your photos to Flickr:
Select a published album in your Source list, and then press the Delete key.
Click Delete in the dialog that appears.
The album no longer appears on Flickr, but the photos remain in your photo library.
If you moved photos to this album from within Flickr, iPhoto asks if you want to import them to iPhoto. Only web-sized versions are imported.
"The album no longer appears on Flickr" is the key sentence there. It would be clearer to say "the photos will be deleted from Flickr".
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic PRO says:

well, flickr *could* pull iPhoto's API key. if this continues to be a problem. : ]
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

But it's doing exactly what it's meant to do, isn't it? When you authorize it, it says that you are giving permission to delete photos.

It works just like their own syncing product, Mobile Me. If you've got Mobile Me photo galleries and then decide to stop publishing them, they get deleted from your me.com site.

The whole concept is that your online presence mirrors your iPhoto library for those particular sets.

Yes, I agree that there is a lot of confusion about how it works, but I bet there are a lot of people who use it and it works just as they expect. It keeps their online 'albums' in sync with their iPhoto library. New photos added to synced albums get uploaded to Flickr, tags/descriptions added in Flickr get synced back to the photos in iPhoto, photos that are removed from the synced album on iPhoto get deleted from Flickr ... otherwise it wouldn't be a true sync.

Perhaps Flickr should have a dedicated FAQ section devoted to this that explains how it all works. That would be very useful.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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loupiote (Old Skool) pro PRO says:

i think it would be much better if all photos deleted on the device were put (by iPhoto) in a Flickr set called "iPhoto deteled images" in the user Flickr account.

i.e. some sort of "trash-bin" where things can be recovered if you did not mean to completely delete them.

apparently the iphoto developers are not very good at making a user-friendly app.

user-friendly means never completely delete things before making double-sure that the user wants to delete them. people make mistakes, and it's critical to be able to undo them.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )
loupiote (Old Skool) pro edited this topic 98 months ago.

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♥ shhexy corin ♥ PRO says:

for example, if you delete a photo with the flickr organizer, the organizer will ask you 5 times to confirm if you REALLY want to delete the photo forever.

5 times?! I hope it doesn't... it asks you for fewer confirmations when you're deleting your Flickr account!

I just deleted a pic and it asked me once.
:)
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Patrick Costello PRO says:

shhexy - I think maybe you intimidated it and it didn't dare ask again :-)
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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IrenicRhonda says:

I've found the number of times you asked depends where you are deleting from
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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loupiote (Old Skool) pro PRO says:

i was joking, organizer only asks you to confirm batch-deletion 3 times.

there is only 1 confirmation for web deletion of one image. but with organizer, you can delete a lot of images together with batch delete.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

zyrcster PRO says:

Just an FYI that some additional conversation about this was posted here:
www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/108070/

Which now redirects to this thread.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher PRO says:

I would hope Flickr wouldn't have to dedicate FAQ space for a tool only used by a very small percentage of total users, especially to serve as the warning that APPLE should be doing within it's own application.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic PRO says:

"It works just like their own syncing product, Mobile Me. If you've got Mobile Me photo galleries and then decide to stop publishing them, they get deleted from your me.com site."

yeah but let's get real. if any company other than apple or some other large operation was doing this without proper deletion warnings, flickr would pull the key until the proper warnings were in place.

chalking this up to "user error" isn't the answer. apple can do much better and in any other situation flickr would probably be 'helping them along'.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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RubyMae PRO says:

The Searcher (sorry, this time I don't think you're right) - ATT&U-verse have a dedicated FAQ. This is popping up frequently enough, that I think a FAQ here on flickr (even a single entry) wouldn't be a bad thing.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher PRO says:

I can see the text now: "Well that's your problem right there; you're using a Mac."
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Burnt Umber says:

I don't want to get off track. This is a serious problem. having lost photos because of a had drive crash and a stolen camera i know it really sucks. I posted an image to help warn people of the dangers of this application. I hope it helps.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic PRO says:

assuming apple doesn't do anything, and flickr doesn't do the impossible and pull the key, i don't think a FAQ entry would really cut it. by the time anyone read it, it would be too late.

i think flickr would probably need a warning page before the iPhoto to flickr API authentication step. a custom warning page that explains the risk of permanent deletion inherent in syncing.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn PRO says:

Yeah but how many can remember a warning message 30 minutes after having received it, let alone after a month or more has passed?
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic PRO says:

they may decide, if they aren't good at remembering, not to authorize.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

When you set up your iPhoto syncing, you get the message from Flickr that you are allowing iPhoto to delete your photos. Yet, we still see folks who say, as above, Flickr should never allow 3rd party apps to DELETE photos.

