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CLOSED Flickr blocked in the UAE - Is this true?

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Jan Tik says:

Flickr blocked in the UAE?

flickr.com/photos/fdaitne/20872300/in/pool-central/

EDIT: Subsequently Thurds@y has deleted this picture. For the sake of those who did not see it here is a snapshot:

Flickr Blocked in UAE
2:12AM, 22 June 2005 PDT (permalink)

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Special is a group administrator Special says:

I don't know, but the guy who posted that photo and says "we'll get it back" is the same guy that claimed (over in that no nudity thread in flickr help) that he reported flickr to the UAE ISP to get it blocked. Guess he had a change of heart.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Dave Ward Photography says:

Apparently so. And what makes it especially baffling and frustrating is that it seems like users in the UAE are blaming people who post nudity, rather than blaming their own government for oppressing them. (If you peek in on UAE discussions, it's a pretty consistent theme.)

Yeah, it's the fault of the rest of the world for not being sexually repressive enough or censorious enough. What should we do? Follow the rules of every repressive government around the world?

Things like this are bound to happen. But it's especially sad that UAE flickr users -- and some of them are pretty good friends of mine -- think it's the fault of everybody else around the world for not obeying their government's rules. :-(

I hope the UAE's gov't comes around and lightens the hell up. Sometimes cultural differences are wonderful and worth celebrating, but now and then there's a cultural difference that just plain sucks.

I posted this comment on that photo. I won't be surprised if it's deleted, but I'll repost it here anyway:
----------
It's a real shame. What makes it especially bad is that perfectly good people are blaming the rest of the world for not obeying the repressive and oppressive rules of the UAE government. It's not the fault of the rest of the world obeying the UAE government; it's the fault of the UAE government for oppressing the wonderful people who live there, and for treating them like little babies who need to be protected from "terrible" things like nudity. Please don't blame the rest of the world; blame the oppressors -- the people who think you aren't grown-up enough to handle freedom and cultural differences.

I hope your government is more enlightened soon, and you'll be back. This is really, really sad. I have a lot of friends in the UAE, and this hurts. I'll miss them all. I hope enlightenment and freedom come sooner rather than later for you.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Jan Tik says:

Well, Mr. Thursd@y did have a personal thread calling for Flickr to be banned and for people from the UAE to leave Flickr under this picture:

Tursd@y's Picture

Last I have seen, it had over 300 posts (I think). Then it was made private and finally it seems to have been deleted.

This brings up an interesting question. Nothing in the TOU says that one cannot use Flickr to drum up support for a specific cause. But in this case the guy used Flickr to create support for something that would hurt Flickr. Maybe the TOU should be updated to deal with this?

In case it gets deleted, here is my comment under the latest image as well:
-------------------------

Like so many others here I have made good friends amongst the people from the UAE. Thursd@y, you have started this and I have pleaded with you for common sense, but you have persisted. Now it seems as if you want Flickr unblocked? I do not understand.

I want to say again, that we live in a world where there are many people with many different viewpoints. Even in the West we have people who complain about nudity, but they cannot escape from it. And as you know, although the majority of Muslims are against nudity, not all think alike on this subject. But there are ways to deal with issues such as these, and Flickr has already committed to institute controls for people to ignore stuff they do not want to see.

Living in the real world, from time to time we all have to deal with stuff we do not like. But by trying to cut oneself off totally from anything potentially offensive solves nothing. Instead it creates more problems by separating people artificially. In the end it is defeatist, and nothing more than a modern form of apartheid.

It is a sad day indeed.
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

Whether this is true or not, I think it would be appropriate for Thursd@y leave Flickr for good. His aggressive whinging has (or may have) spoiled the enjoyment of many good photographers from the UAE.

Whether he succeeded or not remains to be seen (at least some UAE users seem not to be affected) - but his intent is clear.

I can see no reason why he would want to remain a member of a website he has campaigned to ban. He has shown contempt for freedom of choice and total disregard for the wishes and rights of others.

Ironically, I believe he's currently in Brighton in the UK, so the ban won't affect him. Do the honourable thing, Thursd@y. Delete your account.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Hourman says:

This is truly sad. While I didn't always u^D3r$+And them, there were some really talented contributors and it was an interesting view into a different but similar world.
107 months ago (permalink)

bastillekid [deleted] says:

i am very happy about their ISP's decision...
107 months ago (permalink)

bastillekid [deleted] says:

I got in a dogfight with Thursd@y, it was fun and his rethoric is full of holes, i loved it!
107 months ago (permalink)

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txkimmers says:

teotwawki wrote: Ironically, I believe he's currently in Brighton in the UK, so the ban won't affect him.

Yay for the internet! It enables the global reach of all kinds of jackasses!

I don't even know what to say, I am so pissed off.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Nico.... says:

We'd better be careful. He'll probably get it banned here in the UK on the basis that he was able to see it while he was here.

What's more I hope he doesn't go down to the beach today if he's offended by nudity...
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

Ah...the joys of religion :)
107 months ago (permalink)

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Kallese is a group administrator Kallese says:

First off, from the eariler posts this Thursd@y character sounds like a dick.

