Germán Vogel 3:28pm, 8 November 2007
Iran has been taken out from Hotmail and Yahoo countries list as if it wasnt a country or as if it was an apartheid regime supporting state terrorism like Israel.

Why not boycott both Hotmail and Yahoo for this ridiculous measure of the new US sanctions to Iran? I suggest Gmail and either Gmail's messaging system or Skype.

I think it is a huge insult to any country in the world to be denied the status of a country out of absolutely nothing. Will you let that happen without a cost?

Greetings from Chile,
my heart shaped box 11 years ago
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Such a big insult to a world's nation, and such a warmongering and bloodthirsty policy of these internet companies. I personally am in the process of moving,

MSN ---> Skype
Hotmail ---> Gmail
Flickr ---> Picasa

I hope when people actually starts getting exterminated in Iran, those who are safe in their houses do care.
sar-kelandi 11 years ago
Calm down German!
Even though this is another stupid thing to happen to Iran, but it is not the worst.

I'm sure Iranians are too busy and concerned about providing for their families to care about Yahoo's actions.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Where will you be when they drop the bomb in Iran, Daniel? Calmed and still thinking evilness in Iran comes from its government, and that such problems have no relation with a systematic foreigner boycott of Iranians' self-determination from day one of the 1979 revolution?

I know there are problems in Iran, for God's sake there are problems in every single country of the world, but most Iranians in Iran do know they are not the fault of their government, but the convenient result of a very effective outsider tactique that creates problems to then blame them on their enemies.

Lets be honest: Does a movie like 'Persepolis' wins an Oscar because it is a good movie, for being one that portrays accurately the truth, or because it is serving the purpose of portraying Iran as 'bombable'? Does a movie like 300 becomes so advertised and famous because it is historically accurate, in sintony with the dialogue of cultures needed nowadays, or again because it is serving the purpose of portraying Iran as 'bombable'?

Im really not comfortable, in spite of living 15,000 km away from it, with the 1,100,000 Iraqis exterminated by the US invasion there. Im sorry if I dont want to find myself sitting on the couch when other millions start dying in Iran.
sar-kelandi Posted 11 years ago. Edited by sar-kelandi (member) 11 years ago
Able politicians can find ways to better their countries. The status quo is there, it's a reality. The best way to work with it is to use diplomacy and openness to forge alliances not to create enemies.
When you do things to offend others and become an outcast in the international arena, then that's what you'll get. It is no surprise.

I agree with most of the things you say, but please don't try to paint Iran so innocent and victimized!
would Iraq get attacked if the ruler was more moderate and diplomatic chap, with more of an interest in internal issues than invading neighboring countries? I bet not.

Status quo is very bad, but it doesn't mean we have challenge it until we get nuked! We can work around it a fare much better than being confrontational.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Iraq got attacked because its ruler -a dictator put there by the West- wasnt a nice person? Please, as if it wouldnt have happened anyway.

Can you tell me how Iranian leaders -not put there by anyone but a nation that chose a revolution and elected democratically their president unlike the country you currently live in- are not moderate or diplomatic?

It only takes to get out of the western media to know all Iranian leaders want is dialogue and union among the different cultures of the world. Im even Chilean and I can read that perfectly well. Ahmadinejad threatened to wipe Israel off the map? Not true. Iran is seeking nuclear weapons. Not true. So how are they not moderate?

Is it more moderate for you to sit back and relax while more millions are killed in Iraq? If you dont care about neither Iraqi or Iranian people let me tell you youre a far cold hearted murderer than any of those pulling the triggers.

How has being less confrontational has helped you prevent millions dying in Iraq, millions being displaced in Palestine, and millions about to die in a third world war?

Good luck with that, but again Im sorry if I want to find myself doing something to prevent all such atrocities when another war starts instad of being less confrontational.
sar-kelandi 11 years ago
If you they block Flickr and a whole bunch of other websites and if most people have fear of making a comment here, I think these are evidences that speak for themselves.

If a crocodile eats a lion, that doesn't make the lion any less of a dangerous predator.

Enough said.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Theres not a single nation in the world that doesnt censor people. But there are two ways of doing it:

1) You let people know what is allowed and what is not, and people is free to get their info if they really want it (arent there Iranians in Flickr after all?).

2) You make people BELIEVE theyre free but block reality systematically and spy on them (arent your American communications all tapped by the CIA as we speak?).

Which one can be bypassed and which one cant be bypassed?

Did you know Sarkozy was a spy for the Mossad since 1983?
Did you know Ahmadinejad didnt threaten to wipe Israel off the map?
Did you know 1 of every 25 Iraqis have been exterminated?
Did you know the US and Israel finance the PKK terrorism?
Did you know a University of Florida student got tasered and arrested by the police for saying the last US elections were fraudulent?
Did you know Al-Qaeda's official speaker is a Jewish-American linked to the Mossad?


