Ross Harvey | PRO 10:44am, 25 October 2008
I'm ' ' that close to buying a D700 with 24-70/2.8 (and the rest!) - amazing camera. Only thing that is bugging me is the noise, when testing it in-store it seemed very loud.

Is it loud enough to be a distraction at weddings?

UPDATE: The answer is no - thanks to all who replied.
wilvoeka 10 years ago
The larger mirror of a full frame camera will make a bit more noise, because it takes more umph to move it.


You have to remember that your ears are rite next to the camera so you may want to see how it sounds when someone else shoots it from about 5 or 10 feet away.

I dont think you will ever hear anyone complain your camera is too load. The Canon 5D is just as loud(I owned one) as the D700(which I use now) and alot of wedding shooters use the 5D and D3 without issues.
That's good enough for me - thanks.
Mitch Goddard PRO 10 years ago
At least you're not using a Koni-Omega Rapid M
[ Noktor-Matic ] 10 years ago
try using a D3 at a wedding its even louder
who cares if it makes noise,
wait are you a professional?
if you are then who cares?
if you're an amateur sell your gear
you don't deserve it
Mitch - beast!

noki - no need to get brand-defensive, it was a simple question, as I'd read a few comments about the shutter being too loud. You better go hunt them down and let them know it's time to sell their kit :)
preciouskhyatt 10 years ago
Ross - I've used mine for both outdoor and indoor weddings - no compaints about the noise to date, so I'll say you should probably be OK

jay richards 10 years ago
when i shoot a wedding people are generally really impressed with the sound of the shutter, so i don't mind.
Thanks again, was hoping it wouldn't be an issue. Some Vicars can be rather particular about flash/positioning and noise during a ceremony.
able stamp [deleted] 10 years ago
I've only shot one wedding with mine so far, but the loud shutter made people stop and pay attention. Great for posed shots.
AndreasC 10 years ago
When I saw the title of this thread, for a moment I thought you were referring to the kind of noise for the lack of which the D700 (and the D3) are justly famous :o)

Anyway, a friend of mine shoots about fifteen weddings a year, and the (click-clack) noise of his D700 has not been a problem for him.
I've shot 2 so far with my D700 and no complaints of funny looks whatsoever. It's a non-issue IMO.
Sheldon&Kelly 10 years ago
I was recently at a wedding that had two photographers shooting during the ceremony. One had a D700 and the other was shooting with the 5D ( something i noticed of course). They were both from the same outfit, so I'm not sure why one had a Nikon and the other had a Canon. Personal preference I guess. Anyway, I was about the same distance between the two and neither camera sounded louder than the other. I did notice on more than one occasion members of the audience looking back at the guy with the D700 ( i was in the back of the church with my infant son, so I had a unique perspective). The guy with the 5D had a zoom lens with more reach so he may have been further away from the main audience. I don't think it interfered with the ceremony in any way though.
deserted copper [deleted] 10 years ago
Uh. Who are you to say who deserves what?
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
I think what nokijuF is inferring is that professional wedding photographers don't worry about the sound of the camera. They are paid to do a job and they do it. The end.
mm_rivrep Posted 10 years ago. Edited by mm_rivrep (member) 10 years ago
If you need it, you deserve it.

If you don't need it but you can afford it and want it, you deserve it.

The more people that buy it, the cheaper it will become and the more research will be put into developing an even better successor.

Market economics work to everyone's advantage in photo gear like in almost any other product.
mingyahu 10 years ago
lol this is why it doesnt come with video recording!

but seriously,, used at several wedding/ christenings and no complaints whatsoever about "noise" but i love its low noise
dooda 10 years ago
I agree with nokijuF.

Sell it now. You clearly don't deserve it.

Also, are you a professional driver? If not, yeah, I'm gonna need you to sell that too. You don't deserve it.

Also the kitchen stuff. Are you a chef? No you say? I think you get the point.
eystein.aarseth 10 years ago
There are two products that help reduce the noise from the camera:
The relatively cheap and easy to use Camera Muzzle (Check out Rob Galbraith's review) and the very expensive, hard to use but much more effective Jacobson Sound Blimp.
Had the D700 dropped $300 in the US recently?
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
The only photographers I know that have ever worried about shutter noise were still photographers for feature films. They used to have to shoot during filming so it was a big deal.

Not anymore. The stills guys shoot during the dry runs. Noise doesn't matter. So... if loud camera shutters are OK for million dollar film projects, I'm sure that for your $400 weddings you'll be alright.

