(1 to 100 of 157 replies)
Rohan Phillips 6:24am, 8 August 2007
Stephen Shore doesn't seem to be too fond of flickr.

alecsoth.com/blog/2007/08/08/where-are-the-great-pictures...
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(1 to 100 of 157 replies)
GustavoG 11 years ago
So forget about fame and membership stats. Tell me, where are the great pictures on Flickr?

In my photostream. Just ask my mother.
iansand 11 years ago
Just another snob.

Nothing to see here. Move along please.
M-u-z 11 years ago
So tell me, who is the arbiter of 'greatness'?
Lisanne! 11 years ago
Oh no, what will all his fans here say?

www.flickr.com/groups/stephen_shore/
Lisanne! 11 years ago
Shouldn't we be devastated or something?
'SeraphimC 11 years ago
I for one am horribly crushed.

Oh look! A yellow bellied sapsucker!
*wanders away*
admin
♥ shhexy corin ♥ 11 years ago
*rubs yellow belly*
༺lifemage༻ 11 years ago
*sucks some sap*
vapours 11 years ago
Where are the great pictures anywhere?
-RobW- 11 years ago
Where have all the flowers gone?

Oh, never mind. Found them.
-RobW- Posted 11 years ago. Edited by -RobW- (member) 11 years ago
Going on to Flickr and complaining that there are hardly any good photos amongst the thousands of "crap" shots is like walking into a Lidl superstore and complaining that there is only one jar of nice olives.
sweet distin 11 years ago
I only wated one jar of nice olives anyway.
-Mainframe- 11 years ago
I think this is one of the guys that would be living in the only tree and the world is flooded with piss and he'd still complain.
personne.de.chandigarh Posted 11 years ago. Edited by personne.de.chandigarh (member) 11 years ago
There are definitely some over there . Mr. Shore is entitled to his own opinion, of course.
sweet distin 11 years ago
Although, .............. if you just stumbled into flickr it would be pretty hard to find the type of photography that you appreciated (unless sunsets and flower macros are what appeals to you).....generally it means building your own community and you're not going to get that after a couple of hours of cruising around.
Omsel 11 years ago
When i first came to Flick years ago for a look i thought the same.

They probably made the same mistake by viewing "everyones photos", which contains about 1 in 100 to the art venue.

Those guys just sittin around too giving each other verbal gif pasties. Least we have fabulous superb colourful ones here.
admin
striatic 11 years ago
'They probably made the same mistake by viewing "everyones photos", which contains about 1 in 100 to the art venue.'

"everyone's photos" is a work of art in and of itself.
iansand 11 years ago
striatic Folk art.
Omsel 11 years ago
It is but needs to be appriciated as a body of work rather than singular images....and of course the standard welders goggles.
-RobW- 11 years ago
Fart, for short.
quarrelsome nose [deleted] 11 years ago
Stephen Shore is hardly the world's most inspiring photographer - I can't find any examples of his work that have "blown me away".

Sure, back in the 60's and 70's he might have been a bit of an innovator, but to me his work looks mediocre and dated - The same way that special effects from 1950's science fiction now look dated when compared with modern movies.

Let him have his opinions, everyone is entitled to behave like a spoilt child at least once in their lives ;)
It doesn't surprise me at all what Shore said. Way back in my "Salad Days" to use a conventional phrase, I took photography courses under the Grand Mastery of one Stephen Shore.

Mr. Shore(Are Your Sure?) is a pompous, arrogant, nasty son of a bitch! No cropping, no dodging and certainly no originality. I did derive most of my compositional sense from him even there was nothing anyone could do that would fully his narrow tastes.\

I joined The Stephen Shore group here on flickr to see what was being produced in the name of the Stephen The Great. Not all that much last I checked. Nobody at all can measure up to the man. I have to take his latest virulent verbiage with a grain of salt.
sweet distin Posted 11 years ago. Edited by sweet distin (member) 11 years ago
@paul rowson

Obviously not inspiring to you........but inspiring to me :)
I really like his work.
sweet distin Posted 11 years ago. Edited by sweet distin (member) 11 years ago
@paypaul

