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Sam Bennett
1:30pm, 7 April 2008
So, in keeping with Murphy's Law, the weekend after my 40D breaks I have to shoot an interior at the place where I knew I'd need the 10-22. I went in and tried to get away with the 1D Mark III and the 24-70mm, but as soon as I got to the bedroom it became clear it wasn't going to work.
I've modified EF-S lenses in the past, so I modifieD the 10-22 by popping off the piece of plastic and rubber on the back which is the only thing that prevents it from mounting on non-EF-S bodies.
The thing to know is that at 10mm, the element protrudes into the part you're going to pop off, but if you set it to 22mm the element recedes into the body of the lens. So to start, set it to 22mm...


After that, getting the piece off is a cinch. Take something wide, flat and just big enough to get into the cavity (I don't recommend a leather man, but I'm old school like that) with the "end" of your lever pointing towards the contacts. Then rock backwards, and...



Voila!

I figured that at the worst I'd have to crop out a bit of very strong vignetting - but to my surprise the vignetting actually isn't that bad. Ultimately the vignetting at 12mm and on can be overcome with Lightroom's vignetting correction.
Here's three shots, uncropped and un-corrected for vignetting:
At 12mm:

At 12mm

At 10mm:

As far as interference with the mirror... I got one Err 99 shooting at 10mm with a fairly close focusing distance, and it sound like the mirror returned to starting position when the camera was turned off, so I think that it was interfering - so I will be avoiding 10mm even though at longer focusing distances (the bedroom shot above) it doesn't seem to interfere. But it's nice to know that in a pinch, the lens is totally usable on my 1D. For some reason, the rear element doesn't go as far into the cavity as it does with the 17-55mm f/2.8.
I've modified EF-S lenses in the past, so I modifieD the 10-22 by popping off the piece of plastic and rubber on the back which is the only thing that prevents it from mounting on non-EF-S bodies.
The thing to know is that at 10mm, the element protrudes into the part you're going to pop off, but if you set it to 22mm the element recedes into the body of the lens. So to start, set it to 22mm...


After that, getting the piece off is a cinch. Take something wide, flat and just big enough to get into the cavity (I don't recommend a leather man, but I'm old school like that) with the "end" of your lever pointing towards the contacts. Then rock backwards, and...



Voila!

I figured that at the worst I'd have to crop out a bit of very strong vignetting - but to my surprise the vignetting actually isn't that bad. Ultimately the vignetting at 12mm and on can be overcome with Lightroom's vignetting correction.
Here's three shots, uncropped and un-corrected for vignetting:
At 12mm:

At 12mm

At 10mm:

