DaddysAgeek 3:37pm, 11 September 2008
Hi, all. I've been with WHCC for a little while now but decided to give Miller's a try after seeing their custom packaging option. We also print our holiday cards with MPix, Miller's consumer division, and we're always happy with them.

I have to say I'm dissapointed with the test prints I received. You upload 4 images and get 8 prints back: 1 original and 1 color adjusted. All are 8x10. I did my usual crap: crop to 8x10, save as sRGB 8-bit JPG high quality, blah blah... same stuff. But what I got back was just not right. I'd say bad even. The color was off... hard to explain it another way. And the color adjusted ones (presumably by a pro in their lab) were simply terrible. One headshot looked almost orange in the skin tone. And a B&W test was washed out. I deliberately toned it a touch toward the chocolate side and that was totally removed and the highlights were blown. In fact, all four images were brightened by their color adjustment process, and the effect seemed to blow out the highlights and shift the color toward the red. I'm not one to usually ask for color correction... in fact, knowing that my monitor is calibrated, and WHCC can accept Adobe RGB color space, I just make it right and upload it. But it came free with the samples from Miller's. Now I KNOW I'd never ask for it.

I'm a bit surprised, I know plenty of you folks use Miller's and I respect so much of your work. Have you ever experienced this? By the way, I ordered two of the prints from WHCC at the same time because the client wanted them. They came in the mail the same day. I opened the boxes at the same time and they are just so different it's scary. In fact, I used an 8x loupe to inspect the prints further and I notice an exaggerated amount of sharpening in the Miller's prints, not found in the WHCC prints. Definitely some unwanted edge sharpening around the eyes and hair. Detail in skin and water did not produce any added noise, however. Just strange......

-Dave
That Pettigrew Girl 10 years ago
I've not experienced it at all. The color is spot on, and no edge sharpening...

and btw... I don't think you need to prepare the images like you do with WHCC (which is one of the reasons I stick with Miller's). You don't need to change the color space, you don't need to crop them for each size, none of that.
chuckespinoza.com PRO 10 years ago
I've been super happy with bayphoto. They offer custom packaging, drop shipment and all sorts of useless frilly photo products.

I don't have any experience with miller's although I was considering using WHCC to print a press printed book
dietzy2320 10 years ago
So far I have been really impressed with Mpix! Such incredibly fast turn around and the quality is fantastic. Haven't checked out the new version of their site yet, but about time that I order some new prints soon anyway. Perhaps you accidently checked or unchecked that you wanted the photos altered by them versus untouched. Just a guess.

I also use Mpix for orders that are placed directly through my Zenfolio website. I think I recall that they were going to start offering some custom packaging options in the new version of their site, but not certain. There is an article on them in Popular Photography this month as well.
RobertJSherman 10 years ago
some how I thought Millers and MPIX were more-or-less the same place?! maybe I'm mistaken ...

I've used MPIX .. had them print my biz cards .. cheap and easy from my own photos ... rather decent quality for the price ...

Now, I've been looking at WHCC - but they seem like a lot more over-head for production- and the pricing shown in their software is a bit more than MPIX - but ... the WHCC software has templates for portrait package printing - I dunno -
dietzy2320 10 years ago
"some how I thought Millers and MPIX were more-or-less the same place?! maybe I'm mistaken ..."

They are. Millers runs Mpix. Mpix doesn't offer as much as the pro services offered by Millers. More of a consumer friendly, web-only option, but with the same professional results, paper, printing, and service.
DaddysAgeek 10 years ago
Rebecca -- I store all my images in Adobe RGB but Miller's specifically says that it needs to be saved under sRGB. You send JPG files to Miller's under Adobe RGB? Because I do that with WHCC without problems.
-Dave
rekkid 10 years ago
DaddysAgeek: I'm about to do Miller's Test prints as well... and I'll compare them to the same Test prints I did with WHCC. I'll let you know if I get the same results as you or if maybe it was just a fluke run you got...
photobyaubrey 10 years ago
I had the exact same outcome with whcc vs millers. I just received my 8 prints from millers lab and they were bad. The color on the originals seemed better than the pro edited ones.

All around, I will stick w/ whcc. I wish they did the boutique packaging, but other than that, I love 'em)
Laurie Sachs 10 years ago
I found the same thing. I think part of it is that I'm used to the way WHCC prints and so my photos were processed accordingly and looked blown from Miller's. I was also not impressed with their color correction, it took everything unique about the photo away. I will stick with WHCC because I am consistently happy with their processing.
DaddysAgeek 10 years ago
Whew, okay so I'm not crazy! Thanks for the info everyone...
@rekkid, I'll be interested in your results too!
@photobyaubrey - exactly, I like their boutique packaging option... (just three bucks? wow...)
@Laurie -- I noticed that as well ... a lot of my processing for effect and subtle tone changes were just removed by their "pro" adjustments. I don't like anyone adjusting my photos anyway, but really this was bad!

Thanks,
-Dave
brettmaxwell 10 years ago
It wasn't long ago that I got the samples from Millers and WHCC, of the exact same shots. I really can't tell the difference between the two when comparing uncorrected. The "corrected" ones from Miller are only slightly different than my originals, for the worse though.
That Pettigrew Girl 10 years ago
I have all of my stuff in SRGB., so that's probably why I don't change anything. I've never used their color correction, so I have no opinion there. Like you, Dave, I don't like people color correcting my work. I tried ACI, too, and they decided that my children were too pale (we all are -it's the irish heritage) and darkened the photos. My blond child had brown hair, and my two brunettes had black hair in the photos...

