new israeli flag
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Comments
This is absolutely wonderful mike.
Posted 23 months ago.
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I like this one even better then the one with
the stright lines.
Posted 23 months ago.
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excellent. whered you find this? or did you
make it?
Posted 23 months ago.
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israel needs to be rebuilt from the bottom
up- not simply rebranded.
Posted 23 months ago.
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I agree Shabatai. Im hoping that other people
start understaning that too.
Edit: Not just the infrastructure but also
the mentality.
Posted 23 months ago.
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The Star of David and the Menorah are
irreplaceable
Posted 23 months ago.
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Bret, if they are irreplacable, how was I
able to replace them?
Posted 23 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
closedminded people ruin it for the rest of
us. Anyway, this is awesome, Mike. Much nicer
than the first, but both have the greatest
message. :)
Posted 23 months ago.
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i can spot you.
Posted 22 months ago.
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where can you spot me miss shanik?
Posted 22 months ago.
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if only a peaceful agreement could be reached
without having to witness further bloodshed.
civilian or not.
once the agreement is placed, i'm sure that
those of us who can be open minded and smart
enough can rebuild a state where all can live
TOGETHER under one rule and end this
bloodshed.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Mazz: Im not sure that its going to come from
the politicians. They have their own
interests and if we all suffer because of
them, so be it. I think its going to come
from a "soft revolution". The more
we undermine the powers that be by
integrating with eachother and finding out
about eachothers lifes, the more the case for
segregation weakens. The politicians cannot
impose a reality which is universally opposed
by the people (not without dictatorship
anyway).
I am not sure that a one state solution is
the answer. I think its too late for that,
there has been too much damage done but thats
for another conversation.
Posted 22 months ago.
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°Brain Storm [deleted] says:
very nice..peace for all...in this peacless
world
Posted 22 months ago.
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Can you tell me what the symbols or letters
are supposed to mean?
Posted 22 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
It says salaam, which is peace in Arabic.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Thanks Tima for the translation.
Posted 22 months ago.
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If I may quote the Qu'ran, Surah 9:29:
“Fight against such of those who have been given
the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which
Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and
follow not the Religion of Truth, until they
pay the tribute readily, being brought low.”
Why "Sala'am" in Arabic, then?
Posted 22 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
1) do not put certain words in bold to try
and support your view of a book I'm sure
you've never read.
2) not everyone that speaks Arabic is
Muslim
3)http://www.flickr.com/photos/timasaleh/28
9713815/
Allah (al ilah) means "the god"
which means that they were to fight the non
monotheistic religions. Obviously you don't
speak Arabic or you wouldn't be quoting the
Qur'an incorrectly. Which, just so you know,
was quite common. The Muslims, at the time of
Muhammad, accepted Jews and Christians as
their fellow monotheists, yet the Christians
and Jews were not so accepting of what they
saw as a new religion that was just a twist
on what they believed. Muslims believe that
if you are a monotheist, you pray, and
believe in judgement day, you will have your
reward. That is regardless of religion. So I
highly doubt you know anything about this
book you're trying to quote. Ignorance is
bliss I suppose.
Posted 22 months ago.
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(im not going to waste my time typing
"standard reply #47" to
"standard right wing mantra #6")
Why salaam? Because WE NEED TO MAKE PEACE
WITH ARABIC SPEAKING PEOPLE. Thats why.
By the way Benny, I notice that although
you are only 18 you are not in the army like
the rest of your peers. You are studying in
the Haifa Technion right? Care to explain?
Fatima, you are like the anti-racism Batman
of my photostream :) Please dont ever leave
me!
Posted 22 months ago.
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Thank you very much TimaSaleh for your
explanation. I just wish mike would learn
some patience, manners and tact when dealing
with people whose views don't necessarily
agree with his.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
Alan, Mike does have all of those things.
However, it is difficult when people come to
your photostream to criticize your work or
message to not take personal offense to it. A
lot of people on flickr could use more
manners, but Mike isn't one of them. He's
trying his best to understand the situation
and to make a difference; however, there is
no time for patience. People are dying on
both sides and it can't be solved by people
being inactive and not speaking their mind.
I think that if people would come to Mike
with an attitude of trying to understand his
opinions, which we both did even though
sometimes we dont' agree on things that
relate to Israel or political situations, he
is a wonderful person. I suggest a good look
at his profile. If people come to him in
peace, he will accept them. If they come for
an argument or immaturity, he may choose to
ignore them or argue back - but it cannot be
questioned that Mike is sincere in his hopes
for an equal coexistence and shows manners
toward most people that deserve to be greeted
kindly.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Tima: Will you marry me? :)
Alan: Are you going to Gay Pride today? Oh
no! you cant! Why? Because the state of
israel is controlled by religious zealots!