If the bride does complain, bring out the digital rebel you learned on. That should be plenty quiet.
able stamp [deleted] 10 years ago
Denny: or shoot the whole thing with the oldest digital point and shoot you can find. I have a 2mp Olympus in a drawer somewhere...
mo'funk 10 years ago
No. :)

I was at a wedding and several guest had those disposable film cameras. Every shot, you'd hear scrape scape srap snap every time they advanced the film. It was sooo LOUD and long ! LMAO An airplane overhead would have been quieter.
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
Didn't those Olympus cameras have the fake shutter sound? That might be too loud.
[ Noktor-Matic ] 10 years ago
note to those amateurs here
you clearly don't know how annoying it is to professionals now that digital photography is so easy to get into
its YOU people who are making us lose money
hence why i said SELL IT
just stick to a freaking point and shoot and leave the DSLR stuff to us
we've worked our asses off to earn this gear
why the hell should you guys have it?

everyday i see people walking around
oh i've got a DSLR i'm a professional
i ask for a business card? where is it?
no where,
do they have a website?
no they don't
are their shots good?
so as i said before

amateurs don't deserve DSLRs
entry level okay
but professional level? NO

excuse my language
cteteris 10 years ago
oh crap! I must have missed the memo that said 'to choose to spend your money on a dslr, you need buisness cards and a website.' damn...

uhh... anyone wanna buy a slightly used (amature use, only - of course) D700? it's wrong of me to own it; but I've been enlightened.

time to dig out my little point and shoot that's somewhere under the bed. wouldn't want my pictures (that I take purely for my own entertainment, and don't pretend to think are any good) making a professional some how lose money.
Rob Sanderson Photography Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Rob Sanderson Photography (member) 10 years ago
"its YOU people who are making us lose money hence why i said SELL IT"

Really? I don't think I've lost any business to an ameteur totally different market/price point. If its someones hobby its their money let em spend it how they wish.

Next we'll only let real chefs have sharp knifes LOL

As to the original question, some churches let you shoot some don't, if they do then the noise isn't an issue your movements could be a bigger distraction, learn to be invisible and silent.
brnpttmn 10 years ago
With all due respect nokijuF tiB-8 | MSP...GO TO HELL. If amateurs are taking your business maybe you're just not that good and you should spend less time here disparaging "amateurs" here and put in some practice so you can differentiate yourself from those amateurs. Pathetic.
Ross Finnie [20Hz] 10 years ago
Wow, what a dickhead.
mm_rivrep Posted 10 years ago. Edited by mm_rivrep (member) 10 years ago
@Twentyhertz: As happens often, I find myself agreeing with you. And cosmic, cteteris and rob are right on too.

It's a free world. You get to buy what you want with your own money and you get to do what you want with what you buy. Freedom's a wonderful thing.
Sheldon&Kelly 10 years ago
I know this topic is way off subject and my previous response was on topic, but I have to respond to this guys who thinks that certain people don't deserve certain cameras. Beyond the who are you to decide argument (and it is a good one) lets look at the economics of scale aspect of it.

If you honestly think that the DSLRs that YOU shoot with today would be anywhere near as advanced as they are now if an armature like myself were not buying them too, then you are sadly mistaken. Canon, Nikon, etc. would have little incentive to constantly update their products if the market only consisted of professionals and students. In the last ten years the investment in technology driving digital photography has been financed by amatures. You shoiuld be thanking us for making YOUR life better. Instead of still being stuck in a darkroom because digital photography has not advanced far enough for you to use it professionally, you now have the flexiblity to take more shots, edit better and make an otherwise disastrous photoshoot salvageable with computer software.
Sheldon&Kelly 10 years ago
Also, I forgot to mention that without the enthusiast market, that DSLRs would probably cost triple what they do now and perform half as well. With a market of photography enthusiasts as well as professionals, R&D costs are spread out among a larger group. Competition is also a driving force behind competitive pricing, but fewer manufactures would likely be in the DSLR market and prices would still be higher.
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
" In the last ten years the investment in technology driving digital photography has been financed by amatures."

This is nonsense. Kodak along with many other companies were spending tons of money on R&D well before the DSLR market crossed over into amateur territory.
Sheldon&Kelly 10 years ago
Yes, and it took 100+ years to see the quality in film that we see now after only 10 to 15 years of digital R&D. If there was not as large a market for digital photography as there is now, there is no incentive to dump hundreds of millions into R&D. There has to be a payback for these companies. Enthusiasts make up a significant part of that market.
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
Honestly, you've got it backwards.

Most amateurs don't know any better. If the marketing people told them that a 2MP camera that functioned about as well as a Kodak DCS420 was the top of the line they would buy it.

Professionals were the one spurring on the market, because professionals have higher expectations on how things perform.

