Yahoo = Censorship

Censorship is never right!

what the heck?

Flickr: You are Cowards.

CENSORSHIP is EVIL

We mean business!!!

Fair business for Rebekka. ;)

Criminals...

All we ask is fairness.

Protect Rebekka's work...

Protest the evil that has presented itself. (you know who you are)

I love this. What lens did you use?

Just say no to Pro Accounts!

Shame on you Flickr.

what's next...???

Let's not forget, that Rebekka has been a victim of a serious crime.

Her art was stolen and sold against her will.

a serious crime against humanity happened...This artist has been trying to catch the perpurtrators for over 5 months and they continued to conduct their criminal activities.

If you have a conscience..please support Rebekka, she deserves so much more for her losses. Please listen to this thead.

without the community which created it...flickr never existed.

Nothing shows something (lightbulb in your head?) Report the abuse ... I know you see blank page.

I just wanted in on the fun.

there's right and then there's wrong

Who's side are you on???

Please support Rebbeka against what is "EVIL".

I know this looks like Frank Llod Wright, but let's wrong the right...

I would just like to know the reason why Flickr took that picture down.

I really... really don't get that.
And what was there to censor?

Yep!

I support Rebeeka!

I don't think Flickr would have done this if they weren't owned by Yahoo. At least I hope not. Silencing the community is a bad move... look at what happened with digg with the HD DVD stories.

I support Rebekka!

I launch an appeal to the Flickr staff: the time has come to finally sack yahoo and move to google!!!!!!!!!!!!

For shame, Yahoo!

Protest with your money, take it elsewhere.

If you really want to show a stand take down your photos!!!! Actions are louder than words. Thanks flickr I'm outa here. Who else has the guts to support Rebekka?

Power to the people!

This whole thing was disgusting

Bad Flickr, no dougnut.
Flickr = Cowards!
Zooomr = Teh Rock!

I support rebekka

fight against censorship!

We're in Gamma. It doesn't Matta!

Collaborative user generated content means we call the shots. Stop acting like you don't need us - we don't need you.

Now this is protest art...

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
--Margaret Mead

Por que lo censuran?????

Count me in! This act is pretty outrageous on Flickr's part.

Hey, this is like modern art ! Warhol, look out !

no more pro account

I had a stream with 1 million views, 10,000s fo comments and 3,000 phtoso deleted without explanation. But I back up my contact list and started teh revoltuion.

Freedom of Speech!!!
Flickr, don't go to the dark side!!!

Rebekka: We are with you!

I really cannot understand why flickr is doing such things from time to time. In Gail's case some might feel offended, but Rebecca was offending THEM, I assume.

Rebecca has my full support

Picasa :)

_rebekka was one of the people that inspired me to take on photography. Because of rebekka I decided to pick up my first camera, and she absolutely has my support.

Copyright violation. Frustration. Protest. Excessive retribution. Censorship. Phoenix! Not all violations end up with a positive story at the end. Let's look at the break points of Flickr and find ways to create positive endpoints instead.

I'm a Rebekka-supporter!

They are with the dark site.

no censorship

Disgusting people.
Get some class.

I am utterly disgusted flickr.

Down with the Scum!

Flickr sucks !!

Support Rebekka!!! Fight Censorship!!!

Maybe the money for my pro account will be used for something else.

No censorship!!

censorship is wrong!

Fight the power that be! - Urban prophets Chuck and Flava Flav...

it looks good :) they may censor this too.

Not much photo is this, but very artistic indeed. Sometimes good things might actually come out of bad things...

Down with the man!

Never let it happen again! I feel for Rebekka.

Add your note here.

wow

im confused

yahoo likes rectangles

СвОбОдУ СлОвА !

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Comments

< Prev 1 2 3 Next >

(245 comments)

Elinesca says:

That is actually shocking... she wasn't harassing anybody..
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

redisred says:

DITTO. I love flickr, but this is not excusable. Rebekka's work has been a tremendous inspiration to me and millions (literally) of others, this is just not right.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

mclgreenville / memorymotel says:

JPG implosion and now this. What a crap day. Sorry Rebekka...
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Hamelius says:

wow
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

WAXY. says:

This is horrible. I commented on her stream about the incident to give my support. Flickr's behaviour is getting worse an worse. I'm old skool and I ain't gonna take it much longer! If there is a lesson to be learned, flickr should pay attention to the JPG Magazine uproar.

