Discussions (547)

Later, JPG.

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Jim O'Connell says:

Just read powazek.com/posts/534 after wondering where Derek and Heather went to.

Sorry, 8020, without the kind of openness and transparency that Heather and Derek brought to, er, founded JPG upon, you are no longer something with which I would like to be associated.

web.archive.org/web/20060410203205/jpgmag.com/about/

Edit:
A lot of stuff has happened. Please read: www.flickr.com/groups/jpgmag/discuss/72157600226907934/
Originally posted at 12:28AM, 15 May 2007 PST (permalink)
Jim O'Connell edited this topic 95 months ago.

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(1 to 100 of 222 replies)
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benroberts says:

that stinks....

i think issue 10 might be my last...
95 months ago (permalink)

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Mister Boboli says:

That sucks hardcore. OP chose an apt discussion topic.

Later, JPG.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Findo says:

What a way to alienate the punters!
95 months ago (permalink)

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Finecrafted by Nori says:

The truth shall set you free, JPG. Either that, or you get cut loose in another way. I, too, think this stinks.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Steve Rhodes says:

Someone put Derek's post on Digg

digg.com/tech_news/The_Real_Story_of_JPG_Magazine
95 months ago (permalink)

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Jim O'Connell says:

When you build your business model on community, you are far more subject to that community's spirit.

When you go against that community, you can expect a spiral towards irrelevance.

By downplaying how Heather and Derek created JPG, by shoving the first six issues into obscurity, you are insulting your community, the ones who worked to create everything you are now.

JPG may survive, but I don't expect it will mean much, just another useless, trendy photo mag.
95 months ago (permalink)

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paolofusco says:

that really sucks! business men tend to be so stupid sometimes...
95 months ago (permalink)

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Centenarydog says:

Sucks All right I signed up 4 or 5 hours ago. quickest membership in History! SEEYA JPG.
95 months ago (permalink)

daltonrooney [deleted] says:

This is just too sad. Count me out...I'm no longer a member.

Instructions for canceling your account: Go to your Edit Preferences page and follow the "Delete Account" instructions.
95 months ago (permalink)

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bump says:

and.... I'm out too
95 months ago (permalink)

documentingSpace [deleted] says:

8020 80% LEAVE 20% STAY if they're lucky, won't be left with much of a mag by the sounds of!! latez
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
documentingSpace edited this topic 95 months ago.

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Wingdingo says:

Yep, it's good bye from me too.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Threepwood says:

All sounds pretty nasty to me after reading Dereks post, would like to hear the balancing POV. Is there any response from 8020?
95 months ago (permalink)

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rutty says:

Ouch! That doesn't sound like a smart move on 8020's part at all.

Guess I won't be subscribing if that's true.
95 months ago (permalink)

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antijenx says:

Well that seems fairly crappy. I'd really be interested in hearing 8020's reasoning behind their actions.
95 months ago (permalink)

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doofusdave says:

As would I.

Laura?
95 months ago (permalink)

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fensterbme says:

@antijenx: I agree... and now they will most likley have to respond. I don't see how this can go well for JPG...

.. I just hope it doesn't go under, hopefully 8020 will realize that if the user community has issues with the magazine the magazine has issues.
95 months ago (permalink)

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jasnom says:

wow....posting this here in a publc forums was just a GREAT IDEA!
I smell attorney fees already.

Great job h&d...Well atleast your friends got something out of it ;]

Baah Bahhhhh
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
jasnom edited this topic 95 months ago.

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Ben Yacobi says:

There's an awful lot of people here ready to take actions based on one side of the story. Would you get your opinions about the world just from one newspaper?

On the face of it, this does stink. But it would be worth hearing the whole arguement.
95 months ago (permalink)

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murburger01 says:

WTF! that Paul is a Cu*t
95 months ago (permalink)

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TimTim74 says:

This sucks big time...... I am off to to delete my account.....
95 months ago (permalink)

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Vidiot says:

yes, it would be nice if theorem would come in and explain the decision. But I must say that I'm rethinking subscribing, as a lot of what drew me to JPG was the friendly, homey, you're-among-a-small-group-of-interesting-people vibe.

(Also, there's a MetaFilter thread.)
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
Vidiot edited this topic 95 months ago.

