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kenneth barton PRO 3:51am, 13 June 2008
I like to load my PDX Strobist Meet-Up Shots in a single grouping so I've been waiting all this time until I had them done. Now the damned thing won't let me load more than three per day. Since when has that been a rule? I prefer not to have them all spread out.

-ken
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metakephoto PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by metakephoto (admin) 10 years ago
I switched it to 3 per day about a week ago as a test. I'd prefer to keep the posting to unlimited, but some people were abusing it.

I'm fine if you want to switch it back. Actually I'll do it right now....But i'd like for people to give us their opinion about posting rules.

Do you think there should be guidelines for posting in this group?
And then if we can come to a general agreement, i'll put these new rules on the main page as posting guidelines.
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OregonVelo Posted 10 years ago. Edited by OregonVelo (admin) 10 years ago
I think this makes for a great discussion. I didn't know there was a limit but I can see why there might be.

Pros for a limit - This group doesn't need to be a dumping place for someone to drop everything in the photostream in one wholesale shot. Second, we don't need someone dumping 20 shots of virtually the same image is one shot either.

Cons for a limit - people that don't abuse the system but want to drop their shots from a meetup at one time.

If we were to have a limit, I could see it around 15 a day. I don't believe anyone has posted more than that of a meetup.
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coupeowner 10 years ago
I'm all for a limit. Three seems a bit low, but I can see 5-10 being good. Makes people present the best of the best (what I usually want to see), as opposed to the also-rans. If I want to see more, I can just go to their photostream.
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LukeOlsen PRO 10 years ago
In my opinion it would almost be beneficial to have a separate group for behind the scenes shots with unlimited uploads while having limits on the main group with lighting info (like the main strobist group). As far as a limit is concerned I would even take it to 5 per day.
Whoowl 10 years ago
I think 5 per day is fair, and I like how it makes sure our photostream is mixed up with different people's stuff. Without the limits there was abuse happening and our "top contributors" and photostream were not representative of the active members of the group.

We also need to be careful of "Google Bombing" where people post as many of their pictures as they can in many groups, with each image having a link to their website. This makes it so google sees more links to their website and gives them a better "PageRank". This sort of abuse does not add to our group and doesn't bring focus to learning and sharing.
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kenneth barton PRO 10 years ago
Obviously I'm against the limit because I like posts from a meet (maybe 10-15 shots for me) to be in a gourp rather than spread out. It has worked well in the past, so I don't know why it should be changed.

PhotoInference,
I'm moderately against a separate group simply because it adds complexity and my photo and on-line time is limited. Still I would use it if it existed because for me it's post them as a group or not at all.

Coupeowner,
Hopefully we should have the discipline to post the "best of the best."

Whoow,
As for "googlebombing" those of us with administrative authority can simply delete pictures by anyone involved in such abuse.

-ken
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OregonVelo 10 years ago
I would perfer not to have another group. I like the idea of this grouping being everything PDXStrobist. I don't like how the Seattle one is broken up; some of the breakups of the main Stobist group have been good, but some have been bad.
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LukeOlsen PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by LukeOlsen (admin) 10 years ago
While I too don't like to have things all spread out, I do like how the main strobist group only allows shots with off-camera lighting info. The other group is a compromise idea I was just throwing out there. I do think a max. limit is important so that others get a chance to show their stuff. I really don't want to add complexity to this process either. Another way to accomplish this is to make a SET in your photostream for the strobist event, post a few shots with links back to the set. That way they are kept together in your stream but broken up in PDXStrobist.
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metakephoto PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by metakephoto (admin) 10 years ago
My opinion is to keep the posting limit set to "unlmited" and we just moderate the group if things get out of hand. Also as a common guideline that if your posting "behind the scene" shots from the meetups that you dont have to put lighting info, but everything else we should strongly encourage that people put there lighting info (just like the main strobist flickr group)

I think having guidlelines posted on the main page will help alot.
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LukeOlsen PRO 10 years ago
So what about the person who posts a single shot from a strobist meet and then consequentially gets buried under a 20+ image behind the scenes tour de force? Obviously it applies but still...
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coupeowner 10 years ago
I think anything over 10 or so images at one time is "out of hand". And with a posting limit it keeps it easier, and less confrontational for the moderators. Frankly, I don't want to see more than 10 images from any one person from a single shoot (except Kenneth of course ;^). As Whoowl mentioned, it keeps the stream mixed up and interesting.

I think the strobist info should be required, and agree with the "behind the scene" exception. I don't think we need another site for those, as I think they fit in with what we are doing on this site- except of course when they catch me - those should be banned.
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kenneth barton PRO 10 years ago
Well that's the other thing. I didn't take a single actual strobe shot at the last meet. I plan to do the opposite at the next meet though, especially considering the planning works out better for someone whose strobes aren't portable like me.