Shame on you, Flickr!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Benzadrine says:

Well, the inevitable censorship of the Yahoolag is catching up with Flickr... What a pity... I feel like the site is too much of a part of my life to leave, yet how can you remain, and by remaining support such idiocy?
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

~btezra~ [deleted] says:

WTF is going on w/ people, companies...communities
seems like shame is spreading like wild fire
wtf is up w/ that?
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Quizz... says:

this is unbelivable...i'm sorry it happend, i dont know what to say even....flickr got truly crazy....
no words...no words...!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Siebbi says:

On one hand her complaints are OK but on the other hand I think flickr or yahoo has a problem with her appeal to write angry letters to the company who stole her pictures.
Anyway: shame on you, yahoo! Shooting without warning isn't the right way.

--
Seen on my Flickr home page. (?)
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

pishee says:

this is getting ridiculous.
--
Seen on my Flickr home page. (?)
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Mute* says:

This is a horrible day for people who have placed their trust and work in communities like Flickr and JPG.

I simply can't believe that Flickr would censor and undermine one of its own members against thieving scum.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

smoothdude says:

what is flickr's problem?

here we go zooomr, here we gooooo!!!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

tylermhawkins says:

Unbelievable...
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

phrenophile says:

That really disappoints me. So much for recommending Flickr to friends. An incident like this is all it takes for me to never again recommend a service like Flickr. So though I am remaining a part of this community for now... I'm no longer singing Flickr's praises.

Any Flickr staff our there listening? Take it to heart.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Tamar Weinberg says:

Flickr owes Rebekka an apology.

Instead of removing Rebekka's post, Flickr should look for patterns of user behavior where users are downloading the largest resolution images in chunks like in Rebekka's case. Chances are that kind of behavior is not just because someone wants to collect the photos.

There's a problem when Flickr is exploited as a tool for new companies to profit off of someone else's hard work. There's another problem when Flickr removes the photographer's post simply because they found out who the thieves are and called them out on it. In a way, Flickr has just condoned what the thieves did.

One wonders what Flickr's true intentions are when they censor one of their own members (and a pro user at that) over what Mute said, "thieving scum." Apparently, stealing is okay, because Flickr will not let you point out -- at least on their site -- that their site is being used as a grounds for theft.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

_rebekka says:

@Siebbi: your most likely right that what triggered this is my
line about sending angry letters. However, i was pretty damn angry myself (with good reason) and what i meant was just that.. angry letters. That they deserved to get anyway. but i myself didnt send any, and i wasnt directly harrassing anyone. It was a direct result, yes.
and apparently the angry letters turned into silly stuff like death threats , and when i heard about that i added an "edit" to my long caption, asking people to please calm down with the letters, and that i don't condone threats of violence. Anyway, in the very least, if flickr was so very bothered about me using my account (which i PAY FOR, btw) in this way, they could have sent me a note, asking me to remove it, or asking me to rephrase things, or at least give me a chance to save the comments. Some very , very good writing was lost. And good advice as well.

again, thank you Thomas for your support. (that goes to anyone else who spent their time and effort showing me their support in that thread)
It means TONS to me.
;)
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

urban penguin says:

i love flickr. i don't love yahoo.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Dave Ward Photography says:

Holy. Freakin'. Crap.

I have Rebekka as a contact and friend, and watch her stream religiously... and somehow I totally missed this whole incident. I guess I've been pretty busy the last few days and haven't watched *anybody* as closely as I usually do, but... amazing that I missed such a huge moment. I feel seriously guilty that I wasn't there. Ugh.

Yeah, this is seriously, seriously bad on Flickr's part.

I had a seriously close brush once with account deletion until I caught Stewart's attention. He was very apologetic, and apparently the whole incident was due to Flickr being fairly short-staffed, and having to sometimes act on reports without fully checking into them. I was in the right, and it was taken care of very nicely.

Obviously I don't know the details -- and again, I feel really inattentive and guilty that I somehow missed this 'til now -- but I just *hope* this was another incident of an over-eager flickr staffer acting without verifying the legitimacy of the situation.

