I need your help planning my roadtrip through Portgual and Spain (this is a crowdsourced trip)

attacked by monkey; curduroy blazer marred with poo

Nazare. Great cliff beach town.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamsnyder/1381318992/

Drive the rural ocean roads. Stop in Sintra and Obidos. Drink lots of vinho verde.

Skip. Lots of tourists, golf courses and condos. Traffic could be really bad, too

kite surfing capital of Europe from Tarifa to Cadiz.

Put Andés Segovia on your iPod and tour the Alhambra. It was his muse. (And Pepper is right: one of the best sites you will see.)

Skipping Lagos? Highly recommended.

Eat at La Burbuja que Rie in the Latin District. Cider house you will not soon forget.

If you're interested in bullfighting, Sevilla has the most romantic of the plazas del toros. usually held on sunday evenings, though check first.

take the 2 hour (?) ferry from Algeres -> Tangier. have lunch and walk around the market, Bourne Identity-style. try your hardest not to buy a rug:

http://www.teendrama.com/dens/europe/spain2001/day9.html

I need your help planning my roadtrip through Portgual and Spain (this is a crowdsourced trip) by Zach Klein.

This summer I'm going to visit Portugal and Spain. I'm traveling with my girlfriend and two buddies. We have no specific plans but have following conditions:

+ We have 10 days
+ We're flying in and out of Lisbon.
+ We're renting a car and consider this a 'road trip'
+ We're willing to camp some nights
+ We expect this to be a gastronomic experience more than anything else

This maps show a basic circuit I'm planning, however we're quite flexible. If you have any experience with this area, please place notes on the map indicating the location of your suggested stops.

Thanks ahead for your help with this crowd-sourced vacation project.

Update #1, Friday, June 19 at 9:30am

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Comments

[phil h] says:

I think I'd try to fit in Toledo (south of Madrid) - other than that looks like a killer trip! I'm jealous.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

laszlito says:

don´t miss Asturias! well is up in the north but it worth it, Cantabric sea, High Mountains, good gastronomy...
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

tomkrap says:

nice, you're going to Salamanca.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

thincvox says:

i'd def spend less time in the southern parts of spain (not sure why you'd go to gibraltar for instance unless you're heading over to morocco). if you could get up to san sebastian that would be nice and valencia is a cool town. otherwise looks like a great trip, you're gonna have an awesome time! btw do you have any friends in madrid? let me know, i can hook you up with my friend animal who is a blast (he used to run v/vm records en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V/Vm). oh, and you're likely gonna wanna spend some xtra time in lisbon, sevilla and madrid so plan accordingly.
- daniel raffel
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Silus Grok says:

Al Hambra — just outside of Granada (already on your route).

Ronda — just outside of Malaga, also en route. Famous for this view.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Silus Grok says:

Also … just an observation: photo notes don't appear to be enabled. For me, at least.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Pepper Watkins says:

Zach,

I concur with several previous points and add some:

1. The Alhambra should be on the top of your list of sites to visit (and is on your way). You'll never, ever forget it.

2. Gibraltar, while cool, may not be worth your time. It's a very British place, and as such wins points for oddness--and there are monkeys on the top of the rock that will throw excrement at you--but it's not among the most amazing places I saw while there.

3. If you haven't been to Barcelona, it's hard to plan a trip to Spain and not go there; it's one of the best cities in Europe, but certainly stretches the rest of the trip thin. It's a small country, though, and not as far away as it looks. If you don't want to go that far afield, certainly consider the Basque country/San Sebastian/Bilbao.

