Yahoo Censorship Still Sucks, Part Five

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Yahoo Censorship Still Sucks, Part Five by Thomas Hawk.

Update: Rev Dan Catt from Flickr has un Nipsa'd this photograph.

[I am CEO of Zooomr]

For the fifth time in the past 2 days my images have disappeared from public search on Flickr. Best I can tell these images were marked NIPSA by Yahoo - Flickr.

NIPSA is a cowardly way that Yahoo removes your images from public search on Flickr. It is done in secret, behind your back, anonymously and you are not notified when it is done to you. For some people this means that their entire photostreams are removed from public search. For others it's a few random images from their photostream. The thing is, you will never know if it's been done to you or not. You might figure it out later on your own when trying to search for your photo but you won't know when it happens to you.

Ask yourself this. Is this image offensive? It's interesting that two of images marked NIPSA were images accompanied by a message critical of Yahoo.

Entire groups can be NIPSA'd on Flickr.

This very well may be the fifth image that Yahoo decides to NIPSA of mine. NIPSA sucks. NIPSA is wrong. Flickr should treat their paying customers better than this.

The problem with censorship is that in the end it usually only strengthens the power of your critics message.

If you do a search for TestingNIPSA you will find this single image (I suspect by the time you read this, this image also may be removed though).

www.flickr.com/search/?q=testingnipsa

And yet all of the urls below contain the same tag. Something needs to be done about this.

www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/420604426/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/419109430/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/419986620/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/420473563/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/419107007/

How many of your photos have been marked NIPSA?

Answer: You'll never know.

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Comments

Thomas Hawk says:

here's the thing. This image is not actually a screenshot. It's a legitimate photograph that I took of my computer screen with my 5D. Yahoo can keep marking it NIPSA all they want, I'm just going to keep reuploading it over and over and over and over again with the same message.

NIPSA is broken. NIPSA is wrong. If they want to explain why my images are being NIPSA'd I'm happy to listen. But it's fucked up that Flickr treats it's paying customers this way.

Looks like if you dare criticize Yahoo welcome to the world of NIPSA.

I can play this game for a long, long time though.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

cybele malinowski says:

break them down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Dr_Watso says:

Can you show us which image was nipsa'd and you couldn't figure out why? I have a real hard time believing that the flickr staff engages in wanton random nipsa-ing. There must be a standard of some type set.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Thomas Hawk says:

Dr. Watso, all of the links in the above photo description are no longer in public search on Flickr.

www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/420604426/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/419109430/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/419986620/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/420473563/
www.flickr.com/photos/thomashawk/419107007/
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Dr_Watso says:

Yea, but those are all just collages used for your experiment... Which nipsa do you disagree with, and why?
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Thomas Hawk says:

I disagree with the NIPSA of my collages, Dr. Watso.

--
Seen on the Web. (?)
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Dr_Watso says:

Oh, so you posted a collage before any of this, and then found that it was nipsa'd? My mistake, I assumed the collages were a form of drawing attention to this issue, but the original collage wasn't.

At any rate, I suspect it's because flickr wants to keep a certain uniformity of content for the public areas. That uniformity seems to include both the type of media, and the content of that media, to the extent that they don't want to offend casual browsers without warning, or drive away someone who is just looking for photography with lots of other forms of media.

Flickr is rather lax on the type of media uploaded, but I don't see how it's over-stepping their bounds as service providers to try and keep a photo-site centered around photos, rather than the millions of other paintings, collages, drawings etc that get uploaded and viewed here.

Of course, that brings up the whole issue of creating a "definition" of photography, which is a debate that might never end. For that reason, it would seem to be a near impossibility for the flickr staff to try and explain why they feel each article isn't fitting into that uniformity standard they try to keep...

I'm just playing "Devil's" advocate here... For what it's worth, I think you're a great addition to flickr, and I honestly would be upset if they just started tagging your photos as nipsa for seemingly no reason... As far as the collage though, I think there's an argument to be made!
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

jakerome says:

Hey Thomas, why don't you post a photo of something (like a kitten) and post a scathing critique of Yahoo! & Flickr in it. Then, if it doesn't get NIPSA'd, you promise to stop claiming "Looks like if you dare criticize Yahoo welcome to the world of NIPSA." Until you drop that line, you just sound like a blowhard who's got too much time on his hand.