DBCondit [deleted] says:

I'd like to hear the other side of the story too...but as it stands, I'm pissed. We may have to organize a mass cancellation.
95 months ago (permalink)

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ms.Tea says:

it really kind of dulls the shine that JPG magazine had.
it also really sucks and it makes me really reconsider my subscription too.
95 months ago (permalink)

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humanparallax says:

Wow, I was seriously thinking about a subscription but I can't support something as cold as this.

Way to Titanic a great magazine Paul. I only hope the captain goes down with his ship for a backstabbing of this magnitude.
95 months ago (permalink)

optovox [deleted] says:

v-spec says: Paul is one of the Admins of this group. Maybe he should say something?

I'll save you the wait. Paul removed the archives and the story in which Derek and Heather were involved and rewrote the magazine's history so JPG Magazine will look like Paul's idea when he sells it to Google.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
optovox edited this topic 95 months ago.

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djloche says:

Paul isn't going to respond to anything, because ANYTHING he says is going to be a PR blunder.

Google won't touch JPG.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Jim Lindley says:

I'm out.
95 months ago (permalink)

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antijenx says:

I'd like to hear both sides of the story before I make my decision. I like Derek, he's a nice guy, and while I never talked to Heather, I'm sure she's just as cool. I hope that whatever they do works out well for them. But, I love the idea of JPGMag, and I want to hear what they have to say about this.
95 months ago (permalink)

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e.palecek is a group moderator e.palecek says:

and the sad thing is, by canceling, you end up hurting DP and Heather anyway, since they're still owners...
95 months ago (permalink)

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brnpttmn says:

and the sad thing is, by canceling, you end up hurting DP and Heather anyway, since they're still owners...

Seems to me they're not so worried about their investment, otherwise they would not have been so open about the conduct of the mag. Other than that, I am waiting for an official response from JPG, however, judging from their silence and lack of even recognising the departure I don't think I'll be particularly satisfied with the response if/when it comes.
95 months ago (permalink)

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mrettig says:

Pulled my pics from the site, cancelled my account. Sigh.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Sherriatric says:

Wow, that was a MONUMENTALLY stupid move on Paul's part. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
95 months ago (permalink)

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artelisa says:

no comment ...
95 months ago (permalink)

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.imelda says:

SO sad to see Derek and Heather's child ripped from them. So Sad!

I deleted my account.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
.imelda edited this topic 95 months ago.

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groovylab says:

Having followed Derek and Heather careers since like ever, I find this very sad.

JPG magazine was awesome because of them.

I have deleted my account.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Sherriatric says:

artelisa: I hope you don't mind that I copied your screenshot idea and put one in my stream. The more people who know about this, the better!
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
Sherriatric edited this topic 95 months ago.

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fenriq says:

Goodbye, JPG Mag. I hope you learn your lesson from fleecing the two founding editors, sure, you "came out on top" but at what cost?

I will do as much as I can to spread this news as widely as possible.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Mute* says:

Account deleted.

Whether this guy is an out and out liar or just a disingenuous no-good-nik, a community that rewrites its past and callously deletes any reference to the very people that created it isn't one I want to be a part of.
95 months ago (permalink)

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DerDrache says:

*sigh*

It would only be appropriate to wait for 8020s response before taking a stance on this but this is really sad. I'm sad to see such an awesome convergence of talent and hard work be so tainted.
95 months ago (permalink)

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deborah d. lattimore says:

Account deleted, photos removed, subscription cancelled. I have had one photo and two interviews published in JPG, I adored the magazine and of course I have admired Heather and Derek since I met them in San Francisco when I joined Flickr two years ago.

I have been a member of the original JPG Flickr group since the beginning and am the #2 contributor of photos on this site. I'm removing all of my photos. There's no way I want 8020 Publishing to have access to any of them.

Hey, 8020: ever heard of karma?
95 months ago (permalink)

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beebo wallace says:

Yep ...
This is very very bad karma ...

I hate it. I really loved what they created ... but it is shit now!
95 months ago (permalink)

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j l t says:

My account is deleted now. Was very unhappy that they took down the issue with my photo in it. C'est la vie. They were built by these two kind people and their fans, and now they've basically told us all they don't need Derek, Heather or us. Well, we don't need 8020 either. Goodbye, JPG.
95 months ago (permalink)

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John Goldsmith says:

Bad karma indeed . . . .

