Divergence, convergence

spacial

temporal

east and west

Japan

small

culture

one place

Comparison between western and eastern way of indexcarding. Jazzmasterson is a master of indexcard.

As my indexcarding system, Japanese naturally think in time-axis, perhaps because we live in limited area of small, isolated island?

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jazzmasterson says:

It could be a question of affordances, coupled with intent: I've got a large area, and I'm mostly interested in finding patterns in the random thoughts I capture out of my brainstew. That means I spread them all out, and then pile them.

Your approach is different, but I'm always finding ideas in it to pull back into my own practice...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

hawkexpress says:

>>jazzmasterson

Thank you for the comment. I have been thinking this topic.

I'm interested in obtaining "knowledge" from my indexcarding system. I must say finding patterns is on this way.

I don't think the approach is different. In fact, I can do what you are doing as you can see in this picture.

The only difference is the "start point". I started from constructing my own huge "database" in one place (two places, in reality). Selection and making pile is the next step, where is your start point.

This is what I found a "pattern" between you and me this moment. Any other similarity or difference? :)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

jazzmasterson says:

Mine is collection into a big central inbox, like yours. I use it as a journal, too, but haven't had a good way to set up a camera to do a handwritten blog, although that was my original intent.

(You can see sketches towards something more ambitious on my photostream now.)

It seems that where we differ is in how you archive the index cards; you have those very elegant boxes, and I use them as a kind of wall-mounted display.

Personally, I feel that housing the cards away would make them fade from memory, so I keep them out where I'm reminded of what they say. This takes up a lot of wall space, but the effect is nice, I think...
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

hawkexpress says:

>>dgray_xplane

Unite digital and analog. It may be worth to show my history of fail... I made new photset here. Last year, I tried to combine digital and analog (indexcard) using Apple's Keynote, a presentation software like PowerPoint. I made indexcard template for Keynote by myself.

I use it for while, but one thing become bottle-neck to continue... You know what? A "Free-hand drawing". As you like drawing on indexcard, I like it. On computer, however, it is more difficult to draw picture than on paper by free hand. Adobe Illustrator, photoshop, pen tablet.. nothing help us because they are designed to draw "beautiful". But all we need is quick and brief drawing. This is major reason I return to analog media. I had written related issue at my blog before.

I totally agree with your comment. I found through this experience that digital technology is not perfect at all.

But I think uniting digital and analog is not dream. Perhaps we can make the world "better" :)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

jazzmasterson says:

Dave (above) uses a document-feed scanner to enter his index cards into the computer, so you get the analog capture, but digital archive.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

Edward Vielmetti says:

I've been using 5x8 cards to collect for a couple of weeks, after losing my computer for that time. They were very good companions at a conference and on a long plane trip.

A key next step is to start to get some of these into Flickr, though I find that with the large format the self-control to keep everything to be 'view public' is a bit harder. Sometimes note to self really needs to stay note to self; sometimes also these feel like note to other, since the format is postcard sized.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

hawkexpress says:

>>Edward

I think that is very good trial, and thanks to post here :)

Personally, 5x8 indexcard is too large to construct database. It depends on the person, amount of information, many factors though.

I had used B6 indexcard (2.5 times larger than 3x5 indexcard) for 5 months since Aug. 2005. I had written about 2,000 cards. After a while, I found there are two or more topics in a single card.

To construct database, however, each card must be a single record, data, piece by piece, as block of LEGO as I mention at Indexcard and LEGO. If the card is large, it is small database itself, and cannot divide. (Or physically cut the cards? ;))

Unfortunately, re-usability of my B6 indexcards are quite low, totally useless. It is like I discard 2,000 of cards.. But same time, I can say that my system with 3x5 indexcard right now is constructed on this bitter bitter experience. :)

# I also tried smaller card (name card size), but it was really too small..
# 3x5 indexcard is the best. How do you think?
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

jazzmasterson says:

I agree that 5x8 is too large for the use you're considering.

However, it's an excellent format for second-draft writing and sketching, where you synthesize ideas from multiple cards into a longer and more complex thought. I find it useful as the stage where I compose my thoughts before bringing them before others.

The 5x8 still imposes constraints, much as the 3x5 does.