Anyway, Rebekka, you have every ounce of my enthusiastic support!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Etep says:

I actually found out about this through the digg post. My heart's out to you Rebekka. Your shots and expression on your blog are truly amazing and what has occured is simply not right.

I'm not sure how your fight is going against onlydreemin but I wish you all the luck. I had hoped yahoo would've backed you up.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

alyssa likes to take pictures says:

I was one of those who supported Rebekka via comment....WTF? WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? what is wrong with those people! Does anyone have to be reminded of our constitutional rights!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Elizabeth Salib says:

Amen.
Jeez.. that's frigging retarded.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

muskva says:

oh!
that is too much!
Im shocked.
I saw Rebekka's image with her stolen pictures by the bastards from www.only-dreemin.com.
flickr instead of protection is giving us a hardtime
pathetic... and sad
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Anita & Greg says:

Outrageous!
I will post a link back to this.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Eric Rice says:

All the best guys-- takin' it to the blogs. :)
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

jon.atli says:

This is serious. Why should we post our pictures on flickr if this is their attitude? We do not all have Rebekka's talent but we all care about our own work and ideas. They are not on flickr for others to exploit.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Nico.... says:

And lo did Yahoo and Flickr decide to self-destruct...
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

MegElizabeth_ says:

my god, this makes me so angry.

if flickr can't be a safe community for people to share their art, then it shouldn't be anything at all. it's time that the flickr staff realize that the talented artists that make their site great will not continue to support the site if they are not supported in turn.

thanks for bringing this issue to light!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Brain Map says:

I simply wanted to add my support. I saw Rebekka's post and am shocked that it would be removed considering how mature and, as you said, non-violent she was about it. Flickr should support her side rather than contribute to the problem. This is outrageous.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Siebbi says:

@rebekka: I completely agree with you! They should have written you a letter first! But now it's too late. The avalanche is set off. Now everyone can read about it on Thomas blog. Thank you for multiplying!
I'm not a lawyer and I don't know if yahoo is facing trouble if the thieves sue them because of some trouble the whole story caused to them, anyway well deserved or not. Sometimes to be right and to get right isn't the same.
Just let me say that you have my deepest sympathy and I hope the thieves show consideration or you'll find a way to take legal action.

--
Seen in my contacts' photos. (?)
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

iwilliamm [deleted] says:

i completely agree !
companies such as Yahoo should be standing behind their customers rather than sending the message out to thieves to go ahead and steal whatever they want. I posted a link on deviant art and noticed the site wasn't working today. I also sent a nasty letter to onlydreemin. People should have a site that sticks up for intellectual rights !
thank you so much for posting this. I hope they get the message.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

ricko says:

Right on!!!! Power to the Flickr community.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Stephen Poff says:

I think it scares corporations to know how fast the serfs can storm the castle when we get passionate about something. If only we could get this involved outside of the internet sometimes and solve global warming and world hunger. But regardless, it gives me hope in humanity after seeing this many people standing up for one person who had reached the end of her means to fight. Kudos fellow flickrites.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

G o r a n [deleted] says:

I for one welcome our new overlords, Yahoo! Just kidding. Seriously though, Rebekka and her photos are beautiful and this should serve as a lesson to you all. If your photos are worth something to you, or part of your livelihood don't post them in a big format. As we've seen here, even 1200x800 is large enough to make sizable prints. Even if you limit the size viewable to others on flickr itself, it's still easy to get a copy of the photo in its original size, that is, the photo you actually uploaded. So shrink your original photos beforehand. Or watermark them, or don't post them at all. And yeah Zooomr kicks ass.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

dantekgeek says:

C'mon Flickr, you're better than this douchebaggery.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Shoot First says:

Wow that is just terrible. It is shocking that they would show so little regard a long standing customer. Yahoo obviously cares very little about individual clients and finds it easier use the whack-a-mole approach to any problems that come up.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

bryan campen says:

Can you imagine how sucky their performance on issues of free speech will be in the near future f they cannot get *even this* right? Beyond disappointing. So stupid and arrogant.
But then again, look at what Yahoo is up to in China. Why would they feel any immediate compunction about this? They have gotten away with turning-in journalists already.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Dave Ward Photography says:

You know, there's already a group specifically for/about rebekka, Inspiration: Rebekka. I don't know who the admin is, right off hand, but why don't we all gather over there and organize something proactive and big -- something bigger and more visible than just posting comments under a photo or two? Seriously, let's do something.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

neltek says:

Rebekka
I just spent ages looking for the latest on your post. No show. Flickr deleted !!! blimey…
I would have thought they would help …

To try and be balanced I can partly see that abusive emails to the other company and posts suggesting going round and doing something to them could cause Flickr some problems - but surely those particular posts could be dealt with?