Obviously, the message that was displayed did not make much impact.

Yes, I agree that if you don't understand how the iPhoto sync is going to work, you could be in for a nasty shock. I'm just not sure that another warning would make a difference. There's only so much hand holding you can do.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

zyrcster PRO says:

Hello,

We're actually discussing this over here, just an FYI.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic PRO says:

oh i think you can hand hold as much as possible on this one, since the syncing clearly isn't intuitive.

there's a difference between "allowing to delete" where you generally assume there will be some manual confirmation step, and "automatic deletion" without any confirmation or confusing confirmation.

from what we are hearing in the forum, things are doubly bad because...

1] on the iPhoto side, the language isn't strong enough. "The album no longer appears on Flickr" is especially bad, because album aligns with set [mismatched terms], and deleting sets on flickr doesn't delete photos but doing so in iPhoto does. this is a user experience nightmare, and obviously so.

but even if apple got that right, you still have....

2] there is no feedback on the flickr side that deleting a flickr photo will eventually lead to deletion on the iPhoto side. ideally, when you are executing the deletion on flickr you should get a warning that "this photo is currently synced to your local iphoto library, deleting it on flickr may lead to the deletion of the corresponding file in your iphoto library".

so one side of the sync has bad feedback and the other side has no feedback. it is no wonder that this is leading to problems. it isn't the users' fault, that's for damn sure. UX FAIL.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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andyscamera says:

On the Mac end, iPhoto is doing the same thing with Flickr that iTunes does with an iPod. If you've deleted the file on the Mac (in iPhoto or iTunes) it deletes the file at the other end (Flickr or the iPod). So it makes logical sense on the Mac end. Apparently, though, people don't think of pictures on Flickr the way they do music on an iPod.

Some people are likely mistaking the "synchronization" feature for a simple uploading feature, when the two concepts are really very different.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Ewan PRO says:

What I don't understand (based entirely on these discussions) is why, if iPhoto doesn't sync your whole stream, but only particular 'linked sets', why a deletion on the iPhoto side isn't just deleting the picture from the set, rather than from the stream as a whole.

As well as being safer, that sounds more like the behaviour you'd expect.

On a note of (possibly) practical suggestion - it would be nice if there was a way to revoke (or not grant) a subset of an apps permissions, rather than simply authorising everything it asks for, or not authorising it at all.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

striatic wrote

there is no feedback on the flickr side that deleting a flickr photo will eventually lead to deletion on the iPhoto side
As far as I have ever seen, that doesn't happen. Deleting a photo from the Flickr set only removes that photo from the album on iPhoto. It does not delete it from the library (because, like Flickr, albums on iPhoto are just pointers to the Library, and removing it from the album does not delete it from the library).

If anything, that's the major problem with the iphoto/flickr sync. iPhoto should simply remove the photo from the set, not delete the photo from Flickr.

But then, how do they explain that to their users who expect that if they "stop publishing" their album on Flickr, the photos still stay on Flickr, just not in a set? I fear that would be even more confusing.

The whole "product" needs a good FAQ.

I also don't know what happens if I have a free account and try to sync more than 200 photos.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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loupiote (Old Skool) pro PRO says:

If anything, that's the major problem with the iphoto/flickr sync. iPhoto should simply remove the photo from the set, not delete the photo from Flickr.

yes!

user-friendly applications never completely delete things before making double-sure that the user wants to delete them.

people make mistakes, and it's critical to be able to undo them.

apple is supposed to be an expert in usability and userfriendlyness.

i think iPhoto should do what i suggested here: www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/107738/696536/
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic PRO says:

"On the Mac end, iPhoto is doing the same thing with Flickr that iTunes does with an iPod."

the problem is that flickr is NOT an ipod.

when itunes messes around with an ipod, you've got the two devices there, physically connected and with feedback from both.

