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Later, JPG.

Jim O'Connell 7:28am, 15 May 2007
Just read powazek.com/posts/534 after wondering where Derek and Heather went to.

Sorry, 8020, without the kind of openness and transparency that Heather and Derek brought to, er, founded JPG upon, you are no longer something with which I would like to be associated.


A lot of stuff has happened. Please read: www.flickr.com/groups/jpgmag/discuss/72157600226907934/
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(1 to 100 of 222 replies)
benroberts PRO 9 years ago
that stinks....

i think issue 10 might be my last...
Mister Boboli PRO 9 years ago
That sucks hardcore. OP chose an apt discussion topic.

Later, JPG.
Findo PRO 9 years ago
What a way to alienate the punters!
Finecrafted by Nori 9 years ago
The truth shall set you free, JPG. Either that, or you get cut loose in another way. I, too, think this stinks.
Steve Rhodes PRO 9 years ago
Someone put Derek's post on Digg

Jim O'Connell 9 years ago
When you build your business model on community, you are far more subject to that community's spirit.

When you go against that community, you can expect a spiral towards irrelevance.

By downplaying how Heather and Derek created JPG, by shoving the first six issues into obscurity, you are insulting your community, the ones who worked to create everything you are now.

JPG may survive, but I don't expect it will mean much, just another useless, trendy photo mag.
paolofusco 9 years ago
that really sucks! business men tend to be so stupid sometimes...
BorderHirst 9 years ago
Sucks All right I signed up 4 or 5 hours ago. quickest membership in History! SEEYA JPG.
daltonrooney [deleted] 9 years ago
This is just too sad. Count me out...I'm no longer a member.

Instructions for canceling your account: Go to your Edit Preferences page and follow the "Delete Account" instructions.
bump PRO 9 years ago
and.... I'm out too
documentingSpace [deleted] Posted 9 years ago. Edited by documentingSpace (member) 9 years ago
8020 80% LEAVE 20% STAY if they're lucky, won't be left with much of a mag by the sounds of!! latez
Wingdingo 9 years ago
Yep, it's good bye from me too.
Threepwood 9 years ago
All sounds pretty nasty to me after reading Dereks post, would like to hear the balancing POV. Is there any response from 8020?
rutty 9 years ago
Ouch! That doesn't sound like a smart move on 8020's part at all.

Guess I won't be subscribing if that's true.
antijenx 9 years ago
Well that seems fairly crappy. I'd really be interested in hearing 8020's reasoning behind their actions.
doofusdave 9 years ago
As would I.

fensterbme 9 years ago
@antijenx: I agree... and now they will most likley have to respond. I don't see how this can go well for JPG...

.. I just hope it doesn't go under, hopefully 8020 will realize that if the user community has issues with the magazine the magazine has issues.
jasnom Posted 9 years ago. Edited by jasnom (member) 9 years ago
wow....posting this here in a publc forums was just a GREAT IDEA!
I smell attorney fees already.

Great job h&d...Well atleast your friends got something out of it ;]

Baah Bahhhhh
Ben Yacobi 9 years ago
There's an awful lot of people here ready to take actions based on one side of the story. Would you get your opinions about the world just from one newspaper?

On the face of it, this does stink. But it would be worth hearing the whole arguement.
murburger01 PRO 9 years ago
WTF! that Paul is a Cu*t
TimTim74 9 years ago
This sucks big time...... I am off to to delete my account.....
Vidiot PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Vidiot (member) 9 years ago
yes, it would be nice if theorem would come in and explain the decision. But I must say that I'm rethinking subscribing, as a lot of what drew me to JPG was the friendly, homey, you're-among-a-small-group-of-interesting-people vibe.

(Also, there's a MetaFilter thread.)
DBCondit [deleted] 9 years ago
I'd like to hear the other side of the story too...but as it stands, I'm pissed. We may have to organize a mass cancellation.
ms.Tea PRO 9 years ago
it really kind of dulls the shine that JPG magazine had.
it also really sucks and it makes me really reconsider my subscription too.
humanparallax 9 years ago
Wow, I was seriously thinking about a subscription but I can't support something as cold as this.