Buh-bye.
95 months ago (permalink)

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S.D. says:

Deleted mine too.

For me, Part of the appeal of JPG Mag was that it was started by two people and became a community.
95 months ago (permalink)

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cbfotographie says:

I just canceled my account too. I know D&H are still part-owners, but I can't stand this kind of unethical behavior. I only joined JPG because of D&H's vision and now they've been booted so I'm OUT too.
95 months ago (permalink)

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mclgreenville / memorymotel says:

Does Paul have an email?
Why would someone want to.......
95 months ago (permalink)

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mr walker says:

sad. just sad.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Bryan.Formhals says:

business geniuses. yes, let's alienate our entire audience and just hope we can survive on the brand.
95 months ago (permalink)

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mclgreenville / memorymotel says:

I really want to hear his side of the story.
95 months ago (permalink)

scribeoflight [deleted] says:

Insane to even consider rewriting the history of a brand that was created entirely from the support of an internet community as vocal as Flickr. Business geniuses, indeed.

I've deleted my account in the hope that if enough people have done the same, someone will get a little surprise.
95 months ago (permalink)

scribeoflight [deleted] says:

Here is the key bit, I think, for anyone who hasn't read the piece:

Paul informed me that we were inventing a new story about how JPG came to be that was all about 8020. He told me not to speak of that walk in Buena Vista, my wife, or anything that came before 8020.
95 months ago (permalink)

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dartar says:

Matt, Paul Cloutier is a flickr user and admin on this group, but I guess he'll be a bit stressed to answer private FlickMail at the moment.

BTW I love the unconscious irony of his buddy icon :)
95 months ago (permalink)

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especially_today says:

this is just so sad... who do they think they are fooling?
i think the admins of the flickr group should put dereks post and the original story right on the front page, so that no one forgets!

i just wish i hadn't just paid for a subscription...
95 months ago (permalink)

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mclgreenville / memorymotel says:

Brutal.
.....and I have a subscription to the mag, which I loved.
95 months ago (permalink)

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FlyButtafly says:

Just went and deleted my account. If they don't want to acknowledge our contributions - let alone D&H's!!! - they can just kiss my thistle. I've been a member of this group since Oct. 2005 (after joining earlier that year and quitting for some reason), and this is the most ridiculous thing I think could have happened. Don't they think people will wonder "what about the first 6 issues?" when they go to the Issues page?
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
FlyButtafly edited this topic 95 months ago.

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caf says:

I don't know how appreciative Derek will be of everyone deleting their accounts. If you go back and read his post, he says, "I still own a percentage of the company, so I hope to see JPG continue to grow and prosper."
95 months ago (permalink)

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Planet Vicster says:

Removing references to the FOUNDERS of JPG Magazine and the first six issues is explanation enough of Paul Cloutier's side of the story. Regardless of his relationship with Derek and Heather, it's extremely tacky to re-write (well, erase) history like that.

Pity. I'm outta there.
95 months ago (permalink)

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mclgreenville / memorymotel says:

The response.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Ed Karjala says:

some people could screw up a ball bearing in a bucket of grease. see ya JPG Magazine.
95 months ago (permalink)

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bubs1223 says:

Hasta la vista JPG! I thought I had just discoverd a great magazine... I'm glad I didn't get to subscribe!
Just cancelled my JPG account!
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
bubs1223 edited this topic 95 months ago.

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FlyButtafly says:

He was a big part of getting us to where we are and we are all really proud of the work we did together.

Then why the heck erase his presence and history from the magazine? Whatever dude.
95 months ago (permalink)

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dartar says:

Anyone willing to submit a caustic story to JpgMag and make it their most popular article ever? ;)

I wonder if submitted stories are moderated before going online though, probably they are...
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
dartar edited this topic 95 months ago.

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Nada* says:

Am deleting my account, too.

I thought it was such a cool idea when it took off... and am not even a subscriber (UK was on their "to do" list!)
Btw, the start-up story was the first thing I read online JPG, so they are definitely loosing the plot about how they treat their long term fans.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Bryan.Formhals says:

and how dumb do you have to be to think you can erase history in the internet age? come on. everything is documented these days.
95 months ago (permalink)

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tschopper (Tom Schopper Photography) says:

Not cool....

