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Aeolus winter maintenance and upgrade - time quote for tasks

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Vidwatts says:

A number of fixes and improvements are taking place on Aeolus this year - I bought a fine example of the Achilles 24 from Malcolm and I'm keen to keep her well maintained and enhanced.

I recently had a full survey completed which identified a number of repairs and improvements worth making and I also want to fit new instruments. I asked for a quote for the work from a local professional boat repairer as a) I don't have the time and b) I don't have the experience to do it myself.

Below is their time estimate for the work: I thought it may be useful for others to see the estimated time taken for some of these tasks but I'm also interested to hear any comments or observations on the quote. To my inexperienced mind, the quote seems quite reasonable and I'm sure each task would take me twice as long (at least)...

1. Loose Stanchion - causing water ingress to hull
- Remove stanchion. Remove all broken "glass and previous repair materials. Form a bund around area to be repaired and form new socket to accept stanchion base. Fair to shape and finish in pigmented epoxy. Replace stanchion.
Time = 4.5hrs.

2. Fit new instruments:
a) Nasa Wind.
- Drop mast. Run two "pull through " halyards. Fit Wind instrument to top of mast and pull through cable. Check all rigging etc at top of mast whilst down. Remove port side interior deck head cladding. Fit new watertight cable gland at foot of mast. Feed cable to port side of hatch vertical panel. Cut appriopriate holes to accept instrument panels,mount and wire in to existing power supply at interior side.

b)Nasa clipper duet.
- Drill hole through hull to take speed transducer. Fit transducer gland sealed with Sika sealant. Fit transducer and run wires to instrument panel.Electrics as per Wind. Raise mast and check all rigging tensions and adjust as required.Replace head linings.
Time =12hrs.

3. Main keel bolts (the two central ones have corroded and the steel plate is delaminating - this is not an urgent task but being done now rather than putting off till later).
- Cut away old corroded keel bolts to spreader plate and remove all. - Drill and tap new holes to accept new bolts. Supply and fit new spreader plate and bolts as per previous pattern in stainless steel.
- Supply and fit a new zinc sacrificial anode to keel and reconnect bonding wire as suggested in survey.
Time =16hrs

4. Bilge keels (damaged sustained from drying out on riverbed detritus).
- Cut away any loose fibreglass structure ,abrade rest of keels to a hight above all damaged areas to form a key for a new lay up of woven rovings and resin. encapsulate whole repaired area in severall coats fo resin to suit. Supply and fit two new stainless steel landing plates as per survey suggestion. Finish all in two coats of pigmented epoxy.
Time =16hrs

5. Engine well plug and outboard mounting (the plug has never fitted properly).There are three items to be attended to here. The actual well. The plug and the outboard carrier insert.
- Adjust all surfaces to fit each other (once `glassed and epoxied) - Carry out suitable `glass and epoxy repair, exstensive to outboard carrier, and refit.
Time =8hrs

6. Rudder skeg cracks.
Thes are cracks in a "plasic padding" repair carried out previously.
- Grind away old repair material to ascertain the damaged area. Dish grind the area to accept woven rovings to previously unrepaired `glass. Re-`glass and fair of. Finish in pigmented epoxy.
Time = 8hrs

7. Push pit (slightly wobbly)
- Remove all fixings and lift push-pit. Carry out repairs to fixing points as required . Reseal and refit.
Time = 3hrs.

Total 67.5 hrs.

At £19.50 per hour for labour, plus around £150 for materials, it comes to £1500, which doesn't seem too bad to me. I know I'd be unlikely to get that back if I sold her, but I'm planning on many sailing seasons to come in her :-)
Originally posted at 3:27PM, 9 December 2010 PDT (permalink)
Vidwatts edited this topic 105 months ago.

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Andrew Curry says:

Just a word of warning when it comes to NASA log skin fittings the plastic they are make of reacts with sika sealant as i found out when my skin fitting cracked. It’s also essential that the fitting is also glassed inside the boat to give extra strength.

This has been taken from the NASA fitting instructions.

With the vessel out of water, drill a hole of 42mm diameter
through the hull to take the paddle housing and use
conventional methods for sealing. It is advisable to avoid the use
of mastic materials - use a form of proprietary silicon sealant.
Originally posted 105 months ago. (permalink)
Andrew Curry edited this topic 105 months ago.

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Amrum 9171Y says:

It doesn't sound too bad to me, either. To keep Aeolus in a good state of repair and ready for what the Thames will throw at her, it looks well worthwhile, particularly as you intend to keep her, and have no time yourself. Any boat costs money, and at least with an Achilles there isn't much room for depreciation. Snifter cost me £4k 2 years ago, and came with bills for £3k from the previous owner, which was about 2/3rds materials, although he had done some of the work himself. Apart from a 2nd hand 3.5hp Tohatsu for racing (its lighter to lift out and put below than the 5hp Honda), new Crusader main and jib, and a 2nd hand spinnaker, the only costs have been paint and antifouling, and a lot of my time. I reckon on a few hundred per year for repairs and replacements (new standing rigging is next on the list), and I do get a lot of hours of pleasure each year from the investment.
I went for a sail this morning - beautiful, 7C, sun and a force 2/3. Can't wait for the race on Sunday!
105 months ago (permalink)

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Scott and Portia1386 says:

I agree I have had Portia for just over two years and plan to spend about £200-£300 a year on repairs etc. Her previous owner had done a lot of work to her and much of what has to be done is routine maintenance. I do it myself and while it may not of the same a standard as some of the work you see I quite pleased with it. The biggest cost to date has been getting the new mooring maintained but after I don’t except to pay much more than further £150 year for the next couple of years. Add to that £110 for the communal Holy Loch Sailing Club lift in and out and the lot comes to less than £600 you could not play golf for that.
105 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish E29 says:

I am not sure about S/S keel bolts this tends to lead to a false sense of security, If you look at the others on here the Steel ones have lasted 40 years and are made from Whitworth studding which is relatively cheap

Neil will probably be able to advise more on the corrosion risk of S/S bolts in Iron keel.

