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Chris Maytag 5:29am, 30 July 2007
While this won't be news to peole who haunt online forums regularly or pros, but in a conversation with a Nikon engineer at an event one week ago, I was told that there would be a new pro-level DSLR released 'within a month or two'.

I asked him "D3?" "yes."
I asked him "full frame?" "yes."

Then he said: "in a couple months, Canon won't even know what it them."


Yes, it's hearsay....but given the persistent info from the consistently reliable "jeff_c" on DPReview and the comments from this guy last week, I'd say that we're about to see at least one pro camera with crop, full frame with crop mode or full frame, probably upward of 16-20mp, and a huge modular viewfinder.

I did NOT get the impression that we'd see a D3H right away, or that dramatically new sensor tech would be involved, although that may well be wrong.
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(1 to 100 of 102 replies)
threelayercake 11 years ago
I won't be able to afford it, so all this talk is over my head and my wallet.
salamandertome 11 years ago
It'll have a Pro price tag for sure - but I suppose the really interesting thing is that its key features will give an indication of what a future D300 might be like. And when that comes out, there might be a glut of D200s in the secondhand market place.
Chris Maytag 11 years ago
> but I suppose the really interesting thing is that its key
> features will give an indication of what a future D300 might be like.

Bingo.

The rumours seem to all suggest that TWO cameras will be introduced this coming month, with early fall shipment, but that here will be a third (non-CoolPix) camera announced in the fall sometime (read: before Christmas). It's possible that this will be a D200s or possible some sort of prosumer follow-on to the D200...no real info or even serious talk about that one yet, though.
nikonconvert 11 years ago
I guess I will have to sell the farm to get one! I still don't see why there is this "full frame" fascination on the Nikon forums. The groovy, lusty Canon right now is the Mark III - 1.3 crop! The 1Ds is slow, the files are huge and it is crazy pricey. (you can almost get two Mark III's for the price of one 1Ds) If Nikon wants to chase the high end market, that ain't the one I would chase - I would (and do) want a 1.5 crop, clean, fast sensor. Of course, if Nikon does release a large sensor version, I am sure they will keep the HSC mode (which I like a lot).

oh well, enough mental wanking, lets see what the world brings.
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
I just wish they would release a 10mp FF sensor in an F3 body with no back LCD, AF, or JPEG but great dynamic range and sensitivity. Come on Nikon, get a little creative.
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
...oh yeah, I would also like to see no low pass filter, little to no anti-alaising filtering, spot and center-weighted metering, flip-up AI tab for mounting non-AI lenses (stop-down metering), and a price tag sub $2K USD.
Douglas Lowe 11 years ago
... I'd like to see al that, AND them giving me one to field test it. Oh, and I get to keep it.
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
jeff_c is literally the only guy I trust. Random people at shows say anything.
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
And here's the thing about full frame: In general, from a narrow view, the larger the frame the better. But larger frames tend to bring their own problems: the lenses are slower, the cameras are much bigger, etc. Compare medium format zooms (what few of them there are) with 35mm zooms.

BUT

Thanks to camera design, backwards compatibility, and designers not being yet able to match decades of 35mm lens build-up, on the wide end full frame lenses are *faster* than APS lenses. The 17-35mm f/2.8 vs. the 12-24mm f/4. The 28mm f/1.4 versus … well, nothing. If you shoot on the wide end, one FF camera solves a lot of problems that it would take totally new lens designs we're only dreaming about to solve.
Westside guy 11 years ago
I would hazard to guess that the D300 will be a crop sensor, given who the target audience is and the lenses that have mainly been updated in the last couple of years.

The pro bodies have to go full frame, though, if only because Canon's is.
threelayercake 11 years ago
all i care about are the new lenses that might be announced.
any speculation on those???
Letsemgo Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Letsemgo (member) 11 years ago
Who cares about an $8000.00 camera, I want lenses...fast and cheap...heres what he's talking about, the upcoming miracle of all miracles

www.photographybay.com/?p=33
TonyStubbings 11 years ago
for the love of god Nikon, sort out hi ISO noise and put some dust busting malarky in it, cos I swear Canons are looking better by the day, and I really dont wanna go down that route
DSP (Digital Soft Paw) 11 years ago
@cosmic_jesus --

I would be happy with a 10 MP digital back for my FE. I really love that old beast!

@TonyStubbings --

Screw all that! I have the dust problem solved! Now all I need to do is add a port for liquid nitrogen and I'll have the noise problem licked.

