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striatic PRO 1:53am, 6 December 2006
recently yahoo has seen a drop off in web advertising revenue, has had a substantial devaluation of their stock .. and rumours have been flying around about what exactly yahoo is going to do to reverse their fortunes.

via the web rag, valleywag:

valleywag.com/tech/breaking/yahoo-reorg-219587.php
"The cuts [at yahoo] are likely to result in the consolidation of competing product lines such as Flickr and Yahoo Photos, and curtailment of the company's Hollywood dealmaking."
personally, i think it is pretty silly to speculate about which services will be consolidated. yahoo does have a lot of redundancies, and flickr/yahoo photos could be considered one of those.

but redundancy isn't innately bad, and flickr and yahoo photos follow very different approaches and cater to different demographics. both are obviously successful in their own ways, and messing with either is a bad idea.

i think that the speculation here is faulty. i do think yahoo will jettison some of its weaker products in the coming months .. but flickr isn't one of those products. there may be more ability to transfer your photos from flickr and into yahoo photos and vice versa .. but yahoo isn't stupid enough to get rid of either.
phoneyman [deleted] 9 years ago
flickr and yahoo photos follow very different approaches and cater to different demographics

Really? Which demographics?

Pierre
Dr_Watso PRO 9 years ago
"...isn't stupid enough..."

I don't use that phrase much anymore...
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striatic PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by striatic (admin) 9 years ago
Really? Which demographics?

yahoo photos is set up as more of a web gallery, which means that it is a good place to send your friends if you want them to see your photos once, but not really follow your work over time. email is a big part of this.

there is also a much bigger push towards making prints on yahoo photos, and the place has many more ads than flickr does.

to simplify, yahoo photos taps into an older perspective and attitude toward how photos should be shared. it has a broader, more mainstream demographic. though it has advanced features like ajax based organizing tools and even an API, its focus is really on a different kind of user and sharing model than flickr, one which is a bit more old school {and actually more "successful" than flickr's model for the time being}.

flickr, on the other hand, is designed around sharing your photos over time, and often with complete strangers. there is much less of an emphasis on printing and almost no emphasis on email.

both are very successful in their respective categories.
jciv PRO 9 years ago
Flickr certainly is very different from Yahoo Photos, but they deal with the same thing so consolidating them makes sense. And from a company branding point of view, Yahoo Photos is a better name.
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striatic PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by striatic (admin) 9 years ago
they deal with the same thing so consolidating them makes sense.

i disagree. i agree that they both deal with photos, but in vitally different ways in terms of presentation, subscription and search.

it might make sense to have a common back end for the two products, so that photos can be moved back and forth .. but merging the two products in a way that vitally changes how people use either service would be a recipe for disaster, and i'm pretty sure that yahoo realizes this.
jciv PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by jciv (member) 9 years ago
I agree it would be a recipe for disaster for one or both products. But look at it as a high up business corporate decision maker who doesn't use either product. They are both ways to store and share photos so they do the same thing and thus should be the same product. Even to someone who uses one or both products if the goal is simplifying and consolidating similar products, these have to be a big target.

Hopefully that won't happen. But it sure seems likely.
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Stewart PRO 9 years ago
I betcha Flickr keeps going more or less on the same path (always evolving, sure, but more or less the same) for a long, long time to come.
Pacdog PRO 9 years ago
I have both and that being... Yahoo photos is to me a base camp, where as Flickr is much more with the ability to join in discussions and groups that have life. I enjoy the life aspect. How will that effect Flickr?
iansand PRO 9 years ago
As if Stewart would know anything. :-P
Rippie: Contra Censura! PRO 9 years ago
it is hardly unusual for otherwise previously successful corporations to make terrible decisions that appear to be a meld of best features for competing products with the corp. when in fact, what makes each unique from the other is jettisoned... creating a new, weak and unexciting product or service.

i hope that is not going to happen here, but i'd rather be pleasantly surprised, rather than bitterly disappointed... i'll expect bad news and cheer when it does not come to pass.
Lisanne! PRO 9 years ago
If both services provide a steady source of income for Yahoo, why disruptegthings through change. I am quite convince that too much has been made of Yahoo's recent slowed growth.

Lots of companies, through acquisition or plain market segragating, produce multiple products that perform the same function. Look at all of the various brands of detergents. Most are manufactered by the leading five companies in the industry.
GustavoG PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by GustavoG (member) 9 years ago
i'll expect bad news and cheer when it does not come to pass.

Two thoughts about this.