As far as interference with the mirror... I got one Err 99 shooting at 10mm with a fairly close focusing distance, and it sound like the mirror returned to starting position when the camera was turned off, so I think that it was interfering - so I will be avoiding 10mm even though at longer focusing distances (the bedroom shot above) it doesn't seem to interfere. But it's nice to know that in a pinch, the lens is totally usable on my 1D. For some reason, the rear element doesn't go as far into the cavity as it does with the 17-55mm f/2.8.
Evanickelbridger
16 years ago
The process looks painful - but I see the results don't look bad!
What does the 10mm EF-S become as an EF? (focal length-wise, if that makes sense)
What does the 10mm EF-S become as an EF? (focal length-wise, if that makes sense)
Jalexsmith
16 years ago
@ Scubapup - lol.
That's awesome that you can do that. I've been wanting the 10-22 for a while. It seems really nice.
That's awesome that you can do that. I've been wanting the 10-22 for a while. It seems really nice.
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
What does the 10mm EF-S become as an EF? (focal length-wise, if that makes sense)
On a 1.3 crop it's 13mm. The math doesn't get much easier than that. ;)
On a 1.3 crop it's 13mm. The math doesn't get much easier than that. ;)
transiently permanent
16 years ago
Nice work! How happy are you with the resulting images under close examination?
Or, you use the Tokina 12-24 which can be mounted even to a 5D.
You only will have strong vignetting until about 18mm (on a 1.3crop I reckon until about 15mm)! ;-)
You only will have strong vignetting until about 18mm (on a 1.3crop I reckon until about 15mm)! ;-)
The 10-22 stays a 10-22 lens on the 1D. But if you want the effect of a 10mm on a 1.6 sensor you would have to set it to 13mm with the 1D.
You would need a 7.6mm lens on a 1.6 sensor camera to reproduce the 10mm photo from the 1D.
The vignetting in the extreme corners is very noticeable but still correctable with software if you accept the extra noise made visible by the brightening.
You would need a 7.6mm lens on a 1.6 sensor camera to reproduce the 10mm photo from the 1D.
The vignetting in the extreme corners is very noticeable but still correctable with software if you accept the extra noise made visible by the brightening.
Jon's snaps
16 years ago
Damn....cudos to the guy with the cojones big enough to take a leatherman to a nearly $700 lens....nice results as well!
tmronin
16 years ago
hell yeah sam! i knew you would figure out a way to get around the EF-S.
hey andreas - the 1D is a 1.3 (well, 1.25) cropped sensor, you are thinking of the 1Ds which is full frame.
hey andreas - the 1D is a 1.3 (well, 1.25) cropped sensor, you are thinking of the 1Ds which is full frame.
inate
16 years ago
Don't know if I'd have had the guts to try that but that's great. Sounds like it's a tight fit with the mirror at 10mm
jim.shelly40D
16 years ago
now that takes some guts...very cool though! LOL at the leatherman ripping apart a lens...who woulda thunk!
Were you able to get it all put back together?
Were you able to get it all put back together?
Sam Bennett
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Sam Bennett (member) 16 years ago
Yeah, the piece pops easily back in place - it's just held in by some tabs.. So once I get my 40D back I'll likely keep the piece in the until I run into another emergency.
Nigel No 4
16 years ago
Nice one Sam. Very interesting. Especially as the 10-22 is such a good lens.
Did you have that stiff drink before or after?
Did you have that stiff drink before or after?
BoldPuppy
16 years ago
Careful with that - the 1.3x's mirror is smaller than the film mirror... you are likely to only be able to use it from 15mm or so to 22mm...
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
If you poke around the net you'll see people using 35mm bodies with this lens, so you can do it.
Sam Bennett
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Sam Bennett (member) 16 years ago
Re did the shot I did when I first got the lens and tried it with the 40D...
40D @ 10mm:

1D Mark III @ 11mm (EXIF says 10mm, but I set it more towards 10/11 - trying to not smack the mirror) - no vignetting correction:
40D @ 10mm:

1D Mark III @ 11mm (EXIF says 10mm, but I set it more towards 10/11 - trying to not smack the mirror) - no vignetting correction:
inate
16 years ago
It's still wide - only way you'd get close to that with a canon lens is the 14mm for 2K
@tmronin I did indeed think of the 1D but I used a wrong conversion factor. The difference between 1.3 and 1.6 crop is 1.23 and not 1.3. So the lens focal lengths would be 12.3 and 8.1 mm.
toomanycolours.co.uk
16 years ago
balls of steel - I'm seriously impressed.
I was looking for a low cost wide option for a 5D . . .
I was looking for a low cost wide option for a 5D . . .
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
I've used the 17-55/2.8 with this modification on my old Mark II. You can mount it, but the mirror interferes around 18mm and you see much, much more vignetting. I figured you'd see even more vignetting with this setup, so the results were pretty unexpected. This modification is much more useful.
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
Here's some shots with the Mark II and the 17-55, forget what focal lengths these are at, unfortunately:


I think this is 18mm...

...and this is 55mm.


I think this is 18mm...