Nikon Auto Sensor Cleaner
Nikon Auto Sensor Cleaner

Nikon USA—Due to high consumer demand and stiff market competition from Canon, Nikon rolls out its first dSLR camera retrofitted with the new Redneck Auto Sensor Cleaner.

Nikon’s dedication to meeting customers’ demands for a dust free sensor has been met after many years of research and development. After pouring through countless internet messages, Nikon Development has isolated the single source for the dSLR user’s anxiety, dust. It seems there has been many dSLR users afflicted with nervous breakdowns, heart attacks, and other stress related disorders resulting from the worriment over sensor dust.

Pictured is the world famous D200 modified for direct injection of an extremely dry inert gas (nitrogen) that is automatically blown across the sensor array when a lens is being changed. This curtain of dry air cleans the sensor while shielding the sensor from new dust and debris. (Shown is the standard 40 cubic foot nitrogen cylinder that is included in this kit. Optional shoulder straps (not shown) are available direct from Nikon.)

Q1 of 2007 will break new and exciting ground and thrust Nikon in the forefront of the dSLR market with the Redneck Auto Sensor Cleaner being standard on all new D90, D300, and D3x dSLR bodies.
Shyha PRO 11 years ago
nikonconvert: Canon 5D is also a Full Frame one, and it doesn't have these issues you talking about
nikonconvert 11 years ago
Shyha

I often overlook that one. It is a prosumer camera with a build similar to a D80 but with a full 35mm sensor for $2500. Of course for what it excels at, it is an awesome camera. I have often noted that Nikon and Canon seem to interleave their offerings and that the D200 and the 5d have no direct competitor.

That being said, I will stick to my argument - if you can clean up the sensor, for the majority of use, cropped sensors are superior. They fall down at wide angles (but make that up on the other end - example, people complain all of the time over the price of a 12-24 but nobody seems to mind the difference between a 300/2.8 and a 400/2.8 on the long end...) The 5d is expensive for what you get (outside of the sensor) and the files are rather large.

For me, if given the choice between a 5d and say a 30d as backup or a Mark III, no question I would take the Mark III. Translate to Nikon: an improved D?H camera has significantly more appeal than a D?X.

Your mileage may vary.
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
people complain all of the time over the price of a 12-24 but nobody seems to mind the difference between a 300/2.8 and a 400/2.8 on the long end...

Problem is, there is really no difference using a 300mm on FF or DX, with DX you are just not recording all the information you are with FF (which you could just crop 33% off and get the same effective 400mm length you get with DX).
Regarding the 12-24. Generally I don't hear people complain about the price. They complain that its quality is not equal to the 17-35 2.8 on film and that it's not fast enough. People want a 2.8 wide zoom which would be even more expensive (e.g. the 17-35).
Not to mention, the 5D ain't exactly fast... the fastest 1.5 crop sensors just demolish their full frame counterparts in speed, for obvious reasons.
Shyha PRO 11 years ago
nikonconvert: agree
From my (not great) experience I find that it's hard to say which Nikon camera is direct competitor with which Canon... For me it's like Nikon took all odd and Canon all even slots...
Burnblue: you're right
nikonconvert 11 years ago
cosmic_jesus

True about the cropping issue - however, if you take a ff 12mp image and crop vs a DX 12mp image, you no longer have apples to apples. However, that aside, I do agree that Nikon "needs" to release some fast, wide, DX glass or jump ship to FF.

Shyha

Given that I came back from Canon to Nikon, I like to think that Canon has the odd slots ;)
nb-photo 11 years ago
All things to all men eh...
I dont give a toss about FF or DX etc, I just care about image quality and body handling. If nikon can produce a d2x style body with great high iso characteristics that would do me fine. I love my d2x to bits, its a fine camera, let down by noisy images above iso 400. We shall have to wait and see if Nikon go DX for speed and use new innovations to reduce the inherent noise, or if they go for a FF sensor and loose some of the speed. The FF with high speed crop mode would seem like the golden bullet solution to me.. But at what price? For me it would have to be £3000 or less, not the 5 grand odd of the Canon.
You can buy a top notch as new Mamiya RZ67 set up for £400 on ebay now, and a d2x will be cheaper once the d3 is released. That would give you equal speed and better quality for less money than im guessing the new D3 will retail for.
MerlinsMan PRO 11 years ago
How about no lens distortion worries ever again? The 18MP D3 will fix them all in firmware. Your NEFs will not have any trace of barrel/pincusion, CA or vignetting regardless of which Nikkor lens you're using.

