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[m]vortex 5:00pm, 7 January 2009
2008 WARNING: Don't buy the D80. The new D90 completely obsoletes it. If money matters, buy the almost identical D40, and if not, the D90 is a complete generation beyond the old D80. Please treat the rest of this review as an historical artifact, written in 2007.


Ridiculous !!
Pay attention for "completely obsoletes" and "almost identical D40".
Sadly, people still buy cameras behind his advices.
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The Blue Boy 8 years ago
Ken Rockwell should be shot in the neck.
Paul Xland PRO 8 years ago
Well, that does it. I have to sell my D80....

How sad
Photos By Zoe 8 years ago
Paul Xland or donate it to me ;o)
Jesterous 8 years ago
Ken who?!?!
Something For Kate PRO 8 years ago
almost identical D40 - eh??

Orbmiser 8 years ago
Mom!.... They Are Picking On Kenny Again !
Jeremy D. Meier Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Jeremy D. Meier (member) 8 years ago
Yeah, I don't put any credit behind a word that Ken says. I've read his reviews, and basically I think he's got nothing better to do than review things he hasn't seen, etc.... What a stupid man......
Jeremy D. Meier 8 years ago
I especially like the review where he said that the SB-400 is a better flash than the 600/800 series because it wasn't so large on top of the camera..... Idiot....
Dadooron [deleted] 8 years ago
I'm sure Ken Rockwell makes these sorts of statements in order to provoke flaming on various forums. It gets traffic to his site and generates income.

Ho hum.
John Rav 8 years ago
not to defend KR, (he has to spend way to much time himself doing this) but. ..

This is if you do not currently have a D80 and are starting fresh. paying $650 now for a new D80, vs $900 - 1000 for a D90. That is not terrible advice to go to skip the D80.

It's funny, as he is the first to complain about 'upgrade-itus' and it's the photographer, not the camera.

I have a tired D50 and am looking at the D80 and D90. . or just better glass or nothing at all. ? ? ? it's not easy, but a great problem to have...
rich_gersh PRO 8 years ago
My favorite Ren Kockwell quote, blatantly copied without permission from his website:

I only update things as I discover errors. I offer no warrantees of any kind, except that there are many deliberate gaffes, practical jokes and downright foolish and made-up things lurking. While this site is mostly accurate, it is neither legally binding nor guaranteed. The only thing I do guarantee is that there is plenty of stuff I simply make up out of thin air, as does The Onion.
mikefranklin PRO 8 years ago
other than price, how is the d80 better than a d90?
KeithFromND 8 years ago
I have a D80 and really like it.

I am not replacing it with a D90, but if I was buying a new camera today and did not already own a D80, I would get the D90. I can't think of any feature the D80 has that the D90 does not. At least not any feature I can't live without.....
Jeremy D. Meier Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Jeremy D. Meier (member) 8 years ago
Here's another jewel from the KR site that makes total sense:

"I prefer the size and weight of my D40, and find its controls much easier, faster and more pleasant to operate than my D80."

Yeah, Controls at your fingertips is BAD!!!!! ?????

I guess if you like flipping through menu's this statement might not be wrong.
[m]vortex 8 years ago
p~d PRO Posted 8 years ago. Edited by p~d (member) 8 years ago
I own a D300 but I missed my D80 so much for skin tones that I just bought a brand new one as a backup before they totally dissapear ! Here's one with my D80 & 24-70 2.8
chimphappyhour 8 years ago
You may not like Ken, but can you ignore Thom? His view of the D80 isn't that high either.
Roadsidepictures 8 years ago
What a moron! The tones with the D80 are better than that of the D90.
ranja1968 8 years ago
For Real!!! It's one mans opinion on a camera, not the cure for cancer, or re-inventing the wheel, or re-writing the bible. Ken's not always right on...but who the heck is??? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. What's pathetic is US Nikonian D-80heads who have nothing better to do than comment on Ken's opinions. Just like the old saying of "opinions are like ".....well you know. Maybe we need to get a life (present company included) . That's all I'm gonna say about that!!!!
ranja1968 8 years ago
Oh ya.... I love my d-80!!!!
Arie's Photography Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Arie's Photography (member) 8 years ago
If you already have it then nobody is saying to upgrade your D80, but if you're looking for a new DSLR -he's got a point. you can get the D90 for less than $900 and it will give you D300 quality pictures. D80's heading for the twilight so if you were buying a camera that you expect to hold on to for at least another 2 years then why not go with the D90?

