Praise Moves
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"The Christian alternative to yoga."
Comments
this moves beyond the funny!
Posted 24 months ago.
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Because everyone knows yoga is Satan's
favorite method of keeping in shape (other
than Tae Bo, of course).
Posted 24 months ago.
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"basic steps to godly fitness"
lol
Posted 24 months ago.
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hahahaha...i cant stop laughing ;-)
Posted 24 months ago.
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I wonder how much is still Yoga with new
names... probably some renamed pilates moves
in there too.
Thank goodness I can finally praise the
lord *and* firm up for a sinful summer at the
same time!
too funny.
Posted 24 months ago.
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love it... :D
Posted 24 months ago.
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why do christians need an
"alternative" to yoga? is the real
thing not good enough?
Posted 24 months ago.
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I'm guessing this tape frowns upon the Lotus
position. "Too Buddhist."
Posted 24 months ago.
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OIA (Only In America)
Posted 24 months ago.
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Last time i heard about a "Christian
alternative to yoga", it was called
"Yo-God". I think this is a slight
improvement.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Actually, the "Christian"
alternative to Yoga would probably be Hesychasm . But then again, that would violate the
sacred Protestant tradition of reinventing
the wheel whenever possible.
Posted 24 months ago.
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I've known Christians who honestly believe
that yoga and meditation are strictly pagan
mystic practices, that to meditate was to
invite communion with demons and that the
public has been fooled that it's just a
harmless exercise when in fact you could be
"channeling demonic beings into your
body"!
Posted 24 months ago.
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That is very very funny.
I've had my devotional pictures removed from the renaissance group
lately, so I'm already bound for Hull.
Posted 24 months ago.
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[speechless...]
Posted 24 months ago.
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what a nut. check out the website, as
expected, its fabulously close-minded:
www.praisemoves.com/ChristianAlternative.htm
I almost did a spit-take when i read this:
"Would you like to increase your
flexibility, improve your circulation, and
enhance your level of energy? Finally there’s
a program that offers proven stretching and
flexibility exercises without Eastern influences "
The way its simply assumed "Eastern
influences" are a harmful,
unwanted side-effect of yoga -- its
breathtaking.
Might as well say "Finally: a mystic
exercise regimen by white people,
for white people!"
Christian yoga looks about as compelling as
Christian rock or Christian sex.
Posted 24 months ago.
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The whole set is fantastic, although I think
this is my favorite. Want to know the answer
to "Why a Christian alternative?"?
www.praisemoves.com/ChristianAlternative.htm
Posted 24 months ago.
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Thanks for the link. I'm rolling on the
floor!
"I’ve discovered there’s not an
infinite number of ways the human body can
move."
Now that's Nobel Price Research...
Posted 24 months ago.
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Is this something akin to "freedom
fries"? Give it a new name and it solves
all problematic associations (and makes
someone a bundle, of course).
I got the idea that we should have a
non-christian alternative to Mass, but then I
realized we already do; it's called a
"co-op meeting", complete with
restless people squirming in their seats as
an elderly gentleman in the front drones on
indefinitely about something which only
tangentially concerns anybody in the room.
Posted 24 months ago.
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her rather arrogant and condescending
rationale for an "alternative"
doesn't seem to be anything more than scare
tactics for people who already agree with
her. oooh, savasana means corpse pose and
death is scary so why would i want to imitate
death oh noes! and the same goes for cobra,
etc. further down she has rechristened Plank
as "Altar Pose," so yeah i'd say
it's the equivalent of freedom fries.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Well. That was an entertaining read.
Only in America.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Sadly, Christian Politics and Christian
Merchandising are replacing the Christian
religion.
Posted 24 months ago.
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having a religion is funny?
Posted 24 months ago.
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Cracks me up but also very sad. Must they
insist on an "alternative" to
everything? And shows such ignorance as yoga
is based on a spiritual practice. (not that
anyone has to follow that spiritual quest)
Posted 24 months ago.
