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strobist PRO 9:30pm, 17 June 2007
Article goes up Monday. Any subsequent questions, answers or discussion goes here.
Swansea Photographer 10 years ago
first post ;-)
AIA GUY..Rwood PRO 10 years ago
Chomping at the bit to get started!!!
Alan Gage PRO 10 years ago
Sure, I've had over a month of free time while traveling and now that I have to actually do real work next week you put up the first assignment. Oh well, I'm sure I can shake loose some free time and after this coming week I'll have a couple more weeks with no work and all fun.

Alan
www.alangage.blogspot.com
MOD
carlos.benjamin 10 years ago
tfrancis - Whaddaya think this is? Flashdot?
Nobrakes15 10 years ago
Hey David I Emailed you about the Gel packs you wrote about. if it got lost in the tons of emails you get, let me know and I'll send it again.

Jeff
MOD
Nionyn_ PRO 10 years ago
1.1 is up...
And we're off!
:-)
Nionyn
cosmicnights 10 years ago
I don't understand the method of changing the aperature to adjust the flash. This changes the entire exposure within the frame. Why not just say adjust the flash only? Is it because in this example ambient light was of not concern?
I still can't let go of the light meter. I need a start point.
admin
strobist PRO 10 years ago
This exposure is based on flash alone.

If your test shot is too dark, just open up your aperture. If it is too light, close down. Since we are not concerned about a specific depth of field, it is quicker and easier to do this than to dial down the flash.
a°j° [deleted] 10 years ago
dalinian2000 -- just to add, don't worry about the light meter (ignore it!) -- if you shoot a test shot without the flash, it should pretty much be black (ie. you have killed the ambient light because there isn't enough for iso200 1/250sec f/8), so changing your f/stop a bit isn't going to make much (or any noticeable) difference to the ambient, but will fine-tune the amount of flash coming through - as strobist said, easier/quicker than dialing up/down the flash or moving the flash back and forth
hope that helps
it does take some getting used to "shooting in the dark" as it were, and ignoring your "ambient" lighting meter - just think for this task: there is no ambient light (I killed it!), just flash light (and I will control it)
cosmicnights 10 years ago
Yeah, I was hoping it was about flash alone situations. It makes more sense.
pferdefotografie [deleted] 10 years ago
I would bet 5$ that there will be a post further down the road about balancing ambient with flash, which will clear this issue :-)
GarethDix 10 years ago
I'm so glad I went to the seminar... I feel like I have a cheat sheet on what's going on :)
admin
strobist PRO 10 years ago
pfer-

You would win 5$.

Cham-

And I am doing this one in shorts, too...
MOD
carlos.benjamin 10 years ago
I'd bet a considerably larger sum that there's already a post in lighting 101 that covers balancing flash and ambient.......
dave.nandes [deleted] 10 years ago
Seeing as this topic is position, I highly recommend watching this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeR9_7cACUc

WARNING: Video is off topic and has been posted purely as a play on words.
lisabelle01 10 years ago
I am new to Strobist. Prior to finding this forum I hated flash, namely because I can't seem to use it properly. I am going to give it a go this summer with Lighting 102. My question for this lesson is: When you put the strobe (off camera) at 45 degrees to the subject, how high do you lift the strobe on the light stand? Is it at the same height as your subject? Is it higher? If so, how much higher?
dewaynec 10 years ago
When you say to start with your flash at 1/16th power, is that the same as -4 flash compensation? 1/2 = -1, 1/4 = -2, 1/8 = -3, etc.?
admin
strobist PRO 10 years ago
Lisa-

A little higher than your subject will be fine. But for the purposes of this exercise, that is not critical at all.

Dewaynec-

You got it. Exposure should be close enough to fine tune from there.
very1silent PRO 10 years ago
lisabelle01: The height you place the light at depends on the visual effect you want to achieve. You'll get different highlights and shadows depending on the relative heights of your subject and your light.