"If anything, that's the major problem with the iphoto/flickr sync. iPhoto should simply remove the photo from the set, not delete the photo from Flickr."

sounds right.

"The whole "product" needs a good FAQ."

i agree, but that isn't really a solution. it is a bare minimum necessity but doesn't begin to address the fundamental problems. the experience should be intuitive and friendly enough that a FAQ isn't deathly critical.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

Probably worth mentioning that the "delete a photo from iPhoto deletes it from Flickr" is also true with MobileMe galleries and Facebook.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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loupiote (Old Skool) pro PRO says:

@Brenda Anderson

you mean with iPhoto sync'ed with facebook?

i don't know what iphoto developers were thinking... that's really not user-friendly to do that.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

They were thinking that if someone said "stop publishing this album to Facebook" that that person expects that the album will be removed from Facebook.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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loupiote (Old Skool) pro PRO says:

well, yes, but on flickr, there are many ways to keep your photos archived, while not publishing them.

e.g. they could be name private and added to a set to access them easily, etc.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Flickr Staff

zyrcster PRO says:

Hello,

Just an FYI, we've brought this issue to the attention of our friends at Apple.

Thanks.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

But in the context of iPhoto, "published" means uploaded/stored on the website. All of my iPhoto "synced" sets are published as "private" to start with. So, if it then tells me that my set will be "unpublished", shouldn't I assume that it is the opposite of uploaded? ie, deleted? Unpublishing doesn't mean 'make private' because I published them as private initially.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

Thanks zyrcster. There are several threads over in the Apple Discussions support forum about people getting caught out over their misunderstanding of how '2-way sync' works. Let's hope that Apple pays more attention to you folks than they seem to have so far.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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loupiote (Old Skool) pro PRO says:

So, if it then tells me that my set will be "unpublished", shouldn't I assume that it is the opposite of uploaded? ie, deleted?

well, to begin with, photos uploaded as "private" should not be labeled as "published", really.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

Yes, but my point is, they use that word everywhere in the app when they are referring to uploading the photos.

The dialog says:

"Do you want to publish "album name" to Flickr? This creates a "set" of photos in Brenda Anderson's Flickr Photostream. To use a different Flickr account, click Change Accounts.

Photos Viewable by: (only you, your friends and family, your friends, your family, everyone)
Photo size: (web, optimized, actual)

[Change account] [Cancel] [Publish]

So, the default "publish" status is Private.

It is clear that when Apple says "publish" they mean upload. So it's not a stretch to imagine that when they say "unpublish" they mean delete (and not simply, make private, or remove from the set but keep it published, etc.)

You could say that they should change the wording from unpublish to something else, like delete, to make it clearer. And perhaps they will.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Searcher PRO says:

"Unpublish" is the most unclear unword I've ever seen.

That's like dragging a disk to a trashcan and logically expecting to delete it, but instead seeing the disk just eject instead.

Oh. wait. This is Apple-Logic. nevermind.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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leyink says:

This is a really good example of Apple not understanding how people use flickr (or the Web in general).

How do you get the "unpublish" dialogue to appear? I can't reproduce the steps.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Brenda Anderson PRO says:

Hmm... I can't actually find "unpublish" as an actual dialog. I think when I first used the term above, it was my way of saying "stop publishing".

Anyway, here's what iPhoto's help says:

To stop publishing your photos to Flickr:
Select a published album in your Source list, and then press the Delete key.
Click Delete in the dialog that appears.
The album no longer appears on Flickr, but the photos remain in your photo library.
If you moved photos to this album from within Flickr, iPhoto asks if you want to import them to iPhoto. Only web-sized versions are imported.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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striatic PRO says:

what iPhoto help says doesn't really matter.

given the nature of the error, if understanding the nature of the situation requires reading iPhoto help of a flickr FAQ, no accidental deletions are going to be prevented, since those are the kinds of resources people use *after* encountering a problem.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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etherflyer PRO says:

What I don't understand (based entirely on these discussions) is why, if iPhoto doesn't sync your whole stream, but only particular 'linked sets', why a deletion on the iPhoto side isn't just deleting the picture from the set, rather than from the stream as a whole.


