Roel 9:38pm, 17 May 2007
A lot happened this week. A lot...
...and most of it wasn't very positive.

At one moment I was logged on to the JPG website, deleting the photos I submitted there and seriously thinking about deleting my account and cancelling my subscription. Very seriously. But I didn't. Why? I hesitated...

...because around the same hour, I wasn't ready to delete my Flickr account either after the other photography related web incident featured across the web this week. Even Rebekka isn't leaving Flickr over it. We're in it for the long run.

I expect the 8020 crew to deliver an quality community-based photo magazine and support the great community there, just like I expect the Flickr crew to deliver a great photo sharing site here. Both made mistakes (larger or smaller, but both suck for the people involved), but for now I am giving both companies the benefit of the doubt. But they'll have to earn it.

Hopefully, 8020 will produce an excellent 11th JPG issue. And similarly, I want to see Flickr come up with a good, open procedure for handling unwanted photos and/or discussions.
Old Man Under the Sea [deleted] 9 years ago
Damn you Sir for a good argument!
.Ashkan 9 years ago
Laura Brunow Miner 9 years ago
Thank you! :)

And I personally vow to, as they did in Spinal Tap, crank up to 11 for Issue 11.
catherine buca PRO 9 years ago
I didn't delete. I thought about it. I sometimes find it easy to get swept along with the crowd. And I wasn't at all happy with what was going on. But I'd just taken out a subscription, dammit, and bought a new magazine rack for them all to go in - you don't bail out on that kind of commitment.

e.palecek PRO 9 years ago
Well, Issue 10 is in my hands and it's beautiful
Wespionage PRO 9 years ago
I haven't deleted. Even though the mistake made is significant, I feel that bailing, en masse, on a community project because of one person only leaves the community itself in worse shape.

The magazine itself isn't really the target of my desired response.

I've worked for a firm that participates in shareholder activism campaigns. That is the kind of attitude most of the reactionaries around here could use. They have the power of a community already in their hands -- instead of jumping ship, they could be doing so much more to make a positive impact in the direction and shape of JPG Magazine. They are already being vocal and getting the attention of Paul and the rest of the 8020 crew -- but the only thing they seem to be doing is getting their attention in order to say piss off.

Pulling your support and interaction isn't necessarily as powerful or beneficial as advocating for change while you still have the power to pull your support (financial or otherwise).

We can't undo what's done. We can only hope to positively influence where things go. If everybody who claims to have high moral values is gone, what's left for the JPG Magazine community?
antijenx 9 years ago
As I stated before, I'm not going anywhere :)
deyes 9 years ago
you gals/guys rule.. we'll do you proud. :) thanks for hanging out.
Old Man Under the Sea [deleted] 9 years ago
I joined, then I deleted, then I joined......sigh.....the irritated parent trying to figure out what to do......knock it off kids and get back to doing what you were doing best (the 7 Samurai may disregard this comment).
suZen. 9 years ago
I didn't delete. I'm still so fucking honored to be published in Issue 10 even with the slew of vitriol and cancellations.

I'm sad about everything that's happened...for all parties. I've felt sad with every post I've read about how misunderstandings turn big and differences of opinion become larger than they are. Especially when there's an internet pile-on.

I feel for everyone involved, and I can see how each came to their own side of the story. I know how those things can happen and I've been a party to seeing things in vastly different ways (though I'll admit I didn't have to suffer an internet pile-on in addition to sorting out the personal drama). I also know that when I stepped back from the initial emotional impact - in the name of growth and accountability - I've been able to take responsibility for my part in ending up there. There are things I'd never do the same way - and at the time I thought they were unavoidable. Perhaps at the time they were. If everyone stepped back in these kinds of situations, I think we'd sort more things out and know which things just can't be sorted but come to feel more amicable about them. With insight and a new day (or week, month or year), perspective can change.

I like the idea of a world where sincere apologies can be offered amongst friends and sincere apologies can be accepted. I want success for everyone.