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Stupidity :p
Posted 24 months ago.
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Andy I though Jazzercise was evil...
Posted 24 months ago.
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...I think her hair says it all....(see this
link photo: www.praisemoves.com/ChristianAlternative.htm )
...maybe she's hiding antennae?
Posted 24 months ago.
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My personal favorite from her web site:
A good definition of a theory is “a
supposition based on ignorance of the subject
under discussion.” Do you remember when
evolution used to be called the “theory of
evolution?” It’s seldom called a “theory” any
longer outside of Christian circles.
Interesting. But I digress…
Wow.
Posted 24 months ago.
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After all, Yoga is a gateway drug to
Hinduism.
Posted 24 months ago.
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OK, here's the clue:
"For the next 22 years I was heavily
involved with yoga, metaphysics and the New
Age movement until I came to the end of
myself and surrendered my life to Jesus
Christ in 1987."
Translation: I use to take a lot of drugs,
but couldn't handle them, and then joined a
Jesus Club, so now I found a new job in
marketing, trying to extend the Christian
brand into new markets.
A "..multi-billion dollar yoga craze
in North America..." is just to tempting
...
Posted 24 months ago.
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what a tard
Posted 24 months ago.
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Hee hee!! {:->
Posted 24 months ago.
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Ya know, I look at this and feel such a
strange combination of humor and
revulsion...this is just so wrong on so many
levels.
Brilliant photo Mark, now that I think
about it.
Posted 24 months ago.
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i bought this book, and now i'm going to
heaven.
plus, i can do the splits now, which is a
bonus,.
Posted 24 months ago.
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I just want to quote the author and say:
"Anyone want to join me in a collective,
“Yikes!”?"
Posted 24 months ago.
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An "alternative way of taking your cash,
the Christian way".
Or for those who like quoting bible
references - Matthew 21:12
Posted 24 months ago.
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This will explain why most Christians are so
bloody minded and not open to others views.
You can't possibly have an open mind because
it will lead to demonic forces taking
advantage of the vacant state. Mmm speaking
of vacant states of mind.
Posted 24 months ago.
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HA HA. CHRISTIAN ARE TEH STUPID!1 STUPID
CHRISTINS. Why do you guys have to be such
bigots?
Posted 24 months ago.
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That's hilarious on SO many levels. Oh man.
Posted 24 months ago.
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A recent Christian talk radio show that I
listen to (because it aggravates me so much
at times) had a listener ask if it was ok
that her son wanted to take karate. The
radio host (may have been Jim Dobson but I'm
not certain) said "no because it might
cause them to think more of Eastern
philosophies and less of Christianity".
Having been taking karate for 6-years now
it's exactly that kind of thought that
aggravates me so much.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Reading the link someone else posted earlier
about why she did this makes it pretty clear.
She sees the physical benefits of Yoga and
simply wanted to remove the Hindu spiritual
aspect of it (if you don't believe that Yoga
is very spiritually linked to Hindu you are
ignorant. This lady likely knows more about
Yoga than most of the posters in here).
And atheistcassi, why should Christians be
open to other views? Are you open to other
views? Are you open to Christian views?
You're a bigot and a hypocrite.
Posted 24 months ago.
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So to summarize Man or Monster above, bigotry
is not being open to the view that one should
be not be open to other views. Talk about a
Zen koan. I could take the opposite view:
I'm tolerant of any view but intolerance.
Seriously, though, there's a big difference
between laughing at a quirky viewpoint and
declaring that an entire set of religions and
philosophies are so infectiously evil that
anything that comes out of them (even the
multi-billion-dollar crazes) must be
sanitized and repackaged.
Posted 24 months ago.
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In addition to the photo, some of these
comments are pretty funny too.
And remember... HWJE? (How would Jesus
Exercise?)
Walk a lot and eat nothing but a diet high
in fish, low carb bread and wine :)
Posted 24 months ago.