Also, the 5x8 is a good format to use, with a large marker, in a shared setting; when you've written on them and posted them on the wall, you can see from far away what they say, and post-it notes don't obscure them.

It's a case of a change of scale offering different affordances. I wouldn't suggest you change to them for your current use.

As far as getting things into Flickr, Hawk, would you mind please posting photos of whatever tripod/setup you use for your "flickr me" spot on your desk? I'm building one myself.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

hawkexpress says:

>>jazzmasterson

Excuse me. About last paragraph. I read it more than 10 times, but still don't understand what is "flickr me" spot. What is that? A set up that I take a photo of indexcard? :)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

hawkexpress says:

>>Dave

I call a state of my indexcard Dock as "mixture of stone and gem". I've never think my indexcards in the Dock are all gem. However, if two or more 'stone' cards gathers, it is possible to become a 'gem'. Pattern finding, josh wrote above, is this typical example. I can't define a relative "worth" of each card. A stone posses a worth as stone, same for gem.

I understand usage of 5x8 card and the idea of "second draft". A second draft.. it sounds nice. Thanks josh :) The authors offour Japanese productivity books assume that writing a report, paper, book, etc. from the indexcards because they are professor. One of the author call the "second draft" as simply "the next step".

As you do with PowerPoint, I think we must "share" the information. The database is closed system, but we should/must share it somehow. For work indexcards, I assume to making Keynote, make a poster for conference, writing paper. For life indexcards, writing blog, showing on flickr, writing a book (someday).

I've never do "second draft" consciously, but I found it is good to polish ones ideas, increase a technique of presentation, and training of writing skill.

I don't really know the best way, too. That's is why I have written my blog not in Japanese, but in English. I'd like to share information about indexcard with people in the world. :)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

vaXzine says:

Hawk>> Thank you for 'sharing' your ideas and knowledge. You along with Jazz and Gray are an invaluable resource for me. I admire all of your brains and look forward to each one of your contributions to this universal database in the sky.

Also see Marcel's notes.
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

hawkexpress says:

>>vaXzine

Thank you. I'm happy if I could hand my cultural gene to people. :)

I also would like to thank all people who shares their photos on flickr. ;)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

RJStew says:

Thank you Josh, Hawk, and Dave for this very interesting thread. I too have experimented with an index card based organization system. I love the versatility and flexibility of them. I currently use the cards in my GTD system for lists, project planning, someday/maybe items, and collection. I like the idea of using cards for notetaking and "data storage", but have yet to find an ideal way to do this. Hawk, I especially like your tagging and archival system, but do you find it difficult to find cards quickly? Like Josh, I think I am a more spacial thinker, yet I would like to keep cards chronologically filed for simplicity.

Currently, my use of index cards is more for "temporary" data, mainly thought capture and GTD. Unfortunately, I don't really have a way of storing my captured cards. I don't have room for whole wall and, of course I could keep them in a box, but I worry about never finding them again.
If needed, I develop my thoughts and long-term reference items in a Moleskine. I index the topics of the Moleskine weekly, but this is time consuming and subject to flaws - having related data indexed in many places. The indexing is time consuming, and the Moleskine isn't as flexible as index cards.

Dave, I agree that card archiving is an issue. While I like the idea of capturing cards with a scanner, finding them later is still an issue. We live in a digital age, but I have concerns about long-term data storage - what if I want to reference a card 20 years from now? Am I worrying about this too much? Plus, I like having my data available without the internet or computer.
Oh, the things that consume our time :-)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

hawkexpress says:

>>RJStew, Dave,

I still don't know what is the best. But from my experience, Noguchi filling system didn't work on my indexcarding system. I just wrote similar topic at my blog.

As simple example, if you put today's diary to somewhere in the chronological order, it take some time to find it later ; the card become a "lost children". If the number of card is huge, it will be more difficult to break the chronological order rule.

For finding a certain card, Yukio Noguchi (1993) suggested to use time-axis search, that is your own memory. But for me, it seems don't work because I even don't remember what I wrote last day. At this moment I do review process frequently to remember what I wrote.

What is fun for me on indexcard is that it have existed for long time, but there is still a space to think how we use it :)
Posted 38 months ago. ( permalink )

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Divergence, convergence

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jazzmasterson says:

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Edward Vielmetti says:

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