Account deleted.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Nell M says:

I deleted my account too.

I have followed Derek and Heather's work for a while and they didn't deserve this. Neither did all the people who collaborated in the back issues. Soo rude.
95 months ago (permalink)

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FlyButtafly says:

I also just pulled all my photos out of this group - except for the one that was in the Oops! issue (one that apparently never existed according to the "new" JPG).
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
FlyButtafly edited this topic 95 months ago.

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petebeck says:

photos deleted, account closed. fu8020. that's no way to treat anyone.
95 months ago (permalink)

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abhiiiiiii! says:

im outta there.
95 months ago (permalink)

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S.A. Young says:

*sigh*

derek. heather. i'm sorry this has happened to you two very cool and creative people. i know out your combine crazy minds new projects will flourish and that the online community will be willing participants in it.
95 months ago (permalink)

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John Goldsmith says:

This is gonna hurt in the morning. Oh wait! This is the morning on Pacific time. Dang . . . . this must really hurt.
95 months ago (permalink)

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S.D. says:

Maybe we should tag them with "Later, JPG"?
95 months ago (permalink)

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retrOKC says:

If everyone deletes their accounts, then maybe, just maybe I can get my photo published.

j/k
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
retrOKC edited this topic 95 months ago.

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Mute* says:

I can't see why you would do this, even from a purely business sense how does it work to your advantage to take these Stalinist measures to rewrite a history every body knows?

I would have thought the grass roots origin and community development of the magazine, and indeed 8020 itself, would be an asset.

Either this Paul guy is acting purely out of pomposity or there are some hidden hands at work.
95 months ago (permalink)

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joeypfeifer says:

This should be gone soon enough.


JPG Magazine Back Issues

Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
joeypfeifer edited this topic 95 months ago.

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ecparker says:

I think that, to cap off the fucking absolute retardocity of this call, issue 7, 8, and 9 should now be issues 1, 2, and 3.

WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EASTASIA!

I agree with Mute... there isn't even a purely capitalistic or greedy reason to do this. I mean, I can usually understand why people do shitty things even if I don't agree with it, but this is just pretty much incomprehensible.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
ecparker edited this topic 95 months ago.

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ukraine is sane says:

Wow! have you even considered waiting for the side of the story? And who knows what if the mag ends up being a better piece of work!? You never know maybe you all should wait and see.
95 months ago (permalink)

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jvollmer says:

Somehow it seems unlikely that we will, though I'd love to hear Paul's thinking as to why supressing JPG's founders myth was a smart thing to do. The removing the old issues thing is the most perplexing part... why?
95 months ago (permalink)

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beebo wallace says:

Wow! have you even considered waiting for the side of the story? And who knows what if the mag ends up being a better piece of work!? You never know maybe you all should wait and see.

If you want to support a company that ditches the creative force, community and drive behind the magazine; wipe clean the history of where the magazine, hell the community started, so be it. Personally, I vote with my feet (dollars) in everything I do. I would never support anything or anyone who is not 100% honest with themself or the community that created JPG.
95 months ago (permalink)

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DerDrache says:

Bye JPG
95 months ago (permalink)

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Jasonaut says:

I'm out. There is enough self-serving rewriting of history in the world, and I don't need to contribute to the illusion.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Wespionage says:

The truth is, Derek and Heather did a great job of building up the community and getting people engaged and excited about participating. Even if (and that's looking like a big if) Paul's side of this isn't egregiously sleazy, it doesn't demonstrate the sense of understanding that gave the magazine its momentum.

Aside from the negative reaction many of us are having to this, the upside here is that Derek and Heather hopefully know that they still have a community of people here who would be more than happy to continue to participate with them in these kinds of projects.

I wish them the best in their (hopefully soon) next venture!
95 months ago (permalink)

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helveticaneue says:

I want no part of this magazine anymore. I've deleted my account and I am leaving this group.

Paul, I hope you get this message loud and clear from all that are leaving. How you think this move benefits you is qutie beyond me. You are so quick to screw over the founders, you'll not think twice about doing the same to contributors. In fact, isn't divorcing yourself from the first 6 issues kind of doing just that?
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
helveticaneue edited this topic 95 months ago.

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Sherriatric says:

Wow! have you even considered waiting for the side of the story? And who knows what if the mag ends up being a better piece of work!? You never know maybe you all should wait and see.