But secondly, if flickr wanted to avoid being filtered, they could take steps to do so.

I think comments like "I hope your government is more enlightened soon" are just plain ignorant. There is pornography on flickr, and a choice to filter such content is, in my opinion, not unreasonable. Even people in the *gasp* US and other 'enlightened' countries employ the use of internet filtering. Otherwise there would not be a market for filtered internet service.

The TOS of flickr indicate that you must be 13 years old to use flickr. Would you be OUTRAGED if a parent blocked their 13 year old child from viewing flickr after finding streams and streams of photos filled with pornography?
107 months ago (permalink)

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Mansour says:

I definately sign into Flickr mainly to admire the beautiful pictures and stories of people from around the world, especially from Emirate. While it's a shame that this happened, the only thing that made me disheartened wasn't Thursday, as I have no idea of his intentions, and maybe he really does regret being one of the people who requested the UAE ban.

It was far more disheartening hearing people call the Emirate government oppressive and stuck in old ways. No one in the west is any more enlightened, and the US government surely isn't more enlightened compared to the Emirate government. Some peoples' morals are different, and wanting to ban pornography, even though Flickr doesn't fall anywhere near that category, isn't oppressive; I think it may be commendable.
107 months ago (permalink)

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LeRamz says:

It's hilarious, if you read what he types in english and what he types in arabic...

In English he's proclaiming his love for Flickr, and his opposition to this ban, in Arabic, he's calling flickr immoral, saying it was in some senses justified to ban it because he found some photos were distasteful or disrespectful...

Bottom-line is, everyone has different takes on what's ok and what's not, we can't have specific rules for everyone to follow...
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

Mansour-

Yes isnt it funny the people and governements that call themselves "enlightened" :) Good comment.

I would beg to say that banning a web resource is just like pulling books from a libary and burning them. There is lots of information and activities in this world....and trying to ban/block everything that some MAY find offensive is just plan foolish.
107 months ago (permalink)

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bdmckeown says:

It just shows that hypocrisy is prevalent in every corner of the world.
107 months ago (permalink)

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pt's pics says:

I am chatting with a Flickr buddy from the UAE now and it is true. He was just pointed out the hypocracy is that there are prostitutes on every street corner for the tourists. Yet they ban flickr for some nude pics. So sad.
107 months ago (permalink)

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sume says:

To be fair, others have raised the nudity issue on flickr. I don't know how feasible it is and different people even here in "the West" have different opinions of what "nudity" and "tasteful nudity" are. But some of the people who ask are parents who don't want to have to shoo the kids out of the room before they use flickr. Some just don't like to have nude photos surprise them when they're going through a photopool or checking out a potential contact. I wouldn't mind some kind of rating system myself, though I know all the issues that make that difficult.

Flickr serves and international community, however and like television you always have the option of turning it off. Anyway, there's a workaround. I would miss some of the great people I've met who are from the UAE and the window they give us into their culture.
107 months ago (permalink)

squeak_ [deleted] says:

Just went to metafilter and saw this post. Seems Thursd@y isn't the only one hard at work ...
107 months ago (permalink)

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txkimmers says:

While it's a shame that this happened, the only thing that made me disheartened wasn't Thursday, as I have no idea of his intentions, and maybe he really does regret being one of the people who requested the UAE ban.

Argh Mansour, your comments (all of them, not just the one I quoted) have pulled me out of my self-righteous irritation, although I am only half-willing to exit. It just feels so good to reduce the situation to the word "jackass".

Oh well. I am going to be flipping in and out of this all day, I can tell.
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

Thursd@y wasn't alone but he was definitely the head cheerleader for the ban, at least on Flickr itself.

it was far more disheartening hearing people call the Emirate government oppressive and stuck in old ways.

In a free society, anyone can criticise the government of whichever country, however they see fit. I'm not really interested in vague comparisons of whose methods of governance are more advanced, but the question of repression is clear cut.

Various laws introduced in the US in the last few years have implemented restrictions many of us find distasteful or even dangerous. But anyone can still publicly call the head of state a fascist criminal - without consequence.

My gift of a pro account to the first UAE national who publicly denounces a prominent member of the Emirati government as a fascist criminal, in the UAE - and posts proof of it in their photostream.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Mansour says:

Glad I could make you argh Kim ;)
107 months ago (permalink)

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sume says:

Perhaps Thursd@y has had a change of heart. I can't say what his intentions were or are. Calling for a ban on flickr is silly and going a bit overboard, IMHO. I include myself when I say the issue of nudity was raised. Somewhere on some thread I added my voice those who wished for some kind of rating system, but not on an all out ban.

Like I said flickr serves an international community and you can't expect to impose your religious, cultural values on everyone nor can we expect to impose ours on anyone else. Respect has to go both ways.
107 months ago (permalink)

Pope Pedro [deleted] says:

Personally I don't like broccoli, don't like the taste, hate the smell and can't stand the sight of it. So what do I do?

I don't buy broccoli.