4. I lived in Valencia for 4 months, and while it was a great city, if Madrid is already on your list, V-city may not be as rewarding an experience.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

kraeutergarten says:

Zach, I would also suggest Valencia, Zaragoza and of course (most important in my opinion) Barcelona.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Zach Klein says:

To all who have commented so far: Thanks! And, I've already visited the Basque and Catalan areas several times already, which is why I'm skipping San Sebastian and Barcelona on this trip...
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

individual8 says:

I've been to a shorter road trip (just Portugal) a few years ago. I loved the area around Aveiro, which was mystic with its salty shoreline, the area north of Porto, with its exotic and outstanding nature and the outskirts of Portugal near Braganca where we met people who supposedly never saw road trip tourists like us before. See my photos tagged with "portugal" for more inspiration.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

benjamillen says:

Be sure to visit Sintra when you are in/around Lisbon. You can make it a day trip, and it is well worthwhile.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

themexican says:

I've travelled everything on your route either by car or bike a couple of times... with 10 days that's lots of driving and not much hanging out... Most of those segments are 6-10 hours...

Probably heretical but I'd skip southern Spain and save Madrid for another trip.

My recommendation would be to spend more time puttering around the back roads of Portugal and up and down the Portuguese coast. Lots to explore there.

Then I'd head up to Galicia along the little windy coast roads (lots of forests and places to camp) and then head back down to Salamanca and across back across to portugal.

Both Spain and Portugal have government run hotels in historical buildings (paradores and pousadas) respectively. These are often very good deals and the building tend to be pretty awesome. Both governments have official websites that let you make bookings but you can also often just show up and grab a cancellation. The opposite of camping but nice places to relax...

Another non camping option is to rent a good farmhouse. This website has a good list:
www.iberianature.com/rural_tourism/rural_tour ism_spain.htm

The problem with doing this is that once you find someplace good you won't want to move.

Interhike has a pretty good guide of Spanish campiing sites...they give you enough info to google and make reservations. Camping spots often fill up so try to reserve in advance...
www.interhike.com/spain/camping.html
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

eqx1979 says:

absolutely try to get to Toledo. If you remember the painting by El Greco of the crazy sky, it's exactly the same still. Very medieval and gothic.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

furilo says:

I would add some more north and less south, as driving in summer with heavy heat might not make the best road trip :)

I would go from Salamanca to León, León - Ponferrada, in Ponferrada visit "Las Médulas" and Villafranca del Bierzo, then go (impressive road along a river with great views) to Orense (great and ultra-cheap tapas & wines zone, very nice city), visit Rivadavia if you time, and then continue to Portugal.

maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&s addr=salaman...

Mail me if you want any info, also if you want to have a caña in Madrid :)
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

kokomokid says:

I suggest including Ronda in your trip; the gorge is beautiful. Ronda was the highlight of a trip I took to the Costa del Sol a few years ago. It only a little out of your way from your indicated route, northwest of Marbella, and about straight west of Malaga.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

lmessy says:

Just a possible lodging destination: www.tarifabeachhouse.com/artists.php
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

ッ Zach Hoeken ッ  says:

awesome!

i'm going to madrid and portugal later this year too.... awesome countries both of them.

i suggest hitting up medialab prado and the matadero in madrid.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

themarkpike says:

Galicia is gorgeous and has delicious food, so I'd definitely try to hit up Santiago de Compostela and A Coruña (maybe to the exclusion of more time spent in Porto). The seafood there is amazing, and there is a strong Celtic cultural influence. This makes for an interesting changeup from some of the other [gastronomic] experiences you'll surely enjoy.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

fredwilson says:

malaga and ronda are my suggestions on the spanish coast

in portugal, the algarve coast is amazing
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Emasoft says:

Great!!
I wanted to put a note for Granada, but it seems I can't.
when you stop in Granada, go and stay in a cave!
granadainfo.com/verea/
you've to book it, but it's a nice experience ;)

the #1 is the best

a crowd sourced trip, what a great idea! I'll keep an eye on these comments
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Brian Kurtzman says:

Matalascanas, Almonte is recommended and right along your route!
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Paul Brady says:

Sagres (37° 0′ 0″ N, 8° 56′ 0″ W) is a tiny cliff town in the southwest corner of Portugal. Not on your route yet, but might be worth a detour for photos like this: www.flickr.com/photos/cgoulao/214207954/
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

frieman76 says:

Make sure to hit Salamanca, great little town outside Madrid, fantastic old library and buildings. And when in Madrid stay at the Westin Palace, right across from the Prado, amazing hotel. The mirrors in the bathroom do that cool, no-fogging-up thing. Always liked that.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

CarlSjogreen says:

Some great local guides to Portugal and Spain here: www.nextstop.com/location/guides/ifFF6ONAweg/ portugal/
www.nextstop.com/location/guides/SKUqTU-bxGQ/ spain/?sort=14
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Worcester says:

Gastronomic experience, eh? If you can somehow find a way to eat at El Bulli in Spain... well sir, you'd be a king of kings.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

bunz says:

miss fischinger made me noticing this... so, let's see:

when you are in Lisbon i can - besides a trip with the old tram number 28 - definitely recommend to visit the "Alfama" part of the center and just get lost there with no plan in all the tiny old narrow alleys there, hearing Fado sounds, eating fresh fish...

Make sure you have some Pasteis de Belém, near the Palace of Belém... okay, its a touristic spot cause the story of those yummy little cakes that you eat warm and with sugar and cinnamon is spread around the world, so usually you might have a long queue there... but its worth to wait... promise.

Something maybe for Courtney: Just one week ago I found this vintage store... there's a cosy café included and they have cute dresses from the last decades ;)

www.aoutrafacedalua.com/cafe.html

A little bit more southern from Lisbon on the way to Algarve there is a nice town called Porto Covo ... the Atlantic cliffs and beaches are a fantastic place for sea lovers and surfers, and the town is small and cute... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porto_Covo
There at the Restaurant Marques they have deliscious food... I recommend the fish soup, and something that looks like this

(don't know the name) it's a mix of garlic, mayonnaise, onions, eggs, mustard and the"meat" of crab, all mixed together and served in a shell of the crab... this together with crunchy warm garlic bread.. it's like heaven...

haven't been much at Algarve, only Lagos and Albufeira.. the cities are quite crowded with tourists.. mainly red skinned british and german people. So besides some little down town charme and a marina they didnt have much to offer in my opinion... I'd save that time to explore more of Lisbon... Lisbon by the way has a lot of nice designed metro stations... so if you are into that just buy a day ticket and jump between green line, blue line, yellow line and red line

www.hot-maps.de//images/lisboa_metro_map.gif

Also a nice place to visit is Sintra, in the north above Lisbon. There they say you'd have the most western spot in Europe, which makes you being closest to NY then ;) make sure you see the woods around the old castle...they look mystical like in a fairytale...

Coimbra is worth to see as a city too.. even though its quite old and somehow forgotten. many houses seem to fall apart every second. It's nice to climb up that hill and visit the university. I also liked those simple churches, built around 12th century. (Don't do the boat trip... its not worth it. They only go a small distance from one bridge to the other one.. no "trip".)

In Coimbra I stayed in a very cosy hostel last year, it was an old mansion, with nice people barbequeing in the garden... friendly, and colourful... big kitchen to meet people from around the world. Flat sharing atmosphere...

check yourself.... www.hostelworld.com/hosteldetails.php/Grande- Hostel-de-Co...

One last thing: In Portugal you pay for using the streets.. at least for the big motorways and the brigdes (Lisbon)... I wasn't used to this as a German... don't know how this is handled in the U.S. So usually when you leave the cities via the highways you get a ticket and on leaving after a several distance it has big gates where you pay the fee depending on how long the distance was.

So far about my portugal tipps... can't say much about spain, sorry.

Enjoy your trip... boa viagem para vós ;) ...
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

kafarber says:

maybe cut out the southern stops (gibralter and malaga). go to cordoba instead. depending on the amount of time you have, ronda is another incredible stop. it's where modern-day bullfighting originated and there's an awesome hotel perched on a cliff overlooking a bridge where they used to throw heretics off. also, if you like sherry, go to jerez de la fronterra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerez_de_la_Fro ntera), which is close to cadiz. i studied in sevilla - i don't know how touristy it is now, but la carboneria was this great, hidden flamenco bar. also, they may have been outlawed but a botellon on the river (you buy a bag which contains a bottle of alcohol, ice, cups and mixers) is a pretty great way to take in a summer evening.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

estein1968 says:

There are some great restaurants along the river in Oporto. Definitely worth the stop.

