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Hambone Lewinski 5:27pm, 21 November 2008
Who would like to do a Cyanotype workshop?

Cyanotype is a style of monochrome contact printing that has been around for ~150 years. It results in a distinct blue print that you expose in the sunlight and "develop" in water.

In this modern age of the computer-a-tron, we can make a negative digitally and print it on transparency paper. Digital photographers can, therefore, make these distinctive prints without needing access to any darkroom equipment.

Stuff We''ll Need
Chemicals
Enough watercolor paper for the group
Transparency paper
Two 8x10 sheets of glass per person
A location
Water
Time

I have a laser printer, so I will gladly print our contact negatives. You will have to BYO Glass.

This stuff costs some money, but not a lot. If there are enough folks interested, I'll price it out and see what the cost per person would be. It shouldn't be more than a couple bucks, and I would totally cover it myself if I wasn't dirt poor.

Please respond to this thread to express your interest.

Here are some cyanotype examples:
www.alternativephotography.com/gall_cyanotypes.html

Jason
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(1 to 100 of 108 replies)
admin
HBRstudios 10 years ago
I'll be in
admin
JustinSinks 10 years ago
i guess Ill through my hat into the ring.
noxious kettle [deleted] 10 years ago
i've always wondered what it would look like with an actual large-format negative stuck on top of the coated paper.
admin
HBRstudios 10 years ago
By the way, I have a number of sheets of 20x24 glass I could bring to the show.
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JustinSinks 10 years ago
is this just normal glass?
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Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
Yes. Just to press your negative flat up against the paper, and it can go back to doing whatever it was before when we're done making prints. You can probably grab the glass off of two 8x10 frames. Should have any dust, marks or glass, as these can show up on your prints.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
Alex,

Do you shoot LF? If not, I'll try to rustle up a decent 4x5 (I'm still pretty new to it) negative that we can print between now and then.

Is anybody else interested? I'm going to bump this a couple times this weekend and then try to pick a date early next week.

Jason
noxious kettle [deleted] Posted 10 years ago. Edited by noxious kettle (member) 10 years ago
no. one of those "goals" i've set for myself though (shooting large format). the closest i've got is using a scanned 35mm negative of hp5+ 400 to make a cyanotype. its probably my favorite print though. would be interested to see what it would look like using a 4x5 negative though.
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Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
So, the only folks interested are:

1) Me
2) Alex
3) Brian
4) Justin

Really? I'm going to start sending out nagging flickr mails.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
I would like to order larger volumes of chemicals because I have in interest in doing more cyanotypes after we're done with the workshop and one of the chemicals is used in another process that I use. So I will cover the cost of chemicals above $19.95 (a 50 print cyanotype kit) and be sure to cover whatever I add to the shipping.

Rachel tells me that cheap watercolor paper can be had for $2 a book.

Does anyone know where and how much cheap laser printer transparencies are?

Jason
noxious kettle [deleted] 10 years ago
i think the transparencies work out to be about $1-ish a sheet. they sell them at the umd bookstore.
fallfaceforward 10 years ago
sorry jason, your nagging email didn't work on me. i'm going to pass. i currently don't have the money or time to invest in anything new.
MOD
Karl W. 10 years ago
When are you thinking of doing this?

I'm pretty busy until this semester of class is over. So if it's after the 20th of Dec. I could probably participate.
noxious kettle [deleted] 10 years ago
word. i'm extremely busy as well until the semesters up, then staying at my parents for christmas break to work.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
During Christmas Break is a swell time, as far as I'm concerned! When exactly are you guys off?

Jason
tina_p0608 10 years ago
If it is over christmas Break into Jan sometime, Yes Jason just for you I would love to do it.
Thanks for sending me the Flickt message.
I have a some good pics that I would like to print.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
OK.

Me
Alex
Tina
Karl
Brian
Justin

This is a good group size!

Lets start talking about WHEN we will do this. Am I correct in thinking that spring break runs from the 22nd to the 9th or 16th? What's a good day for everyone in there?

Jason
MOD
Karl W. 10 years ago
I think umd is Dec. 20th - Jan 25th off or something?
noxious kettle [deleted] 10 years ago
UMD gets exactly a month off. dec. 20th-jan. 20th. community colleges differ if anyone goes to one. after this semester i will probably have some paper and possibly some negative transparencies left over.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
OK, let's narrow it down:

Do you guys prefer to go before or after the new year?

Jason
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JustinSinks 10 years ago
If im correct, spring break is more in the March time frame...