Worth $8000? I donno, but I hope to see it in a D300 eventually.
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
However, that aside, I do agree that Nikon "needs" to release some fast, wide, DX glass or jump ship to FF.

I don't see it as a matter of "jumping ship," it's about providing options. I see benefits in all formats (DX, APS-H, 4:3, FF) and I think Nikon should give its loyal customer base more options. Anyway, for a lot of people it may be more cost effective and logical to replace their DX camera with higher cost FF than replacing all their exsisting lenses with all new DX glass.
threelayercake 11 years ago
So all of this to say that all of these reliable sources only talk about bodies but not prospective lenses...!??
larrygerbrandt PRO 11 years ago
I've been quietly snatching up 35mm Nikkors off eBay in anticipation of the full-frame Nikon. They are all usable on my D200 but will become even more valuable and useful on a FF body. I expect a big increase in the pricing of full frame glass on eBay if the body gets released UNLESS Nikon breaks with decades of tradition and introduces a new lens line, like Canon did.

My bet is that some of the first new lenses Nikon debuts along with a new full-frame pro body will be long, fast glass with VR to compete head on with Canon. The glass will be pro-oriented and priced accordingly, with knock your socks off specs (i.e., very fast, with VR).
James Kaarremaa 11 years ago
I agree that it's quality that matter not sensor size. There is however, a large number of people that are insanely drawn to the full frame 5D. People leave Nikon for it. What they don't understand is that Full Frame doesn't = better quality. The 5D does have great image quality and that's what people equate with being full frame.

I myself would consider buying a full frame camera (if funds allowed). I would consider it more with a high speed crop. A 16mp/8 or 10mp 1.5x crop would be ideal but probably out of my budget for a while.

I think wide is an issue with 1.5x crop cameras but it doesn't stop there. Many of Nikon's lenses are not as good this way. The 50mm is excellent on film but on digital it's not a lens you can leave on your camera. I love my 80-200mm but recently I've been using it in closer quarters (Rodeo and other events). If it was on full frame I would have been able to get a lot more shots where things were getting cut off (a high speed crop would negate this benefit anyway). Other benefits of a FF camera would be a tighter DOF and the ability to use smaller apertures without diffraction.
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
Good point, James. The early Kodak cameras were FF and had awful high-ISO quality. Sony needs to fix more about its sensors than just making them bigger.
threelayercake 11 years ago
So in other words, nobody's reliable sources have said anything about lenses....
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
Sony needs to fix more about its sensors than just making them bigger.

Agreed.
DSP (Digital Soft Paw) 11 years ago
@larrygerbrandt --

I've been dreaming of a 500/4 VR lens being introduced this fall, but I'm afraid it's going to white instead of black.
MrDAT 11 years ago
I'm waiting for the 18-200 F1.4 Kit lens :)
crazie_boogie 11 years ago
You're going to wait a LONG time to see a 18-200mm f/1.4

Put it in your will that you want your casket exhumed and the lens installed in your cold dead hands..

And don't forget to escroll enough away to pay for the lens and the reburial..
MrDAT Posted 11 years ago. Edited by MrDAT (member) 11 years ago
Oh yeah. It HAS to have VR and ESP. I want the Ap and Shutter set automatically based on what I'm thinking!

Edit: And Built in Pocket Wizard transmitter (what?) :)
nikonconvert 11 years ago
I want Nikon to release an electonic liquid lens - focus at the speed of light, only 1.5" thick for a 10-600/1.4 zoom, no CA. Yeah baby, the brave new world.
threelayercake 11 years ago
escrow escrow
MrDAT 11 years ago
nikonconvert: that sounds even better! I'll take one for the D200 and F100
nikonconvert 11 years ago
Funny thing is that the technology is coming. Probably not that extreme but in 20 years or so we won't be using glass for most lenses.