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LOL! That photo and everyone's comments are
brilliant. Thanks for sharing it.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Reminds me of the Angel (tarot) cards a
friend of mine has...
Posted 24 months ago.
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A Christ approved way of toning and firming
your muscles so that in the coming War you
can help smite the atheists and other
non-believers and look good doing it.
Remember: nothing says "loser"
during a Holy War like sagging buttocks. Only
30-minutes a day under the watchful eye of
God and before you know it you'll be able to
flow from the "Walkin' Wisdom
Warm-ups" to "Lounging on the
Cross" without batting an eye. Do it for
God and do it for yourself. But mostly, do it
for God.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Well, I have to say that the concept is sound
(Yoga's dependence on mysticism is
incompatible with Christianity), the
execution is lacking.
Meh, to each his own.
Posted 24 months ago.
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I would say that living a capitalist
lifestyle is incompatible with Jesus' own
teachings.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Dear man or monster,
I am not religious at all because I admit
to being a hypocrite unlike Christians, who
are hypocrites but just don't admit it.
Signed
Atheistcassi
Posted 24 months ago.
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i would really appreciate not being lumped
together in a group. not all christians are
close-minded and hypocritcal. many of us are
very open minded and are just as offended by
narrow, disapproving view points as
non-christians are.
Posted 24 months ago.
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Man or Monster.
Don't you think it is a little closed
minded to say that all people practicing Yoa
are subscribing to the Eastern Philosophy?
It is really funny and a little sad that
people live their whole life being dictated
to by an imaginary figure!
Why do you think us heathens are always so
happy? It is because we do horrible sinful
things like have sex before marrige, drink,
sleep in on a Sunday and GASP YOGA!!!!!!!!!!!
How corrupt it all is!
Puleeease people!
By the way, going round calling someone you
have never met a biggot is probably one of
the stupidist things I have ever come across!
Atheistcassi at least has the balls to stand
up for what he/she beleives in no matter the
consequences. Lighten up!
Oh and by the way, I still piss myself
every time I think of this ridiculous,
idiotic book and all the morons who will run
out and buy it!.
Posted 24 months ago.
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It looks like she is doing a Seig-Heil there,
who is she REALLY praising? eh? Anyway, I
just wrote her an email saying that in my
opinion it looks like she is hijacking the
hugely beneficial yoga in order to sell her
christian products and that coming between
people and understanding God is actually
doing satan's work. Not that I believe in
either of them.
Posted 23 months ago.
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The pic of the book just make me shake my
head, but the comments have me rollin'.
My fiancee's brother keeps trying to slip
in the little "Portals of Prayer"
handbooks into her purse whenever we heathens
visit. It had a whole section on why yoga is
evil.
We found it quite entertaining.
Posted 23 months ago.
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You guys shouldn't mock this woman and
PraiseMoves. Really. Ms Willis claims "the Lord" gave her the idea . Now, I'm not sure whether she means the
Father, His limber Son or that slippery Holy
Ghost, but unless she's LYING or DELUDED,
it's clear that God Hates Yoga. Poke fun at
your own peril, you downward-facing dogs!
Posted 23 months ago.
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The ultimate goal of yoga is the attainment
of liberation (Moksha) from worldly suffering
and the cycle of birth and death (Samsara).
Yoga entails mastery over the body, mind, and
emotional self, and transcendence of desire.
It is said to lead gradually to knowledge of
the true nature of reality. The Yogi reaches
an enlightened state where there is a
cessation of thought and an experience of
blissful union. This union may be of the
individual soul (Atman) with the supreme
Reality (Brahman), as in Vedanta philosophy;
or with a specific god or goddess, as in
theistic forms of Hinduism and some forms of
Buddhism. Enlightenment may also be described
as extinction of the limited ego, and direct
and lasting perception of the non-dual nature
of the universe. - This is why Yoga is
considered to be ill advised for Christians.
Posted 23 months ago.
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Get thee behind, downward dog!
Posted 23 months ago.
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....I don't know what to say.
