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Ze Moo 7:43am, 13 October 2007
I would like to make a statement on my believe that the qualification 'real life' is used wrong usually.

All kinds of communications are real. Art, like music for example, is also real. Virtual Worlds like SL are a part of real life!

Cyberspace simply creates more possibilities in addition to 'PL'. ('physical life')

Stating that Second Life is not 'real', limits the mind.
And therefor this will consequently limit the bounderies of reality in the future ...

Virtual worlds like SL are an 'ER' ('electronic reality'), wich is part of 'real life'. 'PR' (physical reality) is just another part of reality.

I'd love to hear more views on this!
...
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To me, REAL is what I care of and that affect me in a way. Though narrow mind but 100% REAL to me.

SL does not exist before nor will certainly vanish in the future as PL do. Sometime, SL acts more REAL than PL. And, sometime SL and PL are mixed but never exclusive included by either side.

The things created by PL may turn to be classified as UNREAL, of course SL is among the ones that most been mentioned in this regard.

Writing my response in English is not too REAL to me for sure. Chinese is what I feel more REAL than any other things.

(From *Betray Second-Life 背叛→第二人生.)
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All I can say is I have been to many places that are just like real-life places, seen structures that are nearly impossible but are Real Life and the question that comes to my mind is Does Art immitate Life or has Life begun to imitate Art?

It's a Brave New World :)
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Ze Moo Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Ze Moo (admin) 11 years ago
Thanks for your replies!

efly: Interesting what you say about languages. And can you give an example where SL acts more real than PL?

Callie: So you are saying places that are 'just like real-life' places are actually not truly real? Then how could you have been there? ;-P
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Sure. Frequently, while staying in SL environment, I feel more integrated and consistent about who and what I should be, than in PL.

No-mater whether in SL or PL, there is only ME to justify what is REAL.

For instance, in SL, I use a lot of wordings that I never dare or feel inappropriated to use in PL. The UNREAL feeling when I shift myself from SL back to PL, really induce unpleasant and confusion about who am I.
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Cienega Soon PRO Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Cienega Soon (admin) 11 years ago
YES Ze.....thank you for your great explanation.... love it!

Second Life is just one more way of communication just as a cell phone has taken us from being wired to the wall.

I feel real when I'm interacting with other humans no mater what the devise is I'm using to speak with ..including Art, Music, Song, Writing, smoke signals.....the list goes on.

My mind gathers and my heart responds. I feel "Real" no matter how another human is communicating to me.

"Second Life" is ONLY a name some LL staff member or marketing guy came up with. Everyone patted his back about it when they all got up from the "Lets Name This 3D Chat Thing" meeting at Linden Labs.

This SL thing is just one more thing I like to use to interact with my fellow Earthlings.

I have REALLY laughed & I have REALLY cried, while typing and reading in SL chat. Soooooooooooo how could that not be real?
Its all REAL... annnnnd its REAL fun!....to ME

Remember we are all Cerebral Beings, Everything Matters in REALity!
......................the MIND makes it allllllllllllll Physical Life.
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Ze Moo Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Ze Moo (admin) 11 years ago
Right on, Cienega, thank you for your great reply!

Exactly my thoughts: People please let the brand name 'Second Life' not confuse us while philosophising about reality. SL is indeed just a brand like 'Coca Cola' or so. (And only one of the many virtual worlds brand names existing in the present and in the future)

One of the things I like most about Second Life, is that it seems to give me the possibility, for my real physical eyes, to look deeper into REAL peoples minds, souls and thoughts then ever before...

Isn't that one of the things the visual arts are all about since the first paintings on cavewalls? When I am 'surrounded' by other peoples creations in SL I feel like maybe we are the first generation that can see 'paintings' with our physicals eyes while entering the caves of other peoples minds...

/me stares out of a 'Window' and thinks... how real are thoughts, dreams and beliefs?
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Cienega Soon PRO Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Cienega Soon (admin) 11 years ago
hmmmm... isn't it what this world is made up of anyway "Mens Dreams"

With out them I wonder if we would be like the insects just following a chemical trail to the next food pile.