If you think youre free for living in a country that applies the 2) way of censoring people, youre simply more naive than those who know what is and what isnt morally encouraged. You can always bypass filtered websites, you can always get your truth if you look for it, UNLESS you think you already have access to it and are ignorant about your own condition.

Even I have been called an agent of the Islamic Revolution. Can you believe that? A 22 year old physics student from Santiago de Chile studying at Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile, son of Emilio Vogel and Ximena Ruiz, a lovely Catholic family.

Believe what you want, and fear the ghosts you decide to fear, but theres just one word for you:

sar-kelandi 11 years ago
I'm not inclined to prove my point at my own cost!
We just have to agree on somethings,
and agree to disagree on others.

BTW, you seem to misunderstand me, I'm not defending anyone here, all governments are "Full of Shit!"
sar-kelandi 11 years ago
Oh, and since you believe in your theories so much and you justify what IR is up to, then I challenge you to get 10 more members here to participate here!?

Pardon me, but I feel you think you are a star from a Hollywood movie.
The kind of movie where the white star actor is going to some "uncivilized country" and as the "American hero" he save those people from all evil thing that they are unable to confront on their own.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
I challenge you to get 10 more members here to write me an anonymous e-mail telling me "I am also frightened to death of the Islamic Republic agents in Flick, as I have also taken my reality from Voice of America and rumours spreaded in Iran by the 75 US billion dollars destined just in 2007 by the American Senate to scare me of my own government" at

Whats your point?

About your movie: I think youre watching too much TV there in San Francisco. You should get rid of your TV as I did because your reality might be getting too perturbed with it. According to you, youre the biggest hero defying the evil agents infiltrated everywhere.

Me, I still think its slightly more corageous of me to have the desire of dedicating my life to the development of the Iranian nation under leaders that are independent, than you laying back on the West coast throwing nothing but fear against a government that is to be bombed for people like you who wont let go of their childish ideas of making their appreciations prevail.

I mean please.

I share here a message about companies insulting the honour of the Iranian nation and all you can come up with is one more negative remark about the Iranian governent?

They are poor? Funny because people below the poverty line in Iran is a 14% even according to the Western media, which is less than in the state you currently live in and in the UK.


The first comment you ever left me was "Dangerous move, you couldave got tortured and eaten by the Islamic Republic agents for having hang out with a Muslim girl", and did I ever see an Islamic Republic agent?

No, yet I keep getting your messages here as if you were speaking for thousands of oppressed Iranians who fear leaving a message, and you keep sending messages about how evil everything is there, frightening people yourself, while you have no problems to live in a country that murders innocents by the millions and is a true dictatorship where a real spionage system called Echelon is infiltrated everywhere indeed.

Hotmail and Yahoo dishonoured Iran, can you say anything about it that doesnt have to do with how evil Iran is and how afraid everyone should be of its agents?
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Also unlike you I dont regard Iran an uncivilized country. Is there anything from Iran left in your blood?

Iran is an example of civilization and any sincere traveler there will say the same thing. Evolution has indeed taken place in Iran unlike in the rest of the world happy with images becoming their version of reality.

I am looking foward to keep learning from iran, not to impose anything on them unlike yourself, spreading your own paranoid ideas of fear just like once someone taught Sunni Muslims that Shia Muslims were evil, and now theyre all divided and living in fear with each other.

Sorry if Im for uniting people and against your rumours of fears that you have decided to turn into your reality and spread it to others as you even tried to do with myself.
Fatemeh A 11 years ago
I admire your attitude German.
I understand you sar-kelandi.
Reality is our perception.
Truth shows its face to some.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Many thanks Fatemeh,

I apologize for getting overly passionate on these discussions, but its a bit of frustration out from good intentions. Im just following my sincere stand on the situation. Some peaceful neutrality is always appreciated!

Regards from Chile,
Sina T 11 years ago
As Fatemeh said, Vogel, your stance is something to be admired. Iranian system has its flaws, huge flaws, but this does not legitimize blinding ourselves. Also, I didn't know Iran was put off the lists in these sites. Very low of them to say the least.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Dear Sina,

Very true. There are problems in Iran as I said, but just like there are big issues in every single country of the world. Me, I am eager to help them get those problems solved in a proper environment, not one of constant pressures, as I found something so beautiful and untouched in Iran that it would break my heart to see it surrendering to new foreigner controlled forces. There is so much wisdom in Iran! We have to share that with the world and not degrade it, because it is part of the evolution of human kind.
famous rabbit [deleted] 11 years ago
Has anyone deleted anything in this discussion? I was following this discussion and last night I saw two more replies but seems now they are deleted or something. Does anybody know what happened?
aazaad 11 years ago
Dear Germán,

Thank you for expanding your thoughts. There is not a thing you have said that I do not respect. This is what the world needs to hear. I really appreciate your sense of responsibility. Our world needs more people like you.