It is a real shame Flickr hasn’t taken a balanced view and alongside dealing with abusive posts , offered their support for the original issue …

Good luck - presume you have heard no more from Only Dreaming..?
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Tanner. says:

Suggest we post our feedback and concerns to the flickr forum that chadworthman started:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/40074

Or will this thread get deleted too?
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Proggie says:

This is all very sickening. First the theft, and now this censorship. I guess it's hard to litigate against the company since they are probably small so no lawyer will want to take on the case for free because it's not enough cash for him to make of them. (What if we all pitched in and got a legal fund to go after the bastards, and any new ones that pop up?)

As for the censorship, it makes no sense. I can't see how they could be afraid of getting sued themselves, since i'm sure they have a disclaimer that the comments of users are not their own. I would think they'd go after the company themselves.

Maybe yahoo didn't liek the seemingly bad publicity the case created. I hope they appologize at least, and set the record straight.

Now for the actual way that these scumbags operate, I was under the impression that Flickr changed the flirck API and the backend to not allow users access to the original images. I know it was easy before to do it, but I for one can't easily (at all) do it. So is there still a loophole that allows people to easily get these large sizes? If so, Flickr needs to knwo about it so they can plug the holes.

Maybe they don't care now since the site is not supposed to be used by professionals, but they will eventually want to make money by selling images (the partnership with imagekind is probably just the beginning). So they better fix this NOW!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

kevinsarayba says:

Wow! It seems everyone is in danger of having their photos used/stolen without permission and the theif can get away with it. Flickr, please support your members instead of suppressing them.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Benny Vision says:

Wow, what the photosharing world coming to, JPG implosion and now this, it's NOT RIGHT!!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

sboots says:

I am appalled at Yahoo's actions. I was upset at the fact that someone could so easily steal and profit from that theft when I read _rebekka's entry yesterday, but now I am doubly upset that Yahoo would take the action that they have taken.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

crumplestiltskin says:

That's ridiculous! Call me cynical but I'd be willing to bet that, as always seems to be the case in these big man versus little man scenarios, there was some kind of exchange going on between the image library and flickr that caused the photo to be pulled. Flickr should be siding with the artist on this, and setting a precedent for future policy on the growing issue of copyright theft.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

kacnyc says:

We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still.
~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion.
~Henry Steele Commager

Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime.
~Potter Stewart
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Al Abut says:

Ok, what the hell is going on with online photography today? First Derek and Heather leave JPG (the mag they founded) and then this? It's hard to believe this is all just one day of photography-related drama...
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

josue salazar says:

Unfuckingbelievable.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Dalboz17 says:

This is ridiculous! What are Yahoo/Flickr thinking!? If I make a complaint about someone's photo and claim it's intimidating me, despite whatever ground I have to stand on, will they pull that too??! Thanks for sharing the story Thomas.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

iShé* [soluztrella] says:

I had the idea we were owners of our pictures and space unless involved something socially not approved. I'm confused.

I'm not an awesome photographer or anything at all, I'm in Flickr cause I liked all those cute tools and the chance to use this as a window to my personal point of view. But I don't think that if someone steals a photo from you and you complain, maybe you say you're going to sue them 'cause you're obviously upset...I mean, why should they delete your photo? That photo might have let clear who was the owner of and you're paying for your place in this network.

I didn't read Rebeka's post. But it's sad all this situation, free speach, something most of us are looking for thru internet 'cause it's an open media is dying. Maybe we are the ones to blame for paying for virtual space...

And to say the truth, there's much more to do for Flickr team to clean this place of free streams where monkey brain people uploads lots of dirty photos of nude guys/girls not even taken by them. *Shrugs*
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

The Searcher says:

There was a forum discussion some time ago about who owns the rights to the comments on Flickr. Not only on Flickr, but anyplace where public comments are allowed.