What's going on in the UAE? Are there Yahoo employees stapling people's eyelids open, super-gluing their noses to computer monitors and forcing them to accept free pro-accounts and unlimited broadband access in an attempt to protect their new investment in Flickr?

I don't think so.

Thursd@y ought to wake up - it's Wednesday.
107 months ago (permalink)

rzklkng [deleted] says:

Woohoo! Squeak, that's my post. On a related (MeFi) topic, we aren't much better...at least we're doing it for the kids.
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

rzklkng, there's a separate thread on 2257 in FlickrHelp, not that it's inappropriate here, just thought you might be interested.

But please tell me that you're not trying to compare a law to require pornographers to ensure that their 'models' aren't children with the UAE's blanket censorship of Flickr?
107 months ago (permalink)

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7-how-7 says:

Unbelievable - i lived in the emirates a long time ago and was just at a wedding this last week and talking about how amazed i was to see all the emiratis on flickr and now etisalat has pulled the plug...what a damn shame...
107 months ago (permalink)

rzklkng [deleted] says:

teotwawki, yes, I am, because the 2257 legislation will not be effective, and the "for the kids" stuff is the social radical way of justifying their attempt to demonize porn. Besides, it's not going to do jack about child porn. Them dirtbags are outside of the law anyway, I doubt they "card".
107 months ago (permalink)

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~Aphrodite says:

Hey everyone... I am from the UAE (but studying/living in London now) and was devastated that Flickr was blocked there as many of my friends are members and have great talent... Thursdays complaints hurt everyone there because he made Flickr seem like a porn site, and now he says "hope we get it back"..

Thursday just went overboard.. I consider myself quite religious, yet if I find a picture offensive.. i don't look at it... Thursday just decided to impose his own hypocritical views on everyone else. He lives in the UK, so this ban does not affect him.

What he did is not a reflection of Islam or of the people of the UAE. If it were, then he wouldn't be harrassing half the Arab girls on Flickr (I had to block him from commenting on my pictures because of his psychotic perversions), and this complaint would have come from more people than him.

Hopefully, things will change and the UAE will get Flickr back and see it for what it really is. The only thing that should be banned is Thursday- it's people like him who give Arabs and Islam a bad name.
107 months ago (permalink)

Kristina J. [deleted] says:

Agree with Aphrodite above. In my experience UAE is one of the more progressive and enlightened countries in the Arabic world.
As for Thursday, he's just a small minded hypocrite that clearly doesn't know how to deal with his own issues.
Some of my pictures are slightly risque...no blatant nudity and done in an artistic way, and whaddyaknow, Thursday added me as his FRIEND (not even a contact), yet on the other side he's preaching something diametrically opposite.
What a shallow character that guy has.
107 months ago (permalink)

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jasonedward says:

Kiki J - I LOVE your work and its artistic "risque-ness". You have an amazing eye for photography and that's why I added you as a contact, not a friend.

Perhaps Thursd@y should look into Freud or someone, so he can see that he's so obsessed with nudity that he must preach against it so that he'll fool himself into thinking that no one will realize just how much he loves to look at it. Grrrrrr...

People like him frustrate me. LOL
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

I'm sorry for the photographers from the UAE like ~Aphrodite who may be affected by this ban - there are many others that I'm aware of personally and many more that I have yet to come across.

The government in the UAE isn't the central point (at least not to me), but the fact that a small group of arrogant and misguided hypocrites assumed it as their right to stifle many talented photographers - whether that was the intent or not, that's the result.

And what else has been achieved by that campaign? Nothing. The photos that they deemed unsuitable for the eyes of UAE Flickrites are still there.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

its all about making trouble and control. As Aphrodite says...the guy is in the UK so im sure he is laughing his ass off right now.

Much thanks to Aphrodite for the comment.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

teotwawki -

It seems to me that all such movements are started by a small yet dedicated group of hypocrites. Its not how many there are....but how loud they can be and who will lsiten.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Mr Jaded says:

Hello

I haven't been following these events as closely as I should have, but...

I know Thursd@y only from his attempt to make me a "friend" in his bizarre quest to accumulate 5,000 contacts in a month. Some of you may remember a half arsed topic I posted in this group called something like "Contactophiles - Why Do They Do It?" - well that was him.

Like many boys I know from the UAE who are "studying" here in the UK I'm sure that Thursd@y is having a grrrrreat time. When young stupid Brits want to misbehave (and get away from mummy) they go to Ibiza and it seems that a comparative location for young wealthy Arabic men is London. It doesn't really matter to Thursd@y that they've shut down Flickr in the UAE after all he's here with me in the UK - no problems logging on to Flickr here...

What do you call someone who tells you to do as he says and not as he does? Yes, that's right, you call them a hypocrite. And in Thursd@y's case adding the word fascist wouldn't be too unfair.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Dave Ward Photography says:

Thank you, ~Aphrodite, for that beautiful post. I couldn't agree more.

