Fading patriotism

Patriotism is such an empty word for me, and I wish it wasn't. I wish I understood what drives people to proclaim their love for a Country, and hold it more important than their love for people.

I've been struggling to come to terms with this word, because it's thrown about a great deal in recent times, and it's been used to justify all kinds of questionable actions.

In my home Country, Italy, patriotism is somewhat linked with Fascism, which really was responsible for pushing a nationalistic ideal and identity on an otherwise regionalistic populace. In America it is not so: the American flag is an ubiquitous symbol, with positive associations in most people. But if the Italian flag were to be used in the same context, most people would feel it smacked of Fascist nostalgia... at least, I would.

So what does "being patriotic" mean? Thinking your Country is great? Defending it with your life? Or with the life of other people? Buying Chevys? Upholding ideals of freedom and equality?

uhmmmm.... that last one sounded good, I think I'll go with that!

[Added to Cream of the Crop as my most favourited.]

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Comments

Caol Kailash says:

It's an attempt at making yourself "one of the guys." And I really do think that part of the reason American Patriotism is viewed internally as different than in other countries is because we haven't had the same history as others, like Italy. Because we haven't had someone like Mussolini lead our country in such a way, or someone like Hitler who claimed that we are superior and used that as a way to justify actions and wars.

Well, perhaps we do currently have something similar. But we just don't yet have the hindsight and ability to look backwards and see "Oh shit! We fucked up big time and this is how we started, let's not fall into that trend again."

One day, perhaps...
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

ilmungo says:

That is an interesting view, that patriotism depends on the previous history of the Country. I hadn't thought about that. I feel that there is something more deep-rooted, though, that makes Americans feel strongly about their Country, and Italians not so much...

Thank you for taking the time to look and comment!
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

Clearly Ambiguous says:

Wonderful photo.

I suspect many peoples around the world feel strongly about their country as well, although americans so seem to have a rather obnoxious fervor toward theirs. Seems to be an extention of their family, their friends, their cities. It's sad that we feel the need to judge ourselves against others. Perhaps as the world grows smaller, we'll be more connected, and more tollerant. One can hope.

Reminds me of a methodist hymn...

This is my song (sung to Finlandia)

This is my song, O God of all the nations,
A song of peace for lands afar and mine.
This is my home, the country where my heart is;
Here are my hopes, my dreams, my holy shrine;
But other hearts in other lands are beating
With hopes and dreams as true and high as mine.

My country's skies are bluer than the ocean,
And sunlight beams on clover-leaf and pine.
But other lands have sunlight too and clover,
And skies are everywhere as blue as mine.
Oh, hear my song, O God of all the nations,
A song of peace for their land and for mine.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

kelsana says:

Love for country is love for people. Not only your own but for those you have taken in to protect. Patriotism is a good thing. It may be tarnished from time to time by people like Bush but at the root of it all is the people. He will be gone in 2 years and hopefully we will move forward.

Yes I'm an American, and I don't think my Patriotism,love for people and country is obnoxious at all. Why should someone think it a negative thing...I just don't get it at all.

Wonderful Photo
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

My Brother Godzilla says:

Congrats on the homepage posting.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

PAИ says:

Patriotism makes you see the world as a place divided in countries, where u forget the people who populate them, the really important thing.
In spain there's also this shitty patriotism, that doesn't drive anywhere, all the opposite, it's against giving chances to other nations as Catalunya or Pais Basque, what drives to conflict.
In American case seems bigger, like there's a country over the rest of the world; bad to forget the origins, bad to forget before was no country and before the grandpas of this now patriotics had home somewhere else, in a non North American country.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

Quereco says:

great shot and title!
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

The Meatball says:

"When facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag." - Huey Long
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

Ale* says:

nice image, complicated but intriguing questions ..
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

ilmungo says:

Wow, thank you all for taking the time and effort to think about this and comment on it. I appreciate it very much, and the feedback is making me feel less uncomfortable about feeling odd about patriotism.