The word "community" means a lot to me. It means there are going to be things we do that upset others and there are things we do to make amends.
woodendesigner 9 years ago
I thought about bailing but it really bugged me that something that I was really getting into would be gone for me. Also, I don't know any of the people involved personally. So I read a lot of the posts and all of the statements from the people involved that I could find. I decided that their disagreement is none of my business but that there are enough members injpg that something needs to be done and said on the jpg site itself. I saw the history "rewrite" the first day it happened and then the small statement about the founders. I'm sure the staff at jpg is very sympathetic and I don't think anyone wants to see jpg fail but the leadership needs some work. So I decided to delete all of my photos for the time being and then list just one for now which I submitted to America. I hesitate to give the link here because I know this is a very "pro" jpg area but here it is I do not mean it to be offensive and I do not think it is. It is just a statement of displeasure of how things are right now. My hope would be that people would support it to send a message directly that there is something wrong and that we want it fixed so everyone can continue to post photos there and eventually.....hopefully get one published.
leafy 9 years ago
... as far as laying out cash money for the magazine i have never made the decision to do so ... it still hasn't earned my respect enough from the get-go ... i'll take a look at another sample copy and see how it measures up ..
deyes 9 years ago
there was something wrong.. and it was "fixed".. we're moving on, we're working, we're talking about JPG today/tomorrow and 5 years from now. I do like the matte cover for that issue though.. sexy. :)
squarerootofnine 9 years ago
vitriol. now there's a 3 dollar word.

not that it needs to be said, but i'm staying. the surprise and elation of coming across an image like suZen's for the first time is reason enough.
[this] [account] [has] [been] [deleted] 9 years ago
I'm still a d*&k, wait I mean member.....I can be ignored on JPG just as well as I can be ignored here.....go me!
Joe_Focus 9 years ago
I'm still around. I understand why people bailed, but I didn't really know the people involved personally (or through flickr), so after thinking about it (for about 10 seconds), it didn't really make sense for me to quit. Waiting to get my paws on issue 10...
DodgeMedlin PRO 9 years ago
Still a member, still not a subscriber. I haven't posted or voted this week, but I still obsessively check how my photos are doing in votes and favorites. I came close to canceling my membership a couple of times, but given what Paul, Laura and some others have said in the Clarifications thread, I'm glad I didn't.
Wespionage PRO 9 years ago
@7simon: Brilliant!
Alt.Frames 9 years ago
...not leavin' Dodge..
Enlightened Fellow PRO 9 years ago
@7simon I don't ignore you. You're an inspiration!
Findo PRO 9 years ago
I'm stickin' around... I don't think it's all as clear cut as many who jumped ship seem to think.. and just jumping ship is not really going to help anyone I don't think..
JRSlaterPhoto [deleted] 9 years ago
I've joined but haven't subscribed yet. I just purchased Issue #9 and have only read a page or two of it. I must say I feel really stupid for not checking into tha mag when I first heard about it. Just think, I could have had an image or story published already. ;o)

Keep up the good work.
1RoyalPain 9 years ago
I'm on the fence, I had just subscribed and have two issues, I hope that Issue 11 and future issues take note as to how "Community" can be easily pushed to an emotional state where drastic choices have to be made.

I will continue on for the time being.
[this] [account] [has] [been] [deleted] 9 years ago
oh crap, you guys are gonna break me
[sends PayPalPayments, refills glass with the cheap stuff]
Old Man Under the Sea [deleted] 9 years ago
Yes!!! The cheap stuff!!!!!!!!...shit I'm out!
I went there for 2 things. To get my pic in a magazine and for the 100 bucks that comes with it. So far, I have completed that task one time. With everybody deleting themselves like this, it's just increasing my chances for another 100 bucks.

With that said, I dont know Powazek, and I dont know the folks at 8020. What happens with them is their business. Me deleting my account wont change anything. Maybe there's more to the story that both sides arent letting us know about. Who cares, its not my business. I went there for the cash and to be printed.

I am not saying either side is wrong for their own opinions. I signed up for the fun and photography. The bandwagon will crash, and everyone will sign back up.
ecparker 9 years ago
I'm staying, because no one has convinced me that either side is right or wrong. Honestly, I don't really care all that much. I have enough drama in my life as it is, and I like to see and submit pretty pictures.
pigeonpoo Posted 9 years ago. Edited by pigeonpoo (member) 9 years ago
Gutless, spineless, yellow-bellied. Those are just some terms I can think of for those who haven't bailed out. A couple of clowns slapped you in the face and you're sticking around. How dumb is that?