Way to Titanic a great magazine Paul. I only hope the captain goes down with his ship for a backstabbing of this magnitude.
optovox [deleted] Posted 9 years ago. Edited by optovox (member) 9 years ago
v-spec says: Paul is one of the Admins of this group. Maybe he should say something?

I'll save you the wait. Paul removed the archives and the story in which Derek and Heather were involved and rewrote the magazine's history so JPG Magazine will look like Paul's idea when he sells it to Google.
djloche PRO 9 years ago
Paul isn't going to respond to anything, because ANYTHING he says is going to be a PR blunder.

Google won't touch JPG.
Jim Lindley 9 years ago
I'm out.
antijenx 9 years ago
I'd like to hear both sides of the story before I make my decision. I like Derek, he's a nice guy, and while I never talked to Heather, I'm sure she's just as cool. I hope that whatever they do works out well for them. But, I love the idea of JPGMag, and I want to hear what they have to say about this.
e.palecek PRO 9 years ago
and the sad thing is, by canceling, you end up hurting DP and Heather anyway, since they're still owners...
brnpttmn 9 years ago
and the sad thing is, by canceling, you end up hurting DP and Heather anyway, since they're still owners...

Seems to me they're not so worried about their investment, otherwise they would not have been so open about the conduct of the mag. Other than that, I am waiting for an official response from JPG, however, judging from their silence and lack of even recognising the departure I don't think I'll be particularly satisfied with the response if/when it comes.
mrettig 9 years ago
Pulled my pics from the site, cancelled my account. Sigh.
Sherriatric PRO 9 years ago
Wow, that was a MONUMENTALLY stupid move on Paul's part. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
artelisa PRO 9 years ago
no comment ...
.imelda PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by .imelda (member) 9 years ago
SO sad to see Derek and Heather's child ripped from them. So Sad!

I deleted my account.
groovylab PRO 9 years ago
Having followed Derek and Heather careers since like ever, I find this very sad.

JPG magazine was awesome because of them.

I have deleted my account.
Sherriatric PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Sherriatric (member) 9 years ago
artelisa: I hope you don't mind that I copied your screenshot idea and put one in my stream. The more people who know about this, the better!
fenriq 9 years ago
Goodbye, JPG Mag. I hope you learn your lesson from fleecing the two founding editors, sure, you "came out on top" but at what cost?

I will do as much as I can to spread this news as widely as possible.
Mute* PRO 9 years ago
Account deleted.

Whether this guy is an out and out liar or just a disingenuous no-good-nik, a community that rewrites its past and callously deletes any reference to the very people that created it isn't one I want to be a part of.
DerDrache 9 years ago

It would only be appropriate to wait for 8020s response before taking a stance on this but this is really sad. I'm sad to see such an awesome convergence of talent and hard work be so tainted.
Account deleted, photos removed, subscription cancelled. I have had one photo and two interviews published in JPG, I adored the magazine and of course I have admired Heather and Derek since I met them in San Francisco when I joined Flickr two years ago.

I have been a member of the original JPG Flickr group since the beginning and am the #2 contributor of photos on this site. I'm removing all of my photos. There's no way I want 8020 Publishing to have access to any of them.

Hey, 8020: ever heard of karma?
beebo wallace PRO 9 years ago
Yep ...
This is very very bad karma ...

I hate it. I really loved what they created ... but it is shit now!
j l t 9 years ago
My account is deleted now. Was very unhappy that they took down the issue with my photo in it. C'est la vie. They were built by these two kind people and their fans, and now they've basically told us all they don't need Derek, Heather or us. Well, we don't need 8020 either. Goodbye, JPG.
John Goldsmith 9 years ago
Bad karma indeed . . . .

