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I Was Assaulted By This Man Who Identified Himself as a Police Officer and Refused to Provide Me Identification, Photography is Not a Crime

Bigot
"A portrait of the thug as an old man"
look, a waddle
You should have told him "Sexy bluetooth earpiece!". I'm sure that would have appeased him.
I reallly really despise people that wear these things around all the time.
for non brits or those under 25, google image search "alf garnett".
Not in the best physical shape, it must be said.
Now we all have an eye on this moron...
I Was Assaulted By This Man Who Identified Himself as a Police Officer and Refused to Provide Me Identification, Photography is Not a Crime by Thomas Hawk.
So I know that I write a lot about being harassed for my photography on the streets of San Francisco and for some this story may be getting old. I shoot every day though and at least once or twice a month have a run in with a security guard or authority figure of some sort somewhere. Typically I can resolve these episodes on my own amicably with the individual involved, but sometimes things go over the line. In the past year I've blogged about three of these incidents that crossed the line. One was when a security guard at One Bush was following me around the sidewalk trying to put his hand in front of my camera and not allowing me to shoot the building. Another was when the Sheriff's Department detained me and ran what I consider an illegal background check on me merely for shooting near the train tracks in Oakland. Another was when a particular nasty altercation took place between me and a security guard who came out of 45 Fremont middle finger a'blazin' to insist that I not shoot that building.

But today's episode was the worst I've encountered so far. Ironically enough, it occurred once again outside of 45 Fremont Street. This was even after I spoke with a PR person from the Shorenstein owned property who apologized to me for my treatment and assured me that I would find a more tolerant atmosphere at that property in the future.

Today, aqui-ali (another local Flickr photographer), helveticaneue (in from out of town) and I went out to do a bit of shooting. Since Aqui had a meeting down on 2nd Street later this afternoon we decided to head that way and shoot the Transbay Terminal. 45 Fremont was in our path and we were shooting some photos of it as we were walking by. It was then that the security guard there told us that we could not shoot the building. When I explained that we were in a public area and had a right to shoot the building he insisted and called another security guard over on his radio who also tried to get us to stop taking pictures of the building. I still refused as it is my right to shoot buildings in San Francisco from a public area.

It was at this point that things went from bad to worse. At this point an individual came over who identified himself as a police officer and told us to get out of the plaza, off the sidewalk and to physically stand on the asphalt in the street where the cars were driving by. When I tried to object this individual (who was significantly larger than me) assaulted me and forcibly grabbed my arm quite hard and pulled me towards the street. When I freed myself from his grip I told him that I was going to take his photograph. He told me that I could not take his photograph and that if I did that I could "watch what would happen to my camera."

I took his photograph anyways and that is him up there at the top of the story. Once he had us physically on the asphalt in the traffic off the sidewalk I once again asked him for his identification and asked to see his badge. He refused to provide me his identification and refused to show me his badge. It is my understanding that when someone identifies themselves as a police officer that I have a right to see their identification proving this fact. This prevents anyone from falsely impersonating police officers and abusing a false authority. I asked him at least five times to see his badge and he refused. He continued to confer with the security guards at the building though.

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(458 comments)
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cuibel  Pro User  says:

go get em. I had a simliar incident with a woman driver.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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KevP says:

You have him Thomas Hawk, he looks a shady critter, have him for assault to, find a 'no win no fee' lawyer
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Troy McClure SF  Pro User  says:

She fully supports him.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Sugar Booger says:

it's the guy from that movie and that commercial....what the hell is his name???? i hope you assaulted him back. let me know if you need some muscle on your next outing. i got yer back and i could take this guy easy.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Thomas Hawk  Pro User  says:

If anyone in San Francisco can identify him this would be helpful.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Troy McClure SF  Pro User  says:

Thomas- I'm not a moderator there, so I can't guarantee such an off-topic post would be allowed, but maybe a thread in Guess Where SF could be appropriate. It's the best collection of observant San Franciscans I know of.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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aqui-ali  Pro User  says:

This guy was an absolute jerk. I am willing to file a complaint if he is not a police officer if anyone can identify him.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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encouragement  Pro User  says:

Sounds like a new kind of "critical mass" is needed at 45 Fremont. How about dozens or hundreds of photographers who coincidentally show up to photograph a building? Don't know what critical mass is? Here's an example from San Francisco: www.shapingsf.org/ezine/transit/critmass.html
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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luzer  Pro User  says:

this seems to happen to TH alot.
i wish we had the facial recognition software the govt is working on to help in this quest...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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aqui-ali  Pro User  says:

This happens a lot to anyone who walks in *our* cities taking photos every day in *our* public sphere.