I went ahead and pulled my shots out of the group, but I'll go ahead and load them to the website for the models as soon as I can. They can also be seen in my PDX Strobist set.

-ken
Aaron Audio 10 years ago
I think the problem is that one guy who dropped like 50 images in last week. Everybody else seem to monitor their upload happy finger pretty well. I think unlim is the way to go as long as its not too much trouble for the admins to pull shots when they are uploaded in excess.
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coupeowner 10 years ago
How about if any shots from our meets are ok (not just strobist). I enjoy seeing all of the shots from our meets, not just the strobe shots. And I certainly didn't mean for Ken to pull his (hadn't even noticed his were not strobified). I do think the day-to-day shots should keep to the strobist theme though. There are plenty of sites for the general, non-strobist stuff.
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OregonVelo 10 years ago
I agree with coupeowner.
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LukeOlsen PRO 10 years ago
I agree with coupeowner also and didn't want Ken to pull his images from the group especially since we really havent come to terms on how strict we should be in relation to the main strobist group. I think we all agree that this should be a place to learn and share.

I'm just afraid that without some guidelines that image(s) might just be axed based on the whim of whatever admin happens to be looking at the time.
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kenneth barton PRO 10 years ago
Here are the “rules” I’ve been operating under since our first meeting in December. The PDX Strobist group is for strobe/flash images only except for those taken during the actual strobist meets, the reason being that I and others don’t always use strobes at the meets but we are all interested in sharing what we’ve done and how we did it within the context of our group.

One should not abuse our system by “overposting”, which I would define as posting many versions of essentially the same image or set-up. There is a photographer who I shall not name, and who does not show up at our meets, who tends to post a dozen versions or more of the same shot, re-tones them, and then posts them all over again. If somebody abuses the site, then one of us should chat with that person about it.

It’s not like those of us who prefer groupings overpost on a daily basis, we just like to wait until a set of images is ready and post them at that time.

It’s more pleasant for the viewer when people post related images in a group because there is some context and they can be more easily viewed.

-ken
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metakephoto PRO 10 years ago
@kenneth barton: sounds good to me
Jason Marlow 10 years ago
growing pains. trials and tribulations, what ever the admin decides on, i am still forever grateful for the hard work, you put into the pdxstrobist. it won't change my participation. thank you guys for all your efforts.
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kenneth barton PRO 10 years ago
OK I just loaded my 17 images. I also noticed I'm the leading contributor to this album with 142 images so far. Yikes, now I'm feeling all self conscious.

-ken
The MotoLady PRO 10 years ago
I want to say I think that it's perfectly fine to submit a number of photos from every shoot IF the lighting moved around and if it shows significantly different effects with the same lighting.

And you guys should define dumping.

I put something like 50 images into the pool at once. I did this simply because I had neglected to do it for the last 6 months. So I went through and picked all those I thought useful to people trying to learn about lighting, put correct lighting info on them, and then uploaded them.

The next day I was told how bad I was because I "dumped" photos into the pool.

I understand the point of not "dumping", but I just wanted to "catch up" and share our lighting and work. I don't at all feel like what I did was dumping, but another admin did think so.

Point being:

Sometimes people have reasons for adding more than 2 images a day.
Sometimes people want to catch up.

You should just specify in the rules what you're actually going for.

Example:

No more than 4 images from one shoot
No more than 2 shoots submitted in one day

But then I think that should apply to the meet ups just as much as the rest of us posters. For instance... you could just have a thread opened for linking to sets for strobist meet ups, so that stuff doesn't "clog" up the pool, either.
thinkable straw [deleted] 10 years ago
I think a limit of 5-10 a day would be fine. I rarely see anyone 'dump' a whole bunch of images all at once.
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metakephoto PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by metakephoto (admin) 10 years ago
@Ms.Antiorder: From what i remember the only thing that was off in your 50+ posting was that 10 or so out of the 50 were basically the exact same shot with just a slight change in the models expression or pose. And I completely understand that its a touchy subject (especially since there were no guidelines posted) but hopefully in the future we can define and post a more clear outlook of what we expect in the postings. So far there hasnt been any problem and hopefully it'll continue to be that way.

@kenneth barton: your two recent posting on the group are exactly what i was talking about in the above comment. There's no reason to put 2 of the same exact shot up (the only thing different in your shots are the models facial expression or head tilt)

Example 1
www.flickr.com/photos/kennethbarton/2582408839/in/pool-pd...
www.flickr.com/photos/kennethbarton/2582408843/in/pool-pd...

Example 2
www.flickr.com/photos/kennethbarton/2578726083/in/pool-pd...
www.flickr.com/photos/kennethbarton/2578726071/in/pool-pd...