...and this is 55mm.
Sam Bennett
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Sam Bennett (member) 16 years ago
FWIW, I just tried doing this with my 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS and it either doesn't pop off like the 17-55 and 10-22, or I'm being too much of a pussy. ;)
Pulling apart a 490GBP lens, that's brave (I gave away the kit lens that came on my 20D, perhaps I should ask for it back and see how it works on a 5D).
The images you posted look pretty good. Very impressed.
The images you posted look pretty good. Very impressed.
Jalexsmith
16 years ago
@ Sam - The vignetting in the 17-55 on the MKII lens is horrible. It looks like you did a filter in PS.
iNancy iMages
16 years ago
Yeah! This is the kind of thread we need more of. Not newbs who can't work out what lens they want, whinging because they can't search a forum or use Google, but real hairy-chested frontier spirit Leatherman-toting work-it-out-for-yaself stuff.
Bravo!
But yes, you are nucking futs. Does that bung go back in OK? Those electronics look scarily exposed for long term use...
Bravo!
But yes, you are nucking futs. Does that bung go back in OK? Those electronics look scarily exposed for long term use...
Chris Homan
16 years ago
Balls of steel! But I bookmarked this nonetheless, who knows, I may have to go the same route one day.
Antoine_K
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Antoine_K (member) 16 years ago
I love it. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
See the link below. I bet this guy would wish he tried it before the dremel.
www.pbase.com/elliot/modify
See the link below. I bet this guy would wish he tried it before the dremel.
www.pbase.com/elliot/modify
Brendan Falkowski
16 years ago
That's complete sickness. I love how you nonchalantly plan to pop it back in when your 40D is back.
ElWanderer
16 years ago
Amazing stuff! I can't believe how little vignetting there is... means the image circle cast much be a fair bit larger than it actually needs to be for the 1.6x crop cameras it's designed to fit on.
I've kinda bookmarked this by posting a link to it from the 10-22 lens group, where it'll be much easier to find again!
I've kinda bookmarked this by posting a link to it from the 10-22 lens group, where it'll be much easier to find again!
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
See the link below. I bet this guy would wish he tried it before the dremel.
www.pbase.com/elliot/modify
LOL - That's hilarious! There's really no reason to go the dremel route. The only reason you'd really want to do that - to preserve some sort of dust protection with the lens, or to limit the lens from protruding further into the cavity than it needs to, but neither are accomplished with that approach. You can see that his approach removes the portion of lens that goes from the back of the lens to the PC board.
www.pbase.com/elliot/modify
LOL - That's hilarious! There's really no reason to go the dremel route. The only reason you'd really want to do that - to preserve some sort of dust protection with the lens, or to limit the lens from protruding further into the cavity than it needs to, but neither are accomplished with that approach. You can see that his approach removes the portion of lens that goes from the back of the lens to the PC board.
thechrisproject
16 years ago
Aha. I was wondering why there were a bunch of pictures of you tearing apart a lens in your photostream.
daveawebber
16 years ago
Sam ...........................bloody hell i have to scroll back to the top to look at your pictures and this guys to see what the differencise as said before and now
Your Nucking nuts but i am glad you did may be Canon will then start up a system where they can retrofit the .S.. lense to fit any camera just as you have done save us a packet :o)
dave
Your Nucking nuts but i am glad you did may be Canon will then start up a system where they can retrofit the .S.. lense to fit any camera just as you have done save us a packet :o)
dave
Clayton Doty
16 years ago
SO i just tried this on my 18-55efs kit lens that came with my rebal. (The aperture ring had locked and the lens was dead. I was keeping it around to take apart for something.) Well i placed on my digital rebal first just to make sure that it still didnt work. No luck, still broken, so out came my leatherman. Now the top part did not come off any were close to as clean as yours did. Let just say a lot of little plastic chunks. :) Well when i got done it looked nice. So i threw it on my old film body to just look around and see what it looked like. First thing i noticed was that the aperture ring was not stuck down any more. It was open. This was strange. So i tried changing the aperture and what would ya know it changed. So back to the digital rebal. Well heck it now works just great.
So long story short. Thanks for helping me fix my broken lens.
So long story short. Thanks for helping me fix my broken lens.
Sam Bennett
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Sam Bennett (member) 16 years ago
Bump for Gil, since he apparently missed this thread...
And Clayton - apparently you don't follow the maxim of "If it don't work, bang on it harder!". ;)
And Clayton - apparently you don't follow the maxim of "If it don't work, bang on it harder!". ;)
inate
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by inate (member) 16 years ago
I wouldn't do this but I get vicarious thrills from looking at the pictures...
Felipe's photography
16 years ago
this is crazy!!!
but i have no reason to do it cause i only have a 30D
but someday when i upgrade to the 1D ill give it a try :)
but i have no reason to do it cause i only have a 30D
but someday when i upgrade to the 1D ill give it a try :)
Gil Rivera Photos
16 years ago
actually sam i just found it. sam you're the best. i'm going to keep in contact with you if you don't mind. i'm going to buy and old used lens to test this out. i don't think i dare try it on my current lens.
thank you sam for posting this.
thank you sam for posting this.
Antoine_K
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Antoine_K (member) 16 years ago
Ooh-ooh-ooooh! (you know, like Horshack).
Everyone can now go to keh and buy an inoperative EF-S from the As-Is section for cheap and hope it works by popping off the plastic thingy like Clayton.
Everyone can now go to keh and buy an inoperative EF-S from the As-Is section for cheap and hope it works by popping off the plastic thingy like Clayton.