Sanxenxo is a really fun town on the Galician coast in Spain - looks like you won't make it up that far. Anywhere along the western coast of Spain, you should eat shellfish until you can't eat any more. Percebes are great.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

adamisserlis says:

Just did 10 days in southern Spain, and had a layover in Lisbon.

here are our food shots: www.flickr.com/photos/adamisserlis/sets/72157 619437983781/

I'd highly recommend El Rinconcillo in Seville. Tapas places are all pretty similar, but this one is a bit more traditional, and the bartenders are warm and friendly. I'd also suggest going to La Carboneria for a drink and some flamenco.

Go to Jerez for a Sherry tour - also great food there.

Vejer is a beatiful town, but similar to Ronda, so I'd pick one or the other.

and get Caracoles where ever you go. Hopefully they're still in season.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Remyyy says:

If you stop in Coimbra, I would highly suggest the restaurant "Ze Manuel". I had my best gastronomic experience there. The waiter was fantastic (it was something like 5 years ago though). I searched a bit in the web and found that old review : cogumelos-aporcalhados.blogspot.com/2005/03/z -manel-dos-o...
It described almost exactly what I felt. Special atmosphere, waiter advising always good things (we were 4, so he ordered 4 different things for us, so we could test all of them). That special wall is like a legend for me too. I haven't spend much time in Portugal (2 weeks) but when I'm thinking about it, that the first thing coming in my mind and I'll remember it for a long time.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

aaannnaaa says:

if you need help with lisbon just call me... i believe you have my e.mail if not it's aaannnaaa at gmail...
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

onshakedown says:

hey zach,

I've never been to Spain, but TreeHugger.com has some writers there. One has an incredible green home she's remodeled. Not sure if she's there this summer (or interested in your stopping by :) but thought I'd toss that out there in case you were into that. I think she's in Madrid.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Alex Cheek says:

I spent a few weeks in Granada and can't recommend it enough. My most amazing memory is:
Walking a street that goes down one of the big hills, we saw an older gentleman looking through a telescope. I asked what he was looking at and struck up a conversation. We ended up being invited into his house and his house was a cave. In fact all of the houses on that road were caves dug into the hillside and whitewashed on the inside. As I write this, I am wondering to myself if I could possibly be remembering it correctly, but look: here is one
You have to see them.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

tozε says:

hey zach, ditto for all the comments regarding portugal, plus these:

in Oporto, DON'T miss the 'francesinhas'. They're spicy cheese-bologna-ham sandwiches with a spicy sauce and they're kind of iconic. Take a couple of hours to wander around the old part, nothing particular to see, just some nice views.

in Alentejo, pretty much anywhere you go will be overrun with tourists, but it's still well worth the trip.

Also, will put you up in Leiria if you need to :)
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Conrad Buck says:

Try to get off the beaten track from Avila to Salamanca by visting "Piedrahita" at the foot of the Sierra's. Great little town, used to go there every year handgliding. Very quiet, very non-touristy.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Zach Klein says:

I have the feeling we're going to break hearts with this update: After sifting through all of the recommendations (thank you!) we tightened the circuit to stick to Portugal with an exception to visit Galicia in Northwest Spain. We're worried about spreading ourselves too thin and decided we have to leave something to visit on another trip -- our lives are very long!

Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

bunz says:

wise decision!
i think the region within the country is beautiful, also...
there are lot of quiet romantic places in Alentejo area.

enjoy!
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

Pete Sulick says:

Bone up on your Portuguese history. It's a fascinating country. I can personally recommend "The Portuguese Empire: A World on the Move" by JR Russel-Wood and "The Peninsular War: A New History" by Esdaile. The areas you will be traveling through are rife with world altering events.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

tiojoca says:

seems like you now have your travel plan more or less devised. portugal+galicia is a nice choice as both regions are very related, both culturally and historically (particularly northern portugal).

in this resolution it's not clear if they're included in the tour, but sintra and óbidos are definitely 2 mandatory stops. i would include coimbra as well if you have time.

if you get the change to get away from the big centers don't miss the smaller villages in minho and trás-os-montes (north) like castro laboreiro. guimarães center is also worth the detour. ponte de lima is a great stop for some of minho's gastronomic specialties (which can be quite heavy).

the portuguese inland's a lot more deserted than the coast line, as you can notice just from looking at the map and can feel a bit desolate in summer. brace yourselves for some "dry heat" in those regions especially in alentejo.

depending on number and pickiness i can provide roof and guidance in aveiro and porto. or point out some nice off-the-beaten-track camping places.
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

I='-'=I says:

Like everybody said, SINTRA!

Then you have to pass by Porto, as it is my homecity ;) You should try to do Porto - Salamanca following the national routes insted of highway, doing all the trip close to the river... you will take about 12 hours (with stops to do it, but is worth it!
One place that you should consider is Piodão (Portugal)(http://www.panoramio.com/photo/634 8861)... and Almeida (Portugal), in the way to Salamanca ( maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl =it&geoc... )... zoom it and you will see a star shaped village.

Salamanca, is a MUST GO city, so, no matter what roadtrip you guys decide to do in the end dont miss it, is one of my favorite places in Spain.

About Coimbra... Coimbra sure is great, but not in the summer, as it is a "student city". In the summer you will miss what Coimbra really is, in my opinion. Insted, you should consider Aveiro ( maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl =it&geoc... ) known as "The Portuguese Venice". If you go, try to escape the city and visit the place where they make salt, with all the salt mountains

For a great panoramic try "Penedo Durão" ( maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl =it&geoc... ) close to Freixo de Espada a Cinta. And you can also visit Freixo de Espada a Cinta, its the last city, following the Douro river, before Spain, and it is in the way to Salamanca (Freixo - Salamanca = 1h30m, the road is a national road, but the view is GREAT).

Try also Pasteis de Chaves, if you pass by Chaves!

;)
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

I='-'=I says:

OHHHH!!!! If you go to Porto you HAVE TO TRY "Francesinha".
I would consider your visit to Portugal incomplete if you pass by Porto and dont eat it. Francesinha... look it up in wikipedia.

And, of course, SUPERBOCK, the beer, that best suits the Francesinha!
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

I='-'=I says:

And, as im reading in one of the comments, Precebas are also A MUST EAT "thing"! www.restaurante-fontanario.com/imagens/perceb as.JPG really, is a MUST EAT seafood!
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

alancoul says:

hey come to guadix i can show you the city its less than a hour from granada to the east , it has the best gastronomy, i can show you the caves,and theres a site for camping in 10 km in cogollos
tell me when do you come, i can go to granada and meet too
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

aaannnaaa says:

wise decision!
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

John Gevers says:

"our lives are very long!"
Posted 7 months ago. ( permalink )

gblakeman says:

There is a tiny little town positioned in the countryside between Marbella and Gibraltar. It's absolutely enchanting - built inside the walls of an old castle.

It's called Castello de Castellar. You'll find the adjunct town (Castellar de la Frontera) on the map (at some point in the 50s they moved most of the down down into the valley).

But the castle portion is up a long winding road through a cork forest. The views at the top are amazing and on a good day you can see all the way to the Rock of Gibraltar.
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

AptStudio says:

Spend A LOT of time at the Costa de La Luz, Andalucia (in between Cadiz and tarifa). It's the most unspoilt part of spain, and very very mellow. Maybe too mellow for you! Tarifa and Cadiz have some spirit. Cadiz is where the bond film with halle berry was filmed, doubling as Havanna.