I suppose that professional race car drivers should be thanking you as well since without all of us amateurs they wouldn't have fast cars. And professional musicians too.Without the huge demand from amateur musicians for quality guitars everyone would be stuck playing with strings nailed to a 2X4.
preciouskhyatt 10 years ago
I thought it was the space-based military applications crossed with bleeding tech from the solid-state memory market that drove digital sensor development, and not professional photographers...
Sheldon&Kelly 10 years ago

For the sake of argument, lets say you are right and that a broad market does not influence what a company like Nikon produces and that the D700 would have been made if an enthusiast market for the camera did not exist. So instead of selling 100,000 cameras, they will only sell 20,000 (or whatever that number may be). How much does the D700 now cost a professional photographer?
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
You know what? "Sheldon&Kelly", I thank you from the very bottom of my heart. Without you I would be "stuck in a darkroom". Without you digital photography would not exist.

Without professional photographers setting the standard for image quality and equipment performance amateurs wouldn't have anything to base their idea of quality from.
Sheldon&Kelly 10 years ago original post was not directed at you, but I have had a nice back and forth with you on this subject Denny.

I'll make my point again: DSLR tech would not be as far as it is today and as cheap as it is today if there were not a broader market for it beyond the professional photographers.

I was not trying to say that high end camera equipment does not trickle down to the enthusiast and eventually point and shoot markets. There will always be early adopters for the very best. But my point can be made with the D3.

The D3 and the D700 are very very similar cameras. Much of the R&D that went into the D3 and the D700 are the same. In my opinion, the D3 should probably cost several thousand more than it does now. Instead it is very competitively priced and is in most ways superior to Canon's 1D. Now, I'm sure that Nikon is making plenty of money on this camera and covering its admin, labor and material costs associated with producing it. I'm sure though that Nikon pushed off some of the cost of R&D to the D700 even though the tech was there already. Nikon could do this because they knew that the market for the D700 is different. Professionals? Sure, but also an enthusiast market of casual shutter bugs. I'm guessing that was factored into a lot of the development of the FX series of cameras and it also influenced pricing. The result is excellent cameras that are priced within reach of many people.

There has always been an enthusiast market for some professional photography cameras, but it was not nearly as large as it is now. This is a good thing as I was trying to point out to Noki (who I now think was just trying to get everyone riled up and start rants like the one I am writing now. At this point in my response I regret even getting involved.)
The only pros who have reason to worry about rich amateurs are those whose photos look like they could be taken by rich amateurs.
Tom/Hancks Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Tom/Hancks (member) 10 years ago
I don't deserve an upgrade to D700 because I'm an amateur . I just want to say that there are professional photographers and morons out there which of course is a huge difference.

Cheers guys.
deserted copper [deleted] 10 years ago
[ Noktor-Matic ] Posted 10 years ago. Edited by [ Noktor-Matic ] (member) 10 years ago
@ cosmic jeebus!
i'm not losing business
i'm just having to compete with shitter rates
yeah i give the quality my clients ask for but they always compare the prices to those fucking amateurs
so what can would you do if you were inthat sittuation?
lose a client or drop your price?

the amateurs are the ones who don't understand that
i don't mind those amateurs who actually seek out help from professionals
but those who just go into a camera shop
buy the most expensive DSLR they can get
and walk out saying
why don't i just be a professional?
those must be stopped,
if you're a self respecting professional photographer
you'd know what im on about

@Sheldon&Kelly nikon kept the price lower than the 1Ds since it wanted to compete against the 1D mk3
though its better than both cameras,
i can give you a million reasons why without mentioning the word canon

but yeah the 1Ds mk3 $ 5D mk2 are basically useless due to the fact that yeah it has 21mp but! its pixel density is smaller than the D3/D700's (the nikon FX sensor is a 9micron sensor with a wider pixel spacing and the 1Ds/5D sensor is only 5/6 microns and is so tightly compacted together)
when you look at the 1Ds/5Dmk2 files at 100% you'll see alot of chromatic abberation aswell as pixel drop off basically you're wasting so many pixels as for the D3/D700 you're not losing anything because its all large, hence why the D3/D700 have very high dynamic range on standard ISO's aswell as unmatchable noise reduction
i've gotten my hands on a 5D mk2 and compared the files
even in RAW the D700 beats the mk2 by 10football fields because its the sensor

and with what denny said

amateurs DON'T know any better thats why you're all getting defensive
and yeah
thank you all amateurs because i'm not stuck inside a darkroom
instead im sitting behind a computer getting FAT

as for the reason why i have a D700?
i got the D700 because i NEEDED it
not because i wanted it,
honestly if i wanted i would have bought a hasselblad
but the thing is i bought it since its in my price range and because i need it for work

as i said before
its the amateurs who are ruining our lives!
you may all think its you who are making the industry boom
but honestly
its NOT again i quote what denny said
its us who are the reason why you idiots know about megapixels
and image sensors
if it wasn't for professionals well to be more specific
digital photography wouldn't EXIST
so shut up and sit down amateur leave it to the pro's
cold digestion [deleted] 10 years ago
all i can say is... I MISS FILM!!!
there is a wedding photographer that I know wow still uses film... and she rockssssss!! COUNTER THAT U DIGITAL PEOPLE!!!
:P im just joking... hehehe...