As long as its after the 12 of Dec I dont care.
tina_p0608 10 years ago
I would like to do it after the New year. Im working a lot before that.
And school starts back up for me on Jan 15-- which sucks.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
I'm off work the 31st thru the 4th, is there a date in there that works for everybody?

Jason
MOD
Karl W. 10 years ago
Jan 2nd 3rd or 4th?
tina_p0608 10 years ago
I will check my work schedule and get back to you. Im sure one of those dates will work.
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Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
OK, we're down to January 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Tell me if you're available or unavailable at any of those times. You can reply here or msg me.

Me: Any
Karl: Any
Tina: Any
Justin: ???
Alex: ???
HBR: ???

Jason
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Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
We're going on January 3rd. I need a final confirmation from everyone who is interested because I have to figure the cost of all this stuff.

Jason
admin
HBRstudios 10 years ago
Good
admin
N. Lindstrom Photo 10 years ago
Morning, Afternoon, or Evening?

Also, how hard would it be to do on our own afterwords?
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
1) Afternoon. I sleep in the morning, but we need sun.

2) Easy as pie.

Jason
admin
N. Lindstrom Photo 10 years ago
Cool, Im in.
admin
JustinSinks 10 years ago
in
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Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
Alex is going to hook us up with transparency paper and watercolor paper to print on, so we just have to cover the chemicals, now. Thanks Alex!

Jason
MOD
Karl W. 10 years ago
in
tina_p0608 10 years ago
Sounds great!
tina_p0608 10 years ago
Just let me know what time and what I need to bring.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
One more nag, and then I'm going to price out the chemicals for our group. It looks like it will be ~$5/person -- since Alex is contributing films and paper (which are quite pricy) I'm not going to ask him to pitch in.

1) How does 1 o'clock sound to everyone?

2) If you can find a small, dark, tightly-sealed contain and you want to bring some home, we should have more than enough sensitizing agent for everyone to do a few more prints on their own. Plus, the chemicals are pretty cheap to order more if you find that you really like the process.

3) My place is cramped and has lots of natural light. If anyone wants to contribute a space, that would be really cool. If not, we may be coating paper on the floor of my mildew-y basement.

4) I will print negatives of everyones' images, but that means that you'll need to provide a monochrome image to print. Please don't send me a color image -- take the time to desaturate it first.

Jason
admin
HBRstudios Posted 10 years ago. Edited by HBRstudios (admin) 10 years ago
I am going to make up a "homemade" concoction from supplies in the chem lab as well and bring it for comparison purposes. Plus I wan to try toning with coffee.

Yes, I will dish out the $5 as well.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
"I am going to make up a "homemade" concoction from supplies in the chem lab as well and bring it for comparison purposes. Plus I wan to try toning with coffee."

I'm ordering raw chemicals and mixing the sensitizer for scratch as well.

We will be using the "classic" Ammonium Iron Citrate process rather than the "new" Ammonium Iron Oxalate process. While the Oxalate process is faster and has better tonal range, Ammonium Iron Oxalate is far more toxic than Ammonium Iron Citrate and I am not confident that I can maintain my typically high level of darkroom chemical safety that I do alone in a group workshop setting.

Jason
tina_p0608 10 years ago
Jason,
Everything sounds great.
I have no problem pitching in $5.

Should I email you what I want to print?
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
Tina,

Yep, with enough resolution to do an 8x10. If you don't have my E-Mail, send me a flickrmail and I'll tell you what it s.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
Hey,

If you're going to be at the thing for the show Weds. and you're going to play Cyanotype, I would appreciate it if you would bring me a fiver. I'm going to order chemicals today or tomorrow.

Jason
admin
N. Lindstrom Photo 10 years ago
Word up.
tina_p0608 10 years ago
Is there a meeting on wednesday that I forgot about?
I forget about everything. School is eating my brain.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 10 years ago
"School is eating my brain."

School == Zombie?

For people in the Beaners show.

Jason
admin
HBRstudios Posted 10 years ago. Edited by HBRstudios (admin) 10 years ago
I'm going for maximum toxicity in my mixture:

Ammonium Iron(III) Oxalate and Potassium Ferricyanide

(no, they really aren't that dangerous, just don't drink it or let it sit on your hands for any length of time.)

I am throwing in a little ammonium dichromate as well, but it is a weak solution of it.
admin
Hambone Lewinski Posted 10 years ago. Edited by Hambone Lewinski (admin) 10 years ago
Ohhh, you're making a frankenstein! What will the dichromate do?

I'm planning on using Cyanotype as my cyan layer in tri-color bichromate prints in the future.

