magnificent card [deleted] 12:29am, 23 March 2008
i want to spend about 1500 on a DSLR camera
have used the cannon b4 with love!
would apreciate any feedback as to which is better and why?
looking at the new cannon eos450 twin lenze..
cath
Brisbane Underground PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Brisbane Underground (member) 10 years ago
If you're after a cannon, I'd recommend you get a new one from somewhere like

clovermachine.net/index.htm

... old antique cannons can blow up in your face.

On the topic of cameras though, I don't think it matters which brand you go with. Canon or Nikon. Go with what you prefer to use.

Think about what brand of camera your friends use. If you want to be able to share hardware, it might be an idea to stick to the same brand.

Also, it seems to be widely believed that the lenses you get with a "lens kit" aren't great lenses. I didn't get the lens kit myself, I bought the body, then went and bought a lens that did what I wanted it to do.
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
haha funny i could find a use for them..maybe i should reconsider my investment....
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
never used a nikon b4
pw-pix PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by pw-pix (member) 10 years ago
Try them in a shop, see which one has controls and menus which make sense to you.
Try a Pentax, Olympus and Sony while you are there.
Think about what focal length lenses you like to use, see which brand has good lenses you can afford in those focal lengths, see if a company like Sigma, Tokina or Tamron offers the lenses you need at a good price.
Do some thinking about your intended use of the camera and lenses, then see which brands offer equipment that is likely to meet those needs at a price that fits your budget.
It isn't an automatic choice between Canon and Nikon.
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
teds camera shop? - have found them extremely unhelpful..as i am uneducated and seem to be waisting their time with questions...
anywhere else? in west
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
ok thankyou very much appreciate it
i love macro shots and also want a remote
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
thankyou..lens to you maybe.......thats why i like pictures...
admin
mugley 10 years ago
v_spec is right.

For photos of naked chicks you need a big blokey Nikon. Photos of naked blokes, on the other hand... that's more a Canon user thing :)
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
hmmm if im a chick taking pics of naked women?
admin
mugley 10 years ago
Nikon, but wear gloves so it doesn't know you're female :)
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
hehe i wont tell if u dont


thanks for advice everyone with the lenzes and cannons and Nicons
@fotodudenz PRO 10 years ago
Has anyone seen my lunch?
admin
mugley 10 years ago
Have you looked down the back of the couch?
pw-pix PRO 10 years ago
I have found Elizabeth Camera Centre (just across Lt Bourke from Camera Action/Camera House) to be decent, they'll take time to help you and offer good prices and you can haggle.
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
Get the 450D it's better than anything else in that price range.

Or you could wait for the Nikon D90 - yourphotoarchive.com/laugh.htm
admin
_barb_ 10 years ago
that's hilarious!
admin
_barb_ 10 years ago
Cath, a nice prime lens, say a 50mm for portraits, will make a far greater difference to the picture quality then the camera brand. kit zoom lenses are crappy crappidycrapcrap.
admin
ziz 10 years ago
i love technical lingo
silvermiketrate 10 years ago
Does it make you horny Ziz?
admin
ziz 10 years ago
no
Ŀiam 10 years ago
nikon kit lenses are crappidycrapcrap build quality but they make nice pictures.
iSabra PRO 10 years ago
Get the canon 450D dont worry about Nikon!! But i wouldnt get the kit lenses... im only saying 450D coz i work for canon hehe
magnificent card [deleted] Posted 10 years ago. Edited by magnificent card (member) 10 years ago
ok im going to the shops and get them to show me...the lenze kits are attractive 2 get 2 affordable lenzes in my pprice range
it will be my once off opppportunity to buy
used to have an old slr think it was pentax was very old with a huge zoom second hand it cost me $500 years ago and the lenze 300
alas thieves stole it ...found it in a creek BLEEDING i was

@pw-pix thanks elizabeth st here i cum love to haggle !
mikebrown3064 10 years ago
Yes I would go into somewhere like Camera Exchange in the city, and get some bipartisan advice from people who are not biased to one brand or another.

Tell them exactly what you want to do with the camera and they will suggest the best one for you.

Places like Michael's & Ted's (retail) will sell you what they have the most in stock, get paid the most commission or what their bosses tell them to move on the day. (No offense to Joel S, but he works in Pro, they are different)

I also agree, no matter what brand you end up with, you are better off with a standard lens (50mm) than the kits lenses they are spitting out these days.
lists&diagrams 10 years ago
no matter what brand you end up with, you are better off with a standard lens (50mm) than the kits lenses they are spitting out these days.