www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=1577

These lenses already exist for low resolution options. Glass lenses are really old technology and at some point they will go away. Perhaps not until I am too feeble to use my gear and so it won't matter to me anyway.
davedeluria 11 years ago
Cool link! Thanks for sharing it.
calvintd 11 years ago
I just heard word of a 1Ds MarkIII. Common Nikon!!! Canon won't know what hit them when nikon releases a 50mm 1.2, a 24 1.4, a 35 1.4, an 85 1.2, a full frame sensor with bad ass noise capability. I can only hope and wish.
Anxiolytic | Kamila 11 years ago
nikonconvert: thanks for sharing the link, opening my eyes to the not-so-distant future.
Joits 11 years ago
heck, as long as the price of the d200 goes down... i don't care wot kind of camera nikon brings out.
Kim Taylor Hull PRO 11 years ago
heck as long as the price of the D2xs goes down :)
nikonconvert 11 years ago
I'm with you Finiky. Actually, if I could pick up a D2Hs new for $1500 I would be happy too.
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
D2Hs is discontinued, so you might want to look out for chances.
NTconcepts 11 years ago
If Nikon releases a FF I will be more disapointed in them, than I am now.

I dont understand the need for Nikon to sell f/2.8 glass in cropped size. All the while letting everyone spend thousands on glass and then quitely dropping a FF pro camera. I would estimate they are committed to aps-c. Which isn't such a bad thing.

If they do drop a FF, they will be to me a company that flip flops with it's client base.
NTconcepts 11 years ago
I agree with carpe icthus about everything he said : )
Beyond Forgetting PRO Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Beyond Forgetting (member) 11 years ago
It is useless to me .... I probably can't afford it ... and for what use will it be to me, since I take pictures only to entertain my friends. If I have business use for it and I use photography for generating income, probably I might consider it. Unlike before, when I was a press-photographer (fashion) and I used a Linholf. Now, its purely a hobby. I might be interested in a D200 soon as price go down.
DSP (Digital Soft Paw) 11 years ago
@NTconcepts --

I have to totally disagree with you about questioning Nikon's loyalty to their customers when it comes to FF and DX lenses. My feeling is it would be utterly foolish for them not to release an FF body. It's called giving their customers choice like Canon did. There are enough FF lenses in Nikon's lineup for one to totally avoid DX lenses except for the 12-24/4. There's no reason why Nikon can't support both formats like Canon is presently doing. And it is not going to be a financial hardship for the owners of the 17-55/2.8 DX lens since they can sell it for what they paid or even more in some cases.

For me, I only have two DX lenses in my stable and they are the 12-24/4 and 18/200mm VR. I consider both of them novelty lenses that I can really do without. Fortunately Nikon didn't make the 70-200mm VR and primes into DX lenses. So, I really only see most pros dumping the 17-55 if they go totally FF. Of course, there will always be people that are totally happy with the DX format and it is a not an issue for them.
NTconcepts 11 years ago
I agree with you DSP, Nikon users should have the choice. All I'm saying is this.

I go to my local shop and say Hi have a D80 and kit lens, I want to upgrade to pro gear.... The Nikon rep recommends, D200/D2x, 17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-200 f/2.8 VR and 12-24mm f/4 DX or 10.5mm DX for the wide end. Which actually happend and I bought 3 of those lenses 2 being DX for a total of 3k in DX glass. I ask before I spend this money will Nikon release a FF....answer from a Nikon dealer, I dont know.

It seems foolish that a Nikon dealer can't give me a strait answer when I'm about to invest thousands in thier company.

So what I'm saying is if your planning on releasing a FF tell people!
Dont wait till alot of your client base turning pro jumps ship. Then say hey look we have FF now. We just wanted to keep it a secret for shits and giggles....
NTconcepts 11 years ago
Here an intersting way to draw speculation.

Sony makes Nikon's sensors.
Sony has just released Some big lenses (pro)
Sony doesnt have any DX lenses that I could find, unless DT is a cropped designation.
So for answer in nikons future look to sony. maybe? just an idea.
If you do and realize that they offer in camera VR and some seriously nice glass with the same sensors nikon is using you may start to think Sony....

But since they have only the A100, and do offer lenses like the 300mm f/2.8 or 135mm f/1.8
I could see a future in Sony's FF.
they are in fact releasing lenses in classic 35mm sizes.

So if Sony is now a competitor in the DSLR market, how long will they contnue suppling Nikon with sensors?

What happens to nikon if Sony cuts them loose?.... Does Nikon have any sensor R&D?
scubapup 11 years ago
nikon will turn to fuji :)
NTconcepts 11 years ago
Good call scubapup

I should have thought of that before I sold my S5 pro lol
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
So if Sony is now a competitor in the DSLR market, how long will they contnue suppling Nikon with sensors?
I'd imagine Nikon dumping Sony would happen well before Sony ever aquired enough market share to think of pulling their sensors out of Nikon cameras.