Jason
admin
HBRstudios 10 years ago
The ammonium dichromate (from what I understand) will reduce the formation of impurities and increase the shelf-life to nearly forever.
admin
JustinSinks 9 years ago
Bump!
I almost forgot about this, knew something else was coming up...

Jason, how many prints will we do at your place? What sort of photos would work best do you think?
admin
HBRstudios Posted 9 years ago. Edited by HBRstudios (admin) 9 years ago
1) Will the watercolor paper be provided by someone?

2) any chance we can make it earlier than 1:00? Like 10:30?

3) Do you want me to bring my glass?
Becca Wigchers 9 years ago
Is it too late for me to jump in on this?
I think it sounds fantastic.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Brian --

1) I'm going to pick up some WC paper.

2) We can make it earlier if everyone wants to. The sweet spot would be between printing between 11 and 1, so that would be fine by me.

3) EVERYONE MUST BRING THEIR OWN GLASS. In fact, my experiments tell me that you might want to bring two sheets. Just popping the glass from 2 8x10 frames will be fine.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Justin,

Just one print, but if you bring a small container (say, ~100 ml) you can bring home enough sensitizer to make ~a dozen more.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Hambone Lewinski (admin) 9 years ago
Becca,

You're 100% welcome. I would appreciate it if you could contribute $5 to help cover my costs.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Let me remind everyone:

IF YOU'RE COMING, I NEED YOU TO SEND ME A B&W IMAGE TO PRINT.

It needs to be a B&W image big enough to print off an 8x10 negative at 300 DPI.

I haven't received an image from ANYONE. If you don't send me an image, you'll be stuck picking your nose while everyone else does cool stuff.

Jason
brandonransom 9 years ago
Jason, are you implying that picking your nose is not something cool to do?
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
OK, I will be there between 10:30 and 11:00. I will bring only enough glass to fit my images. I will also bring my mixture to compare.

Thanx for setting all of this up!
Noreeyay 9 years ago
This may be a bit late in the game....did you guys find a place to do this yet? I'm a bit too mentally fried these days to participate but I thought I'd offer up my place to you guys. I've got a really large finished basement w/ tons of free space to use. I live up the north shore. The space is you if ya like, just let me know!
admin
JustinSinks 9 years ago
Does it have to be glass? All my frames seem to have plastic instead...
MOD
Karl W. 9 years ago
I think some of the 8x10 frames at the dollar store are glass, I'm going to to stop by there today and pick up a few more.
admin
JustinSinks 9 years ago
Ah! I forgot about the 8x10s on my wall! I think they are glass...
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Justin,

Does the plastic transmit light? You only need it to hold your negative flat against the paper.

Jason
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Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Soooo... is anyone going to send me any photos to make negatives out of?

Jason
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Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Nora,

How far up the shore do you live?

How do you guys feel 'bout doing this at Nora's place?

Jason
admin
N. Lindstrom Photo 9 years ago
I doubt I can bail that early. I might have to cancel I guess.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Nate,

Time's not written in stone. We said 1 o'clock before, and if people can't come @ 10:30, we'll still do 1 o'clock.

Jason
admin
N. Lindstrom Photo 9 years ago
word up
MOD
Karl W. 9 years ago
I'm good for anytime

"sorry, I'm still trying to pick something to use"
admin
JustinSinks 9 years ago
Ill get you a print today Jason.
And I don't care where. The more room/less mold the better!
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
Any location is just fine with me.
admin
JustinSinks 9 years ago
OK, i didnt see a place where you said an email to send you the photos to, so I uploaded them to flickr...

#1
pills2_8x10_bw

I want to use this one. But if for some reason you dont think it is cool, I have a back up choice:

#2
_MG_5574

Im sure youll make the correct choice :)
admin
N. Lindstrom Photo Posted 9 years ago. Edited by N. Lindstrom Photo (admin) 9 years ago
I have one as well, how do you want it?
For Cyanotype
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Justin,

I think #1 will come out really well. Looks like the one you've uploaded has enough resolution for me to print.

Nate,

Send it to my private E-Mail. jnovek at the gmails. JPEG will be fine.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski Posted 9 years ago. Edited by Hambone Lewinski (admin) 9 years ago
PROBLEM:

There's snow predicted for tomorrow. If it snows tomorrow, we can't go, because Cyanotypes are printed outdoors and take 20 minutes to an hour to print. Heavy overcast (not to mention the prints being covered in snow) would be a bit of a downer as it could take 2 or 3 hours to print.

We will have to play it by ear, but we may have to reschedule.