Tell me alan: What happens if a palestinian
throws a stone at a soldier? Am i correct in
saying that he gets shot in the head and the
press justifies it as self defense? What
happens if a hassidic fundamentalist throws a
stone at a soldier? How about a molatof?
I cannot for the life of me see why you are
so right wing when your political peers want
you imprisoned or worse for your sexuality.
Posted 22 months ago.
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TimeSaleh - First of all, now that I have more time,
let me apologize for quoting a book hastily,
while having little knowledge of it. Yes,
I've never read the Qu'ran; I was going for a
quick point. However, I do have several
remarks to add.
First of all, I'm well aware that not all
Arab-speaking people are Muslim. However,
Mike was suggesting an Israeli flag - and in
Israel and it's surroundings, a great
majority of the Arab-speaking people are Muslim, and if we are to make peace here
then Islam is obviously a very important
factor here.
2) I'm also aware of the quoted Surah you
posted; but, of the little I do know of the
Qu'ran, I understand it can be ambiguous on
certain issues, the treatment of Jews being
one of them. I quoting Surah 9:29 I wanted to
shed some light on one of those approaches in
the Qu'ran.
3) I also know the original meaning of
"Allah" is simply "the
God" (I'm really not as ignorant as I
sometimes sound). However, I've been hearing
many Muslim Imams (mainly extremists, but not
only) calling non-Muslims - i.e., Jews and
Christians, among others -
"heathens", and some call for
action against them, as you well knwo. I may
not know a lot about Muslim (or Jewish, for
that matter) theology, but I do know that
words can be changed in meaning, especially
when tlaking about God, and especially when
someone will benefit from changing a word's
meaning. Hence, I believe that quite a lot of
Muslims nowadays grasp the concept of Allah
as "their" god, a unique god not
like Jehova or the Christian Holy Ghost. (on
a side note, I myself am an atheist, and I
believe all these gods are the same, but I
worship none, so that has little importance).
Once again, thank you for keeping a cool
head in face of what was a somewhat
provocative comment on my side.
Which I can't say of Mike , sadly. Mike, you went straight for the Ad
Hominem attack - attacking me instead of my
comment, which is a completely irrelevant and
childish response on your behalf. First, you
quickly labeled me as "right wing",
without knowing a thing about my politcal
stand - not everyone criticizing Islam or, to
be precise, your naive (at best)
"flag", are right wing. Also, you
seem to be calling me a "racist" -
you almost offended me with this one. Once
again, don't make accusations when you know
nothing about me.
But, of course, it's ever so easy to
superficially categorize people instead of
answering them. Tempting, ain't it.
Also - what does my military service have
to do with anything ? Are you implying I cheated my way out of
conscription, so I have less of a right to
debate on the issue? Well, you could've just
asked, and I'd gladly answer, but not like
this. So, no, I won't tell you why I'm in the
Technion right now. None of your business,
honestly.
To answer your question, I was just
wondering why was it you used
"Sala'am" instead of, say,
"Shalom" - we also need to make
peace with Hebrew speaking people, you know.
And since Arabic is associated with Islam in
these parts, and Hebrew with Judaism (though,
once again, I'm fully aware they're not the
same), and with all honestly, Judaism has a
better history of being a peace-seeking
religion, especially in the last couple of
centuries (which you cannot say about Islam,
with the powerful rise of Extremist Islam in
the last decades), I just thought
"Shalom" might suit better.
Oh, and speaking IN CAPS LOCK doesn't make
you more right, just like shouting in real
life.
PS: if you're going to smear me personally,
instead of addressing my points, at least
make an effort and C&P my name correctly.
It's Beny, not Benny.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Beny, why is it you come volentaraly to my
photostream and critisise my attitude? If you
dont like it, please, there are thousands of
other blogs to visit, find one more
sympathetic to your preferred way of
communication.
OK, first off: Your comment that
"Arabic is associated with Islam in
these parts". I would approximate that
50% of the jewish population of Israel can
claim to have one or more grandparent who
spoke Arabic as their first language. Do you
think that this demographic associate Arabic
with Islam? I would say that it is more
accurate to say that YOU associate Arabic
with Islam. I certainly dont. I associate it
with Arabs.