Does Nikon have any sensor R&D?
Yes
nb-photo 11 years ago
All the talk of FF is pure speculation and gossip. Officially Nikon are committed to the DX sensor size, and have always been since the first digi slr's.
I would bet 20p that the next nikon dslr is DX sized until I see something on the official Nikon site saying otherwise.
MrDAT 11 years ago
NT, If Nikon makes a FF camera and everyone buys them, I'll snatch a 17-55mm for a good deal then (I hope).
LightsCameraAction 11 years ago
@HugoLago, I'll take your bet. Flickrmail me
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
Officially Nikon are committed to the DX sensor size

I've never seen a statement from Nikon regarding their "official" commitment. Is there one?
Salsavaders 11 years ago
"So if Sony is now a competitor in the DSLR market, how long will they contnue suppling Nikon with sensors?

What happens to nikon if Sony cuts them loose?.... Does Nikon have any sensor R&D?"

Sony has always sold sensors to anyone that wanted them.

Remember the recall in 2005? It affected, Canon, Fuji and Minolta. They all used Sony sensors.
wetpixel.com/i.php/full/recall-of-cameras-using-certain-s...

I am no expert but there are usually only a limited number of factories in the world that are equiped to build IC chips and they will build anything from anyone according to specs. So different companies will bring their specs to be produced from the same factory.

Here is a presentation from the Sony Semiconductor Division on their business plans.
www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/info/Semiconductor/2006.pdf
On page 2 of their mission - it is to increase profits through outside sales.
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
NTconcepts Haha, if only more people would adopt your plan.
James Kaarremaa 11 years ago
Nikon should make an F7 that's an FF digital. Come on Nikon, bring the F back!
DSP (Digital Soft Paw) 11 years ago
@NTconcepts --

Maybe you are looking at this from a different perspective than I am. Even in a worse case scenario all the DX lenses you mentioned can be used for years and sold off for profit, break-even point, or at a loss of a couple hundred dollars providing you don't severely abuse them. There will always be buyers, so look at it as renting these DX lenses for next to nothing and buy the newer FF lenses you think you need. The bottom isn't going to fall out of the market for used Nikkors. If you are really concerned just buy used lenses and sell then for a profit when you're done with them. Taking a loss on lenses is over rated and blown into the realm of mythical proportions.
NTconcepts 11 years ago
Ah DSP I lost 400 on my 70-200 300 on my 17-55 and 200 on my fisheye, and thanks to Fujis wonderful timing on their S5 price drop, I'm looking at about a 600 dollar loss.

I bought new, hammered the store on the price (1800ca for the 70-200 new, list 2050), and sold for the going rate used. I took a 1500 dollar loss!!! I could have traveled for a month!

As much as i hate to say it, I like Canon way more. The D3 or what ever, may be cool but by the time it's out I'll be looking at the 1Ds mk II and by then a price drop should be in order.

But hey this is a thread about the D3.......
crazie_boogie 11 years ago
Paitience is a virtue....
nsbkaizen 11 years ago
Yup, Nikon's response is coming too late for a lot of pro shooters but I wonder if the company even really cares. I see scores of tourists every day and every other one is happily holding a D40 + kit lens. Nikon's attention is not on the pro shooter and I would say they have had great success so far.
If Nikon decides ultimately to abandon the FF/pro competition and concentrate on making their consumer level dslrs cameras and lenses even more affordable would it be so bad for the company..
DSP (Digital Soft Paw) 11 years ago
@NTconcepts --

WOW! You're kidding? You really lost $400 on the 70-200mm VR? I bought mine new several years back when Nikon had a sweet rebate offer which brought the delivered price down to $1,100. I can sell it for more than that on the used market.

B&H and Cameta sell the 17-55 for $1,200 and I've seen them sell for more than that used. Honestly, if you used the 17-55 for 2-years and sold it for $200 less you still got a cheap rental. Personally, I wouldn't buy a used 17-55 for more than $800.

And pity the people that paid $1,000+ for the 18-200mm VR, a $750 lens, because they couldn't wait several months on a wait list.

As for the dSLR body from *ANY* manufacturer, everybody knows that this has the highest rate of depreciation in one's kit and is consider a disposable item. No surprise there.