Example 3
www.flickr.com/photos/kennethbarton/2574786128/in/pool-pd...
www.flickr.com/photos/kennethbarton/2574786134/in/pool-pd...
The MotoLady PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by The MotoLady (member) 10 years ago
Metakephoto - I don't agree. Seeing as I went through every photo and wrote up every lighting info note... I remember relatively clearly about which photos were chosen. The lighting either varied or the effect had from the lighting changed. I posted no more than 5 photos from each session (ex: gasoline glamour shoot posted 15 total, but there were three different models). The only reason this is a touchy subject for me is because I spent 5 hours doing it all to have them removed.

Overall, it doesn't really matter anymore because what happened to me has already happened, but I wanted to bring it up so I can make the aforementioned points (in my last comment).
The MotoLady PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by The MotoLady (member) 10 years ago
Which brings me to another point and question.

Isn't the point of this group to share lighting info and techniques? Why do some images posted to the pool lack lighting information?

I see this all the time and it's kind of annoying seeing as there is little to learn from a lack of explanation.
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metakephoto PRO 10 years ago
@Ms.Antiorder: thanks for taking the time on putting in the lighting information for each of the shots. And "yes" there is a problem with some of the members not doing this (i just thumbed through a couple pages back and found 2 instances, in which i've e-mailed asking to please put lighting info on shots you've posted on the pdx strobist group)

Here's some examples from your Gasoline Photoshoot that there's really no need to post both images in the group because they are so similar (and i believe these might have been in the group until they were pulled, but i didnt do the pulling ,so i'm not 100% if they were or not....but they did have lighting info on them :)

Example 1
www.flickr.com/photos/antiorder/2077187986/in/set-7215760...
www.flickr.com/photos/antiorder/2024379695/in/set-7215760...

Example 2
www.flickr.com/photos/antiorder/2024932434/in/set-7215760...
www.flickr.com/photos/antiorder/2024652812/in/set-7215760...
The MotoLady PRO 10 years ago
Yeah no I can understand that. I don't however believe I put doubles like that into the group, so I suppose it's all speculation, eh?
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metakephoto PRO Posted 10 years ago. Edited by metakephoto (admin) 10 years ago
@Ms.Antiorder: Like you said in another post "Overall, it doesn't really matter anymore because what happened to me has already happened, but I wanted to bring it up so I can make the aforementioned points"

- Hopefully the posting guidelines will be a little more clear in the future for everyone, even myself....And it'll probably take a couple weeks to hammer out all the details/specifics, but i think it'll all be for the best...
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coupeowner Posted 10 years ago. Edited by metakephoto (admin) 10 years ago
To everyone. Please know that the moderators are not trying to step on any toes, or keep anybody from posting. The group is growing and we are just trying to make this a good experience for all. None of the moderators have any experience with this, and frankly we are learning as we are going. Each meetup has had a large learning curve. If you check out what the Seattle group has been going through, I feel like we are doing a decent job so far. MeTakePhoto has put a ton of effort into the group, and through his leadership we have avoided many of the pitfalls that the Seattle group has experienced recently. Fortunately we are learning from their mistakes, as well as ours. Nothing is set in stone, and all input is welcome. I agree w/ Ms. Antiorder that we need to clarify the posting guidelines. We will work on that one.
admin
LukeOlsen PRO 10 years ago
So... to distill this down. Correct me if this is wrong.

You can post as many shots to the group following the conditions below.

a) Shots must differ in ways that make them unique.

b) Shots must either follow the main Strobist group rules which is off-camera flash and posted lighting information OR can be behind the scenes meet-up or setup shots. The latter two being shots that should should have a documentary style that would either offer an explanation of the event or of the process.
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OregonVelo 10 years ago
Luke, I think that sums it up nicely.
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kenneth barton PRO 10 years ago
To some extent I feel Ms. Antiorder's pain. Her work is usually of a very high quality and I enjoy looking at it. Their must be a fair amount of pride in work that good ( Kenneth Benjamin Reed's too).

To me, dumping is when the shots are all the same, though I understnd the frustration of those who had posted their shots just before she did her big post.

As Metakephoto pointed out, I do sometimes post pairs when I feel they look good side-by-side or show another side of the model's personality, but those pairs are usually chosen out six or eight fully processed shots, most of which I don't even post to Flickr at all to avoid too much repitition on my own page. I like to give my models lots of options on their discs without boring my friends on Flickr.

Anyway, I'm going to continue to post as I have in the past as it seems in rough agreement with most of what's been said here (see 14 comments above), but I will in the future be more careful to mention my lighting info and technique.

By the way, I had a great time with you all at Collins Beach yesterday and I learned a few new tricks.

-ken
Whoowl 10 years ago
I would suggest we have the rule that captions should not contain links to other sites, unless it is for some purpose other than just driving traffic to their site. Putting the name of the site is fine, just not active HTML links.

This would make sure that our pool is NOT used as a way to generate lots of links back to a websites in order to push up their website's ranking in search engines.

Let's keeps our pool a place to learn from and not just a place to try and promote your work without contributing to the group.
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