but yeah, im really really frustrated and annoyed when i'm approaching a client to do a shoot, then they compared the price that i quoted to them with another person who offered to shoot the thing for FREE. how am i suppose to compete with that? I have all this investments in not only equipments, but time too... and then there's this person who barged around from who-knows-where, with his/her new shiny DSLR...who thinks that they are so AMATEUR and that they will not charge anyone for their photography (oh believe me, there are many of you that actually have this mentality!)...

It's just not fair and not respectful for the photography industry. Yeah you can be a hobbyist.. but don't go barging on someone else's territory.

Another example: going to a friend's wedding with a DSLR and shooting it, while ur friend already hire a pro to shoot the wedding. That's just disrespectful to the professionals... that's not ethical.

Another thing that annoys me are people who don't have a clue on how to work an SLR/DSLR in manual mode .. but go buying a pro SLR or DSLR like a d700 or d3. i mean.. COME ON! ><
[ Noktor-Matic ] 10 years ago
lol @ grace
come on people!
the world is in an economic crisis!
spend your money on something else other than camera gear (unless you're a professional ofcourse since thats your money maker)
but yeah
its YOU amateurs who are making it harder for us to get far....
we have mouths to feed to you know
we're not accountants or doctors
so as i said before
point and shoots
or bottom level DSLRs
or just don't even try

if you want to brag to me about having an SLR camera
show me you can use a 30/40 year old film camera
with no autofocus, no auto metering, no instant review,
pure raw image capture gear,
if you can use that then i'll respect you
but if you just think that digital is th eonly way then SCREW you
Tom/Hancks 10 years ago
I totally understand your point guys , people who live of photography can't deal with another who probably do mediocre work for less money .
Ross Finnie [20Hz] 10 years ago
Personally, I think it's exactly the same in a lot of the creative industries - the advent of accessible digital technology is scaring a lot of the stupid dinosaurs who're scared of new creative minds coming in and competing with them.

I'm also a musician, and I know of a lot of producers/studio owners who initially got pretty hacked off with the fact that with the ever-increasing availability of computers, anyone could record, mix, and master an album on their own without having to pay the huge fees demanded by a lot of studios. In this case, it was the studios who took innovative approaches to using/selling the use of their equipment who rose above the dinosaurs and let the quality of their work speak for itself.

And Fujikon, this idea that because I have a D700 and am not a professional means that I can't work a camera is completely and utterly wrong. Although I started with digital for economic reasons, I've done a lot of shooting on various meterless manual cameras, everything from medium format TLRs to 35mm rangefinders and a whole pile of stuff in between.

If you think I'm going to not take photos because I'm stamping on some idiotic dinosaur's shoes, you're wrong. On the rare occasions where I take on paid work, I charge what I see as a reasonable fee for my time and the work I put into a shot. If there's a job I don't feel I could take on and do a good job, I won't take it. If that happens to offend someone else, tough - business life in the real world is always competitive, and if you're gonna insist on charging the top dollar prices, you've now gotta have the quality to back that up. Where in the past a lot of photographers may have managed to survive just on the basis of being the only person around with the right gear, that comfort zone is being eroded away and people are just going to have to deal with that.
deserted copper [deleted] 10 years ago
Well said.
preciouskhyatt 10 years ago
This is so good it made my night; thanks!

Digital photography is due to photojournalists, is it?


As I had posted above, we all owe our thanks for digital photography to the fact that the US of A needed a way to get their spy images back from their Corona satellites. They used to have the film canisters (using mylar of all things as film) parachuted back to terra firma in the beginning, but they advanced to digital sometime in the mid to late 1960's. The trickle-down effect meant that five to eight years later the public began to see the first commercially available sensors (1973+).

And that is 'professional'; what we do is recreational, some of us just get paid to do it.
Sheldon&Kelly 10 years ago
Nokiju -

I was not saying that the Nikon D3 was anything other than an excellent camera. My point was that it could easily cost $2,000 more and still be worth it to a professional. Nikon CAN be very competitive with Canon by pushing some R&D expenses off onto a camera that has wider appeal to a larger base of photographers like the D700. This lowers YOUR cost of ownership and pushes Nikon to keep developing better tech.

After looking at your photo stream, I'm not sure why you are having trouble with amateur photographers. You are obviously a professional and I personally would not be interested in doing what you do. If there are amateurs out there giving you a run for your money, then you are not marketing yourself the right way. I am being very serious. If I were to show a client my "portfolio" and you show yours, I'm not sure how you would have trouble landing the job.