By deleting your account, which is not necessarily a permanent decision by the way, you are making a gesture of protest. Just think: it was only after a rising cacophony of criticisms that the hubby and wife team, plus one or two from their cabal, began to speak out. And so now at least the situation seems clearer, though still far from complete resolution (but that's a matter, both personal and business, for the main protagonists).

In a community like this one wherein the main stakeholders, we the people, are distant from the machinery, the back room operations of JPG or Flickr (or whatever), our only and effective means of protest is to at least temporarily abandon the community or even leave altogether. We're saying, "we're not happy you bastards, fix the situation, or else!"

So I beseech you: delete your accounts. Protest!
Resorting to name calling are we?
antijenx Posted 9 years ago. Edited by antijenx (member) 9 years ago
@pigeonpoo ...

firstly, insulting us is really not going a long way to convince us to jump ship.

secondly, just because those of you who deleted are unhappy, doesn't mean that we all are. you don't speak for everyone. a community is made up of individuals, hopefully capable of individual thought process. we've made our decision to stay for our own perfectly valid reasons.

just because we disagree with you, does not automatically mean we're wrong, let alone gutless, spineless or yellow bellied. the fact that we haven't "bailed out" in the face of the near constant onslaught of angry and downright rude, at times, posts these last few days says to me that we are just the opposite of spineless. we're not interested in the bandwagon, thank you very much.
Old Man Under the Sea [deleted] 9 years ago
Perhaps when the husband and wife sell the shares they still retain....? Personally, I would rather both sides think..."whooops we ran in the wrong directions"...lets get back to the origin.
Thank you, Antijenx. You worded it much better than I could.
I deleted my account.

I kept my subscription.
1RoyalPain 9 years ago
If we all(every subscriber) pulled the plug on JPG and cancelled our subscripts what would that get us the community? Is the statement meant to say if you piss us off we will run you out of business? I dont think that is the goal, many people are thrilled to have been published in the magazine what ever issue it was. I think a statement is being made about the feelings everyone has and they are being heard by everyone at JPG and probably their advertisers.

I feel for Derek and Heather, it was an unfortunate thing that happened. I do however stand by my previously posted statement, "I am on the fence". I did not like the fact that JPG made some decisions that did not seem right at the time, and some additional explanations are in order. I think they got the point, and I hope they make amends and prove to us that they are genuine and community supportive. Right now its just a bunch of talk, out of respect for any other human being on the planet I will give them the benefit of the doubt and reserve my right to cancel any time I choose.

I would like to see an Editors Letter put into issue 11 that explaining in detail the direction of JPG I think they owe us something in print.
pigeonpoo 9 years ago

I appreciate your calm rationality. And what you've suggested (i.e. something in print) is a damn good one.

By protesting in the manner I suggested, I certainly don't mean a total destruction of JPG; certainly, this is not even the main point. However, it is the most emphatic action we have at our disposal to convey our unhappiness.

If these clowns are truly top shelf, then they will find a way for detente with both their constituents and their former business partners. Your suggestion is one way, perhaps some message on the JPG site, whatever. It's gotta be powerful, persuasive - not spin.

How about this then: what can these 8020 guys do to fix the situation and convince the desserters to reconnect? Ideas?
woodendesigner 9 years ago
1RoyalPain: Well said. Putting them out of business is not the point. We all loose something if they get put out of business. I would like to see some kind of statement on the website itself rather then wait til issue #11. I think that would sooth a lot of bad feelings.
DodgeMedlin PRO 9 years ago
I too think a statement on the JPG site, not just on the 8020 site and here at flickr, is called for. A lot of JPG members probably still don't know what's going on. I found out about it a couple of days ago only through Kottke, or I might still be in the dark as well.

And I prefer "no-account coward," pigeonpoo. ;) Seriously, your last question - how can Paul & Co. get back the deserters? - is a great one. Not, of course, that I have an answer for it.
catscape 9 years ago
I can't speak for all who left, but I don't think it was ever about putting JPG out of business, nor was it about which team was the good guys. It was simply a method of protest, and it seems to have finally gotten Paul's attention.