Also Aeolus has never had an anode on the Keel not sure if this is a needless expense as once on it will need replacing. Whereas after 2 years in the water she only really has surface rust. It was something that I considered but felt wasn't worth the expense. It will also add an element of drag.

The repair in the skeg was done with marine epoxy, I believe that the previous owner may have damaged it from a mild impact. It probably needed grinding right back and fibreglassing over to give added strength, but the marine epoxy has lasted over 4 years by the looks of it.

The hourly rate is pretty cheap in comparison to Conyer who charge £40.

Nice to see that all those little jobs that I never got around to doing are finally going to get sorted
Originally posted 105 months ago. (permalink)
Skykomish E29 edited this topic 105 months ago.

busy home [deleted] says:

Drill and tap for new keel bolts?? Dont like the sound of that...
I have studding and nuts to fit original threads if required.
I would not put s/s below waterline anyway.
Hourly rate seems ok
but ive just decided to value Goskar @ £10000000000000000
105 months ago (permalink)

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Skykomish E29 says:

I agree with you Ron, much better to try and remove the old ones, besides it is going to take a lot of cutting to get through the old bolts and all those sparks piercing the grp and then rusting later will make a terrible mess.
105 months ago (permalink)

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rothwell_neil says:

So far all the bolts removed from Achilles seem to be in good condition in the thread area and that is where it counts. I would never mix stainless and steel as the steel will be driven just like an anode of aluminium is. Sacrificial protection of stainless bolts that already seem to be happy surviving 30+ years as carbon steel doesn't sound good to me. The whole carbon steel corrosion process will protect the inner threads from corrosion so shouldn't need to retap. Best to keep the water out by sealing all deck fittings and to paint the exposed threads and nuts when you put it back.

After having a dry boat for 2 years have just had to reseal the horse again. This must be the biggest culprit in leaks.
105 months ago (permalink)

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Vidwatts says:

Thanks for your comments.

Interested in your thoughts on the keel bolts - the steel plate is delaminating quite significantly and I think the surveyor was concerned that the corrosion was affecting the two central keel bolts that are in contact with it.

I've uploaded some new photos of their condition - expert advice appreciated!

I wasn't sure about the anode either - I've painted the keel with red oxide and there really wasn't much rust on it when she came out recently. I could always use a racing anode, ie one that hangs over the side when she's on the mooring and see how that works?
Originally posted 105 months ago. (permalink)
Vidwatts edited this topic 105 months ago.

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rothwell_neil says:

Corrosion of carbon steel always looks worse than it is. However the steel plate spreads the load and I can see why the surveyor wants it replaced. If it is only de laminated away from the bolts then I wouldn't be as concerned as after all it spreads the load and if not delaminated under the bolt shouldn't affect its ability to hold the keel on.

At worse I would look to change the plate and if bad then the bolts, you may find that the threads where the nut is and in the keel will be fine and as this is what holds the keel and nut you may not have to replace. Steel corrosion is only ever where it is exposed to the air and not down crevices like stainless steel.

Don't go with stainless steel as a false improvement. This would drive corrosion of any carbon steel such as the plate and the keel if exposed. The keel shouldn't be affected but the replacement plate will corrode at a rate that will surprise you and it will be worse around the bolt/nut. If you put it all back nice and shiny then red lead, epoxy or any normal metal paint works. A base layer of zinc rich is better still with a top coat or two of 2 pack epoxy.

The best remedy is to stop it getting wet, when Emily is pushed hard in a bit of weather we get water down below. When this is mopped up Emily stays lovely and dry as ALL the deck fittings have been reseated and sealed. I used Sikaflex on these the first time but after 3 years the stay ubolts and the horse leaked again. This time I took the recommendation of the window man and used butyl rubber mastic from a window shop. This stuff films on the surface but stays flexible and never sets below the surface. Also unlike sikaflex the tube stays usable as it does what it says on the can and doesn't set under the surface, stick a nail in the end and perfect next time you want to use it.

An anode is of no use inside if it stays dry and will not work for outside if inside. Trailing an anode will work for the keel if it is in direct electrical contact with the keel through the keel bolts. This only works when trailing and is wasted the rest of the time unless you leave it hanging out at all times? An anode bolted on the outside of the keel will work and if used with a good paint coating system, zinc rich and epoxy top coat will last for ever as it will only dissolve to protect any defect in the paint. No defect and as good as new for a long time. Back to bare metal and base coat and then couple of top coats of epoxy seems to work quite well for a few years. I haven't bothered with an anode as the painting is working.
Originally posted 105 months ago. (permalink)
rothwell_neil edited this topic 105 months ago.

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Skykomish E29 says:

Thanks Neil that was along the lines of my thinking after having considered the same points when I had her.
The electrical connection to the keel bolts is by way of lightening protection as it connects to the shroud bolts, however you could in turn connect your trailing anode to the shrouds if you stilll felt concerned.
I gave it a coat of red oxide and a couple of primacon when she was last out of the water back in early 2009. So it has lasted well considering the scouring she gets settling on the gravel in the Thames.
105 months ago (permalink)

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