(1 to 100 of 475 replies)
elv0000 2:04pm, 12 November 2009
2.4GHz like the RF-602's and full high speed sync! what more could you want :-) (besides a Canon version - EDIT - Canon now available too)






myworld.ebay.com/pixelhk/

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(1 to 100 of 475 replies)
Jaroslav Moravec Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Jaroslav Moravec (member) 6 years ago
I just invested into RF 602. I predict another 900-replies-thread coming.

EDIT: I could not find any price - anyone? And it wont give you any faster sync above usual Xsync as Xsync is limited by the camera's shutter, not the radio trigger. But controlling ratios could be very nice for studio use, for example.
rudy__ Posted 6 years ago. Edited by rudy__ (member) 6 years ago
Product Info.:   TR-331 is using FSK 2.4GHz frequency channel, 15 specific channels .
Operating distance range is 65M or above.
The display is protected by coating; it’s not easy to get scratch.
LCD is showing “Channel”, “Battery life” and “Function mode”.
Multi-control is available.
Through the camera to send the data
Compatible with all Nikon DSLR cameras.
Compatible with Nikon SB-900, SB-800, SB-600, SB-400 flash gun.
Support all of the shutter speed, up to 1/8000 sec.
Available to use on the studio light through PC socket.
Transmitter stand-by time: 1000 hours above (CR2 lithium battery)
Receiver stand-by time: 400 hours above (CR2 lithium battery
MOD
alohadave 6 years ago
Could be interesting. Anyone want to buy 100 to try them out?
Blackcrow Photography 6 years ago
Anybody wanna buy a Canon? lmao
Acoustic_D 6 years ago
Damn I just ordered the RF-602s
LayerMask 6 years ago
..or 1/8000 could be electronic shutters only
& the other parameter could be wake-up. Still, interesting & it would be great to be wrong!
Dave Wilson Cumbria 6 years ago
Dammmmit...!! Nikon only?
I'm really really keen to see something cheaper than the ridiculously priced PW's for Canon.
kenkyee 6 years ago
sounds like iTTL to me...wow...this is pretty cool...if only I had Nikon gear :-P
MrDAT 6 years ago
Don't complain Canon people, Nikonians are still waiting for the PW TTL for Nikon.
Avec Lumière 6 years ago
canon already has PW flextt5...
Tron Høgvold 6 years ago
I don't really care about TTL, but high speed sync would be nice.
I'm glad you Nikon folks gets to test them first, so that the Canon version is released with all the needed improvements ;-)
Dennis Dixson Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Dennis Dixson (member) 6 years ago
I'm a little skeptical since I was also promised things like automatic wake-up from the RF-602 with my Nikon flash units.

Everybody seems really excited about controlling ratios from the camera and yes that does sound good but I usually have a ratio in mind when I start setting up. Fine tuning is usually a matter of repositioning the lights slightly rather than making sweeping changes in the power level settings.

They do look like they would be nice for the times when you are working solo.

I missed that bit about the minimum order of 100. I wonder how many duds there are per 100?
MOD
alohadave 6 years ago
I missed that bit about the minimum order of 100. I wonder how many duds there are per 100?

That's because they are selling to distributors, not directly to the public.
Just sent them an email re costs to buy, plans for other makes and how to get a set to evaluate. Let you know if I get a response
. : Jonathan Fiamor : . Posted 6 years ago. Edited by . : Jonathan Fiamor : . (member) 6 years ago
what does TTL adds?most people shoot manual anyway no ?
MrDAT Posted 6 years ago. Edited by MrDAT (member) 6 years ago
TTL allows laziness :)

I prefer manual as I control everything. :)

Well actually, with CLS, you can control the power levels from the camera.
W.G.W. 6 years ago
they will be on ebay and dealextreme soon enough.
mylhainen 6 years ago
Interesting product but damn they look cheap
dr.rece 6 years ago
Compatible with Nikon DSLR cameras and Nikon SB-900. SB-800,SB-600, SB-400 and studio light

TTL with sb-400???
fjgindy 6 years ago

Compatible with Nikon DSLR cameras and Nikon SB-900. SB-800,SB-600, SB-400 and studio light

TTL with sb-400???


The SB-400 is iTTL controlled. So yes TTL with the SB-400.

I agree. Interesting but cheap looking, especially the PC sync port. Reminds me of the first generation ebay triggers that broke just connecting the cable. But still...it's great to see this technology moving forward to more affordable costs. I'd like to see YongNuo make/distribute a version as their quality has been reasonably good the past few triggers.

