Discussions (1287)

New to Achilles

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Laskinner says:

Hi all,
I recently picked up a tired old A24 to keep me busy over the winter. Hoping to get her back in the water before Christmas after sitting on a trailer since the 90's. The work is mostly cosmetic to be fair, but I'm looking for a mainsail if anyone has one knocking about. It doesn't have to be perfect, just usable so as to get her on the lake again.
The plan is to get her sail worthy, and then refit the inside on the water on days when the wind is being disagreeable :-)
Cheers,
Leonard.

Based around Cork and Limerick in Ireland, sailing Lough Derg.
2:07PM, 25 September 2012 PDT (permalink)

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Andrew Curry says:

Welcome to the group.
83 months ago (permalink)

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pjbharrison says:

Hi Leonard

Welcome to the group.
Is that the boat that was on Adverts.ie?
Will you be sailing from Dromineer?
I have some sails that may get you going. I'm in Navan and sail out of Skerries. Send me a flickr mail and we can have a chat.

Paul
83 months ago (permalink)

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Red Marlin says:

So so good to hear of another Achilles being given a new lease of life. I am sure you will get an enormous amount of pleasure from it (or is it her)
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

Thanks for the warm welcome, I'm trying to track down a little information on the boat, year etc, I will post some photo's later to help, but in the mean time is there any advise around how to go about this, or links that might list the variations or the different years?
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Tell me the sail no.. I have the records...
I have rebuilt Three .. Chilli pepper Snowgoose and Goskar.
Click on Chilles photo stream,,
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

I don't have a sail number :-( is it marked on the boat somewhere?
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Possibilly on the roof lining back port side foreward,,
Do you know her original name?
I would only be able to email the name (privacy)
Only one boat.. no 56 was sold new to ireland, sceptre
Has she got a bulb on the keel bottom?
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
busy home edited this topic 83 months ago.

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Laskinner says:

She was striped out for racing, so all that was left inside was a bare hull, and the start of a refit, makes life easier for me in refitting. Not sure if I would call it a bulb, but it does have a swolen keel bottom :-) I will post some photo's later this evening.
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Merlin is deeper no bulb ,early , 40
Goskar is 147 , bulb but deeper inside ,,than later boats
Later a false floor was in but foam lined below it which absorbed water,and leeked OUT when ashore.
Also early boats had a small lazerette top , and different deck moulding ..
About no 350 ,, chain plates were moved in board , to get better sheeting angle , Very early boats were 7/8 rig ,
83 months ago (permalink)

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NormanKlipspringer is a group administrator NormanKlipspringer says:

I echo what Ron (Chille Pepper) says. Boats were not marked in manufacture with any ID, but some owners have done this at a latter date. Have a good look around you may be lucky - 3 digit number). The sails usually have the sail number on them. That was the only ID I could find on my boats.
Good luck.
Norman
83 months ago (permalink)

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pjbharrison says:

Norman,
I found some photos of Leonard's boat online. I has an off set outboard well. Have you or anyone else seen another like this?

www.adverts.ie/boats-accessories/achilles-24-yacht-for-sa...

It might help in narrowing down the production dates
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

That's the very one :-) didn't realise it was advertised there, I discovered it while chatting at a mooring (as you do), and have always fancied one, since reading an article in PBO about 10 years ago.
83 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish E29 says:

the offset well is different! from the photo though it looks like the outboard engine would take a chunk out of the rudder if it were turned hard across.
Would this have been a kit built one ?
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Thats not got a bulbed keel ... has it?
83 months ago (permalink)

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Andrew Curry says:

Looks like a very early. version. Same keel as Merlin
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Pre no 50 then?
83 months ago (permalink)

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pjbharrison says:

Helm's Deep is No.64 and doesn't have a bulbed keel.
Is there a high step into the cabin or does the hatch go to about 4" from cockpit sole
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

The high brige deck came after 350 ish
You must have the old deck,, so how did you get into the lazerette/?
Are you still that monkey..
Oh yes ,, checked ... old lazerette and deck
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
busy home edited this topic 83 months ago.

busy home [deleted] says:

I bet shes no 56.. sceptre,
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Well !!!!! Look up Galway Blazer,,,,,,, Hes your man.
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

Just uploaded 2 photo's of the cockpit, first time using flickr, so hopefully it worked.
By all accounts, the boat was raced in Dublin, and then sold and put on a trailer in the late 90's. The last owner started the refit then, but has left it for some time, and now I have it, that is as much as I know about it.
The tinted polycarb window covers the 3 holes of the original windows.
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Yes worked.. Check Galway blazer,,,!! ties in,,,,,,,,,,,,Google.
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
busy home edited this topic 83 months ago.