Changes have been made, more changes are forthcoming. Some people left, some stayed. It is entirely possible that both positions were carefully thought out. Can we move on now?
base10 PRO 9 years ago
I have taken exactly no action with my JPG account.

I'm hoping there's a slim shot at recovery. (see also: optimist (n))

I want to hear 8020 and Paul out. But really, I can do without the spin, and while yes, everything's probably spin, it seems less transparent from 8020 right now.

Seriously, we could use and stand the honesty: If Derek and Heather were axed from the about page out of spite, say so. The other explanation(s) thus far, have not passed the smell test.

Also, the web doesn't make it particularly difficult to say "We're improving our access to Issues 1-6" without breaking urls/expectations.

So what _am_ I saying?

I'm saying I'd willing to help move on with contributions _if_ we see some olive branches, apologies, explanations. If 8020 takes JPG's continuation seriously (and I don't think they wouldn't), please understand we still need something, and not a small something, from you to prove to us you're in it not merely as a business. It's not just a magazine at BigBoxBooks for us. I know that's insulting when folks have spent years getting this going, but there it is. We weren't in the room then, but we're here now and we're tired, punchy, angry, sad and disappointed.

It doesn't mean 8020 can't tell it's story, introduce us to who everyone there is, but tell the complete story about JPG, not just what's favorable when you're making PowerPoint presentations. Respect what came before you, don't just point to it neutrally. Embrace it. It's your past, as it is ours.

Here's a starting point question: Can the difference of opinion of opinion between Derek and Paul be resolved? If so, how? If not, why not?

This is truly one of the saddest things I've seen online, but I would like to have some other resolution than scorched earth.
benjaminreece 9 years ago
hmmmm, after reading this thread, I totally agree with pain & base10-

Honesty and transparency- thats all the community and blogesphere wants.
I deleted my account and then re-created it. I had a bunch of votes now they are all gone :(.
benjaminreece 9 years ago
Haha- I signed up and subscribed :) Laura, I still think you are wrong ;)
kittyholmes 9 years ago
hey all-
so paul posted a big long post last night, which i think explained a lot of things, and addressed, (from what i can tell from my near obsessive reading of everything related to this! seriously, the last 2 days have been super unproductive.) the main concerns the community had in the last couple of days.

but i'm stil hearing some things over here that i think he covered. specifically from base10's post above, and a few like it. maybe you didn't see the post? if you didn't, please go check it out, and then let me know what you think.

and for all of you who have decided to stay, thank you. it means a lot to everyone at 8020, and to me.

myrte voogt 9 years ago
I havn't deleted and will not delete, I don't give a ratsass about editors coming or going or what we're told or not, as long as the magazine is good, if the quality of the mag sufferd, I'd be out.
Sry..really don't agree with all the screaming and ranting that's been going on...get over yourselves.

My 2c, plz don't bite my head off.
paolofusco 9 years ago
I'm optimistic, sometimes..

I'll stay. Let's hope JPGmag quality stays as well..
base10 PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by base10 (member) 9 years ago
@kittyholmes: I read it and need to reread it. I don't think it addressed all of my concerns, some better articulated by others.

Mainly though, one of the things I think plays into this is that we're still going through part of the process I suspect some of the primary players already went through back in April. Grief, Anger, Acceptance, etc, etc.

Mainly, I'm not ready for it to be what it is now vs. what we saw that it was. That's on me.

But I think part of these community emotions have to play themselves out before anything constructive really happens. I'm hoping part of that constructiveness is some reconciliation and understanding amongst the 8020 investors.

[edit: minor clarification]
S.D. PRO 9 years ago
Nope, still deleted. (And No, I don't think anyone is Gutless, spineless, yellow-bellied or other colorful words).

Regardless of whatever happened that led to Derek's departure, JPG was originally Derek's and Heather's creation. I maybe naive, but I'm still really hoping for a resolution that include Paul and Derek working it out.

I'm not marginalizing the Staff. As a programmer, I can say the site is a great work, as an amateur photographer, I certainly appreciate the behind the scenes work of all the staff.