I agree that Canon has some really sweet gear, but we both know it's not going to be the end all for what you want to get out of your equipment. I'm excited about the Mk III, but the "error 99" and focusing issues are frustrating a lot of people and slowing deliver to the people on wait lists.

But hey you were the one that brought DX lenses into the thread. And I'm glad you did because they hold and carry a lot of potential for making or breaking Nikon as a competitor. When Nikon introduces an FF body that has high-performance ISO, which they will do eventually, they will be even more in a better position than Canon because of how much better Nikon's optics are. It can go the other way. If Nikon stays in DX hell with these cheap ass DX consumer zooms it will be the death of Nikon in the pro sector.

@crazie_boogie --

LOL! That and smart shopping.
NTconcepts 11 years ago
DSP I live in Canada.

Nikon Canada has completely different pricing.
heres the list price is,
70-200 2050
17-55 1800
10.5 800

Remeber that the Canadian dollar is almost par with the US. You pay 4 for a magazine we pay 7. Nice eh
nikonconvert 11 years ago
northshore boy

I think you are mostly right. Many moons ago I was a pro bicycle mechanic (good enough to work freelance at 3 stores on commission simultaneously). I learned much about business in general. The guys who catered only to the pro's had the coolest stuff and I loved working there because I got to work on the best and newest stuff for a fair amount of cash. The guys who ran volume (with good gear mind you, not WalMart Huffy's) made so much cash it was staggering. They didn't like to pay me much but to be fair that was a reflection of their clients. The store that did both went out of business - all things to all people.

Lesson learned - You cannot do it all. If you do, your competition will pick you apart. The only reason there is a market for a fuji is the Nikon F mount shooters needed it. Note that there is no fuji with a Canon EOS mount because it isn't needed. Canon has chosen to protect its pro grade market at the expense of the prosumer market. Nikon is protecting its prosumer market at the expense of its pro market. The only battle ground is amateurs - right now Nikon is winning that one and probably making a hell of a lot more money than they would if they had not introduced the D40/40x and given us a D3.

That being said, there will be a pro response to save face. It will be to the market what the D200/D2X were- something that Canon doesn't have. My guess is it will sit below the D2Xs in price and be a mold of features. To me, again IMHO, the D2Xs with an upgraded sensor and a little more buffer depth is superior to every camera currently made. It is versatile, fast, sharp, a joy to use and makes a great self defence weapon and in a pinch you can drive nails with it.

NT Concepts, I feel for you. I am amazed though. I have never lost more than $100 on any relatively new Nikon lenses sold on eBay. Actually I have made money on most. With prices going up now, I cannot imagine gettting less than $1500 for the 70-200 right now and the 10.5 should go for significantly more than I paid for mine new. I did the opposite that you are doing. I had a nice, new Canon kit with a floatilla of L glass and lost my ass - $1500 - in the conversion back to Nikon. A year later it still hurts but I am happy with my gear and so life goes on. Somedays I wonder if I was stupid (my wife thinks so) but to paraphase you, "I like Nikon better". The thing I really liked about the Canon gear is the sleep mode on the 30d - I never turned mine off. Oh yeah, the white lenses were pretty too.
DSP (Digital Soft Paw) 11 years ago
@NTconcepts --

I'm not sure if your location and the exchange rate have any bearing on this unless you are buying and selling across border. I guess what I'm trying to say is you might have been a bit hasty in your buying and selling.

@nikonconvert --

Well said!
NTconcepts 11 years ago
Hey Nikonconvert....

With all this gear hype and foolishness I say we up the ante.

Guns at dawn..... Your Nikon my Canon, we can battle out RAW captures on a beach like a couple of samurai....

*NT waits for someone to tell him ninja's are better than samurai*
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
No one has to tell you that ninjas are better than samurai. They'll just write it on your gravestone.
nikonconvert 11 years ago
NTConcepts

I laughed my ass off - lets go head to head. I like the samurai better - honor and all.