The general consensus was the person posting the comment has the right to the comment, the copyright, whatever you want to call it. My question was how can that be? How can we possibly own the right to something, if we do not own the original, or the ability to protect the original? Since a comment can be deleted by either the Flickr stream owner or Flickr, it seems pretty moot to say we have some right to the comments we write. It was argued that the reality didn't matter, it didn't matter that we had no control over our comments, because we still magically held the rights to them.

Not if we don't control the delete button we don't.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

The Silent Witness [deleted] says:

You know what, Flickr has simply gone too far.

I will not be renewing my account with them, this is just ridiculous.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

El Incomprendido says:

well censorchip sucks is the worst thing to do to a community of photographers and even more worse if the photographer has thousands of followers around the world who admire her work!!

rebeka you have all the suport in this terrible situation, united we can make a lot of noise and protest to make censorship stop!

la censura apesta, es la peor cosa que se le puede hacer a una comunidad de fotografos y más aun si la fotografa tiene cientos de miles de seguidores en todo el mundo que admiran su trabajo!

rebeka tienes todo mi apoyo en esta terrible situacion, unidos podemos hacer mucho ruido y protestar para que la censura se detenga!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

tinney says:

This is a sad day for the little person
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

i4detail says:

First Digg, now Flickr. Darn social networks and their giving users a voice....

I came into the whole stolen images thing before a lot of the comments were made, and by the time I came back again, the photo had been removed. But I agree that Flickr is alienating it's users here. Rather than deleting the picture and thread, they should be hoping on board and fighting for the rights of their users, especially their star players. I've seen a couple teapot tempests round here before, and the complaint is that flickr seems to move at the pace a rather spry glacier. Surely someone in the upper echelons has gotten wind of this by now (has it hit CNN yet?) and sent the message back down the line to make it right.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

tracer.ca says:

From the Zooomr Terms of Service page:
"Harassment, abuse, impersonation, intimidation and threats made through the Web Site are strictly prohibited."
and
"Any part of the Web Site, including media uploaded by users, may be altered at any time for any reason."

Any reasonable company will have terms like this. I'm not saying that what is happening here is cool. But even Flickr before Yahoo had lawyers, the type of lawyers which would recommend certain actions. I wouldn't be surprised if Yahoo got a complaint from Lawyers representing Only-Dreaming. Now, how they acted on these actions I would say was poor.

I do support _rebekka and her fight against copyright infringement, I feel that Yahoo reacted badly, but I can also see Yahoos position.

The Searcher :

We own the copyright to our comments. But as the service hosting those comments, Flickr has the right to remove them, they just can't use them for any other purpose without our consent.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Sebastian Schubanz says:

now they're just delete, later they'll ban :/
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Dshalock® the Libertarian Emperor of America says:

@Tracer.ca - wise words you spoke there.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

R.J.B. says:

I'm utterly stunned at the censorship regarding this issue.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

crater says:

i favoured this shot ( or the absense of it ) and suggest the others do the same. by deleting rebecca"s shot (and i have never seen her work ) flickr becomes a de facto accomplice to the crime by aiding and abbeting ( in my state of nsw in australia 54% of thieves use an accomplice www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocs ar.nsf/vwFil....
shame for you flickr.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Proggie says:

@Dalboz17: it's easy for one's image to be censored unjustly. Happens a lot on flickr. All it takes is a few prudes (or malicious people) to flag a user/image as non-safe, and if enough of them do it the photo will be automatically censored until the owner asks for it to be reviewed. Very backwards, and it's alienating a lot of artists on here.

If flickr keeps doing this to their stars, the ones that make flickr what it is, all those stars will disappear and flickr will be left with just a website with no "interesting" content.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Thomas Hawk says:

From the Zooomr Terms of Service page:
"Harassment, abuse, impersonation, intimidation and threats made through the Web Site are strictly prohibited."
and
"Any part of the Web Site, including media uploaded by users, may be altered at any time for any reason."

Tracer, while these are terms on Zooomr's TOS page.

1. Rebekka did not harrass, abuse, impersonate, intimidate and threaten anyone. What she did was speak her mind.

2. You have to reserve some rights to deal with actual legitimate cases of abuse. If for instance someone threatened to kill someone or called for the murder of someone we'd probably need to deal with this.