macchiaaato
16 years ago
How was the Autofocus? Could the body and lens focus together?
And this is crazyyy.
And this is crazyyy.
SomeBeans
16 years ago
It sounds like mirror interfering with rear elements of of lens was a fairly gentle affair (i.e. mirror and lens come into contact, camera realises somethings up, stops trying and throws a Err99) - is that correct?
Sam Bennett
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Sam Bennett (member) 16 years ago
Yeah. This is just a guess, but it seems to be that the mirror only makes contact on the downswing (since you can hear the mirror reset after turning the camera off), so there isn't a lot of pressure involved. You can move the mirror with your finger pretty easily.
RogerAF (Find A Photographer)
16 years ago
big cojones! nice work though
@aye_shamus - love the old school quote!
@aye_shamus - love the old school quote!
iomarch
16 years ago
This confuses me. If it's that easy to mod it and there's no significant light fall off, why the hell didn't they just make it an EF lens?!
Photography by Sue
16 years ago
Yes, iomarch has a VERY valid point. it just doesn't make sense does it!!!
gira
16 years ago
You're crazy, and for that I bow down to you, lol.
The vingetting on the 17-55 is bad... however I guess if you wanted to go for a different look, without using PS, it could be pretty cool.
But, you are much braver than I am... but then I have neither the lens, nor the fancy camera body ;-)
The vingetting on the 17-55 is bad... however I guess if you wanted to go for a different look, without using PS, it could be pretty cool.
But, you are much braver than I am... but then I have neither the lens, nor the fancy camera body ;-)
n+s
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by n+s (member) 16 years ago
that's bloody insane ! now i've got something to do with the busted 10-22mm i have in my studio (was dropped and the auto/manual focus switch no workie any more... but works manually just fine) will really want this on the 5D and 1Dm3. and yeah, like josh sez above - post this in the 1DIII group too !
Babu Juliet-India-Mike Golf
16 years ago
Amazingly I tried my Tamron 11-18 on a mark III and had all sorts of vignetting and light drop off. No mirror interference since they don't make it an F series lens but I was not too happy with the results. It was wide but the shots had to be cropped drastically to be usable.
Probably will not modify any of my lenses for now. I am more of a "bigger hammer" mechanic.
Probably will not modify any of my lenses for now. I am more of a "bigger hammer" mechanic.
@iomarch An EF lens would have to work on full frame cameras too. The EF-S 10-22 just almost works on a 1.3 crop camera. It still has a bit too much vignetting. Vignetting is a bit of a problem of this lens even with 1.6 crop cameras.
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
Yeah, I'm shooting with a 1D Mark III, so it's just 1.3 - and the vignetting is bad enough that I wouldn't really want to use this regularly. It's really an "in case of emergency" thing, as far as I'm concerned.
Guillermo -
16 years ago
Sam I have to you and I really mean this
you are BY FAR the craziest hardcore photographer ( i was gonna say mofo too!) i ever encountered.
I would nver had the guts to do that in a million years, ur the man!
great pictures by the way
you are BY FAR the craziest hardcore photographer ( i was gonna say mofo too!) i ever encountered.
I would nver had the guts to do that in a million years, ur the man!
great pictures by the way
Guillermo -
16 years ago
because you gotta have balls the size of ostrich eggs to do that, would you do that to a lens of yours?
iomarch
16 years ago
I'd consider it, especially if I was making enough money off photography to cover costs.
What a shame, I gave my brother my old 10-22 with the 30D and 17-55. I have the 17-40 though - maybe a night sortie for retrieval!
Well done - nice to see some home-spun engineering
Well done - nice to see some home-spun engineering
DanTrotter.net
16 years ago
Wow, I didn't think it was possible. Now i'm wondering if I should buy to 10-22 to try this.
n+s
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by n+s (member) 16 years ago
i did it i did it !
curiousity got the best of me and i actually discovered you can pull the plastic cap out with your fingers. of course, at your own risk. slight tug and the clips popped out. wowzee, it's on the 1Dm3 right now and will be on the 5D this weekend ! This should be fun. I can report that at 10mm or all the way to the left it smacks the mirror.
Best I've found (on 1D3, 1.3 crop) to get widest possible - 11mm, right at the first 1 of 12 on the dial. this assumes no filter or hood - slim filter very slight vignetting, normal filter greater vignetting. with hood, very funky framing. will see what she's like on full frame later.
clip pops right back into place too !
curiousity got the best of me and i actually discovered you can pull the plastic cap out with your fingers. of course, at your own risk. slight tug and the clips popped out. wowzee, it's on the 1Dm3 right now and will be on the 5D this weekend ! This should be fun. I can report that at 10mm or all the way to the left it smacks the mirror.
Best I've found (on 1D3, 1.3 crop) to get widest possible - 11mm, right at the first 1 of 12 on the dial. this assumes no filter or hood - slim filter very slight vignetting, normal filter greater vignetting. with hood, very funky framing. will see what she's like on full frame later.
clip pops right back into place too !
gazzab2007
16 years ago
well if you had bought the sigma 10-20 you wouldnt have had to go to all this trouble, it goes straight on a 1d mk3 with no probs and no cut off from 13mm.
The 10-22 has no cutoff even at 10mm. But you have to avoid close focusing to stay out of the reach of the mirror.
n+s
16 years ago
gazza: the point was to get a canon branded efs lens on a ef body. the sigma distortion vs. the canon distortion is quite noticeable and quality is much better on canon. and it wasn't really a problem as i use(d) the 10-22 on the 20D and 40D we have. this just opens the doors of possibility a bit more.
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
The only bummer about this that I've found is that now when I use it on the 40D it doesn't seem wide enough! LOL
Oh well.
Here's some shots from my last Roller Derby bout, first time using it for this (on the 40D as my second camera)...