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Skykomish E29 says:

Looks like, from the photos, the lazerette was used to house the engine. this is very unusual and must make engine control access difficult. But I suppose that you just keep the o/b locked in the "ahead " position and have the handle with the throttle poking out of the top, still don't see how you can use the pull start though.
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

Chille Pepper,
googled Galway Blazer, still none the wiser.... ok, you're going to have to use small words for me, is there something obvious that I'm missing?
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Bill king owned her!
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

Wow, is there a way that we can be sure of that?
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

No 77 rebel was sold to a man in cork.
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

No. 16 spare time ,, castle rock ,, carrigalline cork
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

Looking at her photos I would revise my assessment and say no 16
Looks more like a prototype.. Sorry if I got your hopes up.. I was excited for a minute there!
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
busy home edited this topic 83 months ago.

busy home [deleted] says:

No.. 40 Merlin has standard outboard position .. and bog.
83 months ago (permalink)

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NormanKlipspringer is a group administrator NormanKlipspringer says:

I cannot add anything to what has already been said about the boat ID. Outboards can be adapted to pull start vertically. Looks as though there could be issues with the rudder - suspicious looking horizontal marks where either the rudder had fouled the prop or possibly is beginning to delaminate around one of the stainless tangs which are the main structure of the rudder. There are several discussions and photographs on this site about that.
Good luck. - keep us posted on progress.
PS You may find the index on the main site of some use. In particular the section on refits www.achillesyachts.co.uk/page5.html.
83 months ago (permalink)

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Slycat777 says:

Aye, 52 here standard outboard position and no bulb.
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

Thanks for all the info :-) Really excited about getting stuck into the work. I have a busy schedule for the weekend so it'll probably be a few days before I get any work done, but I will try to keep a record as I go, and post updates and photo's.
In the mean time I will try to get more photo's up today in an effort to nail down an ID.
83 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish E29 says:

One word of caution, don't try and do too much too quickly, start off with the easy jobs that give quick results, otherwise you will get bogged down and feel that you are not making progress and become disillusioned.
The obvious starting point will be to clear ALL of the rubbish out of the boat. Then sit down and decide the layout for the interior, based on what you plan to use it for. I certainly would consider getting rid of that toilet, there simply isn't enough room in the forecabin to use it where it is. Secondly before getting too committed get that rudder looked at, if as Norman suggests the rudder is delaminating now would be the time to find out not when you are back in the water. It is possible to have a replacement made and has been done on here by some members.
Unless you are skilled like Ron (dhille pepper) keep the rebuild simple Ron has done some great refits but he does have the advantage of being a skilled sprayer and having a son who works on super yachts.
There are simply loads of pictures on here of various jobs undertaken and reference material in relation to how things "should" be, if you get stuck ask, somebody on here will be able to help.
Something that I admit is causing me some concern is the outboard engine well, as you will see on other boats it is set in the cockpit well for some very good reasons, it provides superb cockpit drainage, it puts the engine directly in front of the rudder, makes access to the engine simple and you won't get the prop fouling the rudder. I admit moving it now would be far to complicated and as you are sailing in a lake may not be too much of an issue. An alternative would be to lose the well altogether fairing the bottom to match the rest of the boat, and mounting a small o/b on the stern (not ideal but short of major structural cutting a new hole in the cockpit floor I really can't think of an alternative, unless you fit an inboard engine like Snoopy did)
Having said all that it is a great little boat and there is plenty of scope to have a great deal of fun, however like with all of these sort of things, and many of us have found, don't expect to make a killing when she is restored and it comes to selling her, Achilles seem to top out at the very most at around £6000 and that would need to be in tip top A1 condition, limit your restoration to YOUR pleasure and do it for you. I think many on here will tell you how frighteningly expensive it can become if you start looking at what you are spending.
Good luck everybody on here will be willing to help in some way and look forward to seeing your progress.
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
Skykomish E29 edited this topic 83 months ago.

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Laskinner says:

Thanks for all the sound advice, the response from my first query about the boat has really blown me away, and given me the confidance to push on knowing that I can ask about the tricky bits.
This is my second boat restoration, the last was a Pirate 17, which I learned to sail on and although I do miss it, I have grown out of it.
I'm in the fortunate position of having access to several engineering workshops (I teach engineering) which means that my tiny budget can go a long way by making pretty much anything that I may need. Painting is probably my weakest point, but here is a good opportunity to learn.
Thanks again to everyone, and thanks in advance of my future probing :-)
Speaking of budget, and I know you will all laugh :-) but I'm aiming to complete the boat for €500! I plan to do a lot of recycling...
83 months ago (permalink)

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Slycat777 says:

>I'm in the fortunate position of having access to several engineering
>workshops

You're going to regret telling us that!!
83 months ago (permalink)

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pjbharrison says:

Hi Leonard

The standing rigging will need to be replaced for safety reasons and if you intend to insure the boat. Insurance companies recommend replacing every 10yrs. I replaced mine this year at a cost of about 300, I think. I'll check receipts later. Antifoul 60. Painting about 150 -200.!
As you're lake sailing you may get away with a small 2/3hp engine on a transom bracket, allowing you to seal up the current engine well. Painting with a roller gives an acceptable finish.
The group gave me great advice and support when I was refurbishing Helm's Deep so don't be afraid to ask.
Being an engineer gives you a great head start on most of us.
As Malcolm says break it up into manageable sized jobs so you can measure and appreciate your progress. When its finished selective memory will take care of the tough bits!
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
pjbharrison edited this topic 83 months ago.