3. Ultimately behind Zooomr are actual human beings that can make rational decisions about cases like this. Both Kristopher and I take censorship *extremely* seriously. We would never censor any user without our both knowing about it and without some serious thought and reflection and at a minimum discussion with the person involved. This is a far cry from how Yahoo deals with these matters.

4. Anyone who knows me at all knows how I generally feel about censorship.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

bluenot3 says:

agreeing with urban penguin, i love flickr, but they depend on yahoo. And i don't like yahoo a lest bit.
on this point, i therefore launch an appeal to the Flickr staff: the time has come to finally sack yahoo and move to google.
the perspective could looks tough indeed, but the effort its definitely worthwhile.
the big G's policies are open-minded, their methods mould-breaking, and most important of all, they truly belive in people and their potential.
this incident shows clearly how these qualities are nowadays something quite difficult to find in a company that deals with internet services, and that's exactly what the top-of-the-class photography site needs to finally leave the Gamma phase..., and become an adult.
this sort of incidents simply cannot happens.
rebekka, all my support, go on, you are not alone...
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

J. Random says:

Yet another example of why I have a serious dislike for large corporations, and why I was sad to see Flickr purchased by Yahoo.

Goddammit.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

phej says:

When Yahoo bought flickr I had thoughts that something like this would happen and now I'm sad to see that it has. This whole flagging system they unveiled recently is insane, blocking off content because someone complains. It's ridiculous and has to stop - or we have to leave.

That's why I opened a Zooomr account.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

nacho.prieto says:

I agree "they should restore the picture"
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

jehza says:

Thank you, Thomas, for your strong voice in this. It is heartening that even as Flickr/Yahoo shows indiscretion with its community, the people I've chosen to associate with for the past few years prove again and again that they are concerned with support, justice, and safe art.

A thread is underway in the Inspiration Rebekka group that I think could be useful for people who want to participate more in petitioning flickr:

www.flickr.com/groups/inspirationrebekka/disc uss/72157600...
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Proggie says:

I don't know how this offending website operates, but is it possible that the images that were stolen were done so by a user of theirs? If the website is like imagekind, then users can upload images that are sold through the website, and the users get comission. If this is similar, then the website can't really do much more than take down the user's images (which they did when Rebekka contacted them). They can't make sure that every photo that gets uploaded is owned by the user. Every stock agency has the same kind of problem as well.

Unfortunately photographers are SOL when people do this with their images. Flickr didn't handle this correctly though.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

catt55 says:

rebekkah needs to get herself an agent - her stuff is way commercial and the type that appeals to the mainstream - and a lawyer

hey that's life - flickr had nothing to do with it -

and yes - move to Google sounds progressive...

the move by flickr to curtail the thread on her plight is not censorship it's legal self-protection -- and since none of us OWN this company we really have no say - except to pull our memberships in protest
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Thomas Hawk says:

Zoomr would probably do the same thing if your lawyers told you to.

Automatt Nah, I'd stand by the decision not to censor Rebekka in this case despite what any lawyer might tell me otherwise and I'm CEO of Zooomr. I'm perfectly willing to fight for what's right and preserving her freedom of speech and expression is the right thing to do here. It's in my blood to fight for the right thing. Always have even before Zooomr.

I'd quit before I'd ever censor someone that way. Make a note of that and feel free to bring it to my attention if anyone ever feels they've been censored on Zooomr.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Dalmatica says:

well, this pisses me off.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

AluminumStudios says:

I hate being at the mercy of huge entities like flickr. Sadly the era of individual websites is in it's twilight, so you have no choice but to join "community" sites to interact with others which then puts you at the mercy of censorship and hiding behind corporate crap.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Thomas Hawk says:

Thomas, I was talking about turning over the names of dissident writers to the Chinese government.

Automatt, actually we wouldn't do that either and Zooomr gets more traffic from China and Taiwan right now than anywhere else in the world. Mostly due to the fact that we're localized in both simplified and traditional Chinese.

There are some things in life that are more important than money. Consider this on the record if we ever get big enough to have to deal with an issue like that.

But this issue really isn't about Zooomr. It's about the fact that Flickr needs to step up here and do the right thing which is.