And yes, the same thing happens here in the U.S., although generally in different ways. It's strange that a few people misinterpreted my (absolutely correct) criticism of the repressive government of the U.A.E. as somehow suggesting that the current government and direction of the U.S.A. is better. I didn't say that. In many ways, our current government is no more enlightened.
107 months ago (permalink)

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bsdfm says:

No one has mentioned what the actual legal decency standards are in the UAE. Seems like Flickr probably violates their laws if only because Flickr doesn't succeed at immediately eliminating porn. If Flickr doesn't actually violate their standards, then I'm sure the whole thing will get sorted quickly. If Flickr does violate their standards, then it should be banned there. That's their business.

Maybe Flickr could make themselves more compatible with UAE law by making every "May Offend" picture disappear for UAE viewers, but that would obviously be open to abuse. Seems like the only easy answer would be segregation a la flickr.ae or something, which would also suck.

I'm sure most people are done reading y'all and myself pontificate on the subject. Does anyone know if the staff has weighed in on the issue?
107 months ago (permalink)

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!efatima says:

I thank Aphrodite for the post. I could not have said it better. Its sad sad sad. *sigh* For some of us, flickr is like a lifeline. :'(
107 months ago (permalink)

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Special is a group administrator Special says:

Mr Jaded said: "I know Thursd@y only from his attempt to make me a "friend" in his bizarre quest to accumulate 5,000 contacts in a month."

He made me a contact last week. I remembered the harsh stance he supposedly had on nudity then and took that to mean he didn't bother to look at my stream fully. I assumed that he was just contact whoring. I have a few mild nudes in my stream, and from what I gathered from some of his earlier postings he is against nudity in any form.

You would think that someone who is so against nudity that he'd help to get a website banned from a country would go over someone's stream with a fine tooth comb before adding them as a 'friend' wouldn't you?
107 months ago (permalink)

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/\/o/\/aaaღ says:

Latempest I couldn’t have said it better, so thankx for speaking my mind,, and other's as well
I think that an obnoxious individual such as "Thursd@y" is a hypocrite in the sense that he started the ridiculous attempt of threatening us for blocking flickr,, and literary complaining to Etisalat about the nudity on flickr ( he says its because he doesn’t want the girls and the children seeing such scenes,, I think its mostly idiots and jerks like him that will go and find pieces of art as being porn to him).
If he isn’t happy with the unique pieces of art, then he might as will give him self a kick in the ass, and find his place elsewhere. No one has tied his feet on flickr; begging him to remain.
Initially he flirts with hundreds of girls on flickr, back bites them, then pretends to be the innocent person in the game, he allures the girls from flickr , deceives them to add him as their contact and write him testimonials and in returns he buys for them a pro account,,,, HOW CHEAP IS THAT ?!
107 months ago (permalink)

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jon madison says:

Personally I don't like broccoli, don't like the taste, hate the smell and can't stand the sight of it. So what do I do?

I don't buy broccoli.


i'd just like to point out a horrible analogy. ;-)
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

the dude sounds like a pimp after reading NoNaaaaaa's post.
107 months ago (permalink)

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bsdfm says:

Found an edumacating website on UAE's content blocking:

www.opennetinitiative.net/studies/uae/

Apparently they block a bunch of sites with tamer content than Flickr. According to above website (and the discussion on Flickr), it sounds like most internet subscribers in the UAE believe that the censorship is beneficial.

Fascinating situation. I feel very badly for the UAEians that do not appreciate their nation's censorship.
107 months ago (permalink)

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annafdd says:

Well, I happen to think that porn is a good pleasant and totally harmless thing and I would hate to see it demonized.

Being a realist, I would not post full frontal nudity on Flickr, but I think it's a damn shame I can't. The human body is beautiful, sex is beautiful and joyful and one of the best thing humans can get up to, including all the happy playful things one can introduce in the process, which I believe are called "deviant behaviour", and I would damn well teach my children so the first opportunity I'd get: and I do resent that so many people think they can just assume that I'd recoil in horror and shock from any depiction of sexual activity or that exposing kids to the existence of sex is inherently a bad thing.

Actually, I think standing up for the positive and liberating power of sex, free, consensual and unrestrained, is the most important political stance that's open to us right now.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

annafdd-

I must say that I like your way of thinking :) Welcome to the thread!
107 months ago (permalink)

Quiplash [deleted] says:

I am assuming that there are ways around this? IP address spoofing, proxy servers, etc.??