No professional should feel threatened by an enthusiast like myself. I personally have zero desire to shoot weddings, graduation pictures, etc. But I do take personal satisfaction in taking excellent pictures of my family with excellent equipment. Nothing wrong with that. And we still find our way into a professional studio to have our family portrait taken. I'm not sure how people like myself are doing anything but helping the industry.
tomasito1968 Posted 10 years ago. Edited by tomasito1968 (member) 10 years ago
I see, you guys are steering away from this topic... My personnel humble opinion is where absolute silence is need it ... like in a good healthy budget movie set ($ 5 mil and above), the Nikon D700 or the D3 are way too loud to shot in that condition even with the Jacobson's blimp usage (some cameras like an early Nikon models or the Canon 5D is virtually silence with the same or similar blimp). Of course you can use these cameras during full scene rehearsals unless if the actor has an objection to it. Where is wedding ... I don't do wedding and I hope will never do... but there is no silence wedding as far as I know. Therefore, I would assume camera noise loudness is not an issue. Beside the loudness of the D700 camera it is indeed a topnotch camera on any level.
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
"like in a good healthy budget movie set ($ 5 mil and above), the Nikon D700 or the D3 are way too loud to shot in that condition even with the Jacobson's blimp usage"

I've worked on a few high budget films and TV series. The photographers are using D3's and Canon 1Ds. They're not worried about the noise because they usually shoot the stills during rehearsals. These people are paid to do this. The directors know this and everybody works around it.
Ryan Brenizer PRO 10 years ago
Heh @ Ken.
mm_rivrep 10 years ago
As this subject has wandered all over the place allow me some random pedantic thoughts.

1/ A good photographer with bad gear will usually produce better work than a bad photographer with good gear.

2/ Point 1 applies to both pros and amateurs.

3/ Technically superior gear is an asset to the professional and an investment in his business.

4/ Technically superior gear is a pleasure for the amateur who "deserves" whatever he can afford. We all get to do what we want with our money.

5/ Whether amateur or professional, most of us will never be as good as the increasingly superb gear we own. That is certainly my case. My gear is capable of far better than I am. That's the way it should be because the only way to go is up which is why I deserve my gear. So there.

6/ It is perfectly acceptable to buy a D700 and never take a decent picture with it, just like it's acceptable to buy a Lamborghini and only drive it to go to the supermarket. Put your D700 on a shelf, build a shrine around it, use it as a bookend or a hammer, give it to your kid for Christrmas. It's your camera bought with your money. You deserve it.

7/ Technically superior gear is developed to cater to a market of pros and amateurs combined. The pros lead, the amateurs follow. We need both.

8/ While professionals may lead that market in their need for superior quality thereby driving up technical excellence, the amateur buyers help to increase the user base for a model and hereby help keep the prices down. Everybody wins.

9/ The fundamental difference between pro and amateur is the fact that the pro lives from his photography and the amateur does something else to make his living.

10/ The pro pays his taxes based on the earnings from his photographic business while too many amateurs don't declare their occasional earnings (at least where I live). That is disloyal (and illegal) in an ethical sense but not in a photographic sense.

11/ Smile.... click.
dooda 10 years ago
I just love it when elitist professionals cry about amateurs crowding their market, as if they have some kind of entitlement to the rates they get despite market fluctuations. There's a real world out there dude. Get with the program. There's no security in life. Your rants make me want to go out there and offer my services for pennies out of spite.

I laugh at all the people around here trying to sell their home over market value because they believe that it's worth it while it just sits vacant doing nothing. Sorry dude, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Not a penny more.

NokijuF, you should get a job in a well established union. It would suit you way better.
[ Noktor-Matic ] 10 years ago
a job in a union?
you mean join union
[ Noktor-Matic ] 10 years ago
@ preciouskhyatt
actually look up the history of digital slrs
it started with photojournalists, they needed a quick and easy way to get their shots back to the press companies

as for the spy cameras, thats a different story
yeah digital gear has been available since the 60's
the internet was invented in the 40's/30's

but! as i stated Digital SLR technology was developed for photojournalists.....
read your photography and camera history
cold digestion [deleted] 10 years ago
i think we should really start a new topic argument/discussion thingy.. as we have basically push this way out of topic from the real title... LOL
cteteris 10 years ago
gosh, , I think you're REALLY missing what's been said here. Us amateurs DON'T DESERVE this camera. we are to spend our disposable income in some other way. you see... it makes the pros uncomfortable when they see us inferious class of human (because, of course, they are the pinacle of human existance, so much so that free market economics do not apply to them). \

Oh no, you see, what's been alluded to, but not explicitly said, so forgive me, if I misinterpret you, our professional, demi-god friends, is that ONLY money earned through photography may be spend on higher end camera equipment. Check with Nikon, it's official policy. The only reason that D700s and hell, D3s, for that matter, are sold in "consumer camera shops" is for the ease of out pampered friends. the rest of us are not buy them. we're definitly not allowed to test them out in shop. and they would prefer it if we didn't even look directly at these devine machines.