Now skipping past points two and three
which are simply attempts to wriggle out of a
difficult situation that you put yourself in
we get you your critisism of my choice of
language. There are more than 4000 distinct
languages spoken by the inhabitants of this
planet. Would you suggest that I find the
word peace in every one of them and cut 4000
stencils? Can you imagine how much my wrist
would hurt after all that cutting? Where
would I keep them all? Who would pay for all
those cans of spray paint?
If you feel the desire to communicate your
wishes for internal peace by copying my idea
and substituting the word "salaam"
for "shalom" then please, feel
free. I recommend Montana spray paint in the
color "Horizon". However dont tell
me that my creative decisions are incorrect,
the whole point is that they belong to me.
Would you tell Van Gough that he should
have used a table instead of a chair or Andy
Warhol that he should have used block
printing instead of screen printing? If you
feel the need to misquote the Quran with the
implication that mulsims are xenophobic
murderers then dont ask a stranger to help
you communicate it. Do the job yourself!
For the record when I was 18 I also had the
arrogance to face someone twice my age and
assume that they didnt know shit. Luckily
your twenties will bring some humbling
lessons.
Oh, and speaking in bold doesn't make you more right, just like
shouting in real life.
Posted 22 months ago.
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You posted political content. I left a
political commentary. What's the point of
commenting on political ideas with which you
agree? That's fruitless.
Good point about Arabic-speaking Jews, but
as you mentioned, that was two generations
ago. For some reason, I've never met a Jewish
person of my generation who knew the language
of his grandparents, Arabic. They could've
learned it, just as I've learned Russian, and
just as I will teach it to my children, in
due time. They chose not to, in great
numbers. I believe that means something, so,
I stand by what I said, with a correction -
Arabic is associated with Muslim and Druz
(wrong spelling?) people.
(Points 2 & 3 weren't 'wiggling' out of
anything, unlike yourself. Moreover, you
might have noticed they weren't directed at
you, so please do allow TimaSaleh to retort.
Thank you.)
Look, don't pretend to be naive. You used
Arabic since it's the spoken language of the
people with whom you want Israel to make
peace. You're discussing Israel and the
neighboring Arab states, so there are only a
few languages to be brought into
consideration here - Hebrew, Arabic, maybe
Farsi, and the tongues spoken by the jewish
immigrants. I'm trying to point out there's
no reason for an Israeli flag to bear an
Arabic word (note - since I have no idea
about what you're aiming at with your
"Rebranding Israel" project, since
the site was down, I'm judging this as a real
proposition for a flag).
I was never criticizing you creative
decisions; as I've pointed out, I'm judging
this as a political stance, not a work of
art. Hence, it can't be compared to Van
Gough.
For the record, while we're on the subject,
I don't bring age into account at all when
debating on something. People should be judge
in merit, not on irrelevant points. I'll
listen as readily to a 10-year-old boy as to
a 70-year-old professor, if he's making a
rational, well-established point. Which you
aren't. What you are doing, is proving that
your twenties have provided you little
humility.
Posted 22 months ago.
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You called me a right winger and racist, as
well. But, even with Timna's defence of you,
someone who titles a photo, "helipcopter
on its way to drop bombs on gaza"
certainly must be immature and uneducated.
Tit for tat. OK?
Posted 22 months ago.
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Hey benny. would you like alans phone number?
You seem to have much in common.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Your comments just reinforce my above
mentioned opinion of you.
Posted 22 months ago.
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so if you dont like it alan. Please, by all
means fuck off an find somewhere else to
pollute.
Mazz: Can you see the obsticle to peaceful
agreement now? You are witnessing the voice
of the mainstream israeli.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
Okay, it's time to stop you guys. This is
getting out of control. Alan, your remarks
have been no better than Mike's. He's fed up.
He's fed up of people coming to his stream
and putting comments on a message of peace
that I find quite appauling. It's disgusting
to think that someone would take this and say
that he shouldn't have used Arabic. I'm
sorry, that makes me sick. That frame of mind
makes me absolutely, positively, 100% sick to
my stomach. You know why? Because I know in a
world and region where people can't even
accept a message of peace, you will never
have peace. I want it for you, I want it for
Palestinians, but it won't happen with this
type of attitude. It just won't happen...and
that makes me completely depressed.
And as for the argument about
"extremists" taking
"Allah" to solely mean the Muslim
God, it just wouldn't work. It would be
contradictory and wouldn't make any sense at
all. I'm not saying this to be rude, but you
really should read it if you want to
criticize it. I can't possibly criticize the
Bible, Torah, or even the Qur'an for that
matter, because I haven't read enough of
them. But as for the term Allah within the
Qur'an, it cannot be taken to simply mean
Muslim God. If anything, the only other way
people can take it is that they believe in
the same God...which would still go against
the way in which it has been quoted here.