- Stay at the hurricane hotel, outside tarifa;
- Eat raw, fresh tuna with olive and salt only, everywhere; also eat mojama, air-dried tuna - the japanese source their tuna here as it is the finest in the world
- Move slowly from tarifa, after some windsurfing, to Cadiz, via as many beaches as you can; bolonia is a good one just outside tarifa
- Search out the beach bars (chiringuitos) on playa El Palmar, outside conil. Just hang on this beach all day long - assuming the wind isn't blowing too much
- Bodysurf and lunch at Casa Luis, Puerco beach just outside Roche, a suburb between Conil and el Colorado
- Eat at el bigote in Sanluca de la Barrameda (and obviously drink lots of ice cold manzanilla)
- Zahora and Zahara and Barbate are amazing and very quiet
- Wander around the hilltown of Vejer at dusk and eat in the moroccan restaurant in the hotel whose name escapes me
- Visit Jerez and tapas-crawl, but don't beat yourself up if you don't make it

Seriously, we go to this part of spain every year. It's beautiful and possibly a shade of california.
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

"Peter" says:

+1 to Andalucia. Escape the greenhouses and its untouched. Look out for the Iberian Lyxnes too :)
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

Diogo Seoane says:

don't forget cascais and eat the best ice cream in the world in SANTINI is in the center of cascais near the trainstation (www.geladosantini.com)
Obidos has been said as Sintra, in obidos you can try the ''Ginginha'' its a liquor in a chocolate glass. And in Sintra don't forget to eat ''traveiseiros'' in Cafe Piriquita.
In Oporto you have to eat Francesinha!
so many good things to eat here in Portugal, its hard to say them all

hope you enjoy the trip zach
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

hercios says:

Great update to the trip... should not miss Santiago de Compostela... The outskirts of Vigo are fantastic too (I am originally from there)... Check this set out, the pics are geotagged:

www.flickr.com/photos/hercios/sets/7215760585 7406638/
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

hrty50 says:

This was such a great idea, i thought I'd try it myself here:

www.flickr.com/photos/26793702@N06/3684198509 /

In case anyone has any suggestions to add for the south of france, or any other key destinations as we drive from paris to lisbon and then back to paris in 21 days...

Have a great trip Mr. Klein!
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

Zach Klein says:

Thank you everyone for your notes, we had a wonderful trip. I posted some photos here: www.flickr.com/photos/zachklein/sets/72157620 877057765/
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

Phil Blackburn says:

I thinking of doing a similar trip in October. I have about 4 weeks available. I was wndering if there was anything along your planned route that you felt you should have skipped out of or, if there were any places you passed along the way that you wished you had more time to visit.
Posted 4 months ago. ( permalink )

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I need your help planning my roadtrip through Portgual and Spain (this is a crowdsourced trip)

Comments

[phil h] says:

laszlito says:

tomkrap says:

thincvox says:

Silus Grok says:

Silus Grok says:

Pepper Watkins says:

kraeutergarten says:

Zach Klein says:

individual8 says:

benjamillen says:

themexican says:

eqx1979 says:

furilo says:

kokomokid says:

lmessy says:

ッ Zach Hoeken ッ says:

themarkpike says:

fredwilson says:

Emasoft says:

Brian Kurtzman says:

Paul Brady says:

frieman76 says:

CarlSjogreen says:

Worcester says:

bunz says:

kafarber says:

estein1968 says:

adamisserlis says:

Remyyy says:

aaannnaaa says:

onshakedown says:

Alex Cheek says:

tozε says:

Conrad Buck says:

Zach Klein says:

bunz says:

Pete Sulick says:

tiojoca says:

I='-'=I says:

I='-'=I says:

I='-'=I says:

alancoul says:

aaannnaaa says:

John Gevers says:

gblakeman says:

AptStudio says:

"Peter" says:

Diogo Seoane says:

hercios says:

hrty50 says:

Zach Klein says:

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