Sadly, I'm dissappointed in our otherwise, wise and sophistacated friends, in that they haven't discovered that those who pretend to be professionals and undercut them tend to be using the entry level crap that it's proposed we sub-humans resort back to. In my experience with idiots who try to market themselves as photographers, it's one of those minions with a D40x or a entry level model of the company which shall not be named, who run around trying to sell their shots. I have specific examples of people that do that, if our untrusting friends need evidence. (I ridicule them enough on my own, I don't need to post their embarassing websites up here for everyong else to do the same.) I KNOW my shots are substantially better than these anti-pros, but because I've got a camera that's way better than I could possibly ever aspire to be, I know that they still suck, although they satisfy my recreational needs, but have no intention of making money off the d700... which I clearly don't deserve in the first place.

Being an enlightened amateur perhaps, I can present our superior caste with a suggestion. Also, aluded to, but never explicitly said: the people who are willing to pay for the crap that these "ohmygod,Ijustgotadslr" type anti-pros are charging for deserve to hire them. If those clients are that easily fooled, and think that showing up with a camera that's barely better than the point and shoot that they've got at home is a sign of a photographer, and not actually looking at their portfolio... let them. they're probably not the type of person that would consider spending the money on a real pro anyways, you never had that market.

oh shit... there I go... I forgot that real world economics don't apply to these nobel men and women... shame on me and my inferior world views.....
assorted songs [deleted] 10 years ago
Hello every body. I am new to this forum. As a beginner too,I plan to get the D700 this weekend. Is there anything I should check on the camera? I have like 10 days to exchange it. Also I am inspired by the anime Flag. I hope that I can be like a photographer like the girl in anime.
I think that the problem that annoys professional photographer is that DSLR make it very convinent to share pictures and some people are getting in the head about being a professional photographer just because they can shoot a picture. But on the other hand hobbiest photographer existed for many years. Just because a hobbiest like to buy a new camera, it doesn't mean that he/she thinks of themselves as professional. Just those who got that idea in the head does. Like those web companies. Oh just because I know programming, I am going to start a company and be NBC or google. Look at revision3. They just laid off 1/3 of their company.
preciouskhyatt 10 years ago
nokijuF -

you said this - "if it wasn't for professionals well to be more specific
digital photography wouldn't EXIST"

Neither you nor I said anything about dSLR, got it? About digital photography, that's all.

If you think that PJ's are the ones who drove the need for rapid image transfer from the field, hey, opinions are ubiquitous...
mm_rivrep Posted 10 years ago. Edited by mm_rivrep (member) 10 years ago
cclovec says: Is there anything I should check on the camera? I have like 10 days to exchange it.

A few (very few) people have had hot pixel(s). Apart from that, check the noise at 3200. You won't exchange it. Trust me.
mm_rivrep Posted 10 years ago. Edited by mm_rivrep (member) 10 years ago
cteteris, I got your point so I tried to sell my D700 to buy a Mercedes instead but they told me that I had to be a Taiwanese professional taxi driver to deserve a Merc. Damn, I'm stuck with a D700 that I don't deserve.

I also got an abusive FlickrMail from a Dickhead© about this thread. The world is full of Dickheads. Noticed?

PS: I made my living from marine photography (and nothing else) for over 16 years. I shot inside and out of over 4000 luxury yachts for the charter and yacht brokerage industry all over the world. Never once did an "amateur" with a 'blad or a Nikon take a job away from me. But that was before the D700, and even before digital for that matter. If you know your job, you're an irreplacable professional and neither the gear nor amateur "competition" has anything to do with that. Only those who doubt their own competence need worry.
cteteris 10 years ago
mm_rivrep LOL. people are ridiculous. fully entertaining though :D Dickheads are funny.
I was going to propose that we start a new group, (very exclusive, of course,) for people who are stuck with this camera even though they don't deserve it. although... considering you've done the pro-photog thing, maybe we'll have to adjust the requirements to people who don't deserve this camera because they're not making their living from photography RIGHT NOW. hahaha.....

oh... I LOVE this bit too....
Only those who doubt their own competence need worry.

if you look at a certain superior photographer's profile he has to make it clear that He's A PHOTOGRAPHER, not an ASPIRING photographer. geez... insecurity, much?

lol... camera's great, but the company you'll share is kinda pathetic.... as you can see from this thread ;)
deserted copper [deleted] 10 years ago
My thoughts exactly. I AM NOT ASPIRING!
mausgabe PRO 10 years ago
Damn, I should have made popcorn before I sat down to "watch" this movie!
Fried Toast PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Fried Toast (member) 10 years ago
The D300 Moderator in me just screams to be let out in this thread ;) Guess I'm free to join in the fun, tho' since I'm a nobody here :D

I must be one of the horrible, horrible people that are a pestilence to the fine photography professionals of the world since I haven't deigned to deem myself a "Pro."