Not necessarily true. A 50mm lens on a cropped sensor is hardly the most versatile of lenses. I agree that every DSLR owner should have one because they pack so much bang for the buck, but Nikon's 18-55mm kit lens is surprisingly sharp. It's not fast and it's not well-built, but if you take care of it and use it with sufficient light, it performs superbly.
pw-pix PRO 10 years ago
Yes, I can never understand the recommendation to get a 50mm in place of a kit lens. Who wants to be stuck with a short tele (protrait lens) for everything?
If you were going get one prime as the first lens, why not a 28mm or the Sigma 30mm F1.4, at leat that would be a "standard" on the APS-C body.
admin
_barb_ Posted 10 years ago. Edited by _barb_ (admin) 10 years ago
I think Cath said she wanted to do portraits, the 50mm seems like a good choice for a portrait lens.
I still got my old kit lens and I very rarely use it anymore. After buying two new primes I only put in on if I have to, and even then I'm usually groaning on the computer afterwards.
mossko 10 years ago
I recommend you buy a decent second-hand camera

I can only speak on the Canon range, as I haven't used the Nikon's much unfortunately.

A second hand Canon 30D even though it's older is much better quality than a 400D or even a 450D

Read this thread
www.flickr.com/groups/canondslr/discuss/72157604216612762/

With dSLR's the most important part is the lens, so invest in good quality lenses and don't worry too much about the latest and greatest camera body

Michaels are a very good camera shop, cnr Londsadale and Elisabeth st. I can't recommend anything out west.
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
I wouldn't say the 30D is better than the 450D.
450D has a 14 bit sensor.
I know the 30D is a step up in build quality, and has a faster fps rate and max shutter speed, as well as a couple of extra features. But really how often is anyone going to need to shoot something at 1/8000 or at 5fps?

The Digic III 12mp 14bit sensor beats the Digic II 8mp 12bit sensor any day, and I guess live view might be an attraction to some people.
Helmacron 10 years ago
I think this lens over body ideal is a fallacy, especially with with digital backs.

Back in the 90's, I'd agree, lens is of utmost importance because back then with film backs, they all do exactly the same thing, pay attention to the film and lenses you use and you can make good with most anything inbetween the two, canon, nikon, olympus, who gives a shit?

But now, with digital backs, not only do they get better each year, all companies use different sensors in their cameras. The best example is Nikon's D300 and D3 right now, and their ability for loss-less, non-noisy high ISO imagery that you can't take with the sensors on a lot of other cameras built by Sony, Olympus, Pentax.

Because the ISO can go so high, and still put out so much quality, it to a degree lessens the need for a fast lens, and once it does that, it changes everything in how you should think about cameras. Sure, the image stills needs to make it's way to the sensor some how, never forget the importance of the lens, but the importance of the body is now just as paramount.

And therefore you shouldn't lessen it reverting to age-old film back thinking. No one is going to swap a Fuji Velvia sensor for a Kodak Supra one.

Oh, and uh, I guess go buy a D40x with kit lenses. I could take just as good photos as I can with my D200 on a D40x so I think that says something.

About the cameras, not me.
pw-pix PRO 10 years ago
Ahh portraits, I must have missed that bit.
Still having only a 50 would be very hard for me as I like and use wide most of the ime.
silvermiketrate 10 years ago
Helmacron- a fast lens means large aperture which means 'arty' narrow depth of field if required, plus large depth of field if required.
A non fast lens means no option for arty narrow depth of field, and only large depth of field.
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
Still, even on the higher end Canon's (5D 1Ds MkII and III) plus the new Nikon D300 and D3, I would avoid shooting anything over 800 iso, and even that is pushing it to an extreme.

But then I guess it comes down to what your tolerance for noise is, I probably wouldn't bother ever shooting anything over 400 iso to be honest, unless they were just snapshots. And this is from the examples i've seen on the web plus my own experience from my 5d. (of course good, even lighting conditions can make it possible to shoot higher)

So yeah, the iso boost features on the 'lower' end camera's in my opinion is pointless. Faster glass is still the way to go, by a long way.
Ŀiam 10 years ago
Even my D40x can take almost perfect photos at 400, and photos with very little noise at 800...
bullseyephoto 10 years ago
buy a 40d. canon glass is much better.
pw-pix PRO 10 years ago
@bullseyephoto, that isn't true in the lower price brackets, nor is it universally true of the expensive lenses.
theurbannexus 10 years ago
Matt... is that your lunch there?

*points to green mouldy thing*
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
god i feel even more dumber
scott_aus 10 years ago
can understand that feeling, was feeling like that when I was reading one of the threads talking about lenses...talk about confusing.