Soon the Cybersync's/RP's etc are going to look like LaserDisc players of the early 90's. I love it...bring it on!
Tobi JM 6 years ago
I'd like to see an universally usable flash with integrated radio trigger and remote power settings. Just a small flash, Something like the Yongnuo YN-460 with integrated RF-602 and a transmitter like the Elinchrom Skyport. It has just a switch to choose groups and two buttons: Power up, Power down.

I'd probably buy a couple of them. Immediately.

Tobi
Wen tarepanda 6 years ago
I bought 1set directly from this company --- "Pixel Enterprise Limited". It is work very fine with my Nikon D700 and SB-900, AWESOME!!

Its not expensive, only US$200/set without shipping cost. But they only accept T/T payment, if they can allow paypal will be much better.
rebel_x_x 6 years ago
Here is the conversation I had with the distributor....

S J: Hi, I hav some questions about the TR 331 (2009-11-13 00:52:47)
heby zhu: yes ,what can I help you (2009-11-13 00:53:12)
S J: Thanks! How much is the retail price for a set of one trigger and three receivers? (2009-11-13 00:53:36)
heby zhu: where are you from (2009-11-13 00:54:19)
S J:
Australia (2009-11-13 00:54:25)
heby zhu: how many quantity you needed (2009-11-13 00:54:41)
S J:
Well I only need 3 receivers and 1 trigger for personal use (2009-11-13 00:55:00)
heby zhu: in this case we will sell it you as retail price (2009-11-13 00:55:44)
S J: what is the price ? (2009-11-13 00:56:05)
heby zhu: Full set include 1 transimitter and 1 receiver the price is 180USD, if you buy the receiver only the price will be 100USD/PCS (2009-11-13 00:57:20)
S J:
Thanks. When will you release a Canon version? (2009-11-13 00:57:57)
heby zhu: next month (2009-11-13 00:58:10)
S J: Thanks and good luck (2009-11-13 00:59:02)
rebel_x_x 6 years ago
Hey Wen tarepanda,

Are you afiliated with the company? ;)

If you are, it's ok, you can give us information. Please declare your conflicting interests first.

Thanks
I wonder if there is any chance these will work with the ill fated Nissin Di622. Apparently the firmware upgrade on this flash doesn't work with the RF-602 triggers, so, a TTL Cable is the only way to fire it without doing some type of modifying. If these work on a TTL basis, in theory, they should work with this flash. Problem is, the price is a bit too steep to just buy a set on the hope that it will work. Especially after purchasing 1T/X and 5 R/X's of the RF-602's, which are great for full manual flashes.
mylhainen 6 years ago
180 USD for a set of transmitter and 1 receiver.. Seems pretty steep price for an ebay trigger to me..
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
OK.

First. Declaration of conflict of interest.

We WILL be selling these in Europe. I won't discuss exact prices, but will say that prices will be lower than those quoted above.

The PC socket is screwlock.

They do support i-TTL, TTL and Manual.

As said above, the Canon version will ship in the New Year, or just before XMAS.

I am just checking trigger voltage safe limits. Range for me is about the same as the RF-602, ie. over 100m line of sight (I ran out of room at 200m).

I will hand a set over to someone reliable that is not affiliated to test and review.

Use the PM system to ask me questions rather than bombarding poor Heby. The you can post any answers here. Saves me butting in on your conversation that way.


Trev

Trev
iwolkow.de 6 years ago
Why is that every time I get a set of triggers those Chinese guys come with something newer and better like two weeks latter?))
Michael Stoop 6 years ago
This makes me almost excited for not having upgraded my cactus v4 to RF-602's yet :D
Seems like a very good alternative!
LayerMask 6 years ago
Trev, Sounds great - I was wrong.
As part of the testing please include accuracy. Increments should be 1/3 of a stop so the accuracy & repeatability needs to be 1/6 of a stop or better. Non-repeatable ITTL would be much worse than simple manual, even non-remote manual. Please keep us posted! Tx
kenkyee 6 years ago
What does "they support TTL" mean?
JrX Studio style control of a flash w/ the quench pin? If so I want a TX that works w/ Pentax gear! :-)
MrDAT 6 years ago
www.pixelhk.com/en/prolist.asp?c_id=322
"Wireless TTL Cord"

Wireless and has a cord? :)
duckgrabber Posted 6 years ago. Edited by duckgrabber (member) 6 years ago
Triggers can work at 200 meters? That's over 700 ft.. You've actually got them to reliably and repeatedly fire at that range? And, they can do Nikon iTTL? I might be interested in a dozen of them if they are reliable at 700+ ft. I want the range more than anything.


Kent in SD
CotswoldPhoto Posted 6 years ago. Edited by CotswoldPhoto (member) 6 years ago
Kent.