When someone tells me anything ...anything at all... I see it in my mind.

I feel because my mind took me there ...If I can see with my eyes I still dream and wonder ... If I am blind .... I still dream and wonder.... If I am paralyzed.... I still dream and wonder ..... just get the message to my mind and I will create a Physical feeling in my REAL Physical body.

/me stares out the window and remembers love lost and crys... I never felt those arms I only talked about them in a poem
Gita Rau Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Gita Rau (member) 11 years ago
Of course you are absolutely correct ZeMoo when you say that Second Life is real. SL exists as a cyber entity and is part of our reality. Let's not forget that LL first called the PR First Life. It is the inhabitants of SL who started calling our physical world RL.

When you get down to it our physical reality is not really physical at all but is made up of energy (E=mc2). In simple terms, atoms are nothing more than coherent energy. Physicality is an illusion. An easy way for our bodies to perceive and interact with coherent energy. This further blurs the boundaries between virtual realities and our PR.

Something along the lines of the so-called Holodeck of Star Trek fame seems more a virtual reality in that PR people could physically interact with the virtual constructs. When you accept that matter is energy (and visa versa) it is not out of the question that something of that magnitude could exist.

The real question as I see it is not if SL is real but how far will we be able to go in constructing a separate man-made, fully interactive physical reality.
ReLea Meyer 11 years ago
Real life vs. Second life. In my opinion I am the one controlling what I do or say so therefore it is real. SL just opens up a whole other world of possibilities. Anytime you feel emotion it is real, those can't be closed off when you log out of SL. Its another way to express our own individualities, and the sky is the limit!
dependent range [deleted] 11 years ago
Bravo well said Gita, Semi, Cienga, Zemoo

They are mixed-People,heart,soul,dreams,passions,desires,fantasy, that come into play..It might be dream of building or creating or passion of the arts, music,dancing, loves,mates, things can not reach or do in real life but can in virtual life.. We express it in both and Sl allows more dept and things to explore then we might be able to in rl.. But still all the same its real interactions, reality in either form.. Reach for the stars and why not --we can in sl or virtual time..
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:+: efly 飛鷹人e-fly :+: Posted 11 years ago. Edited by :+: efly 飛鷹人e-fly :+: (admin) 11 years ago
As long as I will never meet any member of this group in person, I'd consider here a land inhabited by intellectual eudemon who I can communicate with directly through my id.

I plan to convince someone in PL to use my account and continue to interact with others in SL, before my final day arrive.

我想要說一句話:真不真實我不大關心,喜不喜歡我才真在意。
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CallieDel Boa- in and out... Posted 11 years ago. Edited by CallieDel Boa- in and out... (admin) 11 years ago
Hi ZeMoo,

I am saying I have been to places in SL that I have been to irl. I looked for a sim yesterday that held a little soda fountain type place with a juke box that used to be in a region known as (or close to) San Francisco. I wanted to take more snapshots because I have pictures of an identical shop from a place I visited 2 weeks ago and though it would be cool to put them up together. I couldn't locate the sim again, it may be gone. I'll have to filter through dozens of CD's from the first snapshots I took there. That is simply one example. I'll also have to go through my archives of PL homes I'd like to post that the only other place I have seen them is in SL.

Also as far as SL being RL, I feel it is. We are all human with feelings and emotions and regardless of PL or SL the way we affect one another is very real. I have experinced another virtual world for 12 years and the friendship I have gained there are very real in fact one of my best friends from there came to visit me this month. We experinced some of the very things we shared in our other world (and I'm not talking sex). Places we visited, how we interact.

Even my experince with Theatre in SL is very much like PL as the cast and crew are very dedicated, we all are there for rehearsal even when the difference in timezones makes it difficult and I'd say the only difference between the two is actors have to be a bit more technically minded to manipulate props, annimations, gestures and costumes. The passion is the same.

SL is very REAL to me. Sure there are things I can do there I cannot in PL. As there are also things I can do in PL I cannot in SL. The very nature of the place is RL because of the fact we are real humans and we bring with us the same thing we offer PL as far as emotions, freinds, people we learn from and those whom we can teach.