As for the skin tones are you letting the camera do the processing for you? higher end cameras do much less in camera work since the peopel who use them like to do the post processing themselves.
kay© Posted 8 years ago. Edited by kay© (member) 8 years ago
i just got my d80 this past weekend for a steal (employee/family discount). I was going to get the d40 since the d90 was out of my price range (and therefore not even a consideration) but when my cousin told me he could get me the last d80 in the store for LESS than the d40 I was sold.

Paid less than $450 with 18-135mm lens. To me, this was well worth it. A d90 would have cost almost 2 times that and a d40 would have cost slightly more.

Very happy with my purchase.
buy the D80..................take rockwell's advice with a grain of salt!
Photos By Zoe 8 years ago
thats a fantastic image - and surely the beloved D80 won't disappear...no no no !!
rich_gersh PRO 8 years ago
I remember hearing similar cries of "it's all the camera you'll ever need, why are they discontinuing it" 2 years ago regarding the D50.
stuwilliams PRO 8 years ago
Ken infuriates me. Some really good useful tips now and again, but shed loads of rubbish too. He RAVED about the D80 on launch. It surely doesn't take a genius to figure out that a camera launched nearly 3 years after (the D90) is going to be better. And to say the D40 is near identical, is he having a laugh or what.

For a "pro" photographer I cant recall one of his shots thats made me think WOW, especially given the 10's of thousands of dollars that he must have spent over the years. And his site looks like it was done by a 10 year old.

*Rant over*
Jeremy D. Meier 8 years ago
Ha ha!!! I love that last statement! Just sounds funny, thinking of you saying it in anger after the rest of the post. Good one! :-) Oh, I agree BTW....
Andrew McKenna 8 years ago
I just googled 'the onion'
Read all about the new Macbook Wheel. hahah :)
{SweetFields} Krysten 8 years ago
Does he seriously just make shit up sometimes? Totally didn't know that...

Honestly, if someone asked me and money was NO object to them, I would tell them to get the d90. If money was no object, I might get one! But the part about it being nearly identical to the d40 just makes me mad.

Funny, we all sound like proud parents with mother-bear syndrome!! LOL!!

LMAO at his site looking like a 10 yr old did it!! Sooooo funny and true! Hahahahaha!!
jdanvers [deleted] Posted 8 years ago. Edited by jdanvers (member) 8 years ago
@PierreD (& Zoe) - agreed - that is a great shot. I don't want to hi-jack or make this thread go off topic but is that the nikkor 2.8 lens? Overall are you happy with it? ( I need to get some good, fast glass as I'm still using the 18-135 kit lens that my d80 came with )
William Brawley PRO Posted 8 years ago. Edited by William Brawley (member) 8 years ago
I like to make things up and stretch the truth if they make an article more fun. In the case of new products, rumors and just plain silly stuff, it's all pretend. If you lack a good BS detector, please treat this entire site as a work of fiction.

so, why do people still take his advice?
photopath PRO 8 years ago
Why on earth would anybody buy a video camera??!!
Brandon D. 8 years ago
Who cares what Ken Rockwell says about the D80?
i'm with brandon............he is nothing more than a photographer.
p~d PRO 8 years ago
Thanks JDanvers. The lens used for my sample is the new Nik 24-70 f2.8 afs. Just about the best one out there for a normal zoom but pretty darn expensive. The main thing is that the D80 can resolve it nicely.
@Brandon D. - more to the point, who cares what Ken Rockwell says about *anything?*
Gar Luc 8 years ago
I bought the D80 as an upgrade from the D40, I am extremely happy with it.
*Tuvy* Posted 8 years ago. Edited by *Tuvy* (member) 8 years ago
almost identical D40 hahahahahahahahaha

I've got a D80, and my husband's got a D40X... it's not even close!
erboardman 8 years ago
If I was Ken Rockwell right now -- and, I'm not -- I'm not saying ... just saying ... (so to speak) ... I'd be like ... F^%@ing kick ass ... check out all the people that go to my site.