S.D. 9 years ago
Deleted mine too.

For me, Part of the appeal of JPG Mag was that it was started by two people and became a community.
cbfotographie 9 years ago
I just canceled my account too. I know D&H are still part-owners, but I can't stand this kind of unethical behavior. I only joined JPG because of D&H's vision and now they've been booted so I'm OUT too.
Does Paul have an email?
Why would someone want to.......
mr walker 9 years ago
sad. just sad.
Bryan.Formhals 9 years ago
business geniuses. yes, let's alienate our entire audience and just hope we can survive on the brand.
I really want to hear his side of the story.
scribeoflight [deleted] 9 years ago
Insane to even consider rewriting the history of a brand that was created entirely from the support of an internet community as vocal as Flickr. Business geniuses, indeed.

I've deleted my account in the hope that if enough people have done the same, someone will get a little surprise.
scribeoflight [deleted] 9 years ago
Here is the key bit, I think, for anyone who hasn't read the piece:

Paul informed me that we were inventing a new story about how JPG came to be that was all about 8020. He told me not to speak of that walk in Buena Vista, my wife, or anything that came before 8020.
dartar PRO 9 years ago
Matt, Paul Cloutier is a flickr user and admin on this group, but I guess he'll be a bit stressed to answer private FlickMail at the moment.

BTW I love the unconscious irony of his buddy icon :)
especially_today 9 years ago
this is just so sad... who do they think they are fooling?
i think the admins of the flickr group should put dereks post and the original story right on the front page, so that no one forgets!

i just wish i hadn't just paid for a subscription...
.....and I have a subscription to the mag, which I loved.
FlyButtafly PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by FlyButtafly (member) 9 years ago
Just went and deleted my account. If they don't want to acknowledge our contributions - let alone D&H's!!! - they can just kiss my thistle. I've been a member of this group since Oct. 2005 (after joining earlier that year and quitting for some reason), and this is the most ridiculous thing I think could have happened. Don't they think people will wonder "what about the first 6 issues?" when they go to the Issues page?
caf 9 years ago
I don't know how appreciative Derek will be of everyone deleting their accounts. If you go back and read his post, he says, "I still own a percentage of the company, so I hope to see JPG continue to grow and prosper."
Planet Vicster PRO 9 years ago
Removing references to the FOUNDERS of JPG Magazine and the first six issues is explanation enough of Paul Cloutier's side of the story. Regardless of his relationship with Derek and Heather, it's extremely tacky to re-write (well, erase) history like that.

Pity. I'm outta there.
The response.
Ed Karjala PRO 9 years ago
some people could screw up a ball bearing in a bucket of grease. see ya JPG Magazine.
Photos by Julio Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Photos by Julio (member) 9 years ago
Hasta la vista JPG! I thought I had just discoverd a great magazine... I'm glad I didn't get to subscribe!
Just cancelled my JPG account!
FlyButtafly PRO 9 years ago
He was a big part of getting us to where we are and we are all really proud of the work we did together.

Then why the heck erase his presence and history from the magazine? Whatever dude.
dartar PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by dartar (member) 9 years ago
Anyone willing to submit a caustic story to JpgMag and make it their most popular article ever? ;)

I wonder if submitted stories are moderated before going online though, probably they are...
Nada* 9 years ago
Am deleting my account, too.

I thought it was such a cool idea when it took off... and am not even a subscriber (UK was on their "to do" list!)
Btw, the start-up story was the first thing I read online JPG, so they are definitely loosing the plot about how they treat their long term fans.
Bryan.Formhals 9 years ago
and how dumb do you have to be to think you can erase history in the internet age? come on. everything is documented these days.
Not cool....

Account deleted.
Nell M 9 years ago
I deleted my account too.