Damn!
Bitter or what!!
Shore should join flickr. Perhaps he can bring us all up a notch.
Someone buy the Great Man a Flickr account. We all must be just like him. What do have to look forward to endlessly? Flat colored houses and dried out skies. HDR will be banned under Shore.. what about Cat photos?
mojolicious 11 years ago
RobW, Lidl sell some mean marmalades.
sweet distin 11 years ago
@paypaul

I guess his comments brought back your time in the classroom with him.
If you've got no respect for the man why do you give a shit what he thinks?
Lusername 11 years ago
Guess he doesn't like kittens :-(
admin
striatic 11 years ago
'It is but needs to be appriciated as a body of work rather than singular images....and of course the standard welders goggles.'

you can find lots of great photos in there.

most aren't "calculated" for greatness, but so what?
Jayel Aheram 11 years ago
You can both respect someone and do something that would is totally the opposite of what he does. It is good to be inspired by someone's work, but do not let the work be inspired by someone's else's work. Create your own style.

And I agree with Sweet Distin. Why care what this guy thinks?

Disclaimer: I have no idea who the fuck he is.
Lisanne! 11 years ago
From what I understand, Shore is a dynamic individual who leaves a strong impression on those he interacts with. I would think that having him as an photography instructor would be an intense experience. One that could transcend time and bring back the same reactions years later.
-RobW- 11 years ago
"RobW, Lidl sell some mean marmalades"

I bet they do. I bought some burgers there once when I was a student. They were mean. In fact, they were downright vicious. Never again.
Lisanne! Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Lisanne! (member) 11 years ago
And BTW, I think he would actually like photos of kittens, if they were composed properly. It seems that it is "arty photography" that he finds most objectionable in Flickr.

Another quote about Flickr from Shore.

I went on Flickr and I saw thousands of pieces of shit. What they had in common was they all tried to be art. Then a couple weeks ago a friend told me about a fabulous online treasure, EBAY. The photos to sell things like water bottles. And those pictures are fabulous!

That's what I liked about postcards. They're simple and show something.


fallonandrosof.blogspot.com/2006/10/stephen-shore-on-phot...
admin
♥ shhexy corin ♥ 11 years ago
I bet they do. I bought some burgers there once when I was a student. They were mean. In fact, they were downright vicious. Never again.

But they're opening a new one on London Road - you must try again!
stupendous cattle [deleted] 11 years ago
I confess I am ignorant when it comes to who's who in photography and contemporary art in general.

I have given a look at Stephen Shore work and I have found that he certainly masters composition and has a good eye for interesting details. Much more than others.

Other than that, nothing special, really.
admin
♥ shhexy corin ♥ 11 years ago
God, his stuff is boring enough to be on Flickr.
admin
♥ shhexy corin ♥ 11 years ago
dr_loplop 11 years ago
Hi, I'm an admin for the wonk group and we'd love to have your photo added to the group.
Lusername 11 years ago
Corin you're right, that one left me nearly speechless.

www.billcharles.com/shore/stephenshore_9.htm
"Suburban Cowboy" in Details Magazine
See what he's done there, genius. Would have looked better with kittens tho'

Still looks like snapshots "trying to be art" to me

Talking of kittens Mr Shore might like to have a look at some of *MAR's photostream, there's one or two there that he might find passable
www.flickr.com/photos/belovedstraycat/997837918/
admin
♥ shhexy corin ♥ 11 years ago
The way he manages to capture the soul of the concrete has left me breathless
Jim Skea 11 years ago
I wouldn't read too much into it. Some people think they have to write provocative things on their blogs, just to get the views and comments. It's like using HDR on words.
RoninVision 11 years ago
Who the hell is Stephen Shore? Is he related to Pauly?
mojolicious 11 years ago
It's like using HDR on words.

What a beautiful concept.
superb yam [deleted] 11 years ago
Never heard about Mr.Shore before, so I had to Google and found 70ties American photo-realism badly composed and with no sense of color or detail.
I far prefer Richard Estes, John Baeder, Ralph Goings etc. at least they control the art of image making.
Ryan Brenizer 11 years ago
Shore … Parr … it's interesting that the photographer who hate Flickr the most are the ones who are famous even though their work is kinda crap … or, to be artsy, exploring the mundane. Millions of random Flickr shots are taken each day that could seamlessly be placed in one of their galleries, and they have to hate that. Big-time commercial photographers spare their ire, because they do stuff that you simply can't do with just a camera and a love for shooting. Other than Velasquez, there aren't many Flickrites with full-time production crews, or the kind of work that comes from them.
requis 11 years ago
Gee, and I thought Flickr’s purpose was to provide the best online photo management and sharing application in the world.