(craziest conditions I've ever shot under - crazy sunlight on one side, dark thunderstorm clouds on the other side, HID's above and a Flash on the camera... yikes!)
Oh well.
Here's some shots from my last Roller Derby bout, first time using it for this (on the 40D as my second camera)...


(craziest conditions I've ever shot under - crazy sunlight on one side, dark thunderstorm clouds on the other side, HID's above and a Flash on the camera... yikes!)
Jalexsmith
16 years ago
@ Sam - That is crazy lighting. I've never shot anything like that before, but I get to shoot a Faculty vs. Student basketball game for my school today.....it'll be my first time shooting under HIDs.....
Michael B.
Posted 16 years ago. Edited by Michael B. (member) 16 years ago
curiousity got the best of me and i actually discovered you can pull the plastic cap out with your fingers. of course, at your own risk. slight tug and the clips popped out. wowzee, it's on the 1Dm3 right now and will be on the 5D this weekend ! .
Man, I should have kept my 10-22!! So how did this work on the 5D?
Man, I should have kept my 10-22!! So how did this work on the 5D?
Schoolbookdepository
16 years ago
I see you have an Aussie Dog.....nothing to do with the thread.Im just patriotic :)
Sam Bennett
16 years ago
For what it's worth, I did a lot of shooting with this set up this weekend around the grounds of the renovated cotton mill that we live in. Still really loving the setup - only really see bad vignetting when I'm around 10-12mm.
Sorry, don't know the focal lengths off the top of my head here, so you'll have to click in to see it.



Sorry, don't know the focal lengths off the top of my head here, so you'll have to click in to see it.



zanderredux
16 years ago
omg. one needs serious balls to stick a leatherman into the lens and pop out the ring (never knew it came out like that). wow.