.damien 7:53pm, 1 August 2008
I know it's been discussed a thousand times and in a hundred ways, but I've never really seen any real responses to the most pragmatic and obvious compromise between the militant "Flickr is a blog, therefore the most recently-added photos go on top" vs. the equally-militant "My photostream is the most visible part of my photo gallery, so I want complete control of how it appears", which is: allowing the Uploader tool to use a user-specified order when adding multiple photos at the same time.

Most of the people I know respect the fact that the photostream is more a blog than a gallery. But even blogs have, within posts (=uploads), content presented in an order than makes sense to a reader.

In short, Flickr seems to think of things this way:
photostream = blog
photo = blog entry

Whereas most people I know think of it this way:
photostream = blog
group of photos uploaded all at once = blog entry
photo = an individual sentence within a blog entry
(which make the most sense in contextual chronological order)

In Uploader 2.1, we could just upload each batch backwards.. It still works as a "blog" - i.e. photos from the most recent batch are still always at the top of the stream - but a chronological progression of events still is achievable for viewers who don't choose to drill down to "set" pages.

In Uploader 3.0, though, dragging photos into the window seems to auto-reorder them (producing, once again, a "backwards" group for a viewer) - which meant that we all had to downgrade and lose all the fun features :(

Would it be heresy to even offer an OPTION to do what so many people are doing already anyway (and which, despite the strawman argument, does NOT break the paradigm of "photostream as blog" ), which is to provide an option to allow either:
1) "Reverse sort by Date Taken" (so that it can appear sorted BY Date Taken)
2) Upload in the order that photos were dragged into the tool (like v2.1 did)

Or does someone know of a third-party uploader that will achieve this goal? Or is there even something obvious I'm missing about the tool itself that already allows this?

<snark>
P.S. The first person to kindly inform me that "if I just put EVERY SINGLE UPLOAD GROUP I make (no matter how banal or unrelated) into a 'set' (have I heard of them?), and then just PRAY REALLY HARD that everyone in the world simultaneously stops browsing photos in the easiest possible way (scrolling down my front page) and instead decides, as one, to instead drill into all these sets individually to order to see the photos in an order that makes a lick of sense" gets a shiny penny from me via PayPal.
</snark>
zyrcster PRO 9 years ago
When I drag photos into 3.0.5 and 3.1, I can re-order them anyway I want to, and I always get the result posted that I am after when I sort them in the Uploader.
.damien 9 years ago
I may have an older 3.x version from around when it originally came out; I'll download the latest version tonight when I get home and retry.

Is it now WYSIWYG, too? (i.e. If I add photos 1, 2, 3, top to bottom, will it upload 3, then 2, then 1, so that the photostream displays 1, 2, then 3, top to bottom) or is it still the opposite of that? (this would be OK too, if I can manage to order my photos backwards)
zyrcster PRO 9 years ago
When I upload, whatever is the first photo, top left, of the Uploader becomes the first photo seen at the top of my stream. So, yes.
.damien Posted 9 years ago. Edited by .damien (member) 9 years ago
You're absolutely right that the new Uploader is now WYSIWYG (a nice touch). And you can shift photos around once you're in the tool.

That said, neither of these things actually affect what I was talking about, and everything in my original post still applies.

[Can anyone else who claims this problem is solved explain to me, step-by-step, how they might achieve this outcome (an upload-group sorted chronologically) in v3.x?]

Given what I've seen, this is what my workflow would be for both Uploaders:

In 2.1:
1) Upload the photos one-by-one in reverse order
2) Hit "upload"

In 3.x,:
1) Drag in a group of photos (either en masse, or one at a time)
2) Wait for them all to "process".
3) Manually resort each image within the thumbnail group (without any names or dates for a frame of reference within an ever-shifting sea of often-nearly-identical thumbnails.)
4) Hit "upload"

There IS a "sorting" option in v3.x, but the only thing it does it revert the photos back to the original order they started out in (i.e. the opposite order in order to get the results I want)

I know what I'm asking for may SOUND difficult, ridiculous, or paradigm-busting, but at its root, all I want is one of two things:
1) It NOT to automatically reorder my photos as I add them. If people WANT their manually-chosen order to be overridden by a "newest taken date" sorting, they can just click the already-existing link that does that very thing.
2) To be offered at least ONE of the same sorting options as we get on Sets already today - "Arrange by date taken (oldest first)".