Posted 23 months ago.
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Hey atheistema! What r u a hypocrite to?
Jst wondering
Posted 16 months ago.
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cyndelu, everyone's a hypocrite on something.
Especially Christians like (I presume) Man or
Monster. It's enshrined in the Book of
Romans, one of the collection they call their
"Bible": "for all have sinned
and fall short of the glory of God."
As for Man and Monster's complaint that we
atheists are not open to "Christian
ideas," I say, balderdash! I'm as open
to them as a GOP congressman to a bribe! They
just don't bear out, that's all... :-(
Posted 16 months ago.
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This is long:
I have to say that I am new to this
website, I didn't read every single comment,
I skimmed down and read as many as I could,
and I just discovered the "Praise
Moves" website/program/dvd when I did a
search for Christian alternatives to yoga.
Having hopefully explained my
"newbieness" and my lack of
absolute knowledge in the arena of yoga, or
alternatives to... I would like to also say
that I am a Christian. That is to say I am a
friend and follower of Jesus Christ...
"I am a friend of God, He calls me
Friend."
Now I feel the need to say that I do not
have it all figured out, because I don't.
But, please, if you would ask me to listen to
your argument with an open mind, please
respect me with the same courtesy. I am an
able minded individual that makes the choice
of faith in Jesus Christ not as a way of
escaping or because I was dropped on the head
as a child or as an excuse to feel like I am
a part of something bigger than myself. I
make the choice every morning every minute
because it is Truth, He is Truth. Truth is
not relative. 2 plus 2 will always be 4
because that is true. You cannot say it is 5
because it is 5 to you and it is 12 to that
guy over there because he wants it to be. 2
plus 2 is just 4.
Now that you know where I am coming from I
feel I should also inform you incase there
are any questions about this later... I am
white. My husband is Asian-American. All of
my friends, are either multi-racial or a part
of a multi-racial relationship. (I mention
this because I will address the comments made
about the "Eastern influence.")
Now that all of that is out of the way I
feel comfortable going into my comment about
the Praise Moves.
As always, I am somewhat wary of the
Christian market. I agree with most of you
that see Christian merchandise as a
disgusting way of capitalizing on people's
weaknesses. Is that what this one woman did?
I can't be sure because I don't know her, I
didn't sit at her board meetings, and I can't
look at her profit margins and ask the tough
questions. However, do I think from a web
advertisement that I can sum up the entire
Christian belief system? No. Do I think it
is fair that Christians are all made out to
be self righteous hypocrites. No.
Unfortunately, Christians are judged very
harshly because most subscribe to a narrow
way of living. We are thought to be prude or
strange or self righteous. But what many do
not realize is that the narrow way of living
is really just a result of something larger.
Living your life so that it is well pleasing
to the Lord is a result of loving Him. If
you have a loving relationship with your
biological father you want to obey him, make
him proud of you, live a life that will bring
honor to his name, not disgrace. How much
more so when it is the Father in heaven. It
truly is about a love relationship with
someone who is very real, very alive. And we
love Him, because He first loved us.
I do not know Laurette Willis, but from
what I read I can sumise that she has a heart
that wants to make her Father in heaven proud
of her. She, having tried other lifestyles,
came to know the Lord and wanted to give her
life to Him. As a result of that, there are
things you will see if her life, Christians
call it the fruit of the Spirit. She wants
to serve Christians and non-Christians alike
in the way that she knows, using the gifts
that God gave her, her talents and her
knowledge.
I do not believe she meant to offend anyone
when references to removing Eastern
influences were mentioned. More than likely
an advertising firm was utilized to create
the buzz phrases and sentences throughout the
website. It is my belief that she meant to
introduce this program in a way that would be
accepted and inviting to those that might be
interested in using it. Who is her targeted
audience? Christians. Does that mean she
should alienate certains cultures no... and I
do not believe she meant to do that. But you
cannot simplify everything down to she has
something against the Eastern religions. As
a part of her advertisement she explains the
eastern influences, the meaning of the
phrases, the origins of some of the
guestures... and without having done a ton of
research I would venture to say she is pretty
accurate or perhaps close to being accurate.