When I first upgraded to iPhoto 09, I read the blurb on how to sync pictures with Flickr, and it totally made sense to me — because that is the same way iPhoto syncs photos with anything: MobileMe accounts, iPods, etc.

If the same feature was available in Aperture (which is what I use for most photos rather than iPhoto, I'd be using it. I totally like the idea of being able to make changes on my computer and have the changes reflected on Flickr.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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Liam Daly says:

I recently deleted a load of stuff too, iPhoto & Flickr integration is rubbish it needs to be sorted asap.
Posted 98 months ago. ( permalink )

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romanroman says:

Reposting this here. Sounds like a lot of people are having accidental deletion issues, while I'm seeing something different/worse...

--
I'm having a bunch of pretty severe issues with my synced iPhoto sets. In a nutshell, iPhoto seems to get completely confused and either uploads a huge number of duplicates, or more vexing, re-uploads existing photos and deletes the originally uploaded ones. This happens both when uploading a brand new set and even when just clicking into an existing one.

Just did this now in fact on an older set of 201 photos I had. Click on the set it in iPhoto, and off it went to the races and ended up re-uploading 19 photos into the set, subsequently deleting the duplicate 19, also deleting any of the views or comments on those originals. There wasn't even anything new or changed on those 19.

This is driving me totally nuts. Anyone else running into this?
Posted 97 months ago. ( permalink )

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Walwyn PRO says:

Wouldn't you be better off asking somewhere that deals with iPhoto?

www.apple.com/support/iphoto/
Posted 97 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome PRO says:

Flickr has already stated that they are getting in touch with their neighbors in Cupertino, and I am sure it is helpful for Flickr to have more examples of unwelcome behavior as they work with the New Borg to resolve the issues. Flickr staff have redirected several threads here as the appropriate place to leave feedback.
Posted 97 months ago. ( permalink )

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ian crowther says:

did you look in iphoto trash can?
Posted 97 months ago. ( permalink )

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Purple Squirrel says:

This is an extremely stupid 'feature' the way it is implemented.
Posted 97 months ago. ( permalink )

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Jason Hutchens says:

Just happened to me too. The message you get when you delete a Flickr Album from iPhoto is ambiguous at best, but even worse is their usage of the word "publish". If it was called "sync your photos with Flickr", then, yes, I'd have realised my mistake sooner. But "publish your photos to Flickr" is another thing altogether. Publishing is a one-way street. You can defend it all you want, Brenda, but that doesn't make it better.
Posted 96 months ago. ( permalink )

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andyscamera says:

The use of the word "publish" likely comes from the programming world -- iPhoto is following the publish/subscribe design model, where one computer publishes something and another subscribes to view it. It's the same sort of thing as RSS feeds. The subscribers can only see the content as long as it remains being published.

Of course, as Jason points out, most people think of publishing like books and newspapers, where the published thing doesn't go away if you stop publishing. It's an uncharacteristically poor interface on Apple's part.

The language should be clearer at a minimum; ideally, the publish to Flickr option should work more like a "post to Flickr" function than a "sync with Flickr" option, because that's what everybody expects it to do anyway. Good design should work with the user rather than force them to adapt to a programming model.
Posted 96 months ago. ( permalink )

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jakerome PRO says:

I can see this being beyond maddening. I went to upload ONE video yesterday (which isn't really supported), and after clicking on the ambiguous confirmation screen, it started to upload the entire folder of 20,000 photos! I forced quit as soon as I could. and deleted the set of video thumbnails from Flickr. Then I realized that iPhoto would likely delete my originals (about 2 at this point). So I immediately unlinked the account. Absolutely maddening. I can easily imagine someone starting an upload of a single pic, instead uploading their entire library, then deleting the Flickr set only to discover that the iPhoto images have been destroyed.

It's madness. Another example of a Flickr partner royally screwing things up on their end. This never seems to happen with the unofficial tools, at least not for long.
Posted 96 months ago. ( permalink )

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