Would you? Pretty please?
MOD
clickykbd PRO 9 years ago
I do think the idea of viewing a stream by "date posted" in some kind of thumbnail format would be neat, and akin to this idea of "photos uploaded at once = blog entry".

Just adding a link to the "archive view" for that day goes a long way towards encouraging people to consume your stream that way...
example:
view this day's photos

Lately though the do-it-yourself seems to dominate flickr...

If you are really this dedicated to a manual ordering idea, there is always the option to reserve posted "dates/times" to represent the top XX photos in your photo stream, your "view me first" cue... hardly anyone browses much past page 2 or 3 anymore, and if they do, that is not the type of viewer you are targeting anyway. It probably wouldn't be too hard to write an API application to maintain that (by shifting the dates forward with time and allowing you to re-order within that group). Perhaps it's hacking the system, but if it does what you want hey, go for it.

I'm a brand new moderator (thanks Wobble for the invitation), so someone let me know if hinting at API solutions is way off topic for this group.

Re: the "sets" commonly suggested approach...

In theory this is a sound idea. Flickr would just have to give us a "sets only" photo-stream home template option. I'd have no arguments against that. The "blog/stream" context would be lost but I too think flickr has grown a bit beyond that. It would also have to hide the "next/previous" options though... and those may be too integral in flickr navigation concepts to just do away with willy nilly.
jennie333 9 years ago
this is a great, well thought-out way of describing this problem. I just spent way too much time reading the old posts and there was no good answer, other than cumbersome DIY solutions that really won't work for large batches of pics.

I totally agree; respect the blog format, but consider the BATCH of pics as the post, with each photos as a sentence in the post--best understood in the order the author intends. perfect explanation. Not everyone has to deal with theirs this way, of course, but we should have the option. it is our blog, after all...

I just started using flickr again, and the reverse order thing is very annoying. i don't want to make a set for every miscellaneous series of pics i upload. And, people are going to look at them as a stream anyway.

No one can seriously think that dragging each individual photo over to the uploader (for 2) or rearranging them by hand (for 3) is a realistic solution, if you have a large batch. Especially with no file name or time stamp to help!

YES! The uploader really really needs the same "arrange by" options as the organizer. The most basic would be just adding "reverse current order" Which would, at least, sort by oldest first.

But having the options "date taken (newest first)" and "date taken (oldest first)" would be preferable. And adding the alphabetical option would probably be nice for people who rename their files.

At least let us reverse the order!!! anyone know of a current third party solution? h4ppierphotos can let you fix it afterwards, but any uploaders that let you sort?
madgerly 9 years ago
Yep, there's no reason that there can't be a "reverse current order" option in the new uploadr at the VERY least. Version 3 is hugely disappointing. I'll be throwing it away and reinstalling version 2 after I'm done posting. Bleah!
.damien Posted 9 years ago. Edited by .damien (member) 9 years ago
@clickykbd
I hadn't noticed your post responding to this earlier...

Hope I'm not being too critical here because I understand the viewpoint of people who want absolute manual control over all the photos in their stream, but this is where I totally agree with the staff - a Flickr photostream is and should be like a blog, and while it would be nice for them to provide different types of galleries for folks, including infinitely customizable ones, there are plenty of other photo-gallery systems that do.

The reason I felt I needed to speak up here is that I just linked a new (3.2) thread to this post and didn't want the point I'm trying to make to be conflated with one of "infinite customizability". (this is essentially the "strawman" argument that prevents any kind of useful compromises from being achieved) . I am in no way arguing that we should be able to reverse-order our entire phototream or any other equally "customizable for the author; difficult for the viewer to see new content" proposal that people often recommend.

I just want my individual upload groups (my definition of "blog entries") to be able to make sense.
Brandon Milner Photography Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Brandon Milner Photography (member) 9 years ago
I totally agree with Damien here. He went into a LOT of detail, but the gist of it is... sometimes you want your pics to appear in sequential order, not reverse order. This is handy for when your pics tell a sequential story (baby holds toy, baby drops toy, baby cries).

Currently the ONLY way to make this happen is to manually drag the photos around in the uploader. This is hugely time consuming and as of uploader 3.1 doesn't even work reliably (3.2 purports to fix this).