I'll have to check this out further, but if
her information is correct than as a program
that is being offered to Christians as an
alternative to yoga which she has established
as being good for your physical body but not
appropriate in terms of the spiritual if you
are pursuing a relationship with Christ... it
is only fair that she would then separate the
two... yoga and its alternative... by saying
she is offering a program that does not have
any eastern influence.
Furthermore, I believe she is correct in
saying that the body has certain ways in
which it is designed to move. Does it really
bother anyone if she calls the plank position
the altar pose?
I have not decided if I will buy this dvd
or not. But I just thought I might offer up
some of my opinions on this topic. Perhaps,
as I have learned the hard way, it is best
not to judge someone so harshly when you
don't know them.
Please, I welcome hearing your comments.
If you feel I was out of line or harsh or
hypocritical in any way I can expect to hear
it, and I welcome the opportunity to explain
myself or ask forgiveness. Again, I simply
ask for the same respect and courtesy I
attempted to write with here.
Thank you
Posted 9 months ago.
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lemonslices,
It's very subjective as to whether she
removed "asian influences" from her
program and namings, etc. because it was
deemed harmful, evil or simply incompatible
with Christian beliefs. I won't be the judge
of that.
This statement rankles a wee bit:
"I make the choice every morning every
minute because it is Truth, He is Truth.
Truth is not relative. 2 plus 2 will always
be 4 because that is true. You cannot say it
is 5 because it is 5 to you and it is 12 to
that guy over there because he wants it to
be. 2 plus 2 is just 4."
It's great that you chose your faith, but
choosing "faith" cannot be equated
to a mathematical certainty that is provable
and measurable by all who wish to
"test" it.
Faith is exactly what you say it isn't. I
think, in my faith perhaps that 2+2=5 and you
believe it's 4, and another guy thinks it's
12. Perhaps we don't arrive at these numbers
because we wish them to be so, but *someone*
acting as a mouthpiece for a god at some
point in history devised this holy sum to
which whose followers adhere.
If we could see a divine creator in such
away that skeptics and cynics and believers
alike could independently verify and prove,
it would indeed be the case that in a faith
context 2+2=4. We cannot, so the answer to
the question of faith remains subjective to
the believer.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Dutchb0y, I appreciate your response and I do
see your point. However, I am not saying
the "question of faith" is not
subjective, that I know to be subjective. I
am saying the existence of a Divine Creator
is not subjective. That is truth. The
belief in that truth is what is subjective.
A good book to read on this topic is
"Case for a Creator" by Lee
Strobel, I'm half way through it and the
points he makes are incredible. Perhaps he
will argue the case better than I. I realize
that I cannot personally provide proof that
He exists, created the world, sent His Son,
died and rose again... but He can. He did.
Jesus had skeptics all along. Even His close
friend needed to see and touch the holes in
His hands before he would believe. And
Thomas was right there experiencing it all.
How can we more than 2000 years later be
expected to have any less doubt. We can't.
But lets compare the truth that I know to be
Christ and the truth that most scientists
endorse... evolution. Although many would
have you believe this theory is able to be
tested it is actually impossible to test. We
cannot go back in time to gather actual data
as to the conditions of the environment at
the time the nothingness became
somethingness. These conditions have not and
cannot be recreated. Every attempt fails.
But the theory is taught as truth. However,
Jesus is historically proven to be true...
even time itself is defined by Him. He is
the one person who is universally both loved
and honored, hated and mocked. How can one
man stir up so much controversy unless He is
who He says He is? Now, is the belief that
He is the Son of God subjective in terms that
not everyone will believe or admit it? Yes.
Not everyone will admit this, but it does not
make it any less true.
What are your thoughts?
Posted 9 months ago.
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o_O
Posted 9 months ago.
