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Epoxy / varnish woes

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Skykomish1 says:

Anybody who has seen my Facebook post on Skykomish Facebook page will already be aware of this problem that I am having.
I have stripped my washboards back to bare wood, sanded them smooth then skimmed them with epoxy (SP106) . this appeared to harden ok and so I then applied a coat of yacht varnish, however this refused to dry, it would go tacky but not harden despite being in my conservatory with heating on. I cleaned it off and tried twice more but same result on ALL three panels. I am wondering if there is an issue with the epoxy coat (maybe it did not fully cure?) so any ideas how I can strip this off and get back to the wood or could I reapply another coat of epoxy and seal in the old layer????
Suggestions would be welcome.
9:28AM, 2 March 2014 PDT (permalink)

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pjbharrison says:

Which varnish did you use, Malcolm?
I used West systems epoxy and Ronseal Satin finish Yacht varnish with no problem.
66 months ago (permalink)

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Fast Lex says:

Sorry Malcom, no experience in this field.
66 months ago (permalink)

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Andrew Curry says:

Hi

I would try asking this question the PBO forum. I have only used International varnish on top of west epoxy with no problems.
66 months ago (permalink)

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bengunn2 says:

Hi Malcolm, there may be a residual blush on the cured epoxy, try washing the cured epoxy with a mild soap solution preferably using scotchbrite or similar before revarnishing.
66 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish1 says:

Thanks Guys... I am using Ronseal Yacht Varnish Gloss, which has worked a treat on my Pontoon Sign.
Bengunn : that is worth a try I shall let you know how I got on.
I have contacted Ronseals technical team for advice too awaiting a reply.
66 months ago (permalink)

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NormanKlipspringer is a group administrator NormanKlipspringer says:

How long did you leave the epoxy to cure. I am not an expert but from my research epoxy can take days to fully cure even though it appears hard. Heat continuing to come off from the curing process would \I guess stop the varnish from going off??
66 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish1 says:

That is what I was thinking Norman as I actually applied the first coat only a few hours after the epoxy appeared cured, this was why I was contemplating starting again. But am not looking forward to the prospect of attempting to strip the epoxy coat.. I am hoping that Bengunn's solution will work. Ihave stripped varnish from one of the panels, washed it in soapy water and scotchbrite pad, then when dry lightly sanded smooth before wiping down with a turps soaked cloth, have now applied a thin coat of varnish and awaiting the result.
Originally posted 66 months ago. (permalink)
Skykomish1 edited this topic 66 months ago.

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pjbharrison says:

I found the West epoxy to cure fastest but I still left it for about a week before varnishing. I used another brand of epoxy, ASC Resin, last summer and it was very slow to cure even at 20+ degrees. It was still tacky after nearly a week.

Hope it goes better this time
66 months ago (permalink)

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NormanKlipspringer is a group administrator NormanKlipspringer says:

This looks like your problem. I would get the varnish off and leave it for some time say 2 weeks or more before reapplying. Good luck.
66 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish1 says:

OK chaps a short update: Having followed BenGunn's suggestion I can report that the varnish is now drying as it should. But not the beautiful finish I am used to but this could be down to the quality of the wood.
I received an interesting if not very helpful reply from Ronseal's technical department who advise me that I should ventilate our conservatory to help the drying process (fair point) , however something that did surprise me was that they say that their Yacht Varnish is not suitable for use below the waterline... so all of those nice classic timber boats out there should not be varnished using Ronseal.. infact should this product be actually called yacht varnish??????
66 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

I would normally use anti fouling below the water line.
66 months ago (permalink)

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blueachilles says:

We used Ronseal Yacht Varnish for our washboards last year, four coats at least, but water still got into the wood.

To be fair, it does say on the tin "Not suitable for Marine Use", which I took to mean not under the waterline. Its supposed to be ok for outdoor use, so you'd think it would be ok for washboards....

Son in Law is a rep for Ronseal so we got ours cheap!!!
66 months ago (permalink)

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bengunn2 says:

Excellent, it usually works, Now you can build up that lovely luster we can see in your photostream shots !!
66 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Why would anyone want to varnish below the waterline?
Not resistant to UV light is the problem.
66 months ago (permalink)

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rothwell_neil says:

I started using International Compass Varnish and highly rate it, easy to get good finish and easy to apply.
65 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish1 says:

errr Ron it does say on the tin high resistance to U.V. that is why I used it on top of the epoxy coat..however I shall be returning to good old Le Tonquinois .
Classic Boat have been running a long term test on varnishes / wood treatments and standard yacht varnish didn't get very far.
However I seem to be forever re doing the varnish on Skykomish no matter what brand, even Epifanes and so it seems little point spending a fortune on something that is going to need recoating in 12 months.
Originally posted 65 months ago. (permalink)
Skykomish1 edited this topic 65 months ago.