I am thinking about getting a DSLR myself, specifically the Canon 40D, and will have a few questions myself when I can seriously think about getting it (especially after reading these couple recent threads)...but first I need to get a decent paying job!!!
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
Nikon D40x @ 400 iso is far from perfect , and seems to lose a little sharpness from its noise reduction system gallery.photographyreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=88319&a...

That is far more noise than I would settle for in an image.
I mean you wouldn't see it if it was reduced down for web viewing or 4x6 prints. But anything else you'd be wasting your time imo.

That said, I'm just a picky bastard, never mind me.
bullseyephoto Posted 10 years ago. Edited by bullseyephoto (member) 10 years ago
@pw-pix: when was the last time you used a canon prime lens? All my friends are buying nikon gear now because it's sooooooo cheap and all I can say is you get what you pay for. I think the Nikon bodies are ok but I think the canon glass is way superior to Nikkor

And by the way, what's your issue with fixed lenses?
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
@bullseyephoto: As you said, you get what you pay for. The expensive Nikkor glass is just as good as the expensive Canon glass.
bullseyephoto Posted 10 years ago. Edited by bullseyephoto (member) 10 years ago
@Jake: Hi or low price range......canon glass is far superior.
Ŀiam Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Ŀiam (member) 10 years ago
@Jake: I agree that there's a fair bit of noise in that photo. To my amatuer standards I see it as acceptable - but the thing is I don't see that in my photos. Even at 100%+ crop. Perhaps I need to do some big pro quality prints to appreciate it or something.

@Bullseye: As much as I respect your opinion and am hesitant to enter a discussion of this technical nature with my limited knowledge and experience, I think that the general consensus (and from what I've used as well) is that the entry level Nikon lenses are far superior as far as IQ to the entry level canon lenses. I can't speak for pro lenses as all I've used in that category is a 70-200 f/2.8L IS but none of the Nikon stuff.
mikebrown3064 10 years ago
I agree with Jake, and totally disagree with bullseye, actually bullseye, where do you get the info to back up your claims? Or is this a bit of a bait to see who will bite into a N v C debate?

I would say that they are easily on par with each other. Actually in the pro lenses Nikon is slightly more contrasty sometimes giving the appearance of being sharper (not that they are). I have used both systems over the years and am currently Nikon, I shoot side by side with both brands at pro level sports events, and sharpness is never even brought up, (except for the current issue with the MkIII, which I can give you the names of 2 Getty shooters in the past 2 weeks that have had major issues with their MkIII's) But that's not the lenses.

I can't speak for the entry level lenses as I don't have any, but I would say any lens that is made of plastic, has plastic lens mounts or even has the elements made of plastic (yes there are some), has got to be rubbish, no matter what brand it is.
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
looking at the new Canon EOS 450D with twin lenze kit

i cant seem to find if it has remote or wireless

Have used the 400D and this is what a friend is pushing me to buy

can u gurus tell me if its worth the upgrade to the 450d

thanks again
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
@Bifem It's totally worth the upgrade to the 450D, it's a huge improvement over the 400D as far as I can figure from reading the specs. It will be able to use a remote or wireless, it just depends on which of the two controls you want to buy. Canon make both wireless and wired shutter releases. (wireless will obviously cost you more)

Back to the tech talk, I've actually heard that the 1ds mkIII's sensor is showing up 'faults' (esp. chromatic aberrations) in the lenses (L series) because it's actual level of detail is out doing the lenses Canon are making at the moment. Anyone else heard that?
Matt_Lew 10 years ago
Depends really. If you plan on going 40D in the future then I reckon 400D would be better to start off with since you won't need to purchase SD cards and then CF cards as they both use CF cards.
Joel Strickland PRO 10 years ago
For the small price difference between the 400D and the 450D, i would spend the money and go up to the 450D. But i would also consider the Nikon D80
silvermiketrate 10 years ago
Re this Canon versus Nikon- which glass is superior (which really means 'sharper') idea.
Lenses (like the ones we use today) achieved sufficient sharpness early last century.
bullseyephoto 10 years ago
@mbrown: you shoot action and sport right? I am shocked that you would ask me that question, when you are surrounded by fellow pro's all using canon glass. why dont you ask them why they prefer Canon lenses? Or better still, the next time you go to the footy or tennis count the amount of photographers using Nikon gear ok?
Helmacron Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Helmacron (member) 10 years ago
Hi, you're hard to take seriously because you sound like a bitch.

But the answer to your question is yes. More people use Canon because Canon is cheaper. Nikon is exactly the same sharpness, and in some cases, the bullshit technical numbers say that is sharper than Canon, especially with a couple newly released pro-lenses, but one of the main things is Nikon is seemingly much more expensive than Canon.