Since prices are falling, it's tempting to snag a D700, but... seeing as how I'd upset the natural balance of the Earth by doing so, perhaps I should go buy something else.

Funny thing- I think the D300 group, for the most part, is pretty level-headed. Friend of mine told me that she's scared of posting in the 5D group because they're nasty. Seeing as the D700 is the 5D's contemporary, it makes me wonder if there aren't parallels. Is there something about spending more on a camera that increases the amount of dickheadedness that occurs in people? I'd leave it at a simple, "Grow up!" but y'know what? I highly doubt that the intended recipients would get it.

mm_rivrep, I think your reply most succinctly summed up the entire affair here. That you wrote out such a level-headed reply to this train wreck of a thread is, simply put, amazing. Excellent reply, even if it did cause certain panties to get bunched up.

And, since I don't want to be completely off-topic here, I'll be the 5,234th person in this thread to say, No, the D700 is not too loud for weddings. Well, at least, not in my opinion.

But wait... I guess my opinion doesn't count since I don't make ALL of my money off of photography. Darn it. I need to move into a hovel to make myself fit into my new image a bit better. Nothing like being a second-class citizen!
dooda 10 years ago
"Is there something about spending more on a camera that increases the amount of dickheadedness that occurs in people?"

I think you're onto something there. People get more defensive. They say that the lions in the middle of the pack are the most volatile. They're constantly trying to gain ground in the hierarchy while trying to avoid getting shoved down. Those at the bottom are usually submissive and content to please, and the alpha is top dog so they don't really stress about anything. So it maybe is with the D700. The pros that use it are a little bit paranoid about their place taken up.

For the most part, if you're a pro and you bring something unique and special to the table, people will pay your price. A monkey could be trained to take a lot of the photos that pros take, ie:posing someone smiling at you as they sit on a rock by the water etc.
mm_rivrep Posted 10 years ago. Edited by mm_rivrep (member) 10 years ago
I don't think the "I'm a pro" superiority complex stems from the value of one's gear. It comes from the fact that some people wrongly think that photography is an especially important or elite profession.

The truth is that it's just a job and not a very important one at that. But it is a great job and one that pros are right to enjoy. If they're good pros they're also right to be proud of what they do. Pride without arrogance is classy. Arrogance because of the gear you own is just dumb... and crass.

I made my living from professional photography for many years and enjoyed it but whenever anyone asked me what I did for a living I said "I'm in boating" because my photographic specialty was within the yachting industry. The idea that "I'm a photographer" could be construed as something superior or special or important never occured to me or to my fellow photographers. Different generation might account for that.

There are professions that ARE important. Garage mechanic for instance because we can die if they don't fix our brakes properly. Nurses are important because they care for us when we're sick or injured. Firemen and airline pilots and doctors are important because our lives can depend on them.

But professional photographers? They're just people doing a job like many others. It can be very enjoyable but it's not easy or glamorous being a pro. It's hard work and bravo to those who do it well enough to make their living at it. Bravo to garage mechanics too. It's just as difficult and the gear costs even more than camera gear. Ever looked at the prices of hydraulic lifts?

Professional photographer is nothing to be ashamed of but there's nothing special or important about it either. Some dickheads just haven't understood that.
mingyahu Posted 10 years ago. Edited by mingyahu (member) 10 years ago
i'm just an amateur and i have Nas
if i ever wanted a pro to cover my friends/family wedding the attitude here by some pros certainly helps cut the field of choice down, if i admire your work i will hire you, and if i can afford this and other cameras i may well be able to afford you, please think about that before sprouting stuff.
ala fried toast, where is the moderator?
oh and this from the wedding photog thread, worth a read
mm_rivrep Posted 10 years ago. Edited by mm_rivrep (member) 10 years ago
where is the moderator?

This D700 group has an excellent admin. He allows freedom of speech, even when exercised energetically, and only closes a topic when things get REALLY abusive or out of hand. I think that's only happened once or twice.

Don't think he owns a D700 yet but hey, that doesn't matter. Probabaly doesn't "deserve" one anyway. ;-)
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
Why is this idiotic thread being dragged out?