1. Apologize publicly to Rebekka.

2. Reinstate the photo and all of the comments.

3. Change how they handle censorship in the future.

Yahoo seems to be under the mistaken assumption that *they* are the reason why Flickr is successful and that they can treat us like crap. This is not the case at all. Flickr is nothing but all of us. It's users. The community is Flickr. Without us they are nothing. We need to insist on this control and insist that Yahoo do the right thing in this case.

Anything short of this is unacceptable.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

jbhaber says:

Have you ever seen the garbage in Yahoo Finance Message Boards? Why doesn't Yahoo! censure that crap? I think everyone should send angry email messages to Yahoo! and Flickr.

Let's see if they delete this now.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Dave Ward Photography says:

Tangential point: Yahoo! did not turn over Shi Tao's information because of advice from lawyers. Yahoo! turned it over because they want to be able to do business in China, a country of ~1.5 billion people. Yahoo! is one of MANY corporations who are willing to compromise human rights in order to be able to do business with China.

I think we all know that big corporations come down pretty consistently when there's an opportunity to profit if you'll just violate human rights a bit.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

dartlee says:

Wow, this things are getting interesting, but seriously, yahoo is going kinda too far to censor this, especially when flickr's reply was that not a venue for to you harass, abuse, impersonate, or intimidate others. If we receive a valid complaint about your conduct, we will send you a warning or terminate your account. I think what rebekka's doing isnt considered harassing, abusing impersonating or intimidating others.

Anyway, i support rebekka all the way. =D
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

The Searcher says:

Tracer.ca: "We own the copyright to our comments. But as the service hosting those comments, Flickr has the right to remove them..

that actually makes a lot of sense, thanks for that. Of course, I have to wonder what everyone's so upset about if Flickr has the right to remove our comments at any time. Seems sort of inevitable, something like this occuring (as opposed to shocking or surprising.)

Someone suggested that the image should be re-placed. I doubt if Flickr has anything against the image, so Rebekka could probably just repost it. totally unhelpful and useless, I know. I think the image matters quite a bit less than the viewcount and comments.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

J__ says:

I was wondering what happened to that photo. Keep up the good fight. You've got a lot of support.

--
Seen in some comments. (?)
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

_rebekka says:

i feel the need to jump into the discussion for a moment...

FLICKR HAS APOLOGIZED for the removal of my photo, (tho it cant be restored). for what its worth.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

jehza says:

the apology is a step in the right direction,
but now they need to make a public gesture,
especially if they can't restore the foto & thread.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Ivan Hache says:

Im stay with you and rebbeka!

Flickrs ll be restore the deleted picture and comments.

I do this for support her, may be all of us can upload this pic.

Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

phrenophile says:

Would you mind sharing the text of the apology?
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

*phototristan says:

What did they say exactly? What was their reasoning?

"FLICKR HAS APOLOGIZED for the removal of my photo, (tho it cant be restored). for what its worth."
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Eric Eggertson says:

Digg learned last week who actually drives traffic and revenue in their direction - the users.

It's a lesson Yahoo seems to be having trouble learning.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Proggie says:

Heather has posted on the forum thread as well.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

tracer.ca says:

Thomas Hawk:

We are in agreement that the way the Yahoo/Flick handled this is wrong. They should have approached Rebekka first before just blatantly taking down her photo and comments.

I just can't help worrying that there is something that is missing from all this (or I could be wrong and only-dreemin are a bunch of scum).

Side note. As of 9:40pm EST all the sub pages from the home page of www.Only-Dreemin.com are not functioning.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

TinyTitian says:

Can't be Restored???

I have learned Computers for over a decade and can tell you that It takes a lot of effort and deliberate action to truly remove something from the computer.

While I do not know what is the Flickr Hardware setup, but I am amazed that they do not have a good "back up" policy. A good one will allow you to restore nearly everything there is.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Cazador de Tatuajes says:

"Fucked up" does not even beguin to describe this situation
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

jon madison says:

fetching -- leaving flickr is a bit harder. a lot of people have built up a lot here, and a lot of people actually *do* love flickr (me being one of them).

unfortunately, as rebba states, some people can be real idiots with their indignation, but the flickr/big y! seems to have handled it in a poor, reactionary manner.