I am waiting for full production ones. I can get them to 'fire' at that distance. I will need to do a lot of testing before I make any claims over 60m. My camera is a D200 and I have used two SB-900's to test with so far.

You folk are way too impatient (chuckles at himself as also being the same). Pixel are a small startup company. For those of you in Europe, the likely cost will be around a hundred of the British folding stuff for a set, half that for extra Rx's.

As soon as I get the production versions, I could do with a suggested series of tests to throw at them, so feel free to PM me with suggestions (nothing rude or naughty - LOL).

As to reliably fire at 200m. I had the D200 pointing straight at the flash which was on a lightstand pointed at me. The Rx has a threaded mount so that screwed straight on to the top spigot and the SB-900 sat in the hot shoe. No misfires. If you want an idea of the distance, their is an image in my stream from ages ago of my front garden and a playing field beyond. The flash was in the top left near the building you can see. I paced it at about 200 paces (long steps).

As to 'wireless cord'. Give them a chance, that's just poor translation (LOL).


Trevor
kenkyee 6 years ago
Cotswold: I'm actually more interested in the new capabilities than range...i.e., how much of iTTL or TTL do they give you? Is it just an extension of iTTL? Do you need to put a master on the camera for it or does it fool the camera into thinking it's a commander? What exactly does TTL mean, etc. I'm sure most folks want this info as well.
I expect the range to be close to the RF602 which we all know is good already :-)
Dennis Dixson 6 years ago
I also had an email conversation with Heby. I guess he is the marketing department at Pixel and if that is the case he should be more than happy that people are contacting him.

At $180 US dollars I don't think I want to be the test monkey on these pre-production wireless flash triggers. Heby suggested that we should all just buy a couple of sets to test and then we will (of course) all want to order lots more.

Pixel appears to be a start-up company that is just getting started (at everything). A review sans the poor translation would be a good idea and the proper marketing strategy for them in this country. I would be happy to write a review but I'm not going to pay for pre-production units to do it. Too many questions, too little faith.
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
Dennis Dixson Heby's a girl ;-) Hehe
MrDAT 6 years ago
For $180 AND be a tester. No, sorry. People get paid or free copies for that.
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
MrDAT I hear you. I would think not many folk would be daft enough to take that punt. I would, because it's my business, so why not sit back and let someone else take the risk?
annavvvv 6 years ago
I'll wait for your test results Costwold, and then I'm coming to your store :)
to-mas 6 years ago
mr-volkoff says:

Why is that every time I get a set of triggers those Chinese guys come with something newer and better like two weeks latter?))

tell me :)
I recieived my RF 602 just 2weeks ago and didnt even used them :)
Dennis Dixson Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Dennis Dixson (member) 6 years ago
Thanks for correcting me Costwold, I usually manage to step on my tongue somehow. I might as well get it out of the way in a hurry. ;-)

I'm with kenkee, the features are what makes this product sound interesting. Most people already seem to agree that the 2.4GHz units can go a respectable distance and there are now several reasonably priced competing choices in that frequency range.

People don't buy products just on features anymore, they want to know details about how the product functions and performs when used for the application that they are interested in. Since it is your business I would expect nothing less than a glowing review; or in other words, all pro and no con. That's OK and I understand it but since I'm from Missouri and we have a little different standard of independent verification. It's called, "Show me."

Send Heby my regards. I'm looking forward to seeing these.

Obsessed With The Head
Skewp 6 years ago
@Dennis,

I've lived in MO for almost 30 years. My buddy and I have a low-key campaign going to change the slogan from the "Show Me State" to the "You Can't Tell Me Nuthin' State" ;)

Doug in KC
Dennis Dixson 6 years ago
Yes, that is often true but I'm thinking that you may actually need to start working on making that a national slogan instead. ;-)
LayerMask 6 years ago
@to-mas Hi, just have fun with your RF-602s like the rest of us. These look interesting, but if PW struggled so much with their TTL solution, I'm going to take a lot of convincing about these. Are they really going to deliver to within 1/6 of a stop all day long. Meanwhile our 602s 'just do what it says on the tin'.
to-mas 6 years ago
Thanks Layermask :)
I will keep on using my RFs,but looking forward to see review of this ones.As photojournalist I would welcome iTTL.But meanwhile I will keep scaring politicians with manual 1/8 power :).
MrDAT Posted 6 years ago. Edited by MrDAT (member) 6 years ago
Costwold, I would probably buy from you because you're selling the "RF-602 Nikon Flash Studio Trigger Set +3 more Rx's " kit for ~$121 usd.

aw man, they are 2.4ghz, maybe not :(
elv0000 6 years ago
I would just like to know the basics of how they work??!!