Plus, Canon is very market savvy. They make lenses that stand out, and they make a million of them. All different shapes with different numbers on them and different names like ELS and EMP and DN and I'm making them up because I don't use Canon, but they're a lot like that, the market is flooded with Canon lenses. Nikon design a couple lenses and don't put out enough to even cover the launch.

Also, I think they might have beat Nikon on a couple features needed for sports photography, like auto-focus or whatnot, but now the auto-focus is pretty fucking good in both companies, so that doesn't matter.

So sharpness isn't the reason why they all use Canon.


Also, to the guy before, yeah, okay, DOF is an important aspect of that I didn't really consider. To me, a fast lense is something that sucks in a shitload of light and makes a coherent image, and the current improving ISO standards mean a lot to me in those terms. I like to take photos at really small apertures anyway, because blurry is just too not my style.
mikebrown3064 10 years ago
@bullseyephoto - Actually it's about 50/50 at the International events. The AFL is more weighted to Canon, but that is due to most shooters being from one or 2 organizations. (Papers and GSP Images), and they are purchased under tender.

Leader News (part of News limited) use 100% Nikon. And I have been seeing more and more Herald Sun shooters using Nikon.

The shooters that were using Canon at Sports events were not doing it due to the glass, it was partly due to the poor noise performance of the PRE - D3 Nikons in low light, but mainly due to the fact that Nikon was far too slow bring out a higher resolution pro sports body to compete with the 1d, they stuck with the D2H way too long. Most of the guys I speak to had Nikon systems before Canon and loved them.

I am not saying that Nikon glass is better than Canon, I am saying that they are in fact on par. Both systems have dogs and both systems have legendary lenses.

Nikon 17-35 One of the best lenses ever made
Nikon 50 & 85 1.4
Nikon 80-200 AFS (and the 70-200)
Nikon 200 f2
Nikon 400 2.8 & 300 2.8 Pin Sharp

Canon 400 f2.8 pin sharp
Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS
Canon 500 f4
Canon 300 f2.8 superb
Canon 200 F1.8 probably in the top 2 lenses ever made.

Not sure about the current Canon wide stuff haven't heard great things, but go and research any of these lenses then come back and tell us that people are complaining about any of them.
derrickprophoto 10 years ago
Personally I think that the "Canon has better glass" arguement coming from someone shooting with a Sony or Panasonic does'nt carry any weight or credibility.
Professionals use Canon or Nikon, depending which system they are heavily invested in. If you want to talk cheap gear, Panasonic and Sony fit the bill.
magnificent card [deleted] Posted 10 years ago. Edited by magnificent card (member) 10 years ago
Helmacron says:
Hi, you're hard to take seriously because you sound like a bitch.

a bitch?
if you want me to be yes i guess i can be just for you
mikebrown3064 10 years ago
I don't think he was talking to you bifem
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
ohh ok..well been called worse believe me
iSabra PRO 10 years ago
@mbrown3064

"Actually it's about 50/50 at the International events. "

Do Nikon lenses have a white barrel? because i cant help to notice a sea of white lenses in International events...
derrickprophoto Posted 10 years ago. Edited by derrickprophoto (member) 10 years ago
Yes, Nikon does have pro lenses with a white barrell. From my experience, it's been Canon 90% Nikon 10%, but over the last 12 months 75% to 25% respectively. Come the Olympics, that will be a far truer guide to the shift in brands.
If there is a significant shift towards Nikon, it will more than likely be to the monumental problems with the MkIII AF problems.
iSabra PRO 10 years ago
AF problem is huge atm
derrickprophoto 10 years ago
So too is the Err 99
mikebrown3064 10 years ago
I should have clarified, International Events that I have covered. Most recent World Superbikes.
bullseyephoto 10 years ago
@mbrown: that is crap 50/50. I just finished at indian wells and I think i saw one guy using nikon gear.
iSabra PRO 10 years ago
@mbrown3064 cool
bullseyephoto 10 years ago
pw-pix PRO 10 years ago
I have no issue with "fixed" lenses (assuming you mean fixed focal length), I use them myself when I think they are thr corect thing for the job. I have no special preference for zooms. Iw as the one suggesting a 28 or 30 mm lens earlier in the thread.
mikebrown3064 10 years ago
OK bullseye, you win, with your vast amount of knowledge and experience that you have shown in this thread, how can I argue. Especially seeing that very unbiased up to date article that you just sent us to on the GEOCITIES web page.

Next time I need to get any advice from I will contact you instead of Dave Black or Moose Peterson.