Kind Regards from Tehran
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Dear aazaad,

Many thanks for your kind words! It is not my intention everyone to think the way I do, but to know there is sintony in the way we gauge reality, and that most people actually have good intentions makes my heart happier. Only if people care about what is going on will real peace be achieved. Thats why I was expecting some reaction from Iranians who Hotmail and Yahoo insults now.

But are you kidding me about replies getting deleted here? I get a challenge from sar-kelandi to get 10 more people to comment here, yet replies are getting deleted? Thats sort of low.

By the way the score is,

Iranians not afraid of commenting here (not deleted and not counting the parallel discussion in Persian language, and not even asked by me to comment): 4

Frightened Iranians sending me anonymous emails: 0

Please feel free to email me anonymously to if youre afraid of leaving a comment here to express your real views on Iran, just so I know if its true that sar-kelandi's clones exist.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Oh my God, it was true! Ive seen it with my own eyes! Your message just got deleted as I wrote this! I saved it anyway, it was

aazaad says:

Dear Vahid,

This is one of those messages you're talking about. One of the moderators deleted it more than ten times in four hours late last night.

Posted 40 minutes ago. ( permalink )
protective tent [deleted] 11 years ago
bye bye flickr
famous rabbit [deleted] 11 years ago
Please stop deleting topics in this discussion. It reminds me of deleting Iran from yahoo and hotmail and sun and.... list of countries. Why are you doing this? Whoever you are, please stop it and let people say their words without problems.
Hamed Saber 11 years ago
If any user is sure that his/her posts are deleted from any discussion in Iranian group while they are not removed by himself/herself, just send me private emails.
If I find enough reason, I will strongly do some proper action!
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
I wrote an email to Skype urging them to help Iranians wanting to switch their messaging systems, and this is the reply I got:

Hello Germán,

Thank you for contacting Skype Support.

Thank you for your suggestions! We will definitely look into it and we do appreciate your feedback.
Iran is indeed a very interesting market,full of talented people and with a very young population rate, most of them eager to open to the world.

Best Regards,

Gustavo - Skype Support
sar-kelandi 11 years ago
I might disagree with you, but have a lot of respect for you and your quest. I just don't want you to think I have any thing personal against you.

And if you leave, give us your new links in Picasa, Skype or wherever you go, I'll miss having long heated debates with you! :-)

At least we are civilized enough not say shut up! to each other like King Juan Carlos did to Hugo Chavez! :D

BTW, I'll respond to those 2-3 outstanding remarks that I haven't answered yet.
sar-kelandi 11 years ago
I haven't read this all yet, but I just read something eluding to me deleting comment from here!?
I feel seriously offended by this comment!
I am a person that lives by highest moral and ethical standards and that is my pride, that's the single most important thing in my life to stay true to my principles.
Do you think if you accept my point of view or not it will be such great disaster for me that I would resort to such cowardly action?
Worst is that you win the argument and I'll think "oh, maybe I'm not in tune with my fellow Iranians, and maybe German has a point."

Just before this comment as I saw so many complaints that comments get deleted, I was seriously was going to ask Hamed to remove my Moderator status so that there's no way that it would be my fault.

I don't do Moderating here and I don't need it and if it makes people think I have extra powers over them then here it goes. I even I wanted to resign from it about 2 month ago when I had some arguments with Kian1....
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
I didnt see anyone talking about you deleting anything, please dont feel offended out of nothing.

The user aazaad and the moderator Vahid talked of someone deleting pages, and I saw it happening with my own eyes, which I found low when there is a challenge on the table, and when the message deleted wasnt even libelous, bad intended or so.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Anyway, while we forget why were all even in this Iranian group:

British Premier Gordon Brown says he would not rule out a nuclear strike against Iran over its nuclear standoff, if diplomacy failed.

Attacking iraq was also not ruled out if diplomacy failed, yet diplomacy was programmed to fail. This is code for nuking Iran Im afraid, and Im sure something big will be plotted to justify this upcoming atrocity.
Shoot to kill! 11 years ago
may be some people deserve somthing! :))
Mohammadali 11 years ago
Could you plz change this topic name of yours here(Iran is not a country) doesn't sound like melody at least to many of us!!!
Thank you.
Germán Vogel 11 years ago
Mmm dear Mohammad,

Thats sort of the idea. Are you comfortable with companies which had the option of still consider Iran a country, but decided not to consider it one?

I am simply announcing it, not even asking you to boycott Hotmail and Yahoo as Im doing, but you could try to not blame it on me, as its not me who is insulting you, but the own lack of response of Iranians who decide not to react out of personal comfort.

If Iran is attacked you would prefer the media to simply not write about it because it bothers you? How afraid I am that it would even break my heart more than the hearts of many Iranians living abroad.
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