I thought their two main goals were to: 1. Help people make their photos available to the people who matter to them and 2. Enable new ways of organizing photos.

I simply must laugh at those who take this so seriously. Flickr is supposed to be fun!
Carmen Cordelia 11 years ago
people find what they're looking for
flawless chin [deleted] 11 years ago
@Carmen
exactly. Participation usually helps. Condescension usually doesnt
ⓅⒶⓎⓅⒶⓊⓁ Posted 11 years ago. Edited by ⓅⒶⓎⓅⒶⓊⓁ (member) 11 years ago
Sweet Distin
I guess his comments brought back your time in the classroom with him.
If you've got no respect for the man why do you give a shit what he thinks?


I respected his abilities and if you had read my entire post you would have seen that I spoke of his lessons in composition which I still carry with me. However that doesn't change the fact that his style is not my cup of tea for the most part and that he is an arrogant, elitist, pompous SOB. He does of course still teach at Bard College which has another pompous individual running it.One can respect certain aspects of anyone's point of view but still disagree with their method of delivery.

I had another professor who also had a bit of arrogance about him but he also had a better method of explaining his style and principles. Bernard Greenwald is a printmaker who taught a much more important lesson: Art is not precious. As soon as it becomes precious all creativity is stifled and you can't create anything more from it.

Printmaking is about altering a woodcarving or metal plate to as many permutation as one can to produce art that satisfiies the creative urge. After that you alter it some more to create something else entirely. The Photographic process comes out of that tradition and technique. Stephen Shore refused to acknowledge the use of the tools of Photography to their utmost. In the heyday of the Darkroom, the skills of using toner, fixer, dodging and burning allowed alterations to be done to a photograph to create something completely new and unique. Stephen Shore's photographs have their place for sure yet if he's going to call the rest of the world of photography shit, then I have no respect for the man for that reason alone.
purplewon2000 11 years ago
I have no idea who this dude is, but clearly he's looked at my photos to base his judgment on the 10,000,000 flickr users. I want to know is, is how many people use flickr to showcase their talent, and how many are living far from family and friends, and are letting them know what's going on in their lives by Flickr.
Wooble 11 years ago
From what I can tell about this guy (who I just heard of now), I'd say that he probably thinks the random snapshots are better than the "artistic" photos here. Just look at his style.
aquatic glove [deleted] 11 years ago
I have to assume that stephen shore is pretty right.
of course there are good pictures on flickr.. but it's a fish in the ocean...
sweet distin 11 years ago
@paypaul
I did read your entire post however it was your personal attack on him that hit me the most.

I do spend time in the darkroom and appreciate what's possible in there, but I still prefer to work in a similar manner to Shore.
*But*...... I really don't care how anyone appropaches their photography....if you want to crop to hell or burn away the b/g , then go for it....it's your picture and it'd be helluva boring if we all did the same thing and produced the same pictures.
Do whatever makes you happy...it's your art....your vision.

There will always be someone around telling you the *right* way or the *better* way to do things, or pointing out why yours is shit and theirs is great...generally I find it's easiest just to smile and carry on doing exactly what you like :)
My point exactly Sweet Distin. Thank you.
It's personal yet it is Shore that's doing the attacking.
Jim Skea 11 years ago
have to assume that stephen shore is pretty right.
of course there are good pictures on flickr.. but it's a fish in the ocean...


But the experienced fishermen are wise enough to take the time to find out where the fish concentrate. Independently of your opinions about Shore's approach to photography, he seems to be a complete beginner at fishing.
Stephen Rees Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Stephen Rees (member) 11 years ago
Stephen Shore was self taught, yet he is himself a teacher. He appears to think that he has a unique gift that he bestows, sparingly, on those who think him great. But having looked at the output people on this thread have pointed me to, I really am not impressed. His photography leaves me cold.