There is no shoe on the transmitter so there is no option for an on camera master. As much as I can guess you would have to control them through whatever options are available through the camera menu?

(which means for the Canon version only the 7D would have adjustments).

Main insterest really is do they do FP HSS?
and have a number of groups to set manual power levels?

Quote" LCD is showing channel, battery level and function mode" - what are the functions modes it has, can you adjust anything on the triggers?
MrDAT 6 years ago
Even with a hotshoe on the transmitter, how would the flash, lets say SB-800/900, would transmit back down to the hotshoe? Or is it possible?
to-mas 6 years ago
They put a picture of canon version on they site
www.pixelhk.com/en/proview.asp?P_ID=1575
But I cant imagine how would one set power,groups,ration etc on this.
dr.rece 6 years ago
@to-mas the E-TTL on the receiver looks photoshoped
Lola from SA Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Lola from SA (member) 6 years ago
Here's some pure speculation, for a bit of reverse engineering fun.

Based on the visual clues from the Canon/(Nikon?) trigger picture, as well as also assuming this solution does not rely on deciphering Canon and Nikon's proprietary transmission codes, just the ability to split the signals.

Note that there is an apparent 'Master' selection available on the RX unit.

This may mean that this is in part, purely an extension of the TTL cord (Wireless TTL cord?) and that the master flash is now available off camera. In other words there is no decoding done by the TX unit, the TX-RX relationship is pure replication.

The ability to select 'slave', but apparently not specific slave group, would seem to denote that the RX units can split the camera's original command between the master command signal portion and slave command signal portion.

All slave flashes in turn receive all of the slave command signal portion (minus the master signal portion)of the TTL transmission and respond to these commands as per their group setting. Or something along these lines.

Another simple possibilty is that the Master flash responds purely as if it was on camera, and therefore still has to be within line of sight of the slave flashes. However this would negate the need for slave receivers, and limit sales of RX units, so it doesn't appear as likely.
to-mas 6 years ago
Oh yeah, the imaga changed.
When I find it in the morning it was I-TTL and now is the photoshoped E-TTL :)

Lola
you made some points.

Anyway, we will see
LayerMask 6 years ago
@Lola Interesting thoughts.
There is another possibility - with Canon anyway - it's possible to send Canon Manual wireless slave power instructions separately from the trigger instruction. So, with old style PWs (that's old style) it has been possible for years to trigger - with RF - after remote (light based) Canon Wireless Manual power setting. After receiving their power instructions (light based), Ex units hold that power & wait for the next trigger signal. The trigger can be light based or RF based. (I recently worked out a way of using RF-602s to do this; 'Mixing in Time'.)
So maybe they have done the whole ETTL/Autoflash thing or maybe they have 'just' worked out how to send the power setting instructions by RF just before the trigger RF signal, ie the equivalent of Canon Manual Wireless but by RF (which would be good anyway).
miguelguti 6 years ago
i think these are way too expensive for its kind. well atleast for me. i might just go with RF-602's.
Lola from SA 6 years ago
@ Layermask

I think its a safe assumption that the same principle of operation will be deployed regardless of manufacturer. I would be sure excepting hotshoe contact arrangement for different manufacturers, this will be along the lines of what goes into the TX comes out of the RX. Or at least the selected portion of the initial TX is redirected in an un-modified state,

There would be too much work involved reverse engineering proprietary codes per manufacturer, for by all accounts a small company. Even so transmission delay time issues would probably exclude any decodeing and encodeing functionality. Miliseconds are lifetimes compared to optical transmission times.

These sound very much like hotshoe specific radiopoppers to me.

The early genuine radiopoppers, just picked up the EM pulses from the on camera flash, relayed them by RF, and converted them back to light at the RX end.

No en/decoding brains required, just fast message conversion to RF, transmission, and reconversion into light. That is why the radiopopper guys made claims along the lines of the technology being manufacturer independent.

And probably why these Pixel guys can predict a future Canon model with reasonable confidence.

After waiting. and waiting, and waiting, for Radiopoppers to cater for the rest of the world outside of the US/ Canada. I would be happy to see an alternative.
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
OK. One answer. Nissin Di622 yes on TTL and Manual.

I've posted some product images in my stream:

Kris This Is 6 years ago
Don't tease me man, give me the info!

Do these things work, should I start saving?!?!?!?!?
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
I can see these things being really popular with Wedding photogs who don't have the time to fiddle and chimp. I see no major advantage over the RF-602 for pure manual use. The plastic is better, they do have locking wheels. The Rx does use a screwlock PC sync port. But they use CR2 for the Rx (to keep moulding costs down, the Rx and Tx are very similar).
elv000

Humm I can use the 7D as a controller.?..+1 for the new early guy adopter .