A light at the same height as the subject will give you shadows which go almost entirely to one side. A light otherwise in the same position, but high up, will give you shadows which are largely underneath the subject, and only a little bit to one side.
lisabelle01 10 years ago
I am using a Sigma EF-500 DG ST P-TTL Shoe Mount Flash (Guide No. 165'/50 m at 105mm) strobe. If you are using manual the only options you have are ML (which I think is half power) and MH (full power). The guide number changes depending on the lens you are using. The Position lesson for today says start of at 1/16th power at about 5ft away from subject. This is a dumb question I know (please forgive me I am a newbie), but with ML and MH as my only options, how flexible is this flash? Is there a way to make it use only 1/16th power?
DaytonPhotog 10 years ago
If you move the flash further from the subject, the light it gets will be reduced.

There's even a math formula to determine how far it is, but I don't have it memorized.

The amount of light reaching the subject drops quickly, though. It's about 4 to 1 (if any memory cells are working.)

Happy experimenting!
Willliam Lewis 10 years ago
Hi Guys, I am worried about missing an assignments, Dave when you say the project goes up Monday is that on the main strobist blog? Living in the UK are we behind everyone else. Can someone take a few moments to explain this please.

Many thanks John
msknight 10 years ago
lisabelle, probably gels could be considered as stops between the two power modes. A bit more of a faff than buying a new strobe, however. You can also compensate with your aperture a bit.

Also, here is a shortened version of my little test run of angles - shutter-fug.blogspot.com/2007/06/lighting-102-unit-11-pos...
oldwhitey 10 years ago
Hey guys, I think you're being way too technical. The intent seems to be; what does the subject look like when being lit from different positions. Even the positions aren't that important, only that they are different. Where are the shadows and what does it look like. Just make sure they are properly exposed.

Just my opinion.
MOD
carlos.benjamin 10 years ago
William - Whenever you see a topic here on flickr you can check the blog for the actual article, or you could just do like most of us and refresh the blog every 10 minutes........ I mean, every few days.
admin
strobist PRO 10 years ago
Lisabelle-

You can also knock that power down manually in front of the flash.

Set it on half power. Cover about half of the lens with cardboard (have a small air space in between) and it will be at 1/4 total output. Cover half the remaining area = 1/8, etc.

You can do the same thing with neutral density gels.
admin
strobist PRO 10 years ago
William/John-


They will go up once a week, on or about Monday. If you hire me to work full time for you, you can control the timing exactly... :)

-D
pferdefotografie [deleted] 10 years ago
Lisa,

Well I guess your question about the height of the flash in relation to the subject is exactly the goal of this assignment!
shoot it in diffrent heights, and find out what it looks like from these heights! where the shadows fall, what is pleasing to you etc! this is about experimentation, and seeing the effect the position of the light has!

so put it wherever you want, and have fun!
MOD
Sean McCormack Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Sean McCormack (moderator) 10 years ago
One thing that is key here is looking at your subject from the strobe position. This in itself is a big thing about the post no one seems to be getting.. If you look at where your flash is facing, then you know exactly where the shadows will fall. It's easy to move the lamp around and guess where they will be from camera position, but you can be certain by looking from the flash position.
Mikko Reinikainen 10 years ago
Replace the cardboard with your fingers, and you have digital control over the flash output.
Clint Eckhardt 10 years ago
mtreinik-- digital... ok, this made me chuckle at 4:30 in the morning while I'm waiting for the 10 month old to fall back asleep...

Thanks!
posredstven [deleted] Posted 10 years ago. Edited by posredstven (member) 10 years ago
How long does it usually take for a photo to show up via the tag search after you upload it? I tried uploading one (here) but it seems to be taking a very long time to appear. I can see lots of other photos via the query that David posted.

Edit: I can find the picture when I search my photos with the same tags, so presumably it's tagged correctly. It doesn't show up when I search everyone's photos though.
zoetrope 10 years ago
mtreinik, that was a pretty good one.