There are many pictures on flickr that I wish I had taken. But flickr pictures are seen in amongst millions, and briefly, on an electronic screen. They are not seen on a big blank wall, carefully lit. in a gallery where people creep around and talk in hushed tones. Where they have chosen to go to look at pictures. And even then, there will be very very few that they stop longer than a few seconds before.

And always the same tired dirge about "art"

Feh!

And, by the way, I had never heard of him before I read this thread.

As the guy on the Olympus adds used to say "Who's he?"
sweet distin 11 years ago
*Mwua*

That's to all of us :)
view-askew 11 years ago
Violentz 11 years ago
"have to assume that stephen shore is pretty right.
of course there are good pictures on flickr.. but it's a fish in the ocean"


Utter crap. You can find a good picture in just a few minutes on Flickr. Probably even faster..
Space Pant 11 years ago
We all know the great pictures are on myspace.
mojolicious 11 years ago
You can find a good picture in just a few minutes on Flickr.

I just did the 'Seven Days' thing a dozen times. Every page of nine had at least one photo that wouldn't look out of its depth in a newspaper or magazine.
Chris[topher] Lin 11 years ago
90% of everything is crud.

Flickr and all the user-created content make it really really easy to publish, lowering the barrier to do so.
Jim Skea 11 years ago
mojolicious: I just did the 'Seven Days' thing a dozen times. Every page of nine had at least one photo that wouldn't look out of its depth in a newspaper or magazine.

But those sort of photos are exactly what Shore's criticising! Quoting him from the original article

... it’s just all conventional, it’s all cliches, it’s just one visual convention after another.

Now that's probably true if you look through Explore, or the Flickr Central pool. But when I wrote above I was being critical of his lack of effort to look for those photos that are unconventional, and not clichéd. Though it may take a little bit more work to find them, it's not too difficult if you make the effort. For example, I was struck by the similarity of Shore's photos to those of streunerin though, I must say, I think streunerin's work is much better.
mojolicious 11 years ago
But those sort of photos are exactly what Shore's criticising!

Ah yes, I forgot about that. Although that I'd argue that conventions become convention and subsequently cliché for good reason...

I think streunerin's work is much better

I'd agree with you here, too. Although I'd also suggest that the Shore/streunerin 'school' is itself a faux naive, knowing, retro-tinted cliché.

With the zillion pics a day being uploaded here I think the chances of truly original work existing (let alone being discoverable) are very, very slim...
streunerin 11 years ago
a faux naive knowing retro-tinted clichè? wow !! :))
i don't really know what you mean by that but ... wow once again :))
and jim can probably confirm that i almost never wow.
i bet shore would be amused too.
Walwyn 11 years ago
@christopherlin

And in 1902 Peter Kropotkin "Mutual Aid" said that 90% of all Industry was involved in the production of shoddy.
Jayel Aheram 11 years ago
God damn, you all are vicious motherfuckers! :)

Why not let the work stand on its own merit and integrity?

If you like it, then you like it. If not, why do you feel the need to demonize the person?

I look at Mr. Shore's photographs and they do not interest me. It seems a bit too pretentious for my taste. But that is it. I move on.
personne.de.chandigarh Posted 11 years ago. Edited by personne.de.chandigarh (member) 11 years ago
'I can't find any examples of his work that have "blown me away".'


As an amateur,without any professional pretensions, I felt a bit,well, good to see shades of some crude resemblance of this one
lampost sector 17 chandigarh
with
this ,

but one cannot agree with the original contention that forms the title of this thread.
Jim Skea 11 years ago
I can confirm that streunerin almost never wows.
M-u-z 11 years ago
This is particularly impressive
www.billcharles.com/shore/popfiles/shore_pop_sky_1.htm


?? Seriously.... I don't get it. To be honest it looks like someone tripped over and accidentally pressed the shutter release.
mojolicious 11 years ago
a faux naive knowing retro-tinted clichè? wow !! :))
i don't really know what you mean by that but ...


Me neither, but I meant it nicely.