Just FYI.
The Blue Boy 8 years ago

Agreed. The Death of this thread should not be mourned.
photojenni:c 8 years ago
With a bit of luck, "Rockwelled" will take on the same relevance as "Godwinned."
Wells Photos Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Wells Photos (member) 8 years ago
I have both the D80 and the D90. I kind of understand what KR is saying on the D90, and, let's face it: It's not bad advice. Why would you buy a 2+ year old camera when the new version of it is out and not that much more expensive? (Assuming you're buying new and not used. There are probably fantastic used deals on D80's right now.)

Anywho, here's a recent quote on KR (I've underlined my favorite part of it):

...surveyed the pro market and found that most pros use film at least some of the time. I've seen the same: people like me doing serious art and landscape work are a small part of the larger market, but all the serious art and landscape people I know use film.

There's something you hear artists say all the time: that they're doing "serious" art.
chramiJi 8 years ago
so is this thread dead yet? hahah!
photojenni:c 8 years ago
Another Ken Rockwell thread will rise it's ugly head in the not too distant future....

...Amen (again)
Saitama-Rama 8 years ago
erboardman 8 years ago
And let it be said ... this thread ... is dead.

Good night, dead thread.
Paul Xland PRO Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Paul Xland (member) 8 years ago
I just wanted you all to know that I;

read the dead thread prior to putting my red head to bed and said....

Ken Rockwell sucks.
striderp64 PRO 8 years ago
If you can get a D80 for a steal go for it, but other if you looking for new dslr then I would go with the D90. A long time ago I read a review did on tripods by Ken Rockwell and just shook my head by the stupidity that he spew out. I forgot what brand of tripod he was taunting but he was saying it was the greatest tripod ever made (It was expensive) and that if you had any other kind of tripod then you just wasted money on junk (he didn't word it that way but you could tell that was what he was thinking).
photojenni:c Posted 8 years ago. Edited by photojenni:c (member) 8 years ago
This quote taken from Mr Rockwell's not so informative site...

"I don't use tripods. Tripods went obsolete with the introduction of digital SLR cameras back in 1999."

What an idiot.

Amen (yet again)
Brandon D. Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Brandon D. (member) 8 years ago
"@Brandon D. - more to the point, who cares what Ken Rockwell says about *anything?*"

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I just didn't want to go there.

People take the guy way too seriously. I couldn't imagine saying that disposable cameras beat the crap out of DSLRs, and then having the whole internet erupt in a riot.

Before I read KR's disclaimer, I could tell that he didn't want to be taken seriously. And it's obvious that he exaggerates his opinions just to see people get riled up. I just think he's exploiting people's vulnerability towards take things too seriously.

I can't wait until people figure out that he's no "Ansel Adams," or the like, making these sort of statements. If you want to learn about photography, read Ansel Adams. If you want a good laugh, read Ken Rockwell.
W.T. Neckbone 8 years ago
I don't need Ken's or Thom's permission to love my D80. 'Nuff said.
{SweetFields} Krysten 8 years ago
I feel bad when things die. Even threads.
{SweetFields} Krysten 8 years ago
I've got a D80, and my husband's got a D40X... it's not even close!

How are you still married? You'd think the d80 envy would be too much for a marriage to survive! :D
Upul R 8 years ago
Well, IMHO.....
It really doesnt matter what Ken, Thom or Dick Tom and Harry says..

If you are happy with it, keep it..
If you are not happy, get a one that make you happy.....
Let you rule your choice, not Ren Kickwell...

billselby9773 8 years ago
Another KR quote:

"The old D300 can be forgotten; it came out in 2007 and has been surpassed by the newer D90. "

Ask any photographer whether they'd rather have a D300 or a D90.

I just bought a D80 about 2 months ago INSTEAD of a D90. If I wanted a video camera, I'd buy one. Also, you have to manually focus the lens when you're using the video feature. Sure, the D300's sensor is attractive to me, but I can't see paying that much more just for the sensor since I'd never use the video camera feature. So far, the sales on the D90 are not what Nikon had hoped for. I'd also bet that the video feature will fail before the shutter does. The D90 is a gimmick camera, and if they hadn't given it video, it would likely be a D80x or something.
john.dart PRO 8 years ago
WOW. Does this mean I can get a real cheap D80 now? Probably in a few months there will be a 24 pixel D Costalot!
basegrinder 8 years ago
even though everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE on this thread has read where ken rockwell says on his site to NOT take any of it seriously.... I will add

depends on you. I like to shoot a lot of street photos at night. A newer low noise sensor is something that I could and would use
basegrinder 8 years ago
skin tones depend on the lens you use as well, but you all knew that already
peterjaena 8 years ago
Ken is selling.... always have always will. Nobody with 1/2 a brain will believe what he is saying.