Like I do.

It happens a lot to me too, Thomas merely expresses it more.

Kudos for that.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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luzer  Pro User  says:

respect...

in NYC, i have only been stopped for taking photos in the subway system- never in public.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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aqui-ali  Pro User  says:

The NYC subway is a public place funded by public money. The ACLU had a case against the NYPD (or subway security, I can't recall for certain) and won. You have every right to take photos in the NYC subway.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Thomas Hawk  Pro User  says:

I'm planning on filling a police report . I just received an email back from my contact from my previous run in with 45 Fremont with The Shorenstein Company who told me that while his security guards witnessed the incident that it was actually the security guards at 50 Beale Street and *not* the Shorenstein guards that I had this problem with today. He also told me that he thinks this "policeman" is a security officer working for a tenant in that building. If anyone knows which tenant that this might be at 50 Beale I'd appreciate that information. I am also going to try and contact management of 50 Beale to hopefully work this situation out.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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wiseacre photo  Pro User  says:

Wow, that seems like quite the hostile street. My sister in law works at the Shorenstein company (in the PR department -- and I've done occassional design work for them). That seems abnormally hostile ... but a good story. So, that's where Wilford Brimley ended up ...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Mo Tabesh  Pro User  says:

You guys should definitely complain to the officials. This guy is NOT a police officer and should pay for his wrong-doing.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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. rupert .  Pro User  says:

what a crap state of affairs... hope that attitude isnt coming to my town anytime soon
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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msjacoby  Pro User  says:

You have a lot of experience with smoothing over people's objections to public shooting. Perhaps you could put together a nice little strategy guide on what works best. I know I limit myself on public shooting for fear of not knowing how to deal with a bad situation. I expect I'm missing out on a lot.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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sagellyn (Lynne) says:

Go Hawk. It seems to me that a guy out there as much as you is bound to run into some bizarre characters (just the law of averages). Good to hear that you are tracking him down and will be pressing charges. This kind of misdirected violence makes no sense to me!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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doofusdave  Pro User  says:

What an ass that guy must be. Kudos to you for once again standing up for yours and the rights of photographers everywhere, Thomas.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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shutrbugr  Pro User  says:

Thomas... get a load of this... look who showed up next to your "police officer friend" in my "photos from your contacts" listing! My, how the truth does bubble to the surface! It would appear that your "buddy" is in cahoots with old Lucifer himself!

speak_of_the_devil
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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swanksalot  Pro User  says:

Really, what an ass that guy is. Also, SF seems to be a rather uptight town. Granted I don't take as many architecture photos in a month as you take in a day, but I have only been harassed once in Chicago in my 12 years taking photos here, and it was very lackadaisical harassment at that (Boeing Corp. headquarters).
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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scienceduck  Pro User  says:

from the thumb i thought this was a beautiful picture. then i read the story. very interesting and i hope the real police are helpful in identifying this "man" (not very manly action on his part).

what a shame that some people feel the need to act this way. keep up the good work thomas.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Like The Jetsons™ says:

sue the security guard company and the company itself.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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luzer  Pro User  says:

found this Photographer's Rights

Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

Hey, Thomas, I just had a similar experience. Thankfully no assault took place.

www.flickr.com/photos/phoneyman/162045769/

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

Also, definitely file a complaint. File it with the police, file it with Shorenstein, file it with 50 Beale. You don't need to know who he is; the image should be sufficient, along with Eddy's testimony. You were assaulted, and that's a crime, this thug deserves to pay. He also deserves to be convicted for impersonating a police officer, and other crimes: I'm sure physically forcing you all out into traffic is some kind of offense as well.