I am very happy to see !efatima post on this thread, and I do hope that this means we will continue to see her beautiful photos :-)

(*Bette-Davis-bitchslaps Thursday*)
107 months ago (permalink)

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/\/o/\/aaaღ says:

actualy, it has nothing to do with the uaeian's wanting to block anythingg

it just has to do with one abnoxious and idiotic flickr member by the nick "Thursd@y" who thinks he owns flickr and can impliment what ever he decidess and as a result of his idiocity and his whinning and complaint, uae has blocked flickr

either way, the flickr member from uae are still accessing flickr through proxies, and i am guess flickr has helpedd by creating a new link

www4.flickr.com << they dont need a proxy or anything else

cheers
107 months ago (permalink)

MD..>> [deleted] says:

i am in the UAE and i'm absolutely pissed off at the bitch Thursd@y for this screwed up two-faced behaviour. he got flickr blocked, claiming it was porn but not realizing that flickr is a PHOTOGRAPHY site and that includes NUDE ART! and a bare back is not PORN.

his block-flickr campaign was ridiculous and surely, what vervester said is right. the internet (or censorship) rules are not consistent with the way the country's moving. i'm a journalist and i'm going to take this BLOODY seriously with the media here.

what will that asshole get by not allowing us to post pics and just have fun? oh, i mean...innocent fun. this is ridiculous and it's better he goes back and lives in his fucking tent coz even going to UK didnt do any good to expand his narrow-ass mentality.

just had to vent..
107 months ago (permalink)

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Jan Tik says:

To be fair Tursd@y has a right to his opinions. He is also not wrong to actively campaign for his point of view. That is the democratic view and the very basis of tolerance.

Where he and Etisalat went wrong were to try and enforce their point of view - regardless of the many citizens of the UAE who think otherwise. In effect, they used their democratic right to oppress the rights of others who might disagree.

Now we have a disaster.

But given the voracious opposition he has encountered by many of his own people, hopefully this will be the beginning of a period of intense soul searching in the UAE, and the beginning of a debate that will lead to a more equitable system.

What they do not yet realize is that they have created a huge blot on the name of the UAE (in the rest of the world). I think they have done their country more harm than they realize. Whereas the UAE previously have been considered one of the more enlightened countries in the Arab world, now this is bound to change due to the very visibility of Flickr. I think the full ramifications of this action are still to come.

In the meantime, I feel immensely sorry for the fair-minded people of the UAE. But just to let you know, there are many in the West who share your frustration and who feel for you. We cannot do much, but we can take this issue to the limelight by supporting your plight publicly. Have hope. Eventually reason will triumph!


(I have also posted this here).
107 months ago (permalink)

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violet~ says:

[b] what makes it especially baffling and frustrating is that it seems like users in the UAE are blaming people who post nudity, rather than blaming their own government for oppressing them. [/b]

Not exactly accurate..I'm from the UAE..And I was shocked when I typed in www.flickr.com today on my browser and found the ugly Bluish-red pag saying that the site was blocked..

The thing is..Etisalat (the service provider) caters to more than 4 million citizens..Most of which are members of a strict religious and conservative society..

When a lot of these people start complaining..Etisalat has to take action in order to cater to the wants of their customers..

Sites like DeviantArt dont get blocked even though they contain artistic nudity because no one has complained yet..And they dont feel that there is a reason to block it I guess unless someone starts complaining (which is the case with Flickr) ..

They are pretty cooperative though..So I think once they see what the negative effect on banning has..They will unblock it..

We are all baffled by Thursd@y, and more than just angry at him (i bet there isnt a UAE internet user who hasnt heard his name..people who dont even use flickr have come up to me online and asked "whats all this talk about this thursday person?" ) ..And we hope you dont see him as an example of typical UAE citizens..

For now we'll all be entering flickr through proxies/firefox/ or just plain www4.flickr.com ..

But again that isn't the issue..Access it we can..but the issue is that flickr was unfairly blocked..And we won't stop until we unblock it.. ^_^
107 months ago (permalink)

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flutential says:

I don't mind a bare back, front or nude, not being a prude, but I draw the line at a contact of mine, showing the full sexual act [and pretty ugly it was too] macro, he just had to go. I didn't tell on a whim I just deleted him.
I really don't like porn, love making love.
107 months ago (permalink)

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violet~ says:

{ What they do not yet realize is that they have created a huge blot on the name of the UAE (in the rest of the world). I think they have done their country more harm than they realize. Whereas the UAE previously have been considered one of the more enlightened countries in the Arab world, now this is bound to change due to the very visibility of Flickr. I think the full ramifications of this action are still to come. }

It is sad how we will be judged based on what a few individuals have afflicted upon us..
107 months ago (permalink)

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aileron says:

well i certainly hope the parties involved won't get mozilla banned, too.

"What they do not yet realize is that they have created a huge blot on the name of the UAE (in the rest of the world). I think they have done their country more harm than they realize. Whereas the UAE previously have been considered one of the more enlightened countries in the Arab world, now this is bound to change due to the very visibility of Flickr. I think the full ramifications of this action are still to come."
for all its worth, i've visited the UAE several times before and found it to be very progressive, open, and tolerant of other cultures. i hope this incident won't sully the UAE in anybody's eyes. just single out the person responsible.
107 months ago (permalink)

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txkimmers says:

What they do not yet realize is that they have created a huge blot on the name of the UAE (in the rest of the world). I think they have done their country more harm than they realize. Whereas the UAE previously have been considered one of the more enlightened countries in the Arab world, now this is bound to change due to the very visibility of Flickr. I think the full ramifications of this action are still to come.