Ok folks, let's see some pictures!
dcumminsusa PRO 10 years ago
posredstven I think this goes back to the issue where if you have a new account you must have 5 or more photos in your stream before they show up in groups, searches, etc. (It might be more than 5 photos, I can't remember). In any case Flickr told you about this stuff when you signed up for your account (it was in all the mumbo jumbo you just clicked through. :-D ).
posredstven [deleted] 10 years ago
Thanks for the suggestion. I uploaded a few more photos to bring the total number up to ten; hopefully that will do the trick.
doy004 Posted 10 years ago. Edited by doy004 (member) 10 years ago
posredstven, did you figure out your problem? I'm having the same issue of my picture not showing up in the search results even though I've tagged it properly (I think). Its here. I've uploaded 10 pictures total, but still don't see it.
posredstven [deleted] 10 years ago
Nope, no luck yet. It looks like there are some others who have small numbers of photos and that do show up (e.g., pinecreekboy with 7). So it's got to be something more than just the number of photos you have. The FAQ doesn't seem very helpful here, saying only that
There are a variety of reasons why your photos might not be showing up, but in most instances the issue should resolve itself within 24 - 48 hours.
I'm not sure what to do at the moment other than wait.
ARBisgrove 10 years ago
posredstven, when you have uploaded 5 photos the flicker staff then look at your account to check it is "safe". This takes a little while, like 5 days or so. If you click in "your account" in the "you" menu, it will tell you if your account is still pending. It took me ages to realise this a few weeks ago...
ironlungparis Posted 10 years ago. Edited by ironlungparis (member) 10 years ago
posredstven,

Really basic question here (apologies in advance!) but have you also taken the step to click on the little Send to Group button on top of each photo in your library?

When I first started with the flickr strobist group I got the tagging down right away but failed to Send to Group so perhaps you are having the same issue...hope so cause its an easy one to solve! :)
MOD
carlos.benjamin 10 years ago
Send to group has no bearing on the photos showing up in a tag search.
posredstven [deleted] 10 years ago
Hmm. I don't see anything about the account being pending under "your account". But I didn't have five photos until today, so I'll just sit on it a bit and see what happens.
posredstven [deleted] 10 years ago
Patience is a virtue; it's working now. Thanks for all the suggestions. It seems that adding a sufficient number of pictures to your account and then waiting a bit is all that is required.
FlatBackFour 10 years ago
A wee question for any Nikon CLS experts out there. I've just set up my D80 in Commander mode with the on camera flash set to -- (ie. off). The camera was set to fire my SB800 at 1/16 power. What intrigues me is that there is still a flash from the on camera flash. Experimentation seems to show that this is very low level. I turned my SB800 off and the flash from the camera didn't seem to illuminate anything. It just doesn't look so insignificant to my eye. Is this normal and this flash is just the control signal?? Cheers...
craig mcmaster 10 years ago
FlatBackFour: ya the on camera flash is the control for the main flash and doesn't contribute to the exposure ( unless your VERY close to the subject ).
Rafa Barbera 10 years ago
How about the *other* angle? David talk about flash to subject and camera to subject directions. But once you have fixed the flash position, you can play with the aim direction of the flash. You can feather the flash, not for smothering it, because we are working with a very short light decay by now, but for alter the amount of light that can reach the background.

I have tried to show this.... perhaps I need to put the model nearer to the background, but I think that this is enough to show the potential of this *other* angle

L102 Unit 1.1: Feathering of light
Capture360 10 years ago
flatbackfour

This is just the flash signal and will not add to the exposure unless your subject is really close to the cam.
Mariano Kamp 10 years ago
Regaring CLS: My understanding is that the signaling flash is a pre-flash, i.e. it is over before the shutter opens. If this is true, then it is not part of the exposure even when being VERY close to the subject.

Did I get something wrong here?
John Groseclose (photographybanned.com) [deleted] 10 years ago
From my observations, the pre-flash can still show up.

A strobe doesn't have a square signature to the wave if you graph it - they fade slower than they brighten, so you might still pick up the tail end of the fade when the strobe finishes the pre-flash.
max987456 10 years ago
Yup - the CLS triggering preflash does still show up. You won't see it too much unless you're close to the subject, but you will see an extra catch/highlight in the shot.