I saw no difference between my WHCC test prints and my MIller's Prints. Really, in quality, I found them to be even... But.. I had to crop my photos for each size for WHCC, and I don't with Miller's. And I like Miller's Boutique Packaging, so I didn't switch.
DaddysAgeek 10 years ago
Rebecca -- if you don't crop an image for printing at a different ratio, how do you know they will crop where you want it?
-Dave
That Pettigrew Girl 10 years ago
I deal with that in composition, to be honest... although... the new Millers Suite, lets you adjust the crop.
Stephen Crowers 10 years ago
Different print processes - different results. I sent the same file to MPIX and to WHCC and got two different looking prints.

Are you profiling your color to match your output? Calibration is just the baseline. Each output device still has it's own gamut that needs to be taken into account.

I was still surprised at the degree of difference between the two, though.
LoSt CaUsE_26 10 years ago
I joined Millers a few months back and my images came back perfect. I have ordered from WHCC and MPIX., all the prints look the same.I can't tell a difference between mpix and millers prints though so i just order from mpix. I thought Millers was suppose to be a little better?
If you use WHCC's ROES, you don't have to crop a file for each size. Just view your photo and then use their crop box for the appropriate sizing & placment. This workflow saves SO much time in comparison. I am astoundingly happy with WHCC - amazing customer service & great quality, reasonable pricing, super-fast free 2-day shipping... It's a really good fit for me.
DaddysAgeek 10 years ago
I agree, the ROES software is great and with free 2-day and their awesome customer support, why switch...
-Dave
I'll put in another vote for WHCC. I started using them about 2 months ago and I've been VERY happy with the quality of their prints, their speed, and even the quality of the packaging. Out of I don't know how many orders, I've only had to do one reprint with them -- and that was due to my own mistake in the file. I can't say that with any other place I've tried.
Damien Franco PRO 10 years ago
Used to use Millers then switched to H&H color lab. Love H&H. Make sure that whichever lab you use, you calibrate your moniter to their printers color profile. Then you can do the color corrections yourself.
I am trying to decide between WHCC and MILLER's for my business.

Both WHCC and MILLER allow you to use ROES to order but for some reason, i preferred the WHCC version.

Why hasn't anybody been talking about pricing? I noticed that WHCC is considerably less expensive. Any thoughts?

Do both companies have high quality Photobooks or do you guys use other sources?
I just received my test prints from Miller's today and I am so impressed! Compared to WHCC and ACI the Miller's prints are the best match to my Spyder-calibrated monitor. The color-corrected ones are hardly different than the non-corrected prints - The only print that had a noticable difference was one that I had altered the skin tones to a bluish cast for an "artistic" effect. They corrected the skin tones to a normal warm skin tone and it looks good, but not what I had intended.

I was a bit nervous about Miller's since after I ordered I read this post, but seriously the prints are great and I'm very pleased!
LoSt CaUsE_26 10 years ago
I don't know why you would be apprehensive about Millers. They produce magnificent prints. I don't understand why WHCC is more expensive though. I have my comp calibrated with Spyder and it seemed Millers and Mpix matched my prints a lot better then WHCC.
I love whcc as well. I hear about their color profiles but know nothing about it.
stephencullo 9 years ago
I've been %110 percent happy with WHCC. I've only used ROES with thrifty prints (Adobe RGB) and every print has looked EXACTLY like it does on my Mac monitor. Delivery can be freaky fast. I just had a rush job of 4 24x36 prints on 2mm styrene that I sent Wed morning 7am and just got them Thursday morning 10am. That's crazy! That's rushed, but regular service is just as impressive. I remember comparing the same print size and delivery and couldn't believe how much more Mpix was. I also had problems with ROES for Mpix (I'm using a Mac). All I can say is that WHCC has been flawless for me. : >
jmz313 9 years ago
FYI, You can get profiles from mpix by emailing support.
katherine lynn 9 years ago
Another alternative:
www.ProlabExpress.com

*No minimum orders
*Free shipping / Drop shipping on orders over $15.00
*No holiday cut-off dates

E-mail customer service for free sample prints to get started.
Or message me with any questions!
reflexionz 9 years ago
Every time you change labs you change your image. I used Burrell Colour for about 40 years and still use them for anything I can't print in house.
Studio E 9 years ago
I've used both Millers and WHCC. While I like both of them, my current preference is Bay Photo. They do a wonderful job! I'm also going to give CPQ labs a try with the DWF discount.
Cynmat [deleted] 9 years ago
oh, stupid question here, who is WHCC?
DaddysAgeek 9 years ago
A pro print lab. whcc.com
Stephen Crowers 9 years ago
otherwise known as (AKA): White House Custom Color
Neil Cowley 9 years ago
" I deliberately toned it a touch toward the chocolate side"

So you need to select no color correction.

I always do my color in house and never leave it up to the lab. Color is subjective and a big part of the artist's touch.

I have all my custom designed wedding signature books printed by MPIX press on the pearl paper and the guests find it absolutely stunning at the wedding I also often print on the metallic and true B+W paper and MPIX stays fast with their turnaround times even with the specialty stuff.
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