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BERT A24 says:

This may be of interest:
Bonda Marine Wood Seal

Wood Seal is formulated with high performance moisture hardened resin. It provides a clear
waterproof coating with excellent non- yellowing properties, Wood Seal has good gloss
retention and forms a tough flexible coating that can be applied in poor conditions and low
temperatures. Each coat hardens quickly enabling three or four coats to be applied in a day.
This will provide a high gloss surface. Should a super smooth surface be required then each
coat can be lightly sanded down, the dust removed and another coat applied.

Also this:
G4 Primer Cast Iron Ballast Keels

When anti-fouling cast iron ballets keels G4 has proved, in practice, to be a very effective
bonding primer. It also forms a non porous seal that helps to prevent rusting. G4 can be
applied in conditions where it would be impossible to use conventional coatings, down to 0°C
and high relative humidity. The keel must be clean and the first coat of anti-fouling applied
while the G4 is finger tacky to ensure good chemical adhesion. There can be a reaction
between some anti-fouling and G4, it is advisable to carry out a test before the major
application s made.
65 months ago (permalink)

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Freebird 1011 says:

Interesting I haven't heard of Bonda marine products before. A very quick Google dident bring up any info such as the manufactures main web site or info sheets. In fact very little info at all, which is strange as the blurb above would suggest a very good product? any more info Bert?

Malcolm, I think you have got over the problem by now thanks to Bengunn but I think for future reference in my experience it is most important to wash epoxy before varnishing. One would think a good sanding would be enough but it seems not (don't ask me how I know this)

On the the general clear coating of timber I have stopped using epoxy as a first/primer layer and gone back to traditional varnish thinning the first coat very heavily (to get it to go into the wood) followed by a second less thinned coat then as many full coats as time and will power will allow. It seems to last just as well as epoxy and is easier and cheaper to do.

Good luck, Duncan
Originally posted 65 months ago. (permalink)
Freebird 1011 edited this topic 65 months ago.

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bengunn2 says:

Bonda have never had a really big ad profile although we have been using G4 for over 40 years, mainly for priming cured grp laminates and timber, prior to bonding ie. bulkheads, general mods etc., with regard to surface prep of cured epoxy, this is well documented and is generally part of epoxy manufacturers basic blub, referencing the removal of "Amine blush" which in my experience is present in varying degrees in all but PERFECT application conditions, it is easily washed off. sanding, as you say, is not enough, at best it just spreads contamination. simple washing will always work and ofcourse using peel ply on larger areas is always advisable/cost effective.
65 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish1 says:

Duncan,
Thanks, the only reason that I used epoxy this time on the washboards is that water had got into the joints and under the varnish, necessitating stripping right back, drying out sanding the wood flat where it had started to lift around the joints, then apply epoxy coat ensuring that it penetrated into the cracks around the joints in the wood and thus sealing it.
Normally I use the same method as you which has resulted in a nice finish.

I have indeed progressed a little and have now started re applying the signwriting to the panels
65 months ago (permalink)

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spearhead_027 says:

Since I'm currently away from home and cannot find the exact answer in my head, I've been keeping out of the part of this topic concerning Bonda products. The proper name of the firm is Bondaglass Voss Ltd, Ravenscroft Road, Beckenham, Kent. Their origins are German, which may be why they have been rather slow to blow their trumpet. They seem to have been in the GRP business since the days when you had to design your own boat, so they had a free field to develop a wide collection of resins and finishes, and those I have used have all been good. You can Google them although I cannot recall an official web site.
I first heard of them, being a fairly new Hunter 19 owner, from Peter Poland, who circularised all then Hunter owners to suggest that they might find a use for G4.... and so it has grown. I had changed up to an Achilles before I really started knocking spots off rocks with my keel - G4 was the best-sticking coating for cast iron under this maltreatment, but you had to stick to the rules when it came to antifouling on top of it.
Ian.
65 months ago (permalink)

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