I just think they (Paul and Derek both) need to work it out where Derek can have a role in JPG Magazine especially since Derek owns a part of it.
Kristal 9 years ago
I deleted my account and don't regret that decision. However, I signed up again this morning. Why? Mainly because I am a contributor in this issue of the magazine and my jpg profile page is printed in the back. I didn't want to risk someone else coming along with my username and getting things mixed up.

As far as the direction of the magazine, I think it was [and still is] a wonderful concept. My faith has been shaken and I'll wait for Issue 11 to hit the stands to decide whether to contribute again.
1RoyalPain 9 years ago
@kittyholmes: I agree with base10. I read Paul's post and it did not address all the issues but brought up a few more. I really think it needs to just settle for a bit and we will wait and see. To date I have not seen anything from Paul that is making me feel any better. His posts to date have been confused ramblings where he contradicts himself, and I really think he needs time to think through his thoughts and write his response to the community after it has gone through many edits and proof reading.
Spiderpops 9 years ago
well, i've read and i've read and i've read and i'm still here :)
Laura Brunow Miner 9 years ago
base10 said: "Mainly though, one of the things I think plays into this is that we're still going through part of the process I suspect some of the primary players already went through back in April. Grief, Anger, Acceptance, etc, etc. "

This is an incredibly insightful comment. Dead on.
fetopher PRO 9 years ago
Not bailing.
kittyholmes 9 years ago
base10, as laura says above, i do think that everybody involved has kind of moved through the stages, and i hadn't really thought of it that way. thank you.

i just know the next issue will kick some serious ass, partly because the themes are really strong, but also because this experience has really brought the team together. all they want right now is to prove to everybody that they can do this, and do this well. i know they will make us all proud.

as for paul's post, i know he would have like to have had more time to write it, and for more people to read it beforehand, (and a couple people did,) but it was clear to him, (and to me,) that the community needed a response, and they needed it now. right now.

and once again, i want to thank everybody who has decided to stay. you rock.

viscerality 9 years ago
I just subscribed JPG for a year.
deyes 9 years ago
viscerality, you rock :) ..
sparkrobot PRO 9 years ago
Man. So much drah-mah. I still believe in the project, so until or unless it starts to suck, I'm going to stick around. Hopefully it won't turn out to be Van Hagar.
squarerootofnine Posted 9 years ago. Edited by squarerootofnine (moderator) 9 years ago
but, are you ready to rock?
*steve_gobeil* PRO 9 years ago
Much the same reasoning was used by those of us who didn't leave the USA after Bush was elected and you see where that got us.
*steve_gobeil* PRO 9 years ago
The above comment was a joke...just a joke...honest..but you did leave youeselves wide open.
deyes Posted 9 years ago. Edited by deyes (admin) 9 years ago
nm ..

van hagar.. does he make pants?
sparkrobot PRO 9 years ago
he makes pants look worse.
kittyholmes 9 years ago
i thought about leaving the country for canada, (in 2004, and since.) but they like you to have a college degree, and i was still in school, and it's just an a.a. in fashion design, so it's not like i'll be adding much of value to the country. and paul didn't go to college, he went to work on this new thing called the internet after high school, so he wasn't any help there either.

plus, even though i live in california, and my vote doesn't really count for much, i still want to cast it, you know? maybe a move to oregon? or ohio?

man, off topic day. first monkeys in the other thread and now this.

pigeonpoo 9 years ago
EXCUSE ME! You can come to Australia. Nice country. Only problem I guess is that you're American. We much prefer Canadians actually.
antijenx 9 years ago
You gotta have a little fun sometimes, right? What's more fun than monkeys? Especially after the last few days around here ;)

I've been to Australia. Beautiful country. And everyone was very nice to me even though I'm not Canadian.
[this] [account] [has] [been] [deleted] 9 years ago
ya know, the next time there's gonna be some outlandish drahmah, could we please schedule it for the weekend.......I mean it would fit into my life so much better......I could be obnoxious, boorish and otherwise foolish at a far greater rate than I can during the week....just a thought for you community managers out there.......please hold your inflammatory posts til midday Friday, let the whole shit hit the fan and by Monday everyone will be worn out and put up wet.......course for those wasting company time during the week this is a no-win......but we all have to compromise!
lilith penguin 9 years ago
I didn't leave, I wanted to see how things panned out. I often regret the decisions I make in a moment of major emotion, so I've learned to think and wait. If, after a few days, I have lost nothing if I change my mind.
catscape 9 years ago
If Paul gets elected in '08, I'm moving to Oz.