It's a bullshit claim and you know it.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

The Searcher says:

thomas: man I argued for taking pics of my computer screen for ages, all of my artwork and all of my videogame design shots are photos of the screen, yet still they were considered "non-photos". The terms of what is considered a "photo" I will always be happy to argue with, but these are Flickr policies, long-standing even, so it's weird you'd call it out as "Yahoo" everywhere.

and suddenly now, opportune timing even ("something-something-r Mark III" ring a bell?) It comes off like propaganda, since the truth is, it is FLICKR that's oppressing you if that's what you want to consider it, or censoring you, whatever. Why aren't you attacking them directly, instead of the mega-corp that really has nothing to do with Flickr's decisions in NIPSA, but may be easier to rally faux-conspiratorial support against?

It's also a little odd for the sturm and drang from you, considering how plugged in you are to the forums, you probably know more than most that a NIPSA replacement is imminent ( www.flickr.com/forums/help/34887/181800/ ) , so why now? with images that have long been considered NIPSA based on terms-I-don't-like, but not censorship. by the mothership.

sorry. I guess I'm a "follow the money" guy at heart. so color me suspicious. sucks to have stuff nipsa'd tho, hope the rest of those images get cleared up soon.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Thomas Hawk says:

and suddenly now, opportune timing even

timing is irrelevant. The photo above was taken with my Canon 5D. This is the first time that I'm aware a photo of mine has been marked NIPSA. It's bullshit. To allow arbitrary, secret, anonymous people to remove your photos from public search without your notification and consent is bullshit. They picked the timing to NIPSA my photos, not me.

It was also bullshit for Flickr/Yahoo (do you really believe they are two different things?) to censor my image of Michael Crook a month ago (and yet that was nowhere near a Zooomr release).

Hey Thomas, why don't you post a photo of something (like a kitten) and post a scathing critique of Yahoo! & Flickr in it.

Yahoo didn't NIPSA a photo I took of a kitten. If they did you'd bet I'd complain though.

If Yahoo doesn't want me to complain about NIPSA then they should stop fucking with my photos.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

jakerome says:

Hey Thomas, It's not a FUCKING Photo!

They don't give a rat's ass if you complain, especially when you make yourself look like a prick by tossing around obviously false claims. You have a pretty big megaphone on the internet, but if you obsess over issues like this, you'll soon be tuned out. Let it go, or focus on the one sensible point you've brought up-- you don't know when you've been NIPSA'd. The rest is just pathetic whining.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Rev Dan Catt says:

[I am not CEO of Flickr, but I do work here]

I don't know the ins-and-outs of this as I'm down in Austin, but I have had a quick look.

Your screenshots from the other day have been marked as screenshots, because, well they're screenshots. Which is why they're not showing up in public searches.

These latest two twitter photos are photos of the screen. One of which was marked as NIPSA by people clicking the "May Offend" link, possibly because they thought it was a screenshot.

I've un-NIPSAed it because it's a photo.

There's a good chance, considering the interest in this photo that people will click the "May Offend" link again. In which case I (or someone else) will review it and un-NIPSA it again.

We know it's not a perfect system, which is why moves are afoot to change it. But for the moment it's the best we've got and works well most of the time, and we're in the throws of improving it.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Mazda6 (Tor) says:

I disagree with censorship and NIPSA'ing.

However, it is easy to blame flickr/yahoo for this. It may be that flickr is responding to external events. The US in general is intolerant of certain types of images i.e. hate, racist or nude pics. Yahoo can easily be subject to both law suits and adverse publicity. While I do not support yahoo's decision on this matter, it is easy to forget that decisions are made in the context of the society in which the companies operates and is accountable.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

Sbocaj says:

Guess it just goes to show ya - if you want to get something done at Flickr, contact the CEO of Zooomr.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

paladinsf says:

big brother
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

phrenophile says:

Thanks Thomas for using your stream to start this conversation.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

The Searcher says:

Yah, because some of us have been using our stream to have this conversation for over a year. Oh woe is the photographer who feels the sting of the nipsa (as opposed to us artists who are supposed to just grin and bear it.) We're just not loud enough, I guess.

Even tho the replacement for nipsa has been in the works for months, I suppose every late little bit helps.
Posted 34 months ago. ( permalink )

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Yahoo Censorship Still Sucks, Part Five

Comments

Thomas Hawk says:

cybele malinowski says:

Dr_Watso says:

Thomas Hawk says:

Dr_Watso says:

Thomas Hawk says:

Dr_Watso says:

jakerome says:

The Searcher says:

Thomas Hawk says:

jakerome says:

Rev Dan Catt says:

Mazda6 (Tor) says:

Sbocaj says:

paladinsf says:

phrenophile says:

The Searcher says:

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