Jeez, I don't know about that so much. But maybe I am more inclined to be mad at the jackass.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Jan Tik says:

Well, maybe I am wrong, but the discussion might have already started. See:

blog.arvind-satya.com/archives/2005/06/flickr-blocked/
www.metafilter.com/mefi/42962
nicomorgan.com/2005/06/22/flickr-banned-in-uae/
johl.rechenknecht.net/archives/2005/06/bilder_klicken.html

It will be interesting to see how much debate this generates.
107 months ago (permalink)

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/\/o/\/aaaღ says:

www.flickr.com/photos/masarat/20996672/
107 months ago (permalink)

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vasta says:

The UAE I know (and I only know Dubai) is a brilliant, progressive, and fun place to hang out. Of course, I know nothing about their internet policy.

Thanks Ben for the link to the article on internet filtering in the UAE. I, for one, am going to miss all the lovely people from UAE on my contact list. Let's hope the workarounds are still working.
107 months ago (permalink)

Quiplash [deleted] says:

Here's what the locked out message looks like... sorry I cannot translate :-)
107 months ago (permalink)

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Cybornut says:

Hmm, speaking of which, in places like China, internet is actually pretty filtered too. I could reach Flickr when I head to China once in a while, but I am worried that with the move (you do know that Yahoo is IP filtered in China right?) it might not be (what with an American IP and all). Especially since we are starting to become an (gasp) efficient news gathering organization like any blog.

Which bring me to the point, I do think Flickr needs to be localized and the filter tags refined. The whole "May Offend" tag is simply too easy to circumvent and not intuitive enough to actually be used a lot.

I do think a lot of UAE'ers want to join the fun on the Flickr, it's not the site that's the problem, it's SOME of the content. I believe the site needs to accomodate for smuts and pornography and better tag these if it was to reach these countries.
107 months ago (permalink)

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eqqman says:

It's a sad, sad day. The only thing worse than the UAE's having this site taken from them, is that the rest of us have had the UAE'ers taken from us. Some of the most magical and colorful pictures I've seen on Flickr come from them. Perhaps if the Emirates saw this from the point of view that they're keeping their own culture from being shared with the world, they would be more likely to come up with a better solution than all-out banning.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Dave Ward Photography says:

Also reported here on LinkFilter.

But I must confess--I'm the one who posted it there. ;-)
107 months ago (permalink)

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wacky doodler says:

ahhhh thursday, dude who sends me multiple invites to groups i did not want to join even after repeatedly informing him so. i guess it wasnt the nude photos he was after? but then again i dont have expensive cars either... hmm tis a mystery.
107 months ago (permalink)

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txkimmers says:

Cybornut, you can jump into the May Offend and Tags for Porn discussion here. Set aside about two hours to read the thread!
107 months ago (permalink)

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flutential says:

Hey as I said before I'm not into Porn but I'm really sad to have a friend barred by her country, she does have a naughty little set though.... well worth a look until we meet again
107 months ago (permalink)

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QTR says:

I'm from a neighboring country to UAE, and i know Thursd@y for being stuck into my list for a awhile, the only thing i know is that he's a sick minded person, who wants to have all the attention, i dont know why he started his campaign , my only suggestion for flickr admins is to kick out the Thursd@y,he didnt only cause an emotional prob, he with his hypocricy caused us to be banned from our friends there in UAE, and the most important thing is that he caused Flickr to lose thousands of useres with pro accounts, which means paying customers, so the ball is in the admins fields .
107 months ago (permalink)

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emirates says:


it seems like users in the UAE are blaming people who post nudity, rather than blaming their own government for oppressing them. (If you peek in on UAE discussions, it's a pretty consistent theme.)


Smaragd
do you think that funny

I'm wondered that till this day There is a people believe that The preservation of the peaceful nature to the humanity is a persecution ,..The persecution is the exploitation of the bodies of women ,The persecution is the non control of the human desires ,The persecution is launching the rein to all ,to do any thing occurs to the mind ,Without regard to the effects of that work...

For your knowledge there was thousands of messages came to the Internet company from parents and mothers ,ask to block site
In the United Arab Emirates we are not persecuted but we forced to respect each other ,to avoid the mistakes that may any human pass by...
....
so I hope to not talk about a thing you do not know or your mind does not assimilate it...
And at all time the stripping is not a measure of the nations development

I hope to show some respect when you talk about my country

it is a bad thing to speaking about a non present person "thursday"...so plz stop that



ــــــــــــ



We respect your desires and your ideas ..And we requested only the ''adult warning'' before the naked pictures
Like what is following in Yahoo groups
which work since it start in uae
but flickr staff refused This request from about two week's
after that i know these site will be blocked soon
www.flickr.com/photos/arab/18170510/
Unfortunately
This matter happened and opening the block will not happen soon
until flickr.com carries steps , appears cooperation

am sure flickr.com will not do that
and our internet company w'll not take care about that to
and no losing in that , except the uae's members
:(
tnx for all members who show good feeling about what happen





107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

Sounds good to me. Enjoy not having Flickr :)
107 months ago (permalink)

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emirates says:

HuH
lol
and Enjoy having flickr
is that a big thing ~_~
i reply coz words of Smaragd
not coz block and not block
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

".....The persecution is the exploitation of the bodies of women ,The persecution is the non control of the human desires ,The persecution is launching the rein to all ,to do any thing occurs to the mind ,Without regard to the effects of that work..."