Tinititian--yeah i'm with you. i can't imagine it can't be restored. at least to a partial portion of itself. if that's the case then we oughtta reconsider flickr for other reasons...

j.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

jon madison says:

i wish that zooomr had a better name...dumb as it sounds, i want to migrate, but that name is so ridiculous and sounds like a rip off that it's tough for me to say i'm going there:)

gocarrt,

"Where's the abuse, harassment, etc."

rebba already said where the abuse and harassment came from--her constituents.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

ChatOmbre says:

I keep finding more and more signs that Flickr is really going downhill... and I'm terribly disappointed. *sigh* I suppose it's probably time for me to consider other sites again...

Thank you for sharing this with us, getting the word out, etc!!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Aaron_M says:

Good for you to let 'em know!
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

MurphyZero says:

Ridiculous, Flickr/Yahoo should be ashamed...... since when is theft tolerated and appropriate response censored....?

--
Seen in my contacts' photos. (?)
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

@ Brad says:

FLICKR TURNS INTO COWARDS

“To sin by silence when we should protest makes cowards of people” This was a quote by Emily Cox and it applies here. Flickr for some insane and idiotic reason decided to turn into cowards.

What are they afraid of? What in the world could Rebekka’s photostream could have possibly caused any harm? Why end it? What are the repercussions for Flickr?

To add insult to injury they decided to threaten Rebekka by saying, “If we receive a valid complaint about your conduct, we will send you a warning or terminate your account.” oh, gee thanks!

I thought she got fucked over by getting art work stolen, and now she might lose her account for, uhh…exposing a scandal of lies and hideous crimes. Do they want to add a prison sentence too for trying to right a sinister wrong?

Well, Flickr does punish her with a threat to end her account that I know is a very prideful thing for her. There’s a joy, happiness, and passion in her work and her comments to her fans when she interacts with them. I used to respect Flickr…not sure anymore after this episode of shame and disgrace.

Hmmm. I can’t ever recollect anything recently as unfair as this. This reeks of something of a Fascist state. No fair game as the big bad company and in this case the governing institution (Flickr of all people) set the rules and we just sit there and take their bullshit.

Well, I for one am not going to take this. I will follow this to the end and support Rebekka in her right to justice. Sometimes, we have to fight for what we believe in and this is not right. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on you Flickr.

Let’s not sin by silence and act to help Rebekka in her moment when she was clearly violated by a heinous crime of theft.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

blakeseely says:

so very very lame. I don't really believe they can't bring the photo and comments back, too.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Dr_Watso says:

TinyTitian says:
Can't be Restored???

I have learned Computers for over a decade and can tell you that It takes a lot of effort and deliberate action to truly remove something from the computer.

While I do not know what is the Flickr Hardware setup, but I am amazed that they do not have a good "back up" policy. A good one will allow you to restore nearly everything there is.

It gets a lot more complicated with such a huge database, especially considering all the code designed to mask the location and real links to a particular file. It's probably not impossible to restore the file and all it's original database links to comments, pages, etc, but I'd wager it would be pretty tough, if not actually impossible. A lot of it depends on how the flickr code is written, but that's my best guess. It doesn't make much sense to spend your engineer's time restoring a single object in a database of billions. Trust me, they have plenty on their plate to deal with.

I don't necessarily agree with how they handled it, but considering the "death threats" issue, I'm also not too surprised that they did the knee-jerk thing. It's too bad, because it's generally not hard to change security on a row/s of data so that it won't show up, without actually deleting it.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

@ Brad says:

@blakeseely,

I'm with you and I'm really pissed off about this. It's just plain wrong...
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Aiko Heiwa says:

Oh man...this really makes me want to just leave flickr. I thought this site was great but what they did isn't. I'm not sue happy, but if I were her, it would make me want to sue flickr for violating my Constitutional rights.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

earthdog says:

If you want to make sure you are protected, you need to own the site. You need to own the space where the comments are. Without that ownership people are at the whim of others. You can try to shame Flickr into reinstating Rebekka photo and comments, but that does not change anything in the end. These things will keep on happening. We are in their garden, not our own.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

Jeff Harris of Baltimore says:

what the f' flickr? your respectablitiy is continuing a slide down.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

FlorinC says:

I dont think Im gonna renew my flickr membership, fuck it. I might just go to Zooomr. This is all bullshit.
Posted 26 months ago. ( permalink )

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