Unless you go beyond ISO 800, and need video & live view.... then get a D90.

D80 is far from being obselete. I will have mine, and will not sell it. Even if I have a D300 now.
FuzzTheKingOfTrees 8 years ago
I think it depends a lot on the price you can buy each camera for. In the UK a D90 will set you back around £700 including the 18-105VR

A friend of mine just purchased a brand new D80 with 18-55VR and a free bag for £380.

If you've got the money for the D90 then go for it but I think I would rather get a D80 and have £300 for lens, flash, tripod etc.
fuadi_z 8 years ago
Sometimes I think video feature on D90 is to boost video upload to flickr...lol
Rangefindergeneral 8 years ago
Caveat Lector! (reader beware!)
He says it himself!

Anyway he shoots only film these days so all the digital reviews are just to keep his site going.
I still like to read his stuff, but like everything on the interweb read more than one persons view.
@billselby9773 - I can think of a good reason to get a D90 over a D80 without needing the video...

The D90's sensor won't show amp glow like the D80. It was *designed* to be charged for longer periods of time, and likely has a whopping heat sink to prevent it. This means you can shoot long exposure/night exposure without getting those damned purple corners.

I also think the video capability is just a gimmick, and that Ken Rockwell's an ass, but the D90 *is* a better camera overall than the D80.
Nikon Norm PRO Posted 8 years ago. Edited by Nikon Norm (member) 8 years ago
I would not even think of trading my D80 for a D90 as the movie mode (with its Jello pans) would be (for me) an extraneous and unnesessary extra feature. I went so far as to get myself a spare D80 body this past summer for a backup.
Arun HC 8 years ago
IMO , kenrockwell is perfect for an amateur who is just stepping in to photography but the problem then is he will never let the amateur turn pro or even semipro ken will always keep the amateur there with his recommendation for basic bodies and kit lens.
{SweetFields} Krysten 8 years ago
ITA with you, and I swear, you're one of the first ppl I have "heard" say this. Why the hell would I need a movie mode on my freakin' dSLR? I have a camcorder for that! Sheesh! And the d90 has this crappy little mono mic, so you're taking vids of soundless still life? Much like a.....ahem...photograph?
Ŀiam 8 years ago
Why the fuck do you all care about the movie mode? Even if you had a D90, you could never, ever turn it on, and then you just have a camera that's a whole lot better than the D80.

And I say this as someone who couldn't dream of affording a D90.
The Blue Boy 8 years ago
OK. If this thread won't die, lets go off topic.


You got it working OK then chuck?

Meleager PRO 8 years ago
Hitler. Nazis.
Jeremy D. Meier 8 years ago
Don't forget Ken's stance on who is pro, and who is amateur.... Pro's have to start out shooting in or right out of college... If you didn't start there, you're not "pro" level... So, all you folks out there shooting every day for a living as your only income source, consider yourlelves AMATEURS! :-) Ha ha!

Sorry, I just can't help it...... It's become an addiction........
photojenni:c 8 years ago
hmm....off topic.....

Chelsea is a crap football team. Long live Acrinton Stanley.
The Blue Boy 8 years ago


Top stuff!
photojenni:c 8 years ago
billselby9773 8 years ago
Vote Quimby!
{SweetFields} Krysten 8 years ago
How 'bout football SUCKS in general?

I can't stop feeding this thread, it's like a horrible addiction now.
photojenni:c 8 years ago
Careful, Krysten...you'll suffer terrible indigestion!
rlbourne 8 years ago
I was going to buy a D60 then after reading Kens glowing review on the D80 I rushed out and bought the D80 just to prove that this camera rocks. Oh and how it rocks.
Wells Photos 8 years ago
D40 + SB-400 + JPG BASIC is all you need.