I firmly second Damien's request for two things:
1. Make it clearer what order your pics will actually appear in your stream. i.e. is the first item in the top left of the uploader window actually the last pic to get uploaded... hence it appears at top of stream?

2. Add the ability for 3 more sort orders in the uploader: a) Reverse order by date taken and b) Sort by name (date taken field isn't always reliable especially if edited in Photoshop etc.) and c) Reverse Sort by name.

Once you do these things, you;ll get me to use the 3.x uploaders. Currently I only run them for video. I use the 2.x uploaders for photos because I can manually drag & drop pics onto them in the order I want them to appear.
icedbuddha 7 years ago
www.fireuploader.com/
1)
Save (export) your photo batch with numbering (starting at 100 can help the single and double digit photos from getting scrambled)
2)
Login with fireuploader
3)
Sort your right hand folder (local computer) so that the last photo (ie highest number probably) comes first in the list.
4)
Select all and upload

I just did this for a wedding set of over 300 photos that I wanted in chronological order and not reverse chrono - worked like a charm!!
tarmo888 PRO 7 years ago
* photostream = news or blog or feed (newest uploads first)
* multiple uploaded photos = blog entry (re-order items in it any way you want)
* single uploaded photo = blog entry
* set = gallery (re-order items in it any way you want)
* collection = category (re-order items in it any way you want)

Don't take your photostream as gallery, think of it like a little extra that Flickr does to show your latest uploaded stuff. If you don't like your newstream (oops, I mean photosteam), maybe you find some layout which emphasize more your collections and sets.

We are fighting against wrong thing, we don't need to re-order the photostream. Some people go so far that they change upload dates (don't mess with past!), you will regret it later when Flickr does what we actually need, which is a new layout for front page - option to show only collections or sets or both (aka option to hide photostream).
admin
FlyButtafly PRO Posted 7 years ago. Edited by FlyButtafly (admin) 7 years ago
I just had to do this with my current batch I uploaded the other day. I wanted to upload in reverse chronological order, and had to manually drag and drop everything into the right order. Ugh. I would love a "reverse order" button.
Arie's Photography Posted 7 years ago. Edited by Arie's Photography (member) 7 years ago
I'd just settle for an uploader that wouldn't freeze and then create duplicates. In a perfect world I wish they'd just give us FTP access (there is a reason why it's been going strong since 1973)
rondure 7 years ago
Omg, I thought I was the only one. I have to manually re-order everything everytime! Please somebody add this feature already.

I love flickr and will keep paying for my pro account for years to come. The biggest thing that I currently hate is uploading photos and having to re-order everything one by one.

:(
Patrick Costello PRO 7 years ago
Why not use the web page?
That uploads in the order I add pictures to it.
gwennie2006 7 years ago
Well, that's odd, because I have only ever used the web-based uploader, and mine are always in the inverse order of how I select them. Its no biggy because I just load them backwards, but the order on my web based uploader is in reverse. Does yours upload the first photo you select on the top of any series? Mine puts it last always, which makes it different from the way I selected it.

+1 I would like more control on order on upload.
Wil C. Fry PRO 7 years ago
"Well, that's odd, because I have only ever used the web-based uploader, and mine are always in the inverse order of how I select them."

But you can add them to the upload interface in any order you want.

If you select a large number of images and add them at once, it'll decide the order for you. But if you add images to the interface one at a time, it'll upload them in the order you add them to the interface (the last one you add will be the last one it uploads).

Also, in the third-party uploader I use (available in the App Garden), I can drag-and-drop images into the order I like.

However, the OP here is talking about Flickr's Uploadr, which staff have said is no longer under development.
gwennie2006 7 years ago
Oh, I know but I prefer the web based. I don't batch anyhting. I wasn't complaining, I was just saying that it is in reverse order, as Patrick's may be different. I don't know.
kitby PRO 7 years ago
In my experience with the web uploaders, the first photo listed is the first to be uploaded, the second photo listed is the second to be uploaded, and so on. Thus, the last photo listed is the last to be uploaded, and thus the one appears at the top/beginning of your photostream (because the photostream orders photos from most recently uploaded to least recently uploaded).
Patrick Costello PRO 7 years ago
+1

In other words "That uploads in the order I add pictures to it." :-)
Andrew Celentano 6 years ago
Yes, this would be a great idea - I see know easy intuitive way to do this and as a new user, I dont want to go back now and resort 140 images one at a time !!
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