Im wondering if there were no nude, semi-nude, "nude art", what ever you call it containing women on this site and only men if it would then be ok?

Your comment about the control of human desire is interesting....thats what the ture root of this is about right....CONTROL. Control of what people think, feel, DESIRE,....control of a population.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

Be it we are all controled by something or someone in some way ;)
107 months ago (permalink)

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xsquared says:

@emerites - Flickr staff has indicated that a solution is in the works to allow you to filter out the photos you objectionable: www.flickr.com/forums/help/7814/page2/#reply38512
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

emirates,
do you think that funny
There's nothing funny about it - it's very pertinent and gets to the heart of the problem. You and your allies wanted your own way, and when you didn't get your own way, you invoked governmental repression. I don't see the funny side.

the persecution is the exploitation of the bodies of women
Please don't pretend that you're campaigning for womens rights when the
effect of this ban is to deny the right to self expression - indiscriminately. Or are you arguing that nudity is fine provided it is, say, a female self portrait? I've seen the whole hackneyed 'protecting women from themselves' argument used to justify all sorts of horrific abuses.

it is a bad thing to speaking about a non present person thursday
But he's still here. He posted not long ago on another thread in FlickrHelp.

until flickr.com carries steps , appears cooperation
The ironic thing is that many UAE users are circumventing the ban with proxies. I can imagine you turning puce with rage at the thought. But then, how did you...?

They're making a mockery of your repression. So take your threats elsewhere.

[from your second post]
Enjoy having flickr is that a big thing ~_~
It clearly isn't to you. Which leaves the question - why are you here?

... also, I notice nobody has yet taken me up on my offer. There must be someone from the UAE willing to give it a go!
107 months ago (permalink)

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Jasonaut says:

"forced to respect each other, to avoid the mistakes that may any human pass by"
the government makes these decisions for you?
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

@ Emirates-

So what may I ask are you doing here if your government has put its "evil-doer" stamp on Flickr? Are you not afraid of being infected with our sins?
107 months ago (permalink)

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heather says:

"And we requested only the ''adult warning'' before the naked pictures Like what is following in Yahoo groups which work since it start in uae but flickr staff refused "

Speaking as staff, that's not true. We responded in the against nudity thread that we will be offering some sort of filtering or adult wall.

www.flickr.com/forums/help/7814/page2/#reply38512

Unfortunately, this isn't something that we can develop and implement overnight and won't be able to offer any new features until the data migration is complete.

We here at Flickr want everyone to be able to have the experience at Flickr that they want and we have.
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

I don't think that the facts of what the Flickr staff have or haven't agreed to do is important to people like 'emirates', sadly. They didn't get what they wanted, when they wanted it. The gap between capitulation and compromise is what that extreme UAE minority find distasteful.

Initially, I blamed the language barrier, but it has since become apparent that what this minority are posting in Arabic is even more extreme than what they're posting in English.

I can't believe that users like emirates and Thursd@y didn't know about the plans for the 18+ wall/filtering when they demanded the Etisalat ban - it was posted in the against nudity thread, as heather mentioned, and referenced repeatedly elsewhere.
107 months ago (permalink)

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FLC says:

Hmmm, Heather talks of a new review system where all photographs uploaded to Flickr will be reviewed, which, as someone in that thread pointed out, opens a big loophole for supposedly private photographs. And I honestly wonder how many thousands of images are uploaded daily (or even hourly), how can Flickr possibly review them all without causing a huge backlog? What is deemed appropriate images? What kind of censorship will take place?

If it does end up like that, then prepare for the downfall of Flickr...
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

I will leave Flickr if things go the way FLC states above. Bending to the demands of 7th centry minds is pretty out there to me.

I have met many people in the UAE on this site who have wonderful work and have been VERY friendly...and im sorry for them.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Dave Ward Photography says:

Emirates and people like him are terribly afraid of the power women have over men through the strength of their sexuality. Powerful, sexual women frighten weak men. And that is why they oppress women by hiding their bodies -- they fear letting women have any kind of power over men.

Tell me again, who is oppressing women: the people who permit women to display their power, sexuality, and humanity, or the people who force women to hide themselves?
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

Why should Flickr be charged with screening all content to make sure that no one is offended. So does that mean that if im offended by your screen name you should change it? What if im offended by the color of the sky? Hell my Iraq images may offend someone....or maybe my action shots....if you cant think for yourself and move along then....never mind......
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

a new review system... prepare for the downfall of Flickr
The staff who built Flickr and made it into what it is today are the
best people to implement systems for dealing with new realities and
solving new problems.

Accordingly, whichever side of the argument you're drawn towards here, I'd hope that anyone who values Flickr will see that no-one has the right to demand features (request, yes; demand, no).