And when I say Paul, I mean Hillary.

squarerootofnine 9 years ago
i wish i was Canadian. but not because of their socialist politics. i just LOVE hockey.
rycat 9 years ago
With Heather's affiliation to Flickr, I wonder if they will stay on as advertisers in JPG?
mrettig 9 years ago
[blush]... I deleted my account, but will almost certainly re-instate. There was a sort of rush of mob mentality there for a day or so, wasn't there? Reminder to self: it's just about impossible to know what really happened in cases like this, and something approximating the real story usually takes a few days to emerge. I'll try to remember that.
ROTFL Mao 9 years ago
no. i deleted my account and will not re-instate.
Nik Romero 9 years ago
Kept mine, I just figured big business is always going to have the upper hand and do what they like. I got my subscription to view all of the great work from people just like me, they just love taking pictures, it's our passion. So all in all I just said.....FUNK IT!!! Lets see some more great shots and use of imagination!
The Fiery X-Scotsman 9 years ago
I'm a wee bit P'd off with what happened to JPG Magazine especially as I had just taken out a subscription (all the way to the Philippines). I've e-mailed them about cancelling my subscription and I've deleted all my images bar one. When I get the subscription issue sorted out I'll be deleting my account.
deyes 9 years ago
I, we all do I'm sure, hope you'll reconsider in the future.

The Fiery X-Scotsman 9 years ago
Well......... I've changed my mind!
I'm keeping the subscription, will wait and see waht happens.
I called myself the fiery scotsman for a reason! 8-)
Just got the new issue. Love it. Removed my account but will keep the subscription. Sign up again? Maybe....
deyes 9 years ago a fiery irishman, I can't blame you. :)

matt, i'll take a "maybe" :) .. thanks for the consideration.
squarerootofnine 9 years ago
matt - i hope that maybe turns into a yes. you have some real magic in your stream. jpg could use a few more photographers like you.
pigeonpoo 9 years ago
You know, you blokes, these patronising rubbish from you isn't helping. Best if you say nothing at all and simply persuade people with your actions.

I mean, FMD, reading your obviously forced effort makes my blood boil. Let's face it, if it wasn't for the crap you got yourselves into, you wouldn't even bother!

- PP
deyes Posted 9 years ago. Edited by deyes (admin) 9 years ago
a) we've been pursuading with our actions since issue 7
b) I'm at home (aka: off-the-clock) .. it's a voluntary effort.
c) I've been browsing this group for months.. the "crap" gave me an excuse to interact. not being remotely good at photography, it's not often conversation leaves me an opening where I'm qualified to speak.
pigeonpoo 9 years ago
"c) I've been browsing this group for months.. the "crap" gave me an excuse to interact. not being remotely good at photography, it's not often conversation leaves me an opening where I'm qualified to speak."

I'm sure we all find it comforting that the "crap" was reason enough
for you to interact with your community. That's nice to know Mr Hayes.

Let me bid you good night my friend, from this cool but sunny Sydney afternoon.

- PP
squarerootofnine 9 years ago
...and on the off chance part of the venom is directed at me, I have nothing to do with JPG beyond being a regular member.
Eggz [deleted] 9 years ago
Without reading this long thread my quick answer to the question is no.
Jeff* PRO 9 years ago
I only signed up with an account last month. I haven't subscribed yet as I wanted to see another edition beyond #9, which was the only one I have read. My status is the same. I may subscribe if I feel the consistency of the direction and quality will be there. Time will tell...
mpaulda™ 9 years ago
nothing has changed here. some seem to get worked up over a whole lot of nothing. business is business. get over it.
Rikvk 9 years ago
I had just subscribed to the magazine in March, and I am very enthusiastic about it. However I have deleted my account, after some thinking and consideration, with mixed feelings I must say.