Jason

P.S. I'll get a flickrmail out to everyone involved if we are on/off tomorrow morning. If you aren't going to have access to the internet, send me your phone # and I'll drop you a line.
tina_p0608 9 years ago
Jason, I was able to get tomorrow off from work. Please just keep us posted on the plans.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Tina,

If we cancel tomorrow, I want to say "sorry" in advance. I hope you didn't have to do anything crazy to get off work. Stupid weather.

Jason
admin
HBRstudios Posted 9 years ago. Edited by HBRstudios (admin) 9 years ago
Test #1 -- start time 11:04 -- direct sunlight, 66 degrees
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
11:09 -- negatives removed. Starting water bath. Not using hydrogen peroxide this time.
admin
HBRstudios Posted 9 years ago. Edited by HBRstudios (admin) 9 years ago
Not long enough exposure, water bath washed out nearly all of the color (tried hydrogen peroxide with no effect). So, need to make exposure much longer. Giving it another try.
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
New test started 11:40, will leave it for 20 minutes.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Brian,

I suspect that you will need 20 to 40 minutes. It will expose MUCH faster outside, too. The window glass blocks a lot of UV (which is what makes Cyanotype do its thing). Think about how much of a tan you get sitting out in the sun versus sitting by a sunny window.

Jason
Noreeyay 9 years ago
I just email Jason directions to my place to send everyone. I'm on Ryan rd off of 61. I'll set up a big work table for you guys and get some chairs rockin.

Just an FYI, I do have a no-tailed cat running around in case anyone is allergic. My hubby is very allergic to cats and doesn't have a prob w/ Osmo. He'll stay out the way too.
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
I left it through the window at 35 minutes this time -- not enough, but much closer.

Round 3 -- 40 minutes outside at 0 degrees F.
Noreeyay 9 years ago
From what I'm reading bout your processing here I guess I should go shovel off the 3.5 feet of snow on my deck for you guys to put these out huh?
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
Well, it actually isn't looking good weather wise to hold it at all so maybe you should hold off on the shoveling.
tina_p0608 9 years ago
No problem Jason, we can always reschedule.

So for the smart ppl like me, can you please post again what we need to bring with us???

And where is this happening at now???


Im so special!!!
tina_p0608 9 years ago
Also, I would love to go earlier like Brian requested. Thanks!
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Brian,

I overexposed one this morning using citrate outdoors @ 40 minutes. Depending on dense your neg is, you may end up with a solid blue print. Of course, if you have any ammonia, it acts as a Cyanotype reducer.

Jason
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
When my 40 minutes were up, I looked outside to see that a tree was shadowing the print! I have no idea how long it was there, but the print turned out fine this time. I will post after it it dry and I scan it.
admin
HBRstudios 9 years ago
The 2 "properly" exposed images on the top and bottom left side are "average" density b/w negatives, the middle on the left is overexposed by about 2 stops. On the right, they are color negatives, which have a brown tint in the emulsion and, as expected, did not work (but would if given a LOT of light, I think.)

Cyanotype-1
admin
JustinSinks 9 years ago
Could we use a "sun" lamp instead?
MOD
Karl W. 9 years ago
or a UV black light?
Noreeyay 9 years ago
My son's got a 3-4ft UV light I could add to the mix if it's useable.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
UV lights are good, but have extremely long printing times. We might be sitting around bored for hours.

Although, a true UV light might be good. Like the kind the use for tanning beds.

Is that what you have, Nora? If so, how many watts of output??

Jason
Noreeyay 9 years ago
It's a Spenser's UV lol. I'll check on that output.
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
Some quick googleage tells me that a black light will work but will take 1 to 2 hours to print using the oxalate chemicals.

Jason
Noreeyay 9 years ago
Output is 36 watts...
admin
JustinSinks 9 years ago
So, all you hippies get your black lights and bring them! If we get enough of them, we will be set!
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
I'm going to back up officially CANCEL for tomorrow.

Why?

I've only received 2 photos to print, I only just got the the transparency paper today and I haven't really made enough cynaotypes that I'm happy with to teach others how to do it. I don't think that this even will be as useful as it could be right now.

On the bright side, (no pun intended) I have a pair of High Intensity Discharge Metal Halide lights that I'm going to try out for this next weekend -- I suspect that they will print a Cyanotype in about 20 minutes. If I can make those work, they will be a much better option for us.

Jason
admin
Hambone Lewinski 9 years ago
So, when do we reschedule for? How does weekend after next (17th and 18th) sound?

Jason
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