And a least I don't have to put a prophylactic noise reduction tube on my flashes like the like PW. I just hate losing sensitivity

Wonder if these will extend my car door alarm though?

this one will be interesting to follow and PW and Jr will watching as well
Avec Lumière Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Avec Lumière (member) 6 years ago
: Thanks for the short review. Just want to confirm that:
1. It can do FP/HSS?
2. It allows manual power adjustment to individual flash from the camera?

If yes to #2, then it's a big advantage even for pure manual use since we don't have to walk back and forth to each flash to adjust their power individually (esp. for a flash that's mounted up high, etc.)
CotswoldPhoto Posted 6 years ago. Edited by CotswoldPhoto (member) 6 years ago
Creative Lightworks
1. FP/HSS. Assuming the flash can support it, yes, up to 1/8000 it says.
2. You can only control one group. From camera you can set the Flash exactly as if it were on top of the camera. What you won't get (as far as I can see) is the 2 way communication between flash and camera.

I have a really busy schedule for the next 2 weeks, so I can only dip in and out of this right now.

My advice? Wait a bit.
microbug_de 6 years ago
sounds good, looks good to, looking forward to get my hands on these:)
PicMax 6 years ago
It seems to be a wireless TTL extender, transmitting TTL signal over the 2.4GHz band. It seems to be only one-way though. I am not sure what it misses. The flash won't be able to tell the camera its color temperature but that is not very important in most cases.

The advantage over the simple trigger is that you can adjust the flash exposure compensation from the camera. This is also better than the Nikon Advanced Wireless Lighting for the longer range and reduced overhead but I don't see this as flexible as the AWL for multiple remote flashes.

Max
quackator2000 6 years ago
Radiopopper without the need to have a master on camera was
my first thought.

Who would want a flash on camera anyway?
to-mas Posted 6 years ago. Edited by to-mas (member) 6 years ago
quackator2000
Me :)
I would like to have one flash on camera and second on the side like with CLS.
So I wouldnt miss some PJ shot just because I put 2 flashes in the wrong corners :)
Lola from SA 6 years ago
If this purely replaces the TTL cord, the possibility exists that the off camera Master flash will still respond as if it's on camera.

IOW other slave groups can still be controlled by conventional line of sight.
Possibly the slave setting on the RX is just a conventional RF-602 remote trigger.
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
The Rx has a Master, Slave and Manual setting.

The system can only control one group at a time and cannot do 'All groups' like the RF-602 can.

If using TTL, ONE flash must be set to Master. All others must be set to either slave or Manual. You do this on the Rx via the Control Panel.

As an aside, Pixel have tested this unit with all the i-TTL flashes they could lay their hands on, and so have only tested the shoe voltage to those flashes (approx 6V max). No testing has been done at higher trigger voltages.
elv0000 Posted 6 years ago. Edited by elv0000 (member) 6 years ago
Can you set one flash to master though and have that fire other slaves by IR?

This is what we do now with a long shoe cord, and gang a few flashes together, one is master the others slaved by IR, all with high speed sync and controlled from the camera menu. This would be brilliant if it removes that shoe cord!!

(Theres no IR issues with that by the way because the flashes are right beside each other they always fire)
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
elv0000 Apparently yes. You put the Rx under the Master, and it acts exactly the same as if it were on the camera hotshoe. In effect, the set replaces the wire, and the Master flash can then use CLS to fire other flashes. OR, you can use more Rx's and do away with line of sight IR CLS entirely. The master flash cannot communicate back to the camera of course.
quackator2000 6 years ago
Sounds good. I guess I'll invest in some guinea-pigging when the Canon version is available from you. Still will buy a few more RF-602 - they are so damn brilliant......
Avec Lumière Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Avec Lumière (member) 6 years ago
:
If using TTL, ONE flash must be set to Master. All others must be set to either slave or Manual. You do this on the Rx via the Control Panel.

Does it mean that, in TTL mode, the "Master" flash triggers the others optically? If not, why the restriction (why can't all be set to slave and/or manual)?
WillieJr 6 years ago
cgi.ebay.com/Flash-gun-TTL-Trigger-TR-331-for-Nikon_W0QQi...

Pixel is now selling them on EBAY for $138.00 for the Nikon ones. Canon ones will come out in a couple weeks according to Pixel rep.
Lola from SA Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Lola from SA (member) 6 years ago
@wilmanjr

Not technically correct to say Pixel are selling these at $138.