Once again, this has gotten completely out
of control, and although I think you should
take it down a little Mike...I understand why
you're so fed up. I could never survive with
the majority of people having a state of mind
that won't even allow them to accept
peace...so you being there says a lot about
you kiddo. Hang in there. The image is
beautiful...any critique of it, or the
message, is absolutely ridiculous and
immature.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Thank you Timna for your measured response.
But please don't lower me to Mike's abusive
level of language. "Fuck" and
"pollute". Really. That is just
declasse. My only comment of the flag was
to ask you the meaning of the word. No
mention of correct language, etc. I just
hope the Palestians will come to their
senses, renounce violence, make compromise,
and use it as the banner of their new nation.
Mike, since you tagged me "mainstream
Israeli", I thank you for the compliment
after all the previous refuse you hurled at
me.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
Alan, the problem is not the language. Some
people just use curse words more than others.
I don't take offense to that. I do, however,
think that you need to realize it is not only
the Palestinians that need to renounce
violence. Militant violence is no less right
than military violence that is not measured
and kills innocent civilians on a daily
basis.
I'm sorry that we cannot agree on that, but
the fact that violence needs to end is
something we can all agree on.
Posted 22 months ago.
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During all the time that I have been here I
have never once seen a Palestinian point a
gun at an Israeli......
Posted 22 months ago.
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Too busy strapping bombs on their bodies or
firing kassam rockets. You don't need a gun
to kill innocent civilians. But with your
tunnel vision you can't even notice the
armaments pouring into Gaza through tunnels.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Am exerpt from the documents of Breaking the
Silence:
"There was an attack on 6 people here
at ‘443’ (designation of our position, or
our-held hilltop), 6 soldiers from the Corps
of Engineers. Some terrorist arrived at a
(our) checkpoint and killed 6. That evening
we were rushed off to a room. Suddenly our
squad commander came from some two-minute
long briefing saying ‘Listen….we are
doing…our action is a revenge. We are going
to kill 6 Palestinian policemen somewhere,
revenging our six they took down’. There were
about 4 positions beyond our ‘443’ under the
control
of Palestinian policemen, and we were sent
to each of these positions to ‘liquidate’ the
Palestinian policemen there. Our briefing was
also about 2 minutes long, defining our
action as a revenge,
while I was still deliberating, asking
‘what had they done?’ ‘who are they?’. The
answer was: Palestinian policemen. On my
question ‘what did they do?’ the answer was’
there was a suspicion that the terrorist who
killed our 6 came
through that (Palestinian) checkpoint.
Suspicion, but no concrete evidence. But I
was told: it doesn’t matter; they took six of
ours, and we are going to take six of
theirs."
Would you like me to carry on with the
desription? Would you like to know how 3
unarmed and innocent policemen were chased,
cornered and gunned down in cold blood? Would
you like to hear some of the other chilling
contraventions to international law and basic
human rights? My desktop is full of
doccuments such as these. I will gladly
share.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Fatimah . [deleted] says:
But Alan, you also have tunnel vision. You
cannot critique someone for something you
yourself are guilty of. You ignore the fact
that Israel's IDF is constantly guilty of
murder with no justification and/or cause.
I'm not trying to convince you to change your
mind, maybe just open it up a little bit.
And Mike isn't for suicide bombers. I
believe one of his closest friends from
Israel was actually on a bus when it
exploded. Just because he is against Israeli
war crimes or murder, doesn't mean he agrees
with suicide bombing.
Posted 22 months ago.
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Thanks Tima and Mike for your comments.
Posted 22 months ago.
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This thread is closed. Any further posts will
be deleted dispite my feelings about
censorship. I am doing this because I feel
that further dicussion brings us further from
resolution rather than closer to it.
Benny and Alan: Please note that although I
have no wish to ban you, I politely rquest
that you do not post to my photostream
anymore. I ask this because of the effect
that your respective behaviours have on the
atmosphere of coexistence that I am trying to
foster. I also ask that neither of you post
on my photostream covertly using flickr
accounts created for the sole purpose.
Posted 21 months ago.
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I know this has for you mostly a political
meaning, but I was attracted to the picture
by the way it is beautifully composed.
Let me add, hoping not to be censored :) ,
that on flickr I discovered an Israel I
didn't know from the media, and that makes me
more hopeful.
Posted 18 months ago.
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in a country of 6 million people, theres 6
milion realities right? the media only shows
one or two.
Posted 18 months ago.
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