Considering that the "other side of the story" is an admin for this group and has yet to say a word regarding the matter, then we can all comfortably assume that the only actual story here is that he's a selfish moron. And that much we already know.

And JPG as a better piece of work? Well, now that a lot of its greatest contributors have pulled out, I doubt that will be the case.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
Sherriatric edited this topic 95 months ago.

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rutty says:

Somebody start a protest group already
95 months ago (permalink)

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Lastexit says:

i'm off to delete my acct...
95 months ago (permalink)

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gstatton says:

removed my account as well....just very sad...
95 months ago (permalink)

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fotoattack says:

buh bye.

Sorry D and H xo).

Some people are born only with a "brain stem".
95 months ago (permalink)

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glpease says:

Ukrane, it doesn't matter if the magazine ends up being as successful as TIME, nor what the "other side" is. Revising history, erasing the magazine's founders and the story of its creation, carrying on as though the past never existed shows a lack of integrity that is shameful in light of the original intent of JPG. Lies are lies. There really can be no "other side" to that story.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Eric Hauser says:

Godamnit. I just subscribed about a week ago. Anyone know if it's possible to cancel a sub?

I'm with jasonaut (and many others) on this ... fuck this rewriting of history ...
95 months ago (permalink)

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rak says:

Add me to the Account Deleted/Subscription Cancelled/fu8020 group.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Bill Vaccaro says:

Just deleted my account as well. I can't be associated with an organization that attempts to rewrite its own history by eliminating any reference to the original founders to gave birth to it. Just smacks too much of Stalinism and, lately, our current administration.

I don't know Derek personally but had the pleasure of spending an afternoon with Heather when she came to Chicago in 2005. I've always found them to be upstanding people who I have admired and respected for a long time.

It's despicable to see this happen. The truth will out. To paraphrase that great philosopher, Stephen Colbert, JPG, you are dead to me...
95 months ago (permalink)

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aqui-ali says:

me too. I'm gone.
95 months ago (permalink)

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dpnash says:

I deleted my account there as well.

What got me interested in JPG mag was my respect and admiration of Derek & Heather's own photography, and they way they built up a community around it. I enjoyed submitting work to them and hoped to be published at some point, as a way of participating in that. Without them, that "soul" of the magazine feels gone to me. Submitting work to them now would feel like I was willingly being used for someone else's gain.
95 months ago (permalink)

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Bryan.Formhals says:

jeez, and i wonder what all of us are going to tell people when they ask about JPG magazine?

not only a brilliant business move but a brilliant marketing move. piss off a whole bunch of people off who are going to have nothing good to say about you.

the absolute stupidity is comical.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
Bryan.Formhals edited this topic 95 months ago.

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notruemeaning says:

Guess I'm really glad I never got around to open an account there. spares me the trouble of deleting it--- which I shurely would.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
notruemeaning edited this topic 95 months ago.

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memos to the future says:

I'm usually not one to jump to sudden reactions after merely hearing one side of a story but there is something so utterly creepy in here that I cannot help but wish to stand back and watch from afar for a while.

thus I deleted my account and will delete my images from this pool.
95 months ago (permalink)

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jon madison says:

i don't care to hear another side of the story.

the fact is--there are no references to issues 1-6, and that's a punk move.

and i'm with bryanF -- surely Paul's either thinking like or taking commands from an exec--as you simply CANT try to just change history on the internet. i'd think he'd know that himself too (which maybe he does--i've done silly things like that for exec-levels when i've even spent time letting them know how things really work :)

problem is--they've made it too easy to leave, particualrly for a forum that's easier to leave than say, flickr, where i've built up a tiny "following" :)

there's also not much on the community front there, so it makes it easier too:

account deleted.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
jon madison edited this topic 95 months ago.

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Steve Rhodes says:

To cancel, just go here

www.jpgmag.com/about/contact.html

Select "My subscription to JPG Magazine"

and fill it in that you are cancelling (perhaps with issue 10 as your last issue) and why (it will be interesting to see if you get a reply beyond bullshit like "Derek has indeed left the company to pursue other projects. "
)

I actually had planned on subscribing (but the subscription system was down for a bit), but now I won't.
Originally posted 95 months ago. (permalink)
Steve Rhodes edited this topic 95 months ago.

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