$138 = auction start price, not BIN price.

And with a zero feedback score, Pixel haven't completed a single transaction yet.

The lack of a "Buy it now" may indeed be due Ebay inexperience and is possibly not Pixel's intention, but this listing is framed as a single item up for auction.

Better to email the seller and request a BIN price, or request that they adjust their listing. This would be preferable, rather that chasing up the price in an auction. Pixel obviously has more than one unit for sale, and this would seem to indicate the minimum acceptable price point to them

At least through ebay Pixel has made payment by Paypal an option.
Avec Lumière 6 years ago
I think if Pixel has a business type account then they should be able to do BIN without prior transaction history. So looks like it's a personal account.

Unless they just want to see how much people are willing to pay for it.
W.G.W. 6 years ago
If $138 is the bare minimum they are willing to take for them, i dont think there are going be be many sales. Thats pretty much in used st-e2 territory. I would much rather have a st-e2 and work around its line of sight issue for the same money.
Bluemonkey08 6 years ago
For the photogs please correct me if I am wrong.

This is for a 2 flash units set up where flashes are off camera, opposite each other and subject is in between.

So in ittl FP mode,
You could supposedly fire say 2 flashes off at xsync speed (eg 1/2000).
You cannot adjust ratios here even by moving flash units further or nearer to subject because of the ittl bit.

In Manual FP mode,
you can fire both flashes in sync to say 1/2000. But here each flash is firing at a different flash ratio eg 1/16 for the left unit as fill, and 1/2 for the right unit as main.

And technically you could control these by CLS from onboard camera flash if using nikon speedlights / Metz 58AF-1. Setting the left flash on say GrpA,Channel 1, and right flash on GrpA, Channel 2.


Am I correct then what elv0000 and cotswold said above means you set a TX on camera to control the Rx with a master flash eg SB-800/900/Metz58 With this you can control the power/ratio of this master flash from the camera and at the same time fire in sync with camera's shutter speed setting.
That master flash should then also fire the other unit by CLS (only in sync but not ittl) because the slave would have to have a ratio set manually.
This also means that the slave have to be in line of site with the master.

=> only need one Tx and 1 Rx

If you want the units to go off out of sight of each other but still in FP mode, then you will need 1 Tx and multiple Rx for each flash,
Potentially controlling power to one flash (main?) and the other out of sight flash will still have to have it's ratio manually set.?
Avec Lumière Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Avec Lumière (member) 6 years ago
I believe the onboard camera flash can only control flash units that are set to the same channel in a group, i.e. if you have 2 units in GrpA then they both must be set to the same channel number of GrpA (both set channel 1 of GrpA). So theoreticaly you could have 10 units in GrpA but they all have to be set to the same channel number. This configuration is to allow other photogs to use different channel numbers (of the same group/GrpA).

If you want to control two flash units independently then they must be set in two different groups, i.e. GrpA Ch1 and GrpB Ch1 (the channel numbers are unimportant as long as they are in different groups).
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
and others.

The Rx unit that is set to Master sends onward signals to those set as slave. Not by optical but as radio signals. So, an Rx in Master mode is both receive and send = Potential to extend range????

Second, the Tx whether it is a Canon or Nikon version, will control either a Nikon or Canon receiver. So, if you have a 5D, a 580 and an SB800, all can work. Of course, e-ttl won't work with the SB-800 in this instance, but it can still be set to manual and work.
Avec Lumière Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Avec Lumière (member) 6 years ago
: Gotcha. That sounds good.

I usually set the power of each individual flash units manually to get their exact ratio. Can I still do this manual power setting and operate in FP/HSS mode with radio signals (not optical)? If yes, how? I know that FP/HSS works only in TTL but I want to retain full control of the flash power ratio myself. It's awesome if this is possible. Many, many thanks for your effort!
elv0000 6 years ago
Haaaang on a second !!!

So you could effectively -
- put a transmitter on the camera hotshoe,
- have a master flash on a stroboframe bracket right above that with receiver set to master
- and use that master through radio to fire the slaves on more receivers right?

Please tell me if you set that master to fire different groups the slaves will respond if also set to coresponding different groups?!!

That would be sweet!

Otherwise I can't understand why they would go to the incredible complexity of remote master/slave? Unless you can actualy control that master from a Nikon camera menu.

Can you actually Control all the master funtions of a flash normaly on the hotshoe from a Nikon camera menu by any chance?
CotswoldPhoto 6 years ago
Creative Lightworks wrote
I usually set the power of each individual flash units manually to get their exact ratio. Can I still do this manual power setting and operate in FP/HSS mode with radio signals (not optical)? If yes, how? I know that FP/HSS works only in TTL but I want to retain full control of the flash power ratio myself. It's awesome if this is possible. Many, many thanks for your effort!