One: Some prophecies have this bad habit of fulfilling themselves....
Two: If you expect bad news without a set time, you might never end up cheering.
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striatic PRO 9 years ago
But look at it as a high up business corporate decision maker who doesn't use either product. They are both ways to store and share photos so they do the same thing and thus should be the same product.

i really, really, really don't think that anyone at yahoo thinks about the relationship between yahoo photos and flickr in such simplistic terms.

they may think in terms that are equally wrongheaded, but certainly not as simple.
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♥ shhexy corin ♥ PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by ♥ shhexy corin ♥ (admin) 9 years ago
i really, really, really don't think that anyone at yahoo thinks about the relationship between yahoo photos and flickr in such simplistic terms.

Tsk, striatic. They're a multi-chamillion dollar company, an American one at that, everyone who works for them must be a bumbling idiot!

Only bumbling idiots make massive piles of cash.
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striatic PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by striatic (admin) 9 years ago
Tsk, striatic. They're a multi-chamillion dollar company, an American one at that, everyone who works for them must be a bumbling idiot!

well, i'm also pretty sure that yahoo has its share of idiots, but i'd guess that they'd be the kind of idiots who make poor decisions through faulty over-analysis rather than faulty under-analysis.
Hughes Léglise-Bataille PRO 9 years ago
I wouldn't bet with Stewart ;-) This thread has a strong "déjà-vu" feeling, lol !
Rippie: Contra Censura! PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Rippie: Contra Censura! (member) 9 years ago
striatic - okay, you have a point, but when companies consolidate products, services, divisions, applications, distribution, it is generally done by consultants, often who have nothing to do with the task/goal/product/service at hand in the already existing version(s).

more than often brought in from outside, these so-called "experts" are viewed by insiders within affected division the way sales divisions look at "marketing" with disdain and even derision... as those who couldn't quite cut it in sales.

the two svcs are different. if each is carrying its weight financially, and i'd suspect that flickr probably is adequately profitable and that yahoo pics is a value-added feature that either captures or retains users to be exposed to ads and other products, perhaps DIFFERENTIATION makes more sense, for each to achieve different goals.

i think we are different users with different goals. but, hugo is stating what i feel... what happens when consolidation occurs is all doves and roses... in the beginning.

competition dwindles with consolidation, and so then does consumer choice, both in breadth and depth. prices rarely drop. services rarely include all the previous ones PLUS new improvements that actually are improvements or new.

rebranding is often how it's done: look at the us cable tv and cellular industries... neither are in the league of others around the world. the switch to digital technologies has been excrutiating and expensive. it benefits cellular in particular, yet rates have gone up.

looking at AT&T over the last few decades should be sufficient, from a consumer perspective, with subsequent re-aggregation and rebranding and nascent monopolies...

competition, even within a single corporate umbrella, keeps divisions on their toes, innovative and aggressive, creative and agile.

i don't anticipate that happening here. but, as i said, i'd love to be pleasantly surprised.
Yolise 9 years ago
One of the reasons that Flickr hired Stewart and Catrina, as far as I'm aware, is to get their particular input on these sorts of issues. They are the consultants, I would imagine. This makes me think that the wags in valleywag are simply wrong or misguided by some internal politics.
matt Posted 9 years ago. Edited by matt (member) 9 years ago
This makes me think that the wags in valleywag are simply wrong or misguided by some internal politics.

Well, they're internet gossip columnists, basically, so one might not be too far off in thinking they're just trying to generate buzz, hype, churn, links, juice, wobble, power, pollen, spin, bounce, viral, social, tarsal or whatever the current mots juste happen to be.
Yolise 9 years ago
tarsal? That's a new one on me.

Is it like a story having legs?
Kim Taylor Hull PRO 9 years ago
Stewart writes: "I betcha Flickr keeps going more or less on the same path (always evolving, sure, but more or less the same) for a long, long time to come."