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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beebo wallace says:

you are such a trouble maker ... stay away when I am back in town ok ...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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ekai  Pro User  says:

Flickr downtown photo stroll! Let's get them out of the woodwork.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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The 4/30 Murders  Pro User  says:

You are my new hero.
I hope this fool goes down hard!
Keep us up to date!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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cygnoir  Pro User  says:

Thomas, I am very sorry this happened to you, and I'm glad you are taking action. I've added this photo to my faves and to my del.icio.us links in hopes of publicizing it, and will be telling my local friends.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Emperor Dalek  Pro User  says:

Thomas: Have you also considered contacting the local media about this? Seems that, with photographs such as you have and the e-mails you've talked about, this would be the sort of investigative report that the local news would love to do. At least, "Harrassment of Local Photographers" would be something that would make the news here in New Orleans...

Best of luck to you, friend.

- Tony
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Planet Vicster  Pro User  says:

I've also faved it and will add it to my del.icio.us links as well (good idea, cygnoir).

I hope you got photos of the bruises (did anyone get any of him assulting you?).
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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goodsista  Pro User  says:

Stop, you're reminding me of the Stanford Prison Project! Go get him, Tiger!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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pfeyh  Pro User  says:

I'm sorry this happened to you. This policy of companies seems strange and unnecessary. The actions of this particular person seem excessive, disturbing and probably illegal. I've been talking to people I know about it because it bothers me that I might be asked not to take pictures of a building in the middle of the city in the middle of the day.

This may soon be one of the most photographed spots in San Francisco.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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kinoshaman  Pro User  says:

If you are passing the hat to get enough money to find out who the jerk is...I will throw in a buck!

I am a big guy and hate to be told what to do. Let me know next time you are going to 45 Fremont.

In fact maybe there should be a 45 Fremont Flickr Friends Foto Day! Thousands of cameras taking millions of pictures posted on billions of blogs read by trillions of people.

I'm so there!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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EyeCon  Pro User  says:

As someone who's also been harrassed for taking pictures, i sympathize. this is the worst kind of harrassment, because it's not the typical case of someone whom you made self-conscious by taking his/her photograph. it's someone using his authority illegally against you. and for what? for shooting a building??. in other words, this guy is a bully, and he should be taken care of (legally, i mean). hopefully this case will make some waves and set an example for others.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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tiangotlost says:

Tom,

Do you think he would bother you if you would disguise yourself as a tourist?

I am a Chinese-American, therefore the stereotypical thing for me to
do is having at least one camera with me at all times.

I rarely get harassed when I take photos of any structure. I have even taken photos in museums where photography were prohibited (for some unknown reason).

I did once had to erase a couple of photos from my Canon when I was passing through U.S. Customs at PHX because I took photos
of Customs Agents.

Is this some kind of discrimination against White photographers
(assuming you are White)?
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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silentdream  Pro User  says:

Wow, it's the first time I'm reading about this kind of incidents... I just can't understand... Isn't Amerika the land of freedom?

I've never encountered this kind of behavior in Europe. I just can't imagine that people aren't allowed to take pictures of public buildings. This is just sad...

Don't let these fools stop you.

Keep up the good work! You're pictures are the best! :-)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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suffe  Pro User  says:

Nice portrait though. =)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Oyvind Solstad  Pro User  says:

Please post to Photography is legal...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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fcourt says:

Tom, what di you do his neck? it's gone
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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torbakhopper  Pro User  says:

th on the prowl
gotta love those folks who take the high road of moral superiority and go claiming higher connections

the second that man laid hands after falsely IDing himself is the second that man breaks the REAL law!!!! i have run into those people before -- little mean people inside a universe of personal hostility
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Poagao  Pro User  says:

If you haven't filed a police report yet, you should do so ASAP, or else they'll have really beat all of us.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Tattered Coat says:

good luck, and don't let the jerks of the world get you down. it's impressive that you managed to get such a great photo of this guy at such a tumultuous moment.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Alexandru Savu says:

That's sad man... plain sad.
Where's the freadom in this country...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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ManWithCamera says:

@fotogail: good idea! Fav'd!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Mo Tabesh  Pro User  says:

fav'd!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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dlemieux  Pro User  says:

woah. that's really messed up.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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tysonwilliams.com  Pro User  says:

Some people...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Nolan Willis says:

So this is what an anal polyp looks like...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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acshepard  Pro User  says:

Are you sure Wilford Brimley wasn't mad about photos but angry you didn't eat your oatmeal?
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Sugar Booger says:

Wilford Brimley! thank you, aschepard! that was driving me crazy.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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once and future says:

step up, make a change!!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Thomas Hawk  Pro User  says:

Ok, time for an update. I did a number of things today with regards to my situation here. I get into work early before the police department opens but I just got back from my lunch break where I did the following.

