Discussions (54)

Link Collection for the Fischinger//UngeHoyre Case

third clover [deleted] says:

Textblog Article from Jan 16:
mareenfischinger.de/textblog/2007/01/as-some-of-you-have-...

"Everything gets back to you at some point.

As some of you have already noticed, Unge Høyre, the youth division of Høyre (Norway's Conservative Party) felt free to illegally use a copyrighted photograph showing my sister on the cover of one of their political "magazines", XTRA, for several months.
Just now, after they received my 5-page letter with a cease-and-desist declaration at the end, the website of Unge Høyre where you were obviously suggested to download a PDF of the magazine, has been changed.

Kåre Sandvik of Flickr was the first one to realize the (ab)use, when – at work at his post office in Bergen, Norway – the magazine (with a print circulation of 20,000) slipped through his hands. He snapshot the cover with his cell phone camera and dropped me a comment under my Flickr image.
Unfortunately, this was in September 2006, and I didn't actually see the comment until the end of December. Kåre and I were in contact then and I (with some experience from cases in the past) sent the letter to the responsible editor in Norway.

In the meantime, Erik Fossen, journalist with Bergens Tidende (Bergen Times), contacted me. Tomorrow, an article about the little scandal is being published in the paper.
Let's see what Norway's second biggest political party has to say to that.

Thank you all for keeping your eyes open so much.

Vivien's feelings? She does not want to be used for political messages!"



How Kaare discovered the abuse:
www.flickr.com/photos/kaare/242445633/

+++ General Discussion+++
Discussion in Mareen Fischinger's Flickr Stream:
www.flickr.com/photos/mareen/359467975/

Discussion on case in Vivia's Flicky:
www.flickr.com/photos/vivia/361536883/


+++ The newspaper Bergen Times+++
Norwegian BT article by Erik Fossen:
www.bt.no/innenriks/article332174.ece

Original Article translation and discussion in Kaare's Flicky:
www.flickr.com/photos/kaare/360770110/

Norwegian BT article follow-up:
www.bt.no/bergenpuls/kultur/article332686.ece

And Kaare's translation again:
www.flickr.com/photos/mareen/359467975/#comment7215759448...

+++ PLEASE USE THIS FORUM STARTING TODAY +++
Originally posted at 12:47AM, 19 January 2007 PDT (permalink)
third clover edited this topic ages ago.

third clover [deleted] says:

I just found articles on German websites about this:

Flickr als Selbstbedienungsladen?
finyard.blogspot.com/2007/01/flickr-als-selbstbedienungsl...

Bilderklau
www.stanley-goodspeed.com/2007/01/bilderklau/
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Just got an email from their lawyer...
Here is an excerpt:

"(...) my client is willing to offer a final and total settlement not exceeding 2.000 Euro. This would cover any possible claim from you, your sister or any other person or legal body with reference to the incident described in your letter."

Claiming that: "(...) it seems clear that the use of the image in question is commonly compensated somewhere in the range of 350 – 700 Euro." – What is he talking about?? The fee for the image would have already been 1,240 Euro for regular non-political usage.
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

eins-live.de/magazin/aktionen/2007/01/bilderklau.jsp

Article on a radio station website that is featuring the case all day tomorrow (Thursday) on air. Vivs went to give an interview on Wednesday afternoon.
ages ago (permalink)

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kirjoittaessani says:

I guess this was to be expected. They want to minimize the damage they suffer, hoping that you will not go to court. After all, on the high seas and in court, you are in God's hands alone — there is a certain risk involved in sueing. Personally, I hope you will take the issue to court and show them this is not the way anyone should behave — least of all a political party.
On the other hand, if you are willing to settle, their lawyer would be stupid to volunteer the maximum amount they are willing to pay, so 2000 EUR is not the end of it.
Whatever you do: Good luck!
ages ago (permalink)

innate winter [deleted] says:

Don't back down, Mareen!
They know, that they have no chance, but want to minimize their possible damage ...
I believe they will have to accept your offering, because in the end, it's the only way.
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Yea, 1Live is doing something, too, I think. There has been a statement from the party again, that they are very sorry... they should tell their lawyer.
Anyway, I didn't hear it myself.
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Just got a call from WDR Fernsehen (TV)... I think they might go visit sissy girl later today.