:-)
bullseyephoto 11 years ago
'Granite Oklahoma' is the Stephen Shore shot that stands out for me.......hahahaha, what a fuckin' wanker!
iansand 11 years ago
bullseyephoto You obviously missed Amarillo, New Mexico. I liked the focus work best.
bullseyephoto 11 years ago
@iansand: hahahaha. it's a gem huh? i'm so inspired......
streunerin 11 years ago
mojolicious you are a coward ;)

in my opinion the mistake of 98% of the flickr-people is that they think a photo has to be truly original, outstanding and wowive. but thats not the point of photography. photos have to ask questions, they have to tell a story. they should make you think. and they should maybe make you think a little bit more than "great colours" "good composition" "cute cat". photography is about expressing your own voice, it is giving your topics a soul. if you can't do that you are not a photographer - you are someone who takes photographs. and thats the difference between most of you and someone like shore.
mojolicious 11 years ago
mojolicious you are a coward

Pah! What I meant is that the 'dodgy old cameras pointed at ostensibly uninteresting things and landscapes' is just as much a cliché as kitty cats and flowers and sunsets. They might be more interesting and 'artistic' than cats etc, but just because there are fewer of them about doesn't make it any less formulaic.

photography is about expressing your own voice, it is giving your topics a soul

Now... I can see this in many of your photos, but Shore's? Really? Many of them are nice enough but they're certainly not asking me questions nor telling me stories.
streunerin 11 years ago
dodgy old camera??? a camera is a tool and you choose your tool for the subject very carefully when you are a photographer. and if you want to shoot a subject with a certain dodgy old camera there is always a good reason behind it.
and of course everything becomes a cliché if you repeat or see it often enough.
and thanx for the compliment mojolicious - i really appreciate this - honestly! :)
but i think it is easier to get drawn into the soul or story of a photograph here on flickr than seing one of shore's photos in an exhibition or an online gallery. the reason is that here of course you have much more personal approach to the photographer, you read the comments, you read what i write about my subjects - that makes it easier to get into the story. have you ever looked at a book of shore? i feel a bit stupid defending shore because he definetely doesn't need any defense.
and of course tastes are different. i for example dislike cartier-bresson and the concept of a "decisive moment" because i think it is pretty silly. every moment is a decisive moment.
sweet distin 11 years ago
.....also shores work is a long-term project.....each shot is taken with the intention of contributing to the overall picture....and maybe knowing that can help you to appreciate his photographs.
and no, he's not unique , there are many others in the same genre ...but i do particularly enjoy the view he gives me.
stupendous cattle [deleted] Posted 11 years ago. Edited by stupendous cattle (member) 11 years ago
Hey, please tell me what is in your diet, as you seem to be the only one here that writes sensible and logical concepts.
iansand 11 years ago
Of course Mr Shore's photos are sending a message, or several. One of them is "I knew Andy Warhol, therefore I am cool, and no correspondence will be entered into". Another is "Although my subjects appear banal, and my technique looks sloppy your failure to appreciate my genius is your problem, not mine, because I knew Andy Warhol."
Walwyn 11 years ago
Nope mostly the difference is that when some one like Shore goes out snapping they don't have a significant other badgering them about wanting a drink or the need to get to Aunty Madge's, and the kids aren't running about wanting the toilet.
sweet distin 11 years ago
Walwyn.........I *absolutely* know that situation :)
superb yam [deleted] 11 years ago
Why all this philosophy, about who's a photographer and who is not, and what photography should do or not do? Its that kind of philosophy that makes celebrity out of insignificance.
A photo is an image and as such it makes an impression or it does not. And the means by which it makes an impression, the tools of the image maker, is exactly "great colors" "good composition" and "cute cats" that's your voice and your soul and the tools to tell the story.
Engineer J 11 years ago
Start looking my stream :)
Jim Skea 11 years ago
Ah, I wonder what the users of a Paintr site would have said about Picasso when he started painting rubbish.
_barb_ Posted 11 years ago. Edited by _barb_ (member) 11 years ago
Well, Shore might talk a bit of crap in his spare time but he's certainly a good photographer.
His photos are open ended and they require the viewer to properly look and feel his way through them. Popular Flickr photos like the ones on explore are the opposite, they spell everything out and are like closed entities.
Shore has also worked out how to let a scene speak for itself without the need for heavy post production interference that's so popular with the mainstream.

He's an older guy and probably got a bit grumpy after the hundredth sunset and bug on flower shot, I wish someone could have pointed him towards those flickr users that work with a similar style to him, I think he would have been happily surprised.
Walwyn 11 years ago
A photo is an image and as such it makes an impression or it does not.