Take a picture of yourself shooting into a mirror if you want to see how much preflash is left when the shutter opens..
aparmley PRO 10 years ago
I can confirm max987456's remarks re: the preflash - It drove me absolutely crazy after getting the D80 - It shows up for sure!
FlatBackFour 10 years ago
Thanks for your help everyone. I was under the impression that if you are not using TTL which I am not there would be no pre flash?? I have the SB800 set for manual 1/16th controlled by the D80 in commander mode. I thought pre flash was just for exposure. Intriguing...
Autumn Colours 10 years ago
@FlatBackFour

I have the D80 and an SB-600 and found CLS to be great until i bought a Centon flash with an optical trigger. When I used both flashes the Centon's light didn't appear in the photos because it fired during the D80's pre-flash and not during the main burst from the SB-600.

Having read up on various web sites I discovered that the receiver on the SB-600 is infra-red and only needs the IR part of the D80's pre-flash to get the signals. I also found that the processed leader part of a colour negative strip (i.e. the black part) makes a good IR filter. So I made a filter for the D80's pop-up flash which eliminates its reflected light from my shots. Take a look at my set for more. Hope this helps.
DSC_5246
GarethDix 10 years ago
you could always point the flash up/to the side and stick a gobo on it to stop the catchlight in the eyes from the on-camera flash
FlatBackFour 10 years ago
SonicAl,
Thanks for that, I've been looking further into this and saw a similar setup to yours somewhere else. Great solution. I also discovered that Nikon make a thing called an SG 3IR (that's eye R not thirty one). It sits on the hot shoe and dangles a filter in front of the flash!! Yours will definitely be cheaper :-)

Cheers
Autumn Colours 10 years ago
It certainly was cheap - all the bits were around the house - though it's not the most professional looking device !
I tried it in the house and it was firing the SB-600 at about 15 metres so doesn't seem to restrict the CLS range at all. Plus it means I can use my £20 Centon flash without it going off early and I can put off buying Pocketwizards for a while longer :o)
kc kong 10 years ago
That's very clever SonicAl - I'll definitely make one for my D80 too. Btw, noticed your gel holder too ... what sort of material did you use for that? I reckon it's got to be stiff enough so that the gel "compartment" will stay in place & not open up.
chrisatlee 10 years ago
Things I learned on this assignment...

I don't hold my camera level :P

Autumn Colours 10 years ago
@kc Kong - it's some A4 plastic covers we have at work for binding reports. Your local craft shop or stationery shop should have something similar. It is fairly stiff and the folds keep their shape.
jim.stewart 10 years ago
I can't wait for Monday already.

Not that I'm impatient, it's just that, well, I'm impatient. :)

I feel this need to cram as much into my head as possible, and that I could never ever learn this stuff quick enough.

Sigh.

And so it's Friday, and here I'm hoping for Monday.
SpieleHolger 10 years ago
Can anyone see my two pictures (with the bear) I've uploaded?
I've got them the tags but can't find them per tag search. But I see them here.
eikonspark 10 years ago
There's not many artistic images , why don't you give them images some creativity?
Here's the image I've made using just one flash placed above, and at a little angle, also paced a cardboard snoot. Photoshop to increase contrast. Wa da ya think?
farm2.static.flickr.com/1283/605253062_bfc4fae214.jpg
Dave Schlier PRO 10 years ago
I think the point is to learn the flash - both from the camera's POV and the flashes POV so visualizing the flash comes easier. I was struck by the photos I took at the flashes POV - what the flash sees, the flash lights. I aways bend the light in my mind. But, light doesn't bend. It's a simple concept that's taken me a looong time to figure out. Just for that, thanks a million!
EuropeanDesperado 10 years ago
I only tried this first exercise and I already discovered some great new things (not so much about just the angle, but about making my studio flashes smaller & about putting them behind the model). Love it. If I learn this much every week, what a progress I'll have by the end of summer.

(Result after adding some light)

By the way - the exercises are on my profile too.
veronica.lynne 10 years ago
I tried to use the original settings of ISO at 200, f/5.6... but WOW. Maybe I'm just not used to the intensity of the Vivitar flash. My God, all I got was a bright flash of light. I couldn't see anything but white!

I had to play quite a bit and eventually got some pictures I could feel fairly good about showing with f/32 and -2EV while still using the ISO of 200. Additionally, even though this lesson was not about diffusers, I had to do something to lesson that intensity so I put on the wide angle lens card and this helped to spread the light a little.