The only thing I noticed missing on Help Island that my other world has in it's tutorial, (and does not apply to anyone I've met on flickr or any of the people I choose to call friends) is a little tutorial called "Help Mannors". In that area I think some avatars I have run across because of being anonymus feel they can be rude. I believe we refer to them as griefers in-world. When someone I meet for the first time says F**k me in-world, I consider that rude and perhaps I am a bit sheltered, but I have yet to experince the in PL.

Great discussion though. I love it.

Perhaps I'll tell a little story sometime of how some of us banded together to save a life in PL through SL. That was an extremely real experince to me.
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┼ Morgana Hilra♥ 11 years ago
Alright.. I have views on sl.. and rl.. and they can be found here.. so that I do not have to re write it all

gj-greenfairy.deviantart.com/journal/14129441/#comments
Daisy Overlord 11 years ago
"No matter where you go, there you are."

Even if you just "go" as far as your keyboard.
dry memory [deleted] 11 years ago
Morgana,
I read your story, and I couldn't agree with you more if I had said it myself!
xanna ziskey loves SL PRO 11 years ago
Just what is NOT real about Second Life, anyway?
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CallieDel Boa- in and out... Posted 11 years ago. Edited by CallieDel Boa- in and out... (admin) 11 years ago
I have to agree xannaziskey. It's Halloween, Happy Halloween everyone, and my roomate, (whom I think perceives me as being lonely invited me to go out to dinner with him and some of his friends).

He asked if I had any plans and I said Oh Yes! I have a ton of parties to go to today. He asked where and I mentioned a few locations. He asked where they were and I said in SL, he just shook his head. People who haven't expierenced SL just don't get it's not a game.
eagoodlife 10 years ago
Of course SL is real, anything we do when we're alive is real.Don't sweat about it just do it! Isn't this Group developing into another place to post photos of vacuous girls doing nothing much but being boring?
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I have to agree, I'll review and see, sometimes it's not just the images but the comments or feeling one captures in the images.

To be honest in Physical Life throughout the centuries SEX SELLS!

Some of the groups in Flickr have gone all sexy and I did a little experiment myself. I found nude/sexy avatar pictures of mine were viewed 75% more then events such as GOGBOT, Burning Life, and many other events in-world.

This being one of the original Second Life Flickr Groups more and more I get invites for people using Flickr to advertise products. I must admit from time to time I am guilty of that myself, but honestly, based on views, that is what people look at so... Second Life & other Virtual Worlds are real and if you are tired of the boring girls doing nothing well that's real too. Obviously in such Worlds one must consider many residents are disabled, home-bound or have found they can be everything they cannot in Physical Life.

What some consider boring others consider enticing. It goes back to one man's trash is another man's treasure. Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.
Fallen Studios - KissKiss Photography (CLOSED) Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Fallen Studios - KissKiss Photography (CLOSED) (member) 9 years ago
There are many points that have been made and I totally agree to a point. Anything you do can become real if you obsess over it. We tend to do this with SL even more so then lets say a Yahoo IM. When LL made SL they hit something by combining chat with 3d images that look well very very human and real. When they added functionality that made is possible for people to do EVERYTHING they could do in rl and more it made people become lost in this second world where unlike the first you can do almost anything at anytime that you can desire and you can look damn hot doing it or if thats not you.. today you can become a freak of nature.. you can still go to the same party and more often then not unlike RL people will think your freaky costume is funny or cool and when your ready you can change back to being beautiful.

The fact that you can make money in SL that converts to RL money makes SL an even bigger asset. Some people can make enough money to actually make SL a REAL part of there real life not just socially but financially in this case there is no denying that it is more then a game...

there are somethings that do bother me and make me still call this secondlife my play life...
I am not and would never try to be perfect in rl
In real life if I do not have a job and run out of money I cant click a lil $ and poof I can buy this new pair of shoes... (credit cards arent the same.. im talking money from nowhere that you dont have to pay back)
Where are the sexy fat women in sl.. no no I seen the large Avi's that are in sl but I have yet to see one that represents a curvie sexy woman in the real world.
Are we all 7ft in the real world
Everyday is beautiful and you can change the day and night as needed it never rains.. floods etc.