I have followed Derek and Heather's work for a while and they didn't deserve this. Neither did all the people who collaborated in the back issues. Soo rude.
FlyButtafly PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by FlyButtafly (member) 9 years ago
I also just pulled all my photos out of this group - except for the one that was in the Oops! issue (one that apparently never existed according to the "new" JPG).
petebeck 9 years ago
photos deleted, account closed. fu8020. that's no way to treat anyone.
abhiiiiiii! PRO 9 years ago
im outta there.
S.A. Young 9 years ago

derek. heather. i'm sorry this has happened to you two very cool and creative people. i know out your combine crazy minds new projects will flourish and that the online community will be willing participants in it.
John Goldsmith 9 years ago
This is gonna hurt in the morning. Oh wait! This is the morning on Pacific time. Dang . . . . this must really hurt.
S.D. 9 years ago
Maybe we should tag them with "Later, JPG"?
retrOKC Posted 9 years ago. Edited by retrOKC (member) 9 years ago
If everyone deletes their accounts, then maybe, just maybe I can get my photo published.

Mute* PRO 9 years ago
I can't see why you would do this, even from a purely business sense how does it work to your advantage to take these Stalinist measures to rewrite a history every body knows?

I would have thought the grass roots origin and community development of the magazine, and indeed 8020 itself, would be an asset.

Either this Paul guy is acting purely out of pomposity or there are some hidden hands at work.
joeypfeifer Posted 9 years ago. Edited by joeypfeifer (member) 9 years ago
This should be gone soon enough.

JPG Magazine Back Issues
ecparker Posted 9 years ago. Edited by ecparker (member) 9 years ago
I think that, to cap off the fucking absolute retardocity of this call, issue 7, 8, and 9 should now be issues 1, 2, and 3.


I agree with Mute... there isn't even a purely capitalistic or greedy reason to do this. I mean, I can usually understand why people do shitty things even if I don't agree with it, but this is just pretty much incomprehensible.
ukraine is sane 9 years ago
Wow! have you even considered waiting for the side of the story? And who knows what if the mag ends up being a better piece of work!? You never know maybe you all should wait and see.
jvollmer 9 years ago
Somehow it seems unlikely that we will, though I'd love to hear Paul's thinking as to why supressing JPG's founders myth was a smart thing to do. The removing the old issues thing is the most perplexing part... why?
beebo wallace PRO 9 years ago
Wow! have you even considered waiting for the side of the story? And who knows what if the mag ends up being a better piece of work!? You never know maybe you all should wait and see.

If you want to support a company that ditches the creative force, community and drive behind the magazine; wipe clean the history of where the magazine, hell the community started, so be it. Personally, I vote with my feet (dollars) in everything I do. I would never support anything or anyone who is not 100% honest with themself or the community that created JPG.
DerDrache 9 years ago
Jasonaut PRO 9 years ago
I'm out. There is enough self-serving rewriting of history in the world, and I don't need to contribute to the illusion.
Wespionage PRO 9 years ago
The truth is, Derek and Heather did a great job of building up the community and getting people engaged and excited about participating. Even if (and that's looking like a big if) Paul's side of this isn't egregiously sleazy, it doesn't demonstrate the sense of understanding that gave the magazine its momentum.

Aside from the negative reaction many of us are having to this, the upside here is that Derek and Heather hopefully know that they still have a community of people here who would be more than happy to continue to participate with them in these kinds of projects.

I wish them the best in their (hopefully soon) next venture!
helveticaneue PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by helveticaneue (member) 9 years ago
I want no part of this magazine anymore. I've deleted my account and I am leaving this group.

Paul, I hope you get this message loud and clear from all that are leaving. How you think this move benefits you is qutie beyond me. You are so quick to screw over the founders, you'll not think twice about doing the same to contributors. In fact, isn't divorcing yourself from the first 6 issues kind of doing just that?
Sherriatric PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Sherriatric (member) 9 years ago
Wow! have you even considered waiting for the side of the story? And who knows what if the mag ends up being a better piece of work!? You never know maybe you all should wait and see.