I think I'm having more difficulty with hardware than anything else. But I'm gonna get it.

lighting 102 | assignment-1.1

veronica lynne
chromaticsoul.com
chromaticsoul.wordpress.com
zmaerdstyle 10 years ago
What about our white balance setting during all of this? Wouldn't AWB, if used, change things along the way?
lentedorafa 10 years ago
It didn´t change anything for me... Not that I noticed anyway.

But I used straight 1/250 killing all the ambient light.
Thiago Sanna F. Silva Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Thiago Sanna F. Silva (member) 10 years ago
Hurrah! Finally got my Strobist kit, and now I can go and do the exercises properly. Which means yes, I will bump the threads up as I do them. This is what I got for this exercise:

Strobist Lighting 102 1.1 - Angle

A description and some comments and thoughts are provided on the photo page, but two things that I wanted to mention are:

1) It makes a lot of difference having a person as a subject. I did this exercise before with a stuffed animal, and it's just not the same. So if you're still going to do this, do use a real person.

2) Don't set up your light stand on the bed then sit on it...it WILL topple over :D

Cheers!
figment_ PRO 9 years ago
Wow, this thread is dusty! Sorry so late...I'm waaaaay behind here and just figured out how to post my attempts:

Yoda 1

Yoda Portrait

Yoda 3
blxmmm Posted 8 years ago. Edited by blxmmm (member) 8 years ago
102 is still alive ;)

jessi1924 8 years ago
I might get in trouble for posting this waaay after the fact, and I apologize.
I am starting Lighting 102 and this is my contribution for this assignment.

1/320
f/3.5
430 EX 45 degrees camera left, 5 feet away from subject.

Camera perspective:
L102 1.1 Position Angle

Light source perspective:
L102 1.1 Position Angle
yomzy 7 years ago
OK, I need help! I'm trying to figure this light thing out. Mentally it makes sense, but when I try to recreate the effects, I get stomped.

This is my biggest issue as of now:
Does the camera orientation (i.e vertical vs horizontal) affect the shadow cast? In my head it shouldn't but what i get when I tried was totally different.

This is the image from a horizontal shot I took
DSC_0349 by yomzy


This is the an identical image from a vertical shot
DSC_0350 by yomzy



My position remained the same between shots, all settings remainded the same.
Can someone please help?!?!
very1silent PRO 7 years ago
yomzy :
Rotating the camera doesn't make a difference, but if you have a flash attached to the camera, rotating the camera affects where that flash is located. The shadows which changed in your photo are from the on-camera flash.

Newer Nikon cameras have a setting to keep the on-camera flash from contributing to the exposure, or you can us a filter like the Nikon SG-3IR if you don't want your on-camera flash to affect things.
yomzy 7 years ago
@ very1silent, thank you so much! makes total sense. I was made to understand the on-camera flash doesnt affect the image, i guess i was misinformed. I appreciate the feed back and correction
yomzy 7 years ago
point of correction, I wasn't misinformed, I misunderstood! thanks again. you made my day!
Aregorn1 6 years ago
Hello I am new to the group and I just completed the the first exercise, I put one photo into the pool and the others are tagged "strobist lighting102 position angle" Is that the way you are supposed to do these? This is my first post of an image here. I think i got the the gist of the exercise, I am just not so sure that my exposure looks right. What do you think?
riikkapuu PRO 6 years ago
Hello, I see that none has posted in this chain in a long time. I came here looking for examples and I will post my exercise here also, who knows is someone else would happen to do these also. Also at the same time a test of how to make a link in flickr, I have little experience here... hope it works (this was the 500 x 500 size, html code grabbed).

strobist102 - Unit 1.1
Kris Coley [deleted] 5 years ago
I know this section has been inactive for 9 months, but I am just now diving in to Lighting 102 myself and would like to participate. So here goes.

Taken at various angles from the front to the left at 5 feet from the subject using one Yongnuo YN-560 II Speedlight on my Canon Rebel T3i at the settings indicated in the lesson.

Strobist 1.1
Wil C. Fry PRO 4 years ago
Count me as another late bloomer:

For Strobist: Lighting 102: Unit 1.1: Position (Angle)
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