(Gotta work, gotta make a living and meet my deadlines.)
ages ago (permalink)

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martin rieger says:

The offer seems to be a bad joke. They want to clean their public image and misuse the distance between bergen and DUS...
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Tonight on televosion (they got me to go too)

WDR, 18:50-19:30 Aktuelle Stunde
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
third clover edited this topic ages ago.

innate winter [deleted] says:

Aktuelle Stunde.
Whatever. I'll try to get home in time and record it.
ages ago (permalink)

bashful legs [deleted] says:

WDR, 18:50 - 19:30 Aktuelle Stunde

I'm curious about it.
ages ago (permalink)

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noahstone says:

2,000 Euros seems to be based on twice the cost of having licensed the photo legitimately. You need to counter with a fee based on the possible amount of money you could hope to make from a photo in its lifetime. No future buyer is going to want to use a photo that has been used before. Counter with $15,000 Euros. That's my suggestion.
ages ago (permalink)

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fabbio says:

Found this online while searching a stupid t-shirt fro a friend's birthday...

it is you isn't it?



this is the url of the website: www.bustedtees.com/female

EDIT BY MAREEN: Everything's fine about this. I used to photograph and also model for BT and Defunker! Thanks for caring though.
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
third clover edited this topic ages ago.

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IMARCHI says:

Hi Mareen,

I must say that these issues interest me a lot, as a specialist in IP and internet legal issues. Some comments that I hope are useful for you:

1. As per your explanation, I assume that in any moment you transfered or agreed with them to use your picture in any manner, ie., that there was not any past understanding with them and you and/or your sister, that maybe it could have misunderstood.

2. In this situation, clearly there are 2 different breaches of rights in this action by this people: (i) as you say, your IP rights (copyright and distribution right) in the picture; and (ii) your sister's right to her privacy and own image, which is contained in the Universal Human Rights Declaration and widely regulated and protected in all the European countries.

2. Having this in mind, in order to calculate the due compensation to you and your sister (2000 euros for the IP rights breach is just a ridiculous tip), you must make them understand that this is not fair enough: we are talking about two breaches as said, and one that affects to such sensitive right as is the privacy and image right of your sister.

3. Other things to consider when calculating the compensation:

- did this magazine have a purchase price? how much did they earn from selling the magazine? You say they printed 20.000 magazines. Then, multiply 20000 by the price of each magazine and there you have a fair compensation for the breaches.

- if the magazine did not have a price, then its a bit more difficult. What noahstone was saying is a good argument. But think also about your sisters privacy right. That should be also compensated. Did all this affect her somehow? any moral damage? Also, what revenues did this people get by using the picture? How much does it normally cost a picture to include it in a magazine? how much does it normally cost to pay a model for photograph her? I'm sure you know all this from your work.

All these are good arguments for you to negotiate with them and get the most. I am not saying you can get all of this extents. But this may help you to clear out your position and answer their lawyer.

Ah. all this are just unselfish advices, which I hope they help you. But do not follow them if you dont like!!!!

Good luck! Nacho.
ages ago (permalink)

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JENRIKS says:

I would stay with the claim. You can only win and I think, 2.000 Euro is not enough. So don't accept this ridiculous offer!

You can't compare to a case, where a magazine pays a regular fee for using an image. They broke two very important (personal) rights and it's not done with paying some hundred Euros subsequently.
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
JENRIKS edited this topic ages ago.

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AndiH says:

fabbio: Mareen has made some shots for busted tees some time ago - www.flickr.com/search/?q=busted+tees&w=96531201@N00
so I think it's quite ok (also I don't know the exact details of the you-may-use-my-photos contract)

Edit: Didn't reload the page before posting, so I didn't see Mareens editing of your post ... you may ignore this posting ;).
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
AndiH edited this topic ages ago.

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Project 404 says:

Bloody conservatives.

Good luck with this.
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Noone recorded the radio interview at around 6:17 pm today?

WDR team in our Viersen living room
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
third clover edited this topic ages ago.