As I understand it (and you are talking of prodigious Homer-like powers of thought here, LOL), you get exactly the same functionality as if you had a Master capable flash sat on the camera firing slaves. Except the master flash can be anywhere (even on a bracket - maybe stroboframe type - right at your elbow, so to speak).

You can still set the slave flashes as usual, including any power adjustments, as you would if you were using optical firing.

elv0000 wrote
So you could effectively -
- put a transmitter on the camera hotshoe,
- have a master flash on a stroboframe bracket right above that with receiver set to master
- and use that master through radio to fire the slaves on more receivers right?

Yes.

elv0000 wrote
Please tell me if you set that master to fire different groups the slaves will respond if also set to coresponding different groups?!!

The system has to be set on one channel only. I suppose that if you had slaves all over on different channels, and the camera and master flash are next to you, you could switch channels on those 2 and the appropriate group of slaves would then be triggered. The manuakl says to power off the camera and flash whilst changing settings, and I cannot see it being so easy to change the setting with the camera in the Rx hotshoe. The channel change buttons are quite close to the hotshoe.

elv0000 wrote
Unless you can actualy control that master from a Nikon camera menu.

Can you actually Control all the master funtions of a flash normaly on the hotshoe from a Nikon camera menu by any chance?

Not that I know of, but I am used to using my flashes in manual, so this is going to be an all new experience for me.
elv0000 Posted 6 years ago. Edited by elv0000 (member) 6 years ago
@ Cotswold - Thanks, I didn't mean trigger channels though, I mean flash groups on the master flash.

Basicaly what you just said -

"you get exactly the same functionality as if you had a Master capable flash sat on the camera firing slaves"

Can you then use the master flash as you normaly would to control the other flashes on different "groups" a/b/c etc set on the master flash (not changing anything on the triggers)?


If it can this is big! you'd have full remote control from the camera, and close to a complete substitute for the IR/optic system! (just requires a master flash on camera so to speak).

If not, the mystery of the purpose of remote master/flash continues .....

Is there much useful information in the manual?
Avec Lumière 6 years ago
Cotswold: many thanks to the reply. Sounds like it cannot do what I want to do (manually adjust all flash units while in FP/HSS) since it requires all flash units to be in the "Master" mode. I don't see how it is possible to adjust the power manually in "slave" mode. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
elv0000 6 years ago
@ Creative - on Canon flashes you can set the manul power settings with full FP HSS in master or slave mode no problems .

I've not heard of any difference with Nikon in that area, so I dought thats a problem.
Dennis Dixson Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Dennis Dixson (member) 6 years ago
After reading all that I still have no idea what these things can do.

First you need to separate the Nikon camp from the Canon camp. I'm a Nikon guy and I really don't know anything about Canon flash units other than they apparently put out a lot of RF interference.

Next we need a real review (by someone other than a potential product distributer) instead of a debate among photographers who have never actually seen these remotes and that is if they really exist, which I am beginning to doubt.

And before you break out the pitchforks and torches, I would love to be wrong but I'm usually sad to learn that I am not.
Avec Lumière Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Avec Lumière (member) 6 years ago
@elv000: I might be wrong, but on SB800 I don't think you can adjust the power manually once you set it to "Remote" mode (which I believe the iTTL slave mode). Manual power adjustment is only available in Master or SU-4 mode (SU-4 is standard optical trigger, i.e. non iTTL/no FP/HSS).

Someone more familiar with Nikon CLS/SB800 might correct me on this...
brownie114 6 years ago
Well, once you set the SB to "remote" mode then all adjustments, whether they are manual or not, are made from the Master or Commander device. So yeah, you can adjust a remote flash manually, you just do it from the master.
elv0000 Posted 6 years ago. Edited by elv0000 (member) 6 years ago
@ Dennis - They are available for sale now -

cgi.ebay.com/Flash-gun-TTL-Trigger-TR-331-for-Nikon_W0QQi...

Cotswold is the only one so far with first hand experience.

I would harass them for a samle but I dont have Nikon gear or enough experience with it. Canon is not available yet.
Dennis Dixson Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Dennis Dixson (member) 6 years ago
I'm working on getting a set to test with Nikon gear. I'm still not sure these are production units but then I'm not really sure about anything. ;-)

cgi.ebay.com/Flash-gun-TTL-Trigger-TR-331-for-Nikon_W0QQi...
Sergiu Bacioiu 6 years ago
I read almost 90 replies on this topic and i am missing some details.