SL I love it and I also spend most of my time on it but it does not take away that for the most part it is a fantasy world. Its what we wish we were what we would like to be what we would like to have in our real physical life. We obsess over sl and it then becomes real to us. If you let it become real you can be hurt. If you play it as a game you can move on when someone tries to wrong you because after all when your internet is down or you go to sleep.. Your back in your real life and all the problems that you left behind for the 5 hours on the game are back

Real life is real - Second Life is an extension of your real life where you can meet great people, see lovely sights, hear great things real life emotions become entangled in the game you start to care more about it. So I understand the references to real because its real feelings. real money etc... but its missing some of the 5 senses, Taste, touch, smell. I love it but its not my real life when i unplug my laptop I go back to real me and my husband and a job that drains the creativity out of me...

whew I wrote a book
[oOoOo] 8 years ago
I think I agree with most of what's been said here. Although Karrett's comment sort of bugs me a little when she says "but its not my real life when i unplug my laptop I go back to real me", so I'll ask this: did you ever have the feeling that this world of virtual reality influences your life? Even if it's only at a small extend?

It surely influences mine, it opened mental doors, I've been playing (understand "playing" like a theatre actor would play, we all play a role in our lives even if that's not the one you wanted to play) so many characters and been involved in so many different situations that I wouldn't let happen in my physical life it ended up making my way of thinking more... true and to the point, less lies towards myself sort of.

On the other hand I also agree with Karrett's comment, the feeling you get when you can't log in this virtual reality game is like a bowl of fresh air even if my mind still thinks about it when I'm online in my real virtuality life (I'm using this expression because sometimes situations in physical life make you say "this can't be real"...)
silkmasked 5 years ago
well if you mean that second life is part of your reality than yes but if you mean that you can feel, see, fondle and touch your imagination than no, I would have to say no. Unless you think that the physical is an illusion then you need to take your meds. lol
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CallieDel Boa- in and out... Posted 5 years ago. Edited by CallieDel Boa- in and out... (admin) 5 years ago
Ze Moo:

I think this statement can best be described from the movie "The Matrix", "What is real?". So many people narrow their possibilities of real which is not to be confused with illusion. Some hold tightly to the concept "real" is something you can touch, taste, hear, see or smell. That is all illusion and is no more "real" than the title some born into royalty for example. I once heard a quote that a King is not born, but rather made. Hours of long work becoming educated, learning self defense with extremely heavy swords, other things such as being able to dance at balls or celebrations.

Real is defined very differently from person to person. In my humble opinion real is not an object. Real if one goes deeply enough is being one of the many selves we are. I can say I am CallieDel Boa but that is merely a name given to this existence that I live while in virtual worlds.

We all are one condensed to a low vibration experiencing ourselves subjectively. I am not just CallieDel, I am you, my brother, my neighbor or perhaps the Queen of England. Although I did not use the original quote by Bill Hicks. A brilliant comedian who had a life that was too short. His perceptions of the United States and what is going on behind the doors of any place or home is extremely amazing.

On another note as two friends may go visit a museum and may find that each sees or finds something about the museum, the art contained within or even the perception of how the art is placed can lead to different emotions or descriptions that do contrast each others opinions.

What is Real depends on the perception of each individual. How is Second Life real to me? I enjoy my friends. I also enjoy the prospect that much of education will be taught via virtual worlds and because of the technology each virtual world offers, (mainly physics), will make such worlds a variety of tools to open concepts to students that were not available before.

I can also experience other things such as flying (I do not refer to a vehicle as these are physical life machines).. Something that is not possible in physical life, yet is possible in virtual worlds.

I also believe that in many cases people choose to display themselves as animals, legendary creatures, even children is real to them and gives them the opportunity to experience and behave as such creatures and it is very real to such individuals.
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