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thowi says:

No. But I recorded the "Aktuelle Stunde" TV Show. Digital Signal with TV Card, so quite good quality, maybe not the best here @ youtube because of compressing and so on.... If you like to get the original mpg in much better resolution and without that stupid watermark, send me a message and I'll upload it for you (~520MB).

So long, check the youtube version: KLICK HERE

Good luck with the following steps... Keep us in the loop!
ages ago (permalink)

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martin rieger says:

i could offer some webspace for the tv show. so mareen could load it.
ages ago (permalink)

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thowi says:

Thanks for offering. Got my own webspace, so I think I'll take that :D
Or burn on CD and send it by post.
ages ago (permalink)

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Angell - says:

I have emailed this story to top pro photog mag in the UK (British Journal of Photography) as there has been a lot of discussion recently on the effect and threat of Orphan Works legislation (aka the Gowers Report) and though your work is clearly NOT orphan it is topical to the whole copyright issue.

Hopefully we'll get some media coverage on this in the UK...
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Cool, April Angell, keep us posted, would you?
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
third clover edited this topic ages ago.

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Angell - says:

sure thing.
ages ago (permalink)

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Kaare says:

Looks like you've been busy :) I've posted a translation of the new article in Bergens Tidende in the photo pool.

Regarding what naching said about the price... the magazine is free. There might be a smallish annual fee, but thats for the party membership. The parties get most of their cash from the state based on the number of members they have. The cost of the magazine is funded by this.
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
Kaare edited this topic ages ago.

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Aeioux says:

Hi Mareen, what an interesting story!

My take on this is along the lines of what noahstone had to say.

With the story around this image getting bigger by the day, the chances of someone else licensing the same image in future get smaller. I'd push for a better offer with a solicitor's letter but bearing in mind how slow and costly legal cases can get. Sometimes it's best to laugh at these things and move forward concentrating on what you enjoy doing. Good luck with it!
ages ago (permalink)

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JENRIKS says:

Any news so far? Please give us an update, Mareen!
ages ago (permalink)

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soleá says:

i am solea
and i just found out that a magazine stole one of my photos.. i can learn from your experience!!
thx for this Mareen..
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

The update is that the party paid twice the regular price and thinks I am quiet now.
But as I promised, I am talking to a lawyer.
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Basic Thinking Acticle:
www.basicthinking.de/blog/2007/01/29/bilder-fischinger-vs...

WZ newspaper online:
www.wz-newsline.de/sro.php?redid=143843

RP newspaper online:
www.rp-online.de/public/article/regional/niederrheinsued/...
ages ago (permalink)

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toe2000_99 says:

Mareen Bravo! if you need support just let me know.

We should register all these actions hier, because it happens a lot.
ages ago (permalink)

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martin rieger says:

Any update?
ages ago (permalink)

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Bernardo de Garay says:

I read this news googlewatch.eweek.com/content/yahoo/yahoo_sued_for_10m_fo... and I thought on your case, the difference she is suing Yahoo for $20 million. ;)
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

The update is here!

UHL excused themselves. They are sorry, and have compensated us for the damage done. After all, the case is settled.

Thank you guys for all your support!

++++
Kaare, did you receive my emails and the package? (– Update: He says he did)
Originally posted ages ago. (permalink)
third clover edited this topic ages ago.

third clover [deleted] says:

www.bt.no/bergenpuls/tv/article354410.ece last article about the topic.
ages ago (permalink)

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Kaare says:

Here is a rough translation of the last article (april 10th)
www.flickr.com/photos/kaare/478909085/
ages ago (permalink)

third clover [deleted] says:

Hey guys,

two German organisations (political and network, both officially owned by the country) have also written their pieces about the case:

fluter.de/look/article.tpl?IdLanguage=5&IdPublication...
www.zdf.de/ZDFheute/inhalt/18/0,3672,5394834,00.html
ages ago (permalink)

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jimgoldstein says:

So glad I found this. I've been tracking situations like this on Flickr. I've pointed my blog to this group. I hope you don't mind. Glad to see everything ended well with this case.
ages ago (permalink)

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