I feel there is a lot to say both pro and con, and I can agree on both to be honest. Maybe if I had read a little more here it would have been enough to made me stay a bit longer, but when I deleted I followed my heart.
h2okatcher [deleted] 9 years ago
if Derek & Heather are back with JPG ...
Daniel A. Norman 9 years ago
I'm new to JPG Mag and I just submitted photos for issue 11 MY PHOTOS. I'm sorry that the editors were kicked out, but I'm sure they were financially compensated when they sold their magazine to 8020. When the founder of any small company sells, they run the rick of being pushed out. I'm sure it's only business over at JPG Mag, but a lot of people are taking the recent events personally.

My first issue was # 9 , and it was really good because I love street photography. In fact I found about the Hardcore Street Photography Group, but after I joined and found out how nasty and rude some of the administrators were, I decided to start RAW Street Photography Group". So I guess JPG Mag inspired the group. JPG seems like a good magazine, so I'll stick around as long as the magazine stays good.
FlyButtafly PRO 9 years ago
I'm still not reinstating my account. I don't feel anything has been cleared up or answered to my satisfaction. Sure, the controversy is slowly fading and people's emotions are calming down; it doesn't change the facts though.

I guess it's about time to take my leave of this group as well. Later.
Renee May 9 years ago
I'm staying. Never was a subscriber, nor a very active member for that matter. As with most community-driven sites, I don't have the free time to devote to soliciting votes/friends to stay on top of the popularity contest. But I like the photography, so I drop by occasionally:)

I've been observing the recent drama like a trainwreck. I always find it terribly amusing when users form alliances over crap like this. As if any of you people actually know anything about this story. As if you're entitled to a play-by-play! This is a very personal drama and it seems that some of the actors in it wanted very much for it remain private. Some actors made it public, and by having the first word they get to play the innocent victim role. That's enough to make me suspicious right there.

I thought that the JPG/flickr crowd was more savvy than that. This type of drama plays out all the time. When will we learn?? Both sides can spin a story. Personally, I'm not at all impressed with how Derek has handled this situation. I think he's been rather unprofessional.

I know I'm in the minority (or perhaps the silent majority?). Fine. Go ahead and delete your accounts. Maybe then I'll have a shot at getting published;)
Abhinav Varma 9 years ago
Easy decision - delete. I wonder how else you prefer to be used by those profiteers. [deleted] 9 years ago
I'm in and staying. Nuff said! Can't wait for #11.
JRSlaterPhoto [deleted] 9 years ago
Don't mena to bump an old thread but figured it was better than starting a new thread. I recently subscribed for a two year deal. Looking forward to the next two years of JPG. Now I just got get off my butt and submit something. is me.
basegrinder 8 years ago
well no names...but keep in mind that some of of the people victimized by jpg magazine are here doing their own shady stuff at flickr.
discarted 8 years ago
not at all. there system is flawed by the evidence of the photos that are chosen for each issue.

maybe the editors should start choosing for themselves and stop leaving the editorial decisions up to grandma and the rest of the family members who vote on their grandson's pics
deyes 8 years ago
the editor(s) do choose .. they have too, there's not enough space to publish everyone. though, they choose from the top N% and not the entire submission base.. which is where "grandma" comes in :) I hear what you're saying though, it's a fairly common conversation that we hope to be able to address to everyone's satisfaction in the near (but not today/tomorrow) future.
leesure PRO 8 years ago
I LOVE the community portion of the system. It has nothing to do with grandma. I have no 'friends' at JPG and very few flickr friends who will go see my shots at JPG and yet I've managed to have 5 photos become 'Hot' and 2 be published. Good photos win out in the end. The people get to choose what the editors ppick from...for the most part.

in addition, every issue has examples of photos with very few favs...must me editors picks from the masses.

I think the system works well and the photos in each edition are good choices.
deyes 8 years ago
@leesure Absolutely. The editors do a fantastic job. The community portion is JPG and will always be JPG .. I guess my comment was a little out of context. We're looking into leveling the playing field for new vs. seasoned users.. The editors choosing photos with few faves, as you mentioned, is an example of how they're having to compensate for a "top heavy" calculation .. thanks for your comments :)
bluegreenegrl 7 years ago
drama is the business of derek, no matter what. I am grateful for JPG's new hope.
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