@Clearly ambiguous: That's a very nice song. It is perhaps a more "healthy" take on patriotism, the idea that love for your own country should be counterbalanced by the realization that other peoples elsewhere feel just as proud and sentimental about their own skies and green pastures (or deserts, whichever the case may be).

@kelsana: I guess my point was that often patriotism is about the love for Country over the love for people, at least implicitly. The problem with that, in my opinion, is that the idea of "Country" is a very fuzzy one, and it's often been used to justify all sorts of questionable, when not downright despicable, actions.

@The Meatball: nice quote!

@crazysax9: surely you don't mean the flickr homepage? my picture is not on that, is it?
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

kelsana says:

Americans receive their voting ballots in several languages. We are a melting pot and I have been told by refugees that no country goes out of it's way more than the USA to allow them to keep their culture.

Ballots and voting material come in not only Spainish but Korean, Mandarin, Cantonese, and Vietnamese. Some of the languages I don't even recognize but they are plentiful.

I'm not saying xenophobia doesn't exist to some degree but it is less obvious especially in my area. Most of my friends that are not citizens still enjoy their culture but they are only too glad to add the American part of their life to it.

We are all people and we have the same aspirations basically. To take care of our families, be loved, and healthy in the doing. We can pretend there are no lines but obviously there are. Just like you enjoy going home to your city, village or town of origin. That is just human nature to enjoy the familiar and the good memories tied to it.

The lines don't have to be a bad thing. It's people that make them so with their hateful actions. We should revel in the differences and unique cultures that we all bring to the table. See it as a good thing, a wonderful thing for us all to enjoy.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

NoTangoJustCash says:

This is an ace photo. I like the thought process behind it too. It's very provocative and very meaningful in today's context.

As a Brit, I can sympathise with the racial undertones that national flags portray. The use of the Saint George's flag and the Union Jack have more recently been used to stir up hatred for others and both can be seen as a reminder of centuries of British imperialism and opression. Moreover, the significance of national boundaries is becoming increasingly blurred with the emergence of multinational companies and globalisation, often having more power and generating more money than whole countries themselves. Perhaps it is company logos that best represent a nation's values, just look at golden M's and McD's.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

[Meme] says:

questa foto e' davvero stupenda...
e hai detto cose sante parlando del patriottismo inteso in Italia
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

NavaInstigator>>> says:

I Like...I like!...
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

c.l.e.m. says:

Luigi, did this photo of the card I gave you make it onto the flickr homepage? Because that would make me so happy and also secondarily/minorly famous! And it would also make me very proud for you! It's a beautiful and creative shot.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

Cilest says:

cool shot, great title!
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

ilmungo says:

I am so glad about all the issue this image is raising, I wasn't expecting this much feedback but I'm delighted by it.

@kelsana: I think that what you are describing is one of the most uplifting aspects of America, which is its welcoming attitude towards foreigners. I should know, I am one. Of course this attitude comes with caveats and exceptions, but for the most part, I've never known another Country where foreigners are made to feel welcome and part of the overall community as much as the States. I go about my daily life never being reminded that I am Italian and not American, never being made to feel that I don't belong.

On the other hand, when my wife, which is an Italian citizen and speaks the language, but wasn't born and raised in Italy, comes to Italy, she always gets the feeling that deep down people (especially older, more traditional people...) think of her as a "stranger"...

So that's good. However, I think patriotism is something different. I think that patriotism carries an implicit antagonistic flavor. One is patriotic against something else. There is that sense of defending your Country, therefore postulating an enemy, whether real or ideal. It is that aspect of patriotism (and I think it is the core one) that I find alien to my sensibility, and somewhat troubling.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

ilmungo says:

@clementine: I really don't know! There was a comment earlier that hinted that that might be the case, and I've tried looking at the homepage, but I haven't seen my photo there. Of course, the homepage image is chosen randomly every time it loads, and although I've loaded it a couple of times, I haven't spent an entire afternoon making sure, you know...