I remember the same argument in the bike world - Campagnolo vs Shimano. The cool part is that in the end, the consumer wins!
_Blake Adam 11 years ago
@Carpe-HAHAHAHAHA!
roger_burd 11 years ago
How many of you still would want a full frame DSLR if you could not use your existing film lenses? A digital sensor needs light to hit the individual pixel site at as close to right angle as possible as it is below surface of the chip. A film wide angle lens would hit the corners of a full frame sensor at a steep angle which would give vignetting and unsharpness in corners of the frame. This is why Nikon and other manufacturers have gone to a smaller sensor, and designed lenses especially to have a flat field over the reduced sensor size. When, or if Nikon does bring out a FF DSLR camera, they will probably also bring out a new line of full frame lenses. Normal and telephoto lenses tend to have a flatter field than wide angles and thus are more usable on a full frame camera. Nikon could bring out a FF DSLR now, but it would probably have a different lens mount to prevent use of film lenses. Nikon is working on lower image noise, higher ISO sensors, so there is little or no reason to produce a FF DSLR. I am sure Nikon is putting more research money into increasing sensor dynamic range (to get closer to film) than into full frame sensors. The next generation of Nikon sensors will be able to better compete with Canon's full frame cameras, and get better edge to edge sharpness than Canon.
lanegreene Posted 11 years ago. Edited by lanegreene (member) 11 years ago
I'm given to understand that a larger sensor has inherently less noise and greater dynamic range than a smaller sensor with the same number of pixels--everything else being equal. But everything else doesn't remain equal.

So what I want to know is: will Nikon make the advances I'd like to see in A) noise control, and B) dynamic range that their competitors (the 5D and the Fuji S5, far as I can tell) currently have the edge on, without going full frame? I'm not an expert in this stuff. I just want a D70 with better high ISO and noise control (and I'm $1100 into DX glass, by the way). I'd pay a good bit for that. Otherwise I'll hold onto my D70 till it falls apart in my hands.

Can I expect that? Y'all with actual tech expertise?
roger_burd 11 years ago
I have been told by D200 owners that the D200 (with the same physical size sensor as the D70) has better dynamic range and lower image noise at high ISO settings. I am sure that Nikon is researching how to improve on this for all price range of new DSLRs.
itakebadpictures 11 years ago
don't you all worry, Rupert Murdoch will buy Nikon and Canon soon, and then they will both suck.

Apologies for the political commentary....
lanegreene 11 years ago
And AOL and Sony and Viacom, and we will all be corporate slaves. What? Please make a *relevant* political point, if you must.
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
Roger: Several full-frame cameras have already been made for the F-mount by Kodak. They had some serious issues, but the Nikkor lenses worked fine.
_Blake Adam 11 years ago
Their laughing at us I tell ya, laughing!!!

www.flickr.com/groups/canon5d/discuss/72157601231203819/
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
Several full-frame cameras have already been made for the F-mount by Kodak.


Not to mention all of the people using Nikkor glass on the 5D.
scubapup 11 years ago
@pilgrim: lol, im amused by the cyclical link swapping :)
OldUncleMe PRO 11 years ago
The number one reason for Nikon to produce a FF sensor is:
"All of the clamor!"

/..
Aardvark For Freedom 11 years ago
Screw the D3X... I want some of NT's pocket cash... Dude buys and sells more gear than Ebay!!! :o)

*Just playin' with ya NT...
DoF Punk 11 years ago
Everytime this rumour gets posted, i cut myself a little bit... just so i can feel again.
NTconcepts 11 years ago
: ) I work like a dog...... p.s. anyone need new flooring?
lanegreene 11 years ago
It's going to be hilarious when they announce a D40Y and start putting it in Happy Meals, instead of a full-frame or something else all of us want.
photodillon 11 years ago
It will be interesting to see what happens here with the next Nikon pro release. For one, I would be a bit surprised if they go with a full-frame rather than the DX size sensor due to the release of all of the DX specific lenses. Of course, I could be missing something and they all could be compatible with either DX or full frame 35mm size sensor.

Frankly, I believe that the density and capabilities of the sensor is the key. As electronics (semiconductors) continues to see advances in performance and size reduction, we may see higher and higher resolutions out of smaller and smaller sensor sizes. Already, the D2x (and the D200 for that matter) produce phenomenal images with amazing resolution. I am anxiously awaiting the announcement for the next 12MP+ professional grade DSLR from Nikon... I want to get another camera body soon. When we get a new release, hopefully the D2x will dip in prices so I can pick up one or two for cheap before people realize that this camera will be viewed for years as legendary.

If Nikon releases anything that will not be compatible with my lenses, speed lights, chargers, batteries, and the array of gear that I have, I will not be upgrading any time soon.

A representative from Nikon USA (who shall remain nameless) told me that the internal "rumor" is that there should be a pro-dSLR release in September.
Brian Reiter PRO 11 years ago
@photodillon

I would expect to see a fast sports D2h replacement positioned to compete with the Canon EOS 1D mkIII.
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
I would be a bit surprised if they go with a full-frame [on the next pro body] rather than the DX size sensor due to the release of all of the DX specific lenses.