If I use a Nikon body, a flash on the camera as Master and two remote flashes, I can control the remote flashes from the on camera Master.

If I replace the on Camera Master with the TR-331 Transmitter and put all the receivers and flashes in Remote Mode, I will control the power from the camera menu?

If I put one receiver on Master and the flash on master mode, now I will control the power of the other flashes from that flash, even the flash is off camera?
brettmaxwell 6 years ago
If it does HSS and functions simply as a TTL cable I will buy a set the minute a Canon version is available. I'll keep my Cybersyncs for many uses, but these would be very nice for some specific uses.
brettmaxwell 6 years ago
Wow, these people are making a whole bunch of interesting things, like a wireless liveview viewer/controller: www.pixelhk.com/en/proview.asp?P_ID=1543

And what do you suppose this does? www.pixelhk.com/en/proview.asp?P_ID=1544
gwapo_si_matthew 6 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong...

Camera w/ TX
1pc SB-800 mounted on RX
1pc SB-900 mounted on RX

Can I manually adjust the power output of the SB-800 and SB-900 individually and in-camera, just like how I set manual power levels in CLS?

Camera w/ TX
1pcs SB-900 mounted on RX

1. Is this setup similar to having an ultra-long TTL Cable?
2. If yes, I can control other slave flashes that support i-TTL via IR (line of sight), right?

Now since it is mentioned only camera to flash data is sent, no flash to camera, does it mean that for the Canon system, it is not possible to adjust, say a 580 EX II, remotely in camera? Or does the Tx tell the camera that a 580 EX II is mounted so that the in-camera flash controls can be accessed?
elv0000 6 years ago
I have the instruction manual but they don't want me to upload it, theres not much insight into all the things we'd like to know though unfortunately.

As far as control from the camera menu all it says is -

[I-TTL ]capabilities support various parameters through the camera flash setting, including exposure compensation, FV lock, anti red-eye reduction flash mode / anti-red-eye reduction slow sync, rear-curtain flash sync, set the ISO sensitivity, power zoom functions and so on.
Avec Lumière Posted 6 years ago. Edited by Avec Lumière (member) 6 years ago
@elv0000: I also received the PDF, and I believe it does operate as a "wireless iTTL cable". Which means that in iTTL mode, like you said, you use one flash as a master on the first receiver to control all the other slaves like you normaly would with a master on camera (adjusting through the flash menu) but with radio signal now instead of optic.

You control other functions (shutter speed, FV lock, etc.) through camera menu but not "CLS" specific functions, i.e. adjusting flash power, TTL compensation, etc. All CLS specific functions must be performed through the master flash on the receiver, which is now operating as the Commander for all other flash units. In other words, you cannot use your camera in Commander mode, which makes sense since you need the built-in flash for this operation and you cannot pop-up the built-in flash once the transmitter is mounted. Also, since it is compatible with all Nikon DSLR, it must also be compatible with camera bodies that don't have Commander mode.

Now keep in mind that my understanding came from reading their manual which is written in "rough" (very rough actually) English. So I could be wrong until I test them myself.

A very interesting section is actually on page 23:
3. When the selected cursor in the place of [M] as shown, TR-331RX entered into the manual high-speed synchronous flash function. This setting must be the same with the TR-331TX transmitter.
* [M] feature supports TR-331RX receiver control studio flash lights through PC socket or control other brands flash through hot shoe accessories.
* [M] feature supports for the camera shutter sync speed up to 1/8000s.
* [M] feature supports for a variety of camera shooting mode.


This to me sounds like you could use HSS mode when operating in full manual (not iTTL). But, theoretically, since HSS works only in iTTL, I think it could simply mean that the trigger is capable of sync-ing up to 1/8000s.

Anyway, if it works as it says, then I think this is an excellent flash trigger system.
MOD
alohadave Posted 6 years ago. Edited by alohadave (moderator) 6 years ago
That's a really neat idea. About time someone came up with something like that.

Edit: The first one, the second one isn't really clear to me what it does.
gwapo_si_matthew 6 years ago
I hope these also work for 3rd party flashes that are either iTTL or ETTL compatible like Metz and Sigma.
michaelchaint 6 years ago
Yes it works with 3rd Party TTL Flash, tested with Tumax and Metz.
I have one trans and one rec,waiting for extra rec now.
scubajunkie Posted 6 years ago. Edited by scubajunkie (member) 6 years ago
PiXeL has a lot of interesting things listed under products, but I have to wonder how many are implemented and how many are planned. For some items, all they have are pictures, no description other than the title. They also list Canon and Sony versions of these remotes but currently ebay and alibaba only list the Nikon version.
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