(busy) Posted 8 years ago. Edited by (busy) (member) 8 years ago
billselby9773 8 years ago
Krysten Krysten Krysten Krysten Krysten ....We have failed you. For that, we are truly sorry.


gangulyarchan 8 years ago
Guys and gals, please lets not fight over this. Let's get the facts straight. Ken Rockwell has to rate the D90 higher than the D80 because the more the number of clicks on the camera shop links on his page, the more he earns. So its all business. He will say the same thing for another new model a year down the line.
I am not saying that the D90 is not better than the D80 but we all have to live within our means. I have not seen a beggar like KR who asks for $5 checks on his site. If he wants to review anything he should do it for free. After all photography is a passion and not a business for me at least.
As far as Thom Hogan goes, his reviews should be taken seriously by pros and people who have oodles of dollars. He rates the D700 as the perfect 5 and the D3 was perfect 5 some years back but I can't buy a D700 or a D300 and spend $1000 on tripods and astronomical figures on lenses. So I don't really care.
We all love the D80 and as someone mentioned earlier we don't need anyone's permission to love it.
Photometrika 8 years ago

Hey, football is just something to do on Saturdays until basketball season starts.

Go Heels!!
Jesterous 8 years ago
you'll never walk alone this season...!!!
mätty 8 years ago
Sometimes I look at KR's posted pictures just to make me feel better about myself as an amatuer photographer.
wwzboy 8 years ago
D80 有他的好处 D90 也有他的好处。各有利弊、
Good.Chemistry PRO 8 years ago
The only thing I read that made sense so far is,


Also, are we talking about american football or FOOTBALL?

(trails off w/ some JT... In my mind I'm going to Carolina...)
billselby9773 8 years ago
American FOOTBALL.

Not that activity with the poka dotted ball. ;)
marykays0669 8 years ago
I think he loves attention...I know he loves donations
Andrew McKenna 8 years ago
American Football is Rugby for jessies ; )
Rangefindergeneral 8 years ago
American Football Tee Hee Hee.
Talking of basketball, invented by a Canadian he used a peach basket as the goal first played in 1891 it took till 1906 for someone to workout that the game would be easier to play if they cut the bottom out of the basket, till then poles and ladders were used to get the ball back. Canadians Tee Hee Hee.

I had a dog named minton who had an unfortunate habit of eating
Bad minton.
Two men are in a pub. One says to his mate 'My mother-in-law is an angel'.
The reply from his friend...... 'You're so fu*king
lucky... Mine's still alive...'

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of Ren Cockwells pages and notice the begging bowl...
jgsprenger PRO 8 years ago
I looked earlier this week, and it looks like Kenny is moving back to film.... yay for us! now he can leave all the DSLR people alone...
Lee & Sorrel PRO 8 years ago
I've had a D40 which got broke, therefor I decided to get a D80 just before the D90 came out - I was sceptical about the previews of the D90 so decided to go for a camera I knew had a good review.

Had it have happend now, then I probablly would definetley have missed out the D80, simply because of the price gap small price gap betweent he D80 and D90, but I'm more than happy with my D80 and unless anything disasterous goes wrong with the D80 I can't seem myself getting a D90. (I wouldn't mind a Canon 400D though)
Dutile Photography [deleted] 8 years ago
I just picked up a D80 a few weeks ago. I'm incredibly happy with it for the price. Yes, the D90 is a better camera, however, there are some great discounts on the D80 right now that allow someone jumping in to digital photography to also purchase additional equipment like carrying case/back pack, lenses, tripod, etc.

The price gap is still in favor of the D80. If price really isn't an issue for you between the D80 and D90, well then you have neither. You probably have a D700 or Canon 5D Mark II. If price doesn't matter that much, it would be far better to save a bit more and get the far superiors.

My only problem with his review is calling it obsolete. That's just pure hyperbole.
ric_hammond PRO 8 years ago
Rugby is for meatheads that can't make the football team. ;-)
{SweetFields} Krysten 8 years ago
shottwokill PRO 8 years ago
Well at best it's a reason to get a D300, At worse, I keep my D80 and Ken stops sending me christmas cards.
zald98 8 years ago
Wow! thanks guys....i'm really entertained by this thread. But I'm off to the 1st Tee Box . Any body else like Golf?
ohiochoir 8 years ago
This needs to be a "sticky" thread"! Say ken rockwell in a thread and it gets 100+ hits!
ohiochoir 8 years ago
Hahaha...this is post #100!
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