1. Filed a police report. The case has been assigned to an Officer O'Reily. I have his phone number and will be checking in with him on the progress. I also confirmed with the desk officer at the Tenderloin Police Station (the closest to my work) that if a citizen requests ID from a police officer that an officer is required to provide it. This officer also told me that it is department policy not to touch someone without first showing your badge. He told me that he did not think that this individual was a police officer and that he did not recognize him.

2. I stopped by the building and spoke with Brad Meyers, the property manager. According to Brad, the individual in the photograph as well as the security guard assisting the individual in the photograph do not work for the building. Brad told me that he believed that the individual who assaulted me worked for Bechtel but did not know his name. Brad also appologized to me for the incident and told me that photography in fact is allowed in the public park area next to 50 Fremont. He said that occasionally protocol will be to have a photographer sign a waiver to release the building from any liability should they injure themselves but that it was not protocol to force photographers into the street as had been done to me. He has put a call in with Bechtel's security and is going to follow up with me later.

Brad also told me that Bechtel does not own the building but is a tenant.

3. I spoke today with Mike Meehan who is Vice President and Assistant General Council for Allied Barton Security Services, the company that employed the gentleman who originally requested that I not take photographs. Mike is on the East Coast and has put a call in to his West Coast office to try and determine what happened from their perspective. He is going to be in contact with me and will follow up with me on this. I asked him if he would provide me the name of the individual for my police report if he is an employee of their company and he said that he would need to take that under advisement.

Will continue to update with details as available.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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pfflyers1 says:

Yeah Baby, get all rilied up !
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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shutrbugr  Pro User  says:

Glad to hear there's been some progress.

I'm all for visiting San Fran if everyone decides to show up for the suggested flickr meet!

I wonder if the airlines give Frequent Flickr miles for emergencies such as this?
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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irishgypsy says:

probably a rent-a-cop. but, a good shot. he really nailed the asshole pose.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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he who shall  Pro User  says:

I feel more and more free with each passing day. NOT!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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ehoyer  Pro User  says:

thank you for pursuing this. viva the first amendment, or what's left of it.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

why photograph that building? seems almost like asking for trouble, not that it makes that guy's actions right but i can't think of any reason why i would want to photograph the Bechtel building...other than to provoke...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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the3beers says:

i keep a copy of this in my camera bad just in case www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf (havent had to use in thank goodness but probly just a matter of time) also there is a good interview with that Attorney at www.imagingsecrets.com/?p=90 but good luck with frying that fat bastard and hope my links help some one out there
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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willy gil  Pro User  says:

good to see progress, and thanks thomas in name of photography. dont discard the media option, this would not only show the individual who abused but many who could do so that limits do exist aswell as consecuenses.
you constantly provide many of us with amazing scenes of sucha a wonderful city, and the enjoyment of this should not be affected by abusive ignorants.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

Awesome! This image is top o' the charts in "Interestingness"!

That'll learn 'em.

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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kainet  Pro User  says:

good job, keep it up! These assholes need to be exposed. And a photographer's meeting there would be nice :))
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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ManWithCamera says:

I'm a couple of hours from San Francisco. I'd love to join a Flickr mob, shooting the building, but I wouldn't be able to take a day off from work until mid-July. Good to see progress, Thomas. This will certainly be a building to photograph the next time I am in town. Hmm... LinuxWorld should be coming up in a couple of months... that might be a good excuse...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Troy McClure SF  Pro User  says:

Tristan Tom, Why is really beside the point, but TH has demonstrated many times over that the most boring subject can be transform into something quite beautiful in the right shot.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Heaven Can Wait says:

porkchops & applesauce
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Finiky  Pro User  says:

Go get 'em!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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"M" PEARL  Pro User  says:

"Porkchops & Applesauce" - you made me lose it - ha ha, what a great sense of humour!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Carrie Taylor  Pro User  says:

Keep up the fight...you're right. *What the heck?*
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

it's true that 'why' he was photographing there isn't really the issue but one has to wonder, if he's been assaulted at the exact same location previously, and he doesn't want to be assaulted again, he wouldn't go there again and photograph.

unless he wanted to provoke another incident.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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encouragement  Pro User  says:

Okay San Francisco and other California Photographers. Let's Roll (errrrr, digitize)! Put your words into action. I've started a new Flickr Group to get our SF meet underway. The group is called Photo MOB(ilization). Here's the link.

www.flickr.com/groups/photomob/

IN THE GROUP TOPIC SECTION, provide your input on DAY OF WEEK and TIME OF DAY best for you. Only when we have a majority input will we set a date for best turnout. Email your local friends of this group and topic. GO NOW!