Um....I count one (1) pro-level DX lens (17-55mm f/2.8)....maybe the 12-24, but I hesitate on that. Anyway, the last "pro" and "midrange" lenses Nikon released were FF (105 Micro VR and 70-300 VR), I would imagine at least the 70-300mm would have been DX if they had no intention of releasing FF ever. It would have saved a lot of money and size.
nb-photo 11 years ago
Nikon remains committed to film SLR's with the F6.
the 17-55mm f/2.8 has to be DX to provide a wide lens for the digial bodies. The 105 Micro VR and 70-300 VR do not need to be DX, therefore they are not DX. This means that can be sold to Digital and Film users alike which reduces development and stocking costs and gives them a greater potential sales figure.
scubapup 11 years ago
committed to film?

www.nytimes.com/2006/01/12/technology/12nikon.html?ex=129...

but i guess if the F6 is one of those two cameras that wasnt culled
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brnpttmn 11 years ago
Nikon remains committed to film SLR's

I guess if you call gutting their whole film line-up except their best (f6) and worst (fm10-not even a nikon) models a "commitment," then yeah.
nikonconvert 11 years ago
Don't forget the 10.5 - it is clearly pro grade glass.

Nobody is committed to film - the F6 is a beautiful camera but it is a way for Nikon to get the last money from a dying breed. (By film I am refering to 35mm film).
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Ryan Brenizer PRO 11 years ago
Not only is the F6 the last film camera that Nikon makes (Cosina makes the FM10), a big part of the reason it wasn't on the chopping block is that it used a lot of the same parts as D2-level DSLRs, so less manufacturing space is devoted to making film-only parts. It's astonishing how fast film became a niche.
James Kaarremaa 11 years ago
I think I'll just shell out the $30,000 for a medium format digital and stop worrying about full-frame.
nikonconvert 11 years ago
jamesrdoe

I have a friend who just bought a back for his Hassy - I think he spent about $15k on it - he refuses to use 35mm digital and this was his way around it. It is pretty damn cool though!

The funny thing is that before the Mark III came out, the Canon rumor mongers were thinking D1sMark ??? 22+mp and a new mount - going to wrap the whole digital world up in one market.
DSP (Digital Soft Paw) 11 years ago
@nikonconvert --

I think if Canon changes its mount format again we will see a massive migration back to Nikon where everybody will be happily suffering in DX hell. There's no reason for Canon to change mounts other than to piss off their loyal customers. It took me a long time to forgive them when they dogged me on the FD lenses.
nikonconvert 11 years ago
DSP

I hear you. When I owned my Canon gear I followed those forums and it was amazing - there was much anger and yet nothing ever came of it. What I like about life is that the pie is big enough for all of us. If I shot only portraits or lots of lanscapes, I would believe that DX is hell. For what I do, I will never go below 1.3 and believe that the DX is awesome.
nb-photo 11 years ago
The way i see it, DSLR's (of all brands) are a comprimise on quality, shooting speed and size. They are not designed to shoot landscapes or portraits really. Neither are they designed to fit in the pocket and shoot night out pics in bars. For these tasks there are specialist cameras.
The SLR and DSLR are allrounders, they are jack of all trades, but masters of action, sports, wildlife etc. ie its the long lenses, high frame rates and fast AF that sets them appart from other camera formats.
I notice the killer USP for the new Canon 1DMk3 is its high frame rate, not its 10.7mp sub full frame sensor.
When the D2x first came out, many reviews compared it very favorably with the 1DSMK2 despite its smaller sensor, and better than the FF Kodak of the time. What has changed in the mean time? The introduction of the prosumer 5D may have something to do with the FF obsession. Selling the enthusiast the dream of the 4 grand Canon, when they could produce exaclty the same shot with a cheaper body and suitable lens. Im starting to wonder if its not some very clever Canon marketing campain to sell more expensive enthusiast cameras.
Ioja Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Ioja (member) 11 years ago
I'm not sure what all this yammering will achieve, other than a flood of D200 and D2's on the market.
There goes the resale price of our equipment.

I'm glad I still have my old D3000HP. It is still my favorite and I would not trade it for anything.
Nikon D3000, not D200, D300, D2x,D2h or F3HP.
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