Considering that the "other side of the story" is an admin for this group and has yet to say a word regarding the matter, then we can all comfortably assume that the only actual story here is that he's a selfish moron. And that much we already know.

And JPG as a better piece of work? Well, now that a lot of its greatest contributors have pulled out, I doubt that will be the case.
rutty 9 years ago
Somebody start a protest group already
Lastexit PRO 9 years ago
i'm off to delete my acct...
gstatton 9 years ago
removed my account as well....just very sad...
fotoattack 9 years ago
buh bye.

Sorry D and H xo).

Some people are born only with a "brain stem".
glpease PRO 9 years ago
Ukrane, it doesn't matter if the magazine ends up being as successful as TIME, nor what the "other side" is. Revising history, erasing the magazine's founders and the story of its creation, carrying on as though the past never existed shows a lack of integrity that is shameful in light of the original intent of JPG. Lies are lies. There really can be no "other side" to that story.
Eric Hauser 9 years ago
Godamnit. I just subscribed about a week ago. Anyone know if it's possible to cancel a sub?

I'm with jasonaut (and many others) on this ... fuck this rewriting of history ...
rak 9 years ago
Add me to the Account Deleted/Subscription Cancelled/fu8020 group.
Bill Vaccaro PRO 9 years ago
Just deleted my account as well. I can't be associated with an organization that attempts to rewrite its own history by eliminating any reference to the original founders to gave birth to it. Just smacks too much of Stalinism and, lately, our current administration.

I don't know Derek personally but had the pleasure of spending an afternoon with Heather when she came to Chicago in 2005. I've always found them to be upstanding people who I have admired and respected for a long time.

It's despicable to see this happen. The truth will out. To paraphrase that great philosopher, Stephen Colbert, JPG, you are dead to me...
aqui-ali PRO 9 years ago
me too. I'm gone.
dpnash PRO 9 years ago
I deleted my account there as well.

What got me interested in JPG mag was my respect and admiration of Derek & Heather's own photography, and they way they built up a community around it. I enjoyed submitting work to them and hoped to be published at some point, as a way of participating in that. Without them, that "soul" of the magazine feels gone to me. Submitting work to them now would feel like I was willingly being used for someone else's gain.
Bryan.Formhals Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Bryan.Formhals (member) 9 years ago
jeez, and i wonder what all of us are going to tell people when they ask about JPG magazine?

not only a brilliant business move but a brilliant marketing move. piss off a whole bunch of people off who are going to have nothing good to say about you.

the absolute stupidity is comical.
notruemeaning Posted 9 years ago. Edited by notruemeaning (member) 9 years ago
Guess I'm really glad I never got around to open an account there. spares me the trouble of deleting it--- which I shurely would.
memos to the future PRO 9 years ago
I'm usually not one to jump to sudden reactions after merely hearing one side of a story but there is something so utterly creepy in here that I cannot help but wish to stand back and watch from afar for a while.

thus I deleted my account and will delete my images from this pool.
jon madison PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by jon madison (member) 9 years ago
i don't care to hear another side of the story.

the fact is--there are no references to issues 1-6, and that's a punk move.

and i'm with bryanF -- surely Paul's either thinking like or taking commands from an exec--as you simply CANT try to just change history on the internet. i'd think he'd know that himself too (which maybe he does--i've done silly things like that for exec-levels when i've even spent time letting them know how things really work :)

problem is--they've made it too easy to leave, particualrly for a forum that's easier to leave than say, flickr, where i've built up a tiny "following" :)

there's also not much on the community front there, so it makes it easier too:

account deleted.
Steve Rhodes PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Steve Rhodes (member) 9 years ago
To cancel, just go here


Select "My subscription to JPG Magazine"

and fill it in that you are cancelling (perhaps with issue 10 as your last issue) and why (it will be interesting to see if you get a reply beyond bullshit like "Derek has indeed left the company to pursue other projects. "

I actually had planned on subscribing (but the subscription system was down for a bit), but now I won't.
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