This group is also for other national and international MOB(ilizations).

Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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jasperroz  Pro User  says:

WoW! Such excitement. Good for you Thomas. Dont back down...............
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

POONDOG [deleted] says:

This guy is really starting to scare me
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Ten Directions  Pro User  says:

Jesus!! hope you heal up soon.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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ajschroetlin  Pro User  says:

Thanks for sharing the story. All of us should know our rights and stick of for them. Ditto to carrying your rights on paper. Sorry you had to go through this.

Yes, a police officer has to show you ID. We have had issues in Colorado with people posing as police and pulling people over. One person was killed. The new policy is, if you are afraid it's not a cop, you are advised to drive straight to the police station and you will not be charged with "fleeing" if it is a real officer. They have stopped using "undercover" cars for traffic work.

This guy was no law-dog. Maybe the "head" of security. Sounds like another kind of "head" to me :)


I can't imagine what it is like on the coasts, since 9-11. I can't park next to a dam, a dam I've parked next to for 10 years, because it is a "possible " terrorist site. In Colorado! That seems to be the new reasoning behind everything.

Keep up the good fight. We are loosing our rights in this country and it is up to us to do something about it. We have to document it!
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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SF buckaroo  Pro User  says:

he looks like a lovely man
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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evie22  Pro User  says:

I think you should also let City Hall know that this person was impersonating one of the city's officers while he refused to show ID, physically assaulted you and engaged in reckless endangerment by making you stand in traffic. Perhaps a call to one of those news stations -'7 on your side' comes to mind', would spur someone to act a little more quickly, with so much publicity.
This creep should at least have a misdemeanor assault charge on his record to think about next time he assaults someone.

And, Triston Tom - you have completely missed the point here. If you want an answer to 'why?' -because he can, and his tax dollars allow him to stand on a public sidewalk. Your saying that this attack was provoked is stunning to me...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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encouragement  Pro User  says:

to Triston Tom ... also, if you read the whole story, TH took responsible steps to resolve the first incident. I believe TH thought that no confrontation would occur when he went back ... as he has the right to do.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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stechico  Pro User  says:

All the best Mr. Hawk! Keep us updated.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Rainman662 says:

The guy was probably just hacked off 'cuz he came in 2nd again in this years Bay Area Pie Eating Contest
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Vidiot  Pro User  says:

Nice shot -- even though it was taken on the fly in the middle of an ugly incident, it's a great portrait.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

all i can say is it takes two to tango.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

Tristan, but it only takes one to take an ass-kicking: take your pick.

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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aqui-ali  Pro User  says:

Tristan,

In tango there is always someone who leads. When the person who is expected to follow doesn't the dance becomes something other than what was intended.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Rainman662 says:

@ Tristan: I live in a pretty rough neighborhood. Let's say I surprise a burglar outside my home, and he runs off.

You're suggesting that if the next burglar who comes along cracks me over the head with his flashlight while making his getaway, that it's somehow *my* fault because I should have known better than to be outside my own home where such things had happened before?

Idiocy.

Give it up dude, you're just plain wrong on this one
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

i know i won't be going anywhere near 50 Beale St. any time soon. last thing i want is for that scary lookin guy to approach me. i don't care if he's in the wrong, i still don't want him near me.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

rainman, in your situation i would suggest you move.

but in this situation he did not surprise a robber. it is more like a guy's car was stolen in a certain part of town once, and the guy goes back to the same location again and parks his car there just to see if his car would get stolen again. and it does get stolen a 2nd time.

certainly the guy had every legal right to go back to that area again if that's what he wanted to do, and it was certainly and undeniably wrong that his car was stolen yet again. but that doesn't mean it was a smart thing to do.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Rainman662 says:

Well, color me surprised

How exactly do you suggest that we as a society 'move' away from public spaces?
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

mediahound/Tristan, what you are doing is a subtle form of blaming the victim. There is no ethical basis for your argument, no matter how reasonable sounding you think it is.