Let it go.
Ross Harvey | PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Ross Harvey | (member) 10 years ago
On the subject of amateurs undercutting professionals, the industry of photography is no comparison to web/graphic design :¬)

Any person with Dreamweaver and Photoshop (usually both illegal copies, hence no initial financial investment is even necessary) sell themselves as web/graphic designers. And they get work in a particular market, and in all honesty - good luck to them, you have to start somewhere.

If your skills are of a professional/expert level, you will be working in an entirely different market, attracting much higher caliber clients and producing much higher quality work. Clients who want experience and quality are willing to pay for it, and would not even consider a cheaper amateur. They would compare portfolios and the decision would be instant.

I know a local wedding photographer who produces stunning work, consistently. He has no problems whatsoever with demand, in fact there is often too much. Consumers understand the difference in quality and professionalism - and often choose to pay more.

If you (or anyone, in any industry) are losing work to people who are less skilled and a lot cheaper - seriously consider re-evaluating your marketing positioning, budget and strategy.

One thing to consider, being a 'professional', does not equate to an expensive camera, a website and a business card. A professional runs a business, and uses tools to provide solutions. Professionalism is also a personal mental attribute with regard to treatment of others, actions, morals and communication. Some comments here, as everyone will have noticed, are far from professional.

Some interesting points about digital technology development. I mentioned this to a camera enthusiast, who then went on to explain the link between Nikon and NASA. Amazing really, but you can see how technology filters down to the masses over time, as it becomes cheaper to produce and offers profit margins. Lets face it, we'd have none of this technology if it was not profitable to the corporations who supply it :¬)

Edit: Denny, you've spoken a lot on this thread, it seems odd that you're now demanding it to close. Ignoring the emotional comments, there are some good discussions here. I've already learnt a lot about the origins of camera technology!
mm_rivrep 10 years ago
Ross: I know a local wedding photographer who produces stunning work

Good wedding photographers are unsung talents. I could never do it well but those who can are to be admired.

Denny: Why is this idiotic thread being dragged out?

There are plenty of other threads. You don't heve to read this one.
JolietDeltaTango-0505 10 years ago
Seriously, you're fanning a flame war.

And yes I did contribute some to this thread, but if you'd bother to check, it's all on topic.

This stupid amateur vs. pro debate is useless and going nowhere.
Ross Harvey | PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Ross Harvey | (member) 10 years ago
Just for a bit of fun (not aimed at anyone, just quite a funny realisation of many discussions):

EdinburghGary 10 years ago
What an Asshole nokijuF tiB-8 is ;)

I bought a D3, and I can barely turn the thing on. I also have most of the top glass, it looks shiny and new, but bugger me, its complicated.

Can't wait to do my first wedding.


Aide Lee 10 years ago
Valid points being raised here, by both sides.
Tomas Whitehouse 10 years ago
Hey nokijuF tiB-8 MSP.

If an amateur who has freshly bought a dslr is forcing you to lower your prices and causing you to have the opinions you do, what does that say about the level of your photography?
Jerry P. H. 10 years ago
Someone has a major lack of confidence and likely ability, don't they?

cough*nokijuF tiB-8 MSP*cough

Maybe this "pro" needs to sell *his* camera and make room for the better quality amateurs that are putting his business under... lol

Competition is everywhere, in all levels and in all businesses. What defines the successful vs the professional losers is ability to change, adapt and roll with the times. Uselessly flailing about and complaining defines someone as a loser.

If you think it is bad now, wait another year or so when the price of a D3 is at what the price of a D700 is today and you will see 20-30 people at most weddings with D3s and D700s... what will you do then? Complain a little more, perhaps??

Well how about a novel approach... how about differentiating yourself by knowledge, quality and professionalism, something your post indicates that you lack greatly in at the current time.

Maybe you should waste less time complaining and focus more on improving your lacking photography and business skills? That way you would not be in the pickle you are now.

This coming from one of those amateurs with a higher end camera that seems to annoys you so much at the weddings... lol
ill-fated fog [deleted] 10 years ago
I've just joined Flickr and this is the most fun I've had in ages. So funny!! How do you define 'professional' .. someone who makes money from his 'art' or someone who knows HOW to use his resources?

and .. just who is the self named camera-ologist here?

I teach Photography, I own a D700 now because anything less within my affordability bracket (and I'm talking digital) doesn't come anywhere near Film. . I use nothing but manual but I don't call myself a 'professional photographer' .. WHY label yourself? To make you feel better? so ..stop preaching to those who clearly love the art-form of Photography. If you had sold yourself well, you wouldn't have time to sit there feeling sorry for yourself. Enough now .. or you'll get detention after school!
This is priceless! Maybe our angry friend is losing business because he's an incoherent obnoxious and barely literate sociopath?
ill-fated fog [deleted] 10 years ago
absolutely! Well said!
Groups Beta