I never wanted to get into a C v N war but seeing that you wanted to keep shoving the crap down our throats I couldn't help myself. Except the only person in here that wanted to get into a war was you, no one else has bagged out Canon or Nikon apart from you (excluding a couple of comments regarding a well known body issue).

The term "fanboy" is what comes to mind for you so I shall leave it at that. The rest of us that work in the industry will continue to choose whichever system suits the job we are doing at the time, rather than choosing with our hearts.
iSabra PRO 10 years ago
Can we change the topic!? Holden or Ford?
derrickprophoto 10 years ago
Bullseye, feel free to post any of your pictures from the Tennis - the links you posted are somewhat dated.

@aicamelbourne - everyone knows the Holdens are the fastest in Formula 1.
iSabra PRO 10 years ago
@derrickprophoto lol
pw-pix PRO 10 years ago
@ bifemwoman
The 450D will make good pics, if you are happy with the handling and control logic just get it.
The twin lens kit would not be my choice, but it does cover a wide range of focal lengths for the money (slanted toward the longer focal lengths).
Get it (the twin lens kit) and use it till you discover where it falls short of what you need for your use.
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
Yes thankyou so much for the advice
I do realy appreciate it

Told my BF about this post and the WAR it created..to my horror and amusement and he said ahh thats like asking which car is better....

Ford or Holden..both are crap...made to break down haha..but that is for a different group

Im gonna get the 450D Canon wtih one n and the twin lenses kit with an "s" not the Nikon with a K!

Is in my afordability and scope...KISS theory (keep it simple stupid)
Again Thank you all for your time and input

Cath
bullseyephoto 10 years ago
enjoy your new camera Cath.
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
Nice one I'm sure you'll be happy with your purchase!
Craig & Spencer 10 years ago
Get I Nikon!! I started Nikon then went to Canon. Now Im back with Nikon.

Nikon DONE!!
derrickprophoto 10 years ago
Nice tennis pictures Bullseye, added full credibility to your arguement.
admin
ziz 10 years ago
a nikon is not a lomo!
admin
mugley 10 years ago
And Canon is not the same as Nintendo :)
delicious purpose [deleted] 10 years ago
I think that we should really have a full on Canon vs Nikon war.
Meet up at Fed Square at high-noon with your largest greatest lens and use it as a blunt instrument to hit the opposition with!
To save confusion no white Nikon lenses allowed, so it's just White vs Black.

I'll put my money on the bloke that shows up with the Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

Last man/woman standing gets to pick up all the broken glass and sell it on ebay.
Helmacron 10 years ago
Come on then, I'll fuck you up.
bullseyephoto 10 years ago
here you go derrick. I hope you like it.

www.mykaussie.com/images/Tennis1.jpg
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
Great pic bullseye!!!
although cant see no balls there!
cuddly dinosaurs [deleted] 10 years ago
lol ... you have started something here bifem.
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
LOL yes it seems so
I think this is the most enjoyable discussion thread I've been in!
mikebrown3064 10 years ago
Well I can't argue with his taste in Tennis Players :-/
magnificent card [deleted] 10 years ago
LOL
derrickprophoto 10 years ago
Nothing like a little humour to deflect the focus from the fact someone who lauds the supremacy of one brand over another, uses cheap gear. Nice. As Sam Newman would say.....you idiot.
cuddly dinosaurs [deleted] 10 years ago
Go olympusssss
Helmacron 10 years ago
Hey Derrick, you realize that bullseye uses a Canon 10D along with all the point and shoots, yeah?

Oh, also, Derrick, you know what sucks? When this guy turns up to the party late and tries to buddy up with everyone but no one's biting so he follows the age old advice of making friends, ie. find someone everyone loves to hate and mock them, but does it louder and brasher and slightly less cool than everyone else and you just sit there, watching this guy, and it's like just one huge mental sigh.

Ha ha, I'm just kidding buddy, just kidding.
derrickprophoto 10 years ago
Hey, I did'nt realise that Bullseye uses a Canon 10D with prime tele lenses. I guess then he is talking from experience, so we should after all take on board his expertise and advice.
mundane mandible [deleted] 10 years ago
I used to drive a Holden, but now I drive a Ford...
does that help?
;-)>
Jeans16 10 years ago
Either wait for the 450D to come out and get a 400D, or if you're patient, do what I'm planning and get the 450D when the next one (500D, are Canon gonna keep that pattern?) comes out. Big price drop/saving with that method, although not free of flaws.
mundane mandible [deleted] 10 years ago
Shoot with plastic. It is wonderfully grounding.
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