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

point taken. all i'm saying is that i personally wouldn't go near that building, that guy is scary looking. not that i or anybody else shouldn't have a right to if they want to.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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torbakhopper  Pro User  says:

i think there is a great story to portray mediahound's position

there is a crazy man in the alley and the students try to pass him, but every time they do, he kicks them and beats them

when they see the master coming down the street, they are pleased to see what he will do. upon seeing the crazy man, the master decides another route will do just as well

i think it's about picking battles and fighting them

i'm glad TH is doing this. i support his right to photograph OUR world and to document what is taking place

if he wants to walk down the alley with the mad man, i want him to be as best protected as possible and i want the necessary forces to have to deal with the mad men -- it's their job and they are paid by society to roust out the mad men

keep up the work, TH
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

Yeah, so the moral of the story is to let the madmen take over.

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

that's sorta my point, let the authorities handle it.

instead of provoking the guy by taking his picture multiple times after being asked/told by the guy not to take his picture, he could have whipped out his cellphone and called the police saying he is being (or was just) assaulted by someone he believed falsely claiming to be a police officer. The police (authorities) would have shown up and taken care of the guy and he could be behind bars right now. because he didn't 'do the right thing', a possible criminal is at still large.

further, how is continuing to photograph someone against their will not provoking them?
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

I don't think we read the same story of events mediahound.

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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aqui-ali  Pro User  says:

Tristan: you miss the point. No one was seeking provocation. We happened to be at the same place, in a *public* area doing nothing illegal. Thomas' previous hassle was with another security guard from another building, on the same plaza (these 2 buildings share the same public space).

When this individual approached us we attempted to tell him of the previous experience as well as the fact that the PR department had apologized and admitted that it was permitted to take photos there. He did not listen and instead chose to act as he did.

He stated he was a policeman. Upon our request for his ID he refused.

Thus he was acting illegally, for reasons made explicit above.

And you say we should move on?

Incidentally, a complaint has been filed, and action will be taken. It was hard to do so at the time with this individual was forcing us onto the sidewalk, and claiming that we could not take pictures there.

"Moving on" would only allow this atrocious behaviour to become the norm. It is important that in not become so.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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*phototristan  Pro User  says:

"And you say we should move on?"

uh, when did i ever say that? don't put words in my mouth please.

i do and am saying that you should have called the police right then and there. if anyone assaults you, you should call 911 immediately. not doing so has allowed this 'atrocious behavior' to go unchecked thusfar.

had the police been called out at the time, this guy could be behind bars as we speak. i understand that the police has now been notified, after the fact. but speaking for myself, when someone assaults me, i don't think to take out my camera and start taking pictures of the assaultant. i call the cops. right away, if not from the scene of the crime, absolutely as soon as physically possible thereafter. certainly way before i post to my blog and to flickr.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

phoneyman [deleted] says:

mediahound, you have a lot of should-haves, but you weren't there so you don't know what was could-have. Save the moralizing, please, my friend.

Pierre
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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aqui-ali  Pro User  says:

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mediahound Pro User says:

"And you say we should move on?"

uh, when did i ever say that? don't put words in my mouth please.


Fair enough.

I do however object to this insinuation. No one was out to provoke anything. As stated before it wasn't even planned, we happened to go that route.

And *even* if we were intended to provoke, we weren't doing anything illegal. That's the point.

You have started the discussion with an accusation and deflected it to something that many agree with (calling the police). Fair enough, that is your perogative to choose a course of action that you feel is best when in a similar situation.

The fact that we didn't does not diminish our role as victims and this individuals role as an abuser of authority that he claimed to have.
This individual was abusing us. What should have been done thereafter is always easy to say in retrospect.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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torbakhopper  Pro User  says:

phoneyman pierre

hahaha, that was a good one, but i think we're too late, the mad men have taken over the world!

no, er, um, less seriously, i don't think there is a moral to the story

in this case, people act within the moment and i have known thomas hawk for about 15 years now, consider him a GREAT friend and have shot with him when i visited the city. he is a GENTLEMAN and a great person with soul and heart and kindness and intelligence

if someone is hitting him or pushing him, i guess it's just a good thing for all of us that i wasn't there because that guy would be choking on his blue tooth for daring to touch one of my friends in a public setting

mediahound, your points are valid, but what exactly are you after?
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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