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pjbharrison says:

Cabin roof has a balsa core so seal holes after removing fittings before it gets wet
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

I have the name of the man who bought her new,, Email me
o r flickr mail
Shes Spare time I m pretty sure..
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
busy home edited this topic 83 months ago.

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Skykomish E29 says:

mmm I would revise that budget a bit , even doing it all yourself which is easily possible with an engineering background. Paul got off quite light with his figure for standing rigging I seem to remember Aeolus was a lot more. If you are lake sailing you probably won't need a pushpit at the stern, and therefore will not need to replace the stanchions and guard rails so there would be a saving. The interior seat cushions will be quite expensive to replace, though, if you are lucky somebody on here may have some old s/h ones that would get you by.
Providing that you take your time and do it on a nice day hand painting the hull isn't too bad, obviously spraying is better if you have the facilities. Don't even think of antifouling before you are ready to put her in the water as it needs to be applied usually no longer than a month before the hull goes in.
As you already have some experience you know what you are getting into. The Achilles is a great boat and well worth putting the work into, I know that you will find that it becomes compelling, and will easily exceed what you originally think you can make do with.
Good Luck!
83 months ago (permalink)

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blueachilles says:

Sent you a Flickrmail re sails.
83 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

Good news :-) the sails have turned up! The marking on them is "J3", this is on both the main and jib. I'm told that the second last owner raced her out of Rush in Dublin and that the name is on the hull, under the current coat of light blue.
As far as the pushpit and stanchions etc go, they are all there, handrails, everything. All of the pullys, bottle screws etc are all in good condition in a box that was kept indoors :-)

So now we know that she had a navy blue hull, with "J3" on the sails, racing out of Rush.
Also, thanks to those who have offered help with sails, I'm good for now :-)
83 months ago (permalink)

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NormanKlipspringer is a group administrator NormanKlipspringer says:

I don't want to put a dampner on your enthusiasm but a bit of reality might be worth taking into consideration at this point. My first A24 I bought for £3700 and spent £3000 and sold her for £3750 5 years later. My second I bought for £2750 and have spent over £2000. Looking at the pictures of your boat it is in significantly much worse condition than either of mine. Just about everything seams to be non standard and 'fiddled with' or missing. If you are hoping to make money you won't. If you want a decent boat to sail expect to spend the money. Everything can be fixed, but it is often better to start with something a bit near 'ready to go', pay more upfront, and much less afterwards. Sorry to so negative but I have seen many project boats started with great enthusiasm for this to soon run out and the boat abandoned. Having got that off my chest I wish you all the very best with the work and yes please ask if you want help.
PS Look at this boat advertised on the main site www.achillesyachts.co.uk/page71.html as an example of what you can get UNDER £2000!!!
Originally posted 83 months ago. (permalink)
NormanKlipspringer (a group admin) edited this topic 83 months ago.

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Laskinner says:

Thanks for the caution Norman, I learned a long time ago that there is no profit to be had from restoring old boats and cars, that you either do it for the love of it, or not at all.
Fortunately the boat is complete (now that the mainsail has turned up), that is to say, all of the parts are there except the interior. And in my last boat I even hand stiched the cushions myself, having recycled the foam from a sofa :-)
As for the cost, I would rather not say out of courtesy to the seller, and there was some trade involved, but it cost a good deal less than £2000 :-)
Of course, as the weeks go on, I will try to keep track of the costs etc and catalogue as I go... watch this space...
83 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish E29 says:

Gosh Norman that must be the deal of the century! a sad reflection of the times we are living in not so long ago that would have been nearer £3000 +
83 months ago (permalink)

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pjbharrison says:

With Facnor roller reefing, good sails, cruising chute chartplotter and engine it certainly is a bargain. Would owner do better to sell roller reefing and chartplotter separately?
83 months ago (permalink)

busy home [deleted] says:

No,, 17 was the boat show boat london 1970,,
83 months ago (permalink)

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pjbharrison says:

How's the boat coming along?
82 months ago (permalink)

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Laskinner says:

Maybe I should start a new topic detailing the progress?
I have very little done to the boat, but I have the best excusses :-) This time of the year is my busiest time (work wise).
So far I have replaced the 2 axels under the trailer and put 4 road legal tyres on it.
Costs: Materials for axels €27 and the 4 tyres, bought and fitted €30
I have also gotten around to powerwashing the deck and hull and will get photo's up today if the rain stops :-)
82 months ago (permalink)

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