Go to Hell-vetica

Go to Hell-vetica by Shaun Inman.

The difference between the baselines of Adobe's and Apple's default Helvetica Neue Light in the same browser are going to drive me to drink. This isn't like the 1px baseline offset when comparing Safari and Firefox. That 7 pixel difference is 20% of the typeface's ascender/cap height!

Say goodbye to alignment with other non-Helvetica Neue Light text elements on the page. So long baseline grid...

(Updated screen capture to use Helvetica Neue Light and include CSS)

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Comments

Makenosound says:

So very annoying, especially on the iCal icon.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Jon Hicks says:

I'm leaving a comment just so I can track replies! Sorry!
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

mitten says:

I don't know if this would help, but what about specifying the Postscript font name in your declaration, to force it to use one or the other? The idea (and the pitfalls with FF3) is described here in reference to using the light version of the face: Helvetica Neue Light
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Shaun Inman says:

Thanks for the suggestion Mitten. I checked the PostScript names. The regular weight of Helvetica Neue does have two distinct PostScript names (Apple: HelveticaNeue, Adobe: HelveticaNeue-Roman).

Unfortunately, the case that prompted this reduction actually requires Helvetica Neue Light which has the same exact PostScript name in both versions (HelveticaNeue-Light).

I've updated the screenshot to clarify the issue.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

datsro says:

this is not good for web development thats for sure.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

chris drackett says:

also tracking replies..
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

deceitful says:

You could try with the font replacement technique named sIFR instead that going with css specified font ? : )
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

scottjohnson says:

Also tracking, but my suggestion is to tell Apple to f*** off. Why must they break things? That seems like something MS would do.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

←JoMilla says:

Tracking Replies.. (sorry)
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Jon Hicks says:

Scott - why is this Apple's fault rather than Adobe's?
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Shaun Inman says:

Haha, I thought "Also tracking" meant that there was a difference in each typefaces default tracking (because we're talking about typography and Scott omitted the word "replies").

If you compare the baseline of the Apple version to just about any other commonly installed typeface (including the fallback Arial) you'll find that Apple's vertically centered layout is the right decision by majority vote.

I'd like to give Adobe a pass since their Helvetica Neue was digitally cut in 1988. But then Arial was created in 1982 so there's really no excuse.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Christopher Hester says:

I like the coloured CSS. What program is that?
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

scottjohnson says:

John: My bad. I think I read the diagram wrong. Now that I've had some sleep and have looked over it again, I do indeed seed that the Apple side makes more sense to me.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Shaun Inman says:

@Christopher, that's TextMate with the (I believe default) Twilight theme.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

ilovetypography.com says:

Interesting. Have just opened the two fonts in FontLab to compare. They do have different vertical metrics with the registered descender and ascender values differing by 25%. Thinking out loud really. Will take a closer look.

Guess you get the same problem when dropping "line-height"?

Worth posting this one on Typophile, I think.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Dan Rubin says:

It's a pain to be sure—every Dashboard widget that uses Helvetica Neue ends up looking weird on my system because I tend to leave the Adobe Helvetica Neue enabled. And these problems aren't just limited to the "Light" weight, either.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

Christopher Hester says:

@Shaun: thanks. I think the default skin of TextMate is white. I use Text Wrangler myself but wish it looked this good! Might try TextMate again and set the same skin you're using.
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

stuarts_just_killing_time says:

Adobe Helvetica 45 is our corporate typeface, and we've been suffering with this for years. Not only with using sites or widgets that specify Helvetica Neue, but also in flash files - we're forever getting files where text jumps around because people have specified different versions of Helvetica in their files
Posted 10 months ago. ( permalink )

kinsky says:

Personally, Id stick with Apple's version and I'll tell you why.

First, and lets be clear on this, Apple makes computers... not fonts.

Having said that, the only people that would even care about such a difference are designers for print and web. They are the ones that would not only make a distinction, but have Adobe's version on their macs because as well all know, Adobe created the font industry... so they do great fonts.

BUT, since Apple's Helvetica comes with every mac anyway, for designer or not, I'd go for the biggest bang and stick with Apple's version.

Thats my 1.78 cents worth.

PS. The same sort of silliness occurs with the TrueType vs Postscript versions of Impact.
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

Shaun Inman says:

You're missing the point kinsky. Personal preference has nothing to do with the issue. On the web, you don't have control over which version of Helvetica Neue a viewer has installed. If you design the rest of the page around alignment with Apple's Helvetica Neue's baseline that alignment goes out the window for viewer's with Adobe's Helvetica Neue. Or vice versa. There's no way to specify your preference.
Posted 6 months ago. ( permalink )

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