I'll drink to that!
matt Posted 9 years ago. Edited by matt (member) 9 years ago
I guess it'd be a story having heels, which is like a story having legs, yeah, but lower down, and needing some attention from a pumice stone?
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♥ shhexy corin ♥ PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by ♥ shhexy corin ♥ (admin) 9 years ago
Have I wandered into a foot fetish group again?
gocarrt [deleted] 9 years ago
Last word of that post just makes it for me, shhexy...calls for a rarely typed (by this user) LOL...
baslow PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by baslow (member) 9 years ago
For the past two years I've been using flickr as my offsite photo storage facility, uploading virtually everything I snapped. My motto has been "I am not an artist" (see my profile) although I confess to being increasingly uncomfortable as I've seen how other people have used fickr. Providing that the mechanisms were provided, I'd be happy to see Yahoo! Photos become my warehouse, as it were, and to begin using flickr as my gallery. I'd transfer all of my 6,000+ photos to Yahoo! Photos and would selectively display the ones of which I was proudest (or which held the most personal signicance) on flickr. As others have pointed out, Yahoo! has two distinct milieus in flickr and Yahoo! Photos and I think they could make both of them profitable by taking advantage of their distinctions.
Rippie: Contra Censura! PRO 9 years ago
well said, baslow, and i hope that comes to pass. it would be the wise move. while no one company can be all things to all people, the strength of yahoophotos and flickr together is their differences, which should be amplified and touted. dual users like yourself will surely result.

corin: i thought all of flickr WAS a foot fetish site!
_mpd_ [deleted] 9 years ago
it would be the wise move.

That is extremely unwieldly and unusable, IMHO.

I'd transfer all of my 6,000+ photos to Yahoo! Photos and would selectively display the ones of which I was proudest

How about marking photos that you aren't proud of as "Friends and Family" and then give your family the password? That works really well and then you don't have to deal with multiple tools.
Lisanne! PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Lisanne! (member) 9 years ago
One interesting trend of recent years that is worth noting--everyone is a business analyst. Maybe because we finally have a means of expressing our opinions; perhaps it is because we are more tied in o a personal level with outcomes. Reminds me of the 1920s, when every shoeshine boy on Wall Street knew which stock was to be manipulated next by Mike Meehan and his pals, even before Mike knew it himself.

We always have to weigh the source of speculation.. Even reliable sources like the New York Times seem to engage in spurious logic at times. Unfortunately, they can have a serious impact on stock prices. Still, I'd trust their logic far more than that of journalistic hacks on te web.

I believe Stewart because I believe that he is competent enough to keep Flickr on its steady course. My instincts keep telling me that Yahoo has gained as much as they received because in buying Flickr they bought the perceptiveness of its creators. Their insight has to be of great value. Most importantly, they believe in Flickr, and no one at Yahoo would be foolish enough to intrude on such clarity of vision. Because that is the very thing which Yahoo is being criticized for lacking at this time. Consequently, the future of Yahoo Photos will be unrelated to that of Flickr.

I suppose the above merely shows that I am just as guilty as anyone of engaging in remote business analysis.
Lisanne! PRO 9 years ago
Stewart, I do have one question. By remaining the same, are you referring to the fact that you have no intention, now or in the future, of buying an "E"? Rumors keep persisting, you know.
ancawonka PRO 9 years ago
A good technical strategy for Yahoo! is to enable sharing of photos between Flickr and Yahoo! photos. Give us access to the best and most useful features of each.

However, Flickr and Yahoo! photos have different communities, which don't necessarily have the same needs and social rules. If Yahoo! wants to cater to both it will have to extend and encourage services catering to the specific demographics.

We are justifiably worried that Yahoo! will make some mistake and take away the community and services that we love. But is the survival of the community entirely at the whim of Yahoo?
Rippie: Contra Censura! PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Rippie: Contra Censura! (member) 9 years ago
and you have a lovely pair of rose colored glasses, too, lisanne. ;)

sure, there are pundits-a-plenty now, and some of them/us are actually IN business (i am), but i still find that large companies tend to outsource thinking, to their detriment, and tiny ones tend not to, to their detriment.

we'll see is all i'm saying... i'll keep breathing...


[edited to account for intermediary posts to the one i reacted]
StarrGazr PRO 9 years ago
Best line I've read all day!

betcha Flickr keeps going more or less on the same path (always evolving, sure, but more or less the same) for a long, long time to come.
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Stewart PRO 9 years ago
No "e"!

It's interesting to hear all the different perspectives on this (you're totally right lisanne001 - everyone's a pundit). Very different from the inside, but it's mostly stuff I can't talk about. However, I can say that I'm really, really happy about all the recent changes. Valleywag has a lot wrong (just factually wrong, but it shows up in their interpretaions) so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in it. All good! And in particular, all good for Flickr and it's future :)

Hugo*, re déjà-vu -- in relation to what? (What did you vu in the past?)
Lisanne! PRO 9 years ago
Rippie, I look at the long term and see a lot of positives. And yes, is people that matter the most in the fortunes of any company. Yahoo has people within its organization that can, and probably will galvanize the company towards a future of stronger growth. If my memory is correct, this isn't the first time that Yahoo has temporarily slowed in its growth.