Communities thrive on co-operation, not conflict; that's why I dislike seeing an extreme minority trying to enforce indiscriminate and unfair rules, and then lying when they're confronted about it.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Jan Tik says:

As expected, Mr. Yesterd@y has deleted the photo (and the discussion) at the top of this thread.

Now he is sorry? I wonder... Almost single-handedly, and definitely single-mindedly, he has put several thousand people out of reach of their favorite site.

As for me, I did not know very much about the UAE before I joined Flickr, but I was pleasantly surprised to be able to learn about their beautiful country and the kind people living there.

Now because of the complaints of a few Etisalat has just shot their country's reputation in the head. So much for a progressive Arab state. I feel sorry for the people living there.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

Someone was really interested in the flow of folks through here.

www.flickr.com/photos/arab/16102005/

Oooo my body is bad...BAD...BAD!!! I was looking at Emirates comments and some others on this thread. Its so crazy one one believes just on the word of another.
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

sorry...forgot the link:

www.flickr.com/photos/arab/18170510/
107 months ago (permalink)

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/\/o/\/aaaღ says:

why dont you guys quit ur childish games of blaming the government,,, and start blaming the ignorant people who complained about flickr to the internet provider in the country?

funny how you are trying to hard to get involved in the situation and talk about it as if you know exactly what's going on, when you know absolutly nothing about it
107 months ago (permalink)

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Dave Ward Photography says:

Funny how any time people can't debate rationally because the facts are not on their side, they blindly make the same silly accusation: "You don't know what you're talking about!" :-D LOL!
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

:)
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

Someone needs to hammer home the point that in a free society, there's no need to worship a government like a god. I tried to make it myself, but I was clearly only sledgehammer subtle, and didn't get through.

Free pro account for any UAE Flickr user!
[terms and conditions apply]
107 months ago (permalink)

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Jan Tik says:

That is where you are wrong, /\/o/\/aaaaaa. I have followed the conversation closely since it has started. And I come from a country (South Africa) where I have seen the kind of devastation that can be used by misguided government interference – no matter how nice they try to make it sound.

Once you start replacing personal choice and responsibility with government or quasi-government censorship then you will have all sorts of unexpected fallout. And usually there are some people who get hurt.

I am not alone in thinking this. See
www.hrinfo.net/en/reports/net2004/uae.shtml
www.gulf-news.com/Articles/specialreportsNF.asp?ArticleID...
www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2000/nea/index.cfm?docid=824
www.ojr.org/ojr/technology/1017967030.php
etisalat.charges.too.much.net/dubaichat/jailbird.txt
www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=10769
107 months ago (permalink)

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AlmaZ says:

teotwawki...why are u so pissed off! I suggest you get over the Ramadan incident;)
107 months ago (permalink)

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AlmaZ says:

Jan Tik...I suggest you do something more productive with your time, rather than searching through google for sites to support your point of view

It's not the end of the world you know! Cheer up!
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

the Ramadan incident
Haha! I had a great time in Dubai - and I was happy to respect the culture and morals of my hosts :)
107 months ago (permalink)

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AlmaZ says:

Well Well, what do you expect from 'someone' who's admin a group like this!!!

www.flickr.com/groups/flickrantisocial/
107 months ago (permalink)

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AlmaZ says:

it deosn't seem to be that way teo!
107 months ago (permalink)

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wirehead says:

See, the fundamental difference between the way we do things in the US (thanks to people fighting for their rights) and elsewhere is that in the US, if you are sufficently offended by nudity, you can install software that... *cough* works about as good as the UAE filter.

But here, you still have the choice of filtering-free access.

Really, the problem is that even if Flickr does have an 18+ wall, what standards do they use? Do we have an "islam" wall, too, that means that any un-veiled women are to be blocked? Personally, I'm quite happy with the way things are and the comfortable ambiguity, because I feel that once you start trying to mark stuff as 18+, it tends to just begin a slippery slope. :/
107 months ago (permalink)

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Jan Tik says:

Almaz, and you have nothing better to do but throw one liners. How insightful! What capacity for reason! Your intellectual superiority is breathtaking...
107 months ago (permalink)

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teotwawki says:

it deosn't seem to be that way teo!
Now that you mention it, I was a little disappointed about the constant heat. I protested to your government about it, demanding that they implement a giant sunshade to protect my delicate skin from being corrupted. They paid no attention to me. So I made vague, empty threats to them for a few years until I got bored ;)
107 months ago (permalink)

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Dave Ward Photography says:

AlmaZ, why don't you do something more productive with your time than defending and promoting systematic oppression, and scouring the profiles of other Flickr users looking for groups they administrate?

But what do you expect from someone who's a member of a group like this?
107 months ago (permalink)

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AlmaZ says:

Back to basic

does anyone knows Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs!!!

You guys are fighting for censorship, and you came from places where homelessness is an issue 'some decided to turn a blind eye'!
107 months ago (permalink)

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Phil Nesmith says:

@ Wirehead-

Bravo...
107 months ago (permalink)

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tabhastal says:

Sometimes I am asked why Americans fear Muslims from the middle east.

I fear any society that will allow itself to be shackled, by government or religion.
107 months ago (permalink)

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