So I don't know. If anyone knows either way, please let me know. I would be very excited if that were the case, obviously, but I don't want to get my hopes up...
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

kelsana says:

ilmungo...I went through the top 500 photos on the Explore interestingness page for 10/20 because I thought that is where I saw it. It was not there. It was a wonderful addition to your stream. I like photos that get people talking and exchanging ideas. We learn from each other that way. It makes the world a smaller place and people start to realize that even though we live in different countries, in many ways we are alike.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

ilmungo says:

@kelsana: thanks for the effort! i'm sure you must have found some really interesting pictures that way!...

I agree, it's been really cool to exchange ideas over a simple photograph. Inspiring, really, to make more images like it.
Posted 51 months ago. ( permalink )

jilbean3 says:

Thanks for being part of my journey! Click on the arrows below to see more of my journey!

Journey: Lovin' this Pic!
map
Posted 50 months ago. ( permalink )

hylaury {away} says:

You have made it to #1 on the 24th.

Congratulations!
Posted 49 months ago. ( permalink )

ilmungo says:

@Holly_Yvonne: gasp! that's slightly shocking, but nice! thank you for the heads up! ;D
Posted 49 months ago. ( permalink )

mimbrava says:

Thank you for adding this to the Interestingness pool.
Posted 49 months ago. ( permalink )

m0smith says:

Very interesting imagery of the flag. Thanks for sharing. I used it in my blog.
Posted 46 months ago. ( permalink )

ilmungo says:

Thank you m0smith, i appreciate you taking the time to let me know!
Posted 46 months ago. ( permalink )

Bissingerbooks says:

Hi, I'm an admin for a group called Artistic Liberty with the Stars and Stripes, and we'd love to have your photo added to the group.
Posted 23 months ago. ( permalink )

wassy66 says:

Patriotism for my country England (not Britain) will never die. I feel that europe and the United states are trying to swallow up our small country for their own economic needs. I say English and not British because for some reason the Scots and Welsh are encouraged to show pride in their national identities whereas the English are not, a case in point is when local councils during a world cup order people to take down st georges flags incase it offends other races or religions, pure stupidity.
Posted 22 months ago. ( permalink )

notusaculture [deleted] says:

American Patriotism is nothing more than a nostalgic dream of a country which no longer exist. There is such a fast difference in the level and kind of freedoms we once had. Family culture in America in no way resembles what it once was. Politicians from the Right and Left read from the same script like professional actors fooling people into thinking they are actually making some kind of choice when they vote. Like the movie MATRIX, you can taste the steak, even if it does not exist. But all dreams die. A new kind of values is coming to this country. It is a new type of horror which will be altogether very real. It makes no difference who you elect as president. I refuse to vote and be a part of this lie any longer. I was once an election offiicial!!! I went to July 4th parades. I hung out the flag. I hate this country that exist today. I pray to find a country which will let me move to and work there. Many countries are closing doors because other Americans see it too.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

ManChic says:

Great shoot... and i agree with u with the american patriotism... they love themselves to much to see beyond there noses...
Posted 13 months ago. ( permalink )

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Fading patriotism

Comments

Caol Kailash says:

ilmungo says:

Clearly Ambiguous says:

kelsana says:

My Brother Godzilla says:

PAИ says:

Quereco says:

The Meatball says:

Ale* says:

ilmungo says:

kelsana says:

NoTangoJustCash says:

[Meme] says:

NavaInstigator>>> says:

c.l.e.m. says:

Cilest says:

ilmungo says:

ilmungo says:

kelsana says:

ilmungo says:

jilbean3 says:

hylaury {away} says:

ilmungo says:

mimbrava says:

m0smith says:

ilmungo says:

Bissingerbooks says:

wassy66 says:

notusaculture [deleted] says:

ManChic says:

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