If its art the image is unimportant. Its all about the idea behind the image, once that's settled you can send the student out to take the snap, or get the public to send in their own.
www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/pm/windowonyourworld_20061205.s...
Violentz Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Violentz (member) 11 years ago
"He's an older guy and probably got a bit grumpy after the hundredth sunset and bug on flower shot, I wish someone could have pointed him towards those flickr users that work with a similar style to him, I think he would have been happily surprised. "

Perhaps his age, experience and place in the world of photography should have made him bite his tongue when denouncing all the images on a popular photo sharing site that hundreds of thousands of photographers of all levels use. Especially when his own work can easily be dismissed after a first glance without looking further. What exactly was his point? To relay how self-absorbed he is?
longfamilytales 11 years ago
20 years ago the head of IBM said PCs were going no where - the future was mainframes. He was wrong and Stephen Shore is wrong.

The next Annie Leibowitz is on Flickr today learning from the community and refining her craft. And this is threatening to Stephen Shore and a host of other professional photographers.

I work in advertising and I buy a lot of professional photography each month. 5 years ago digital photography threatened the way photgraphers earn their living. It scared them. They adjusted. Flickr scares them. They’ll adjust.

To my Flickr friends out there - keep up the creative process and never let critics get you down. The next Robert Mapplethorpe is among us. Maybe he is a ten year old just learning his craft. One day he’ll look back at comments like Shore’s as terribly short sighted.
spacewolfjaspion 11 years ago
there's a reprinted book you can get at borders called "the nature of photography". guess who wrote it?
The great pictures on Flick are in many places - some well known, others passed by unnoticed by most. Beauty *IS* in the eye of the beholder isn't it? If someone sees no greatness or beauty, perhaps they aren't looking. Or as was mentioned above, afraid to see. ;-)
Lisanne! Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Lisanne! (member) 11 years ago
I think that Shore should get himself a Flickr account so that he can show the rest of us how he thinks it ougght to be done.

Personally, I find his work interesting on one level, but not especially pleasing. Much of it is devoid of any real energy. It works only on some level because it is so expertly composed.

Still, I must admit that looking at a number of his compositions I find a pattern that I must admire for its consistency. He knows what he wants in his work.
Strottner Photography 11 years ago
After reading this thread, I don't think Shore would want to attempt to get a Flickr account...can you imagine how many bashing comments he would receive on a picture? HAHAHA!

I think his photos are inspiring... okay, not. I feel more inspired by my contacts photos than his.

I guess it just depends on what is pleasing to YOUR eye...........
-RobW- 11 years ago
"Ah, I wonder what the users of a Paintr site would have said about Picasso when he started painting rubbish"

They'd have said:

"Ew, you are using the Canon Badger Fur brushes? Everyone knows the Nikon Weasel Underbelly brushes give a greater depth of colour"

"What?! You must be mad! Canon Badger brushes are so much more detailed than the Nikon Weasel ones, and you can add more colour with anything!"

"Hey every1! Nude Cubist Ladies on my gallry! Best u will ever c!"
unbiased trend [deleted] 11 years ago
my grandmother says I am probally one the best photographers she has ever encountered
super steam [deleted] 11 years ago
_barb_ 11 years ago
Violentz, can "dismiss Shore's work at a first glance" because it's not to your own taste, but you can't dismiss him as a professional and artist. He's got his place in contemporary photography, he has worked for over 4 decades and pioneered the use of colour photography in fine art.

His history, acclaim and experience are just so different to that of most flickr users, it seems both him and flickr people have troubles understanding each others' work.
Lisanne! Posted 11 years ago. Edited by Lisanne! (member) 11 years ago
This post precedes the one 7Simon referenced. It was posted yesterday

alecsoth.com/blog/2007/08/09/shore-king-street-fashion/
Tampen Posted 11 years ago. Edited by ƃoʌɐʇsnƃ (admin) 11 years ago
I've said it before and I dare say I'll say it again:

Flickr's greatest photographer is antimethod.

There are a number of his works that might well qualify as the Greatest Photograph Ever Taken, but for now this is my favourite:

endless
regularjoe 11 years ago
Fuck Flickr.

I'm going to join Paintr...
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