Stewart, thank you so much for sharing what you are able to. I know that you would like to tell us more, and that you will when it is wise to do so.
DWinton PRO 9 years ago
uh, I'm sure this was just a typo, but I don't think Flickr "hired" Stewart and Caterina. I suppose you could say Yahoo did, in a way.
admin
striatic PRO 9 years ago
uh, I'm sure this was just a typo, but I don't think Flickr "hired" Stewart and Caterina. I suppose you could say Yahoo did, in a way.

yeah, i'm pretty sure that yolise meant "yahoo" but typed "flickr".
The Searcher PRO 9 years ago
man i'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of that inside, all-good, happy stuff Stewart can't talk about. All I get from this side, even outside of the pundits, just the raw rueters-like reporting (sans our cellphone pics), is a rather stormy shake-up rejiggering of Yahoo, and a lot of unsettled nay unhappy investors. And a lot of product to move around the chessboard to try to make them happy.

I just wish there wasn't so much not-so-smart Yahoo track record to look back on, when divining whether or not they'll make sound choices in their pruning and smooshing.
Yolise 9 years ago
yeah, i'm pretty sure that yolise meant "yahoo" but typed "flickr".

Yes, of course. Thanks Striatic. :-)
Paul L Dineen Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Paul L Dineen (member) 9 years ago
i really, really, really don't think that anyone at yahoo thinks about the relationship between yahoo photos and flickr in such simplistic terms.

they may think in terms that are equally wrongheaded, but certainly not as simple.


Never underestimate the power of high-level executives to oversimplify.
"I see two! I want there to be one! Make it so!" (Throws chair to dramatize the urgency.)

Or, if it's not their act of oversimplification, it could be that the higher up they are, the more the information has been summarized (and maybe distored), so they have nothing left to base an intelligent decision on.

Can you tell I've been around this block before?
admin
striatic PRO Posted 9 years ago. Edited by striatic (admin) 9 years ago
Can you tell I've been around this block before?

i suppose, i just think the culture at yahoo is a bit different.

not that they haven't made some awfully bad decisions in the past two years .. i can rattle off more than a few once i get my monday morning throwing arm warmed up .. just that these decisions come out of culture of complexity that isn't going to go away over night.

nor should it disappear entirely because it is capable of making good decisions, like acquiring flickr and del.icio.us for example.
admin
♥ shhexy corin ♥ PRO 9 years ago
... once i get my monday morning throwing arm warmed up ..

Wow, what timezone are you in, striatic?
admin
striatic PRO 9 years ago
Wow, what timezone are you in, striatic?

whichever one it is, i will blame any and all confusion on the metric conversion.
tuxcomputers 9 years ago
striatic wrote:
blame any and all confusion on the metric conversion.
Are you aware that they actually had a metric time system? It flopped.
Dodgsun 9 years ago
justa note: my yahoo page says the photos thingy is no longer available!!! hmmmm
but it comes down to....i paid for it..i want it! (FlickR that is)
[this] [account] [has] [been] [deleted] 9 years ago
Yackr.......Flihoo? Neither really work

perhaps Yickoo, Flachoo, Flackroo....

No, the names would be all wrong, therefore assimilation is not inevitable.
RubyMae PRO 9 years ago
from the searcher: (cause he hates it when I quote him) "man i'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of that inside, all-good, happy stuff Stewart can't talk about. All I get from this side, even outside of the pundits, just the raw rueters-like reporting (sans our cellphone pics), is a rather stormy shake-up rejiggering of Yahoo, and a lot of unsettled nay unhappy investors. And a lot of product to move around the chessboard to try to make them happy."

I have to say I agree. I don't even read blogs, but the bits I've heard on the news and read in the papers seem to point to a less than cheery future for Flickr.
admin
striatic PRO 9 years ago
Are you aware that they actually had a metric time system?

yes.

It flopped.

just you wait ..
styler* PRO 9 years ago
i'd just like to say
i have faith in flickr and the strength of the brand and concept Stewart and Caterina created.
we've seen rumor after rumor, and guess what flickr just keeps getting better, the only exception is the demise of flickr live.
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striatic PRO 9 years ago
i have faith in flickr and the strength of the brand and concept Stewart and Caterina created.

i don't have faith in it.

i expect them to continually 'prove it'.

so far they've done a very good job, and i think the relative lack of yahoo bashing in this thread compared to previous similar threads speaks to it.
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