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lemonslices , I think you misunderstand the basis for our
(my) mockery here. I certainly respect your
right to believe in Jesus, Allah or the
Flying Spaghetti Monster. That is, I agree no
discrimination should come to you merely due
to the fact your belief. If it is harmful to
anyone it is only so to you, unless you try
to spread it around.
On the other hand, I also firmly believe
that no one's opinions or statements are
beyond criticism, including and especially
religious opinions and statements. Far too
often religious folk insist that their religious beliefs be accorded
more respect simply because they are
religious. This is, to me, unacceptable. If
someone says another person flew in the air,
we demand proof, and we mock them if they
turn out to have been taken in. How much more
should we demand proof and resort to mockery
when someone claims this, that or the other
thing is due to some invisible magician in
the sky?
As Dutchboy pointed out, faith is not
holding firm that 2+2 = 4. Rather, it is much
more like insisting 2+2 = 5. Or, more
accurately, insisting that there is no such
thing as a car, despite you and everyone else
being battered every time you or they cross
the street.
You wrote:
I am saying the existence of a Divine Creator
is not subjective. That is truth. That is inaccurate. It is probably true that whether a Divine Creator exists is a question of
truth, a question of fact, and not a
subjective matter. The claim that such a
Creator actually exists , however, is far from truth. At best it is a
controversial conclusion. At worst it is an
unsupported belief, in the face of contrary
evidence.
Most of the lines in your response above
are like this, unsupported (and to a great
extent unsupportable) claims of faith. That's
fine, so long as you don't insist they are
true and put them out there only to complain
when we question and mock.
I appreciate that you get a great deal out
of your faith, but please appreciate that to
many of us those beliefs are ridiculous,
cruel jokes that we resent being proselytized
about. We also do not appreciate such
nonsense being injected into the institutions
of science, law and politics. As just one
dual example, your lines on evolution are so
far from an understanding of what evolution
is, what science is and how it is practiced
that it is difficult to know where to start
explaining. It is also flabbergasting, set
right next to your apparent wholesale and
uncritical acceptance of a book of
fantastical and inconsistent stories written
by god-knows-who and cherry-picked hundreds
of years later to provide the most coherent
"gospel" possible with the
materials at hand.
Posted 9 months ago.
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Lemonslices, I have to say I'm with
Monkeytime.
You wrote:
I am saying the existence of a Divine Creator
is not subjective.
That is truth.
This is, as Monkeytime says, is most
emphatically not a truth. It's a question, a
hypothesis. Usually the question of a higher
power or supreme being just leads to more
questions and "answers" or more
correctly, attempts at answers (more guesses
and hypothesis, regardless of how learned the
one positing), that hit upon and fail to
explain the great unknown quantity in the
first place.
Is there a god? If yes, from where did god
come? Nowhere? How? What caused it to be?
What caused the causing of god to be? Was
there a progenitor to our creator? Who
created them/it? So on and so forth into a
depressingly recursive pattern.
Science has no answers to all the
questions, but over time, unlike religious
beliefs they tend to find provable,
repeatable and observable steps along the
way.
Unfortunately god or a higher has yet and
likely never *will* be proven to anyone's
satisfaction, and to a much less satisfying
degree in the interim than science in it's
attempt to explain life the universe and
everything.
Although many would have you believe this
theory is able to be tested it is actually
impossible to test. We cannot go back in time
to gather actual data as to the conditions of
the environment at the time the nothingness
became somethingness. These conditions have
not and cannot be recreated. Every attempt
fails. But the theory is taught as truth.
However, Jesus is historically proven to be
true... even time itself is defined by Him.
He is the one person who is universally both
loved and honored, hated and mocked. How can
one man stir up so much controversy unless He
is who He says He is?
Evolution is observable and has mountains
of empirical evidence. Usually the setbacks
suffered by evolution are that science was
incorrect over the exact provenance or time
period of a particular organism. That
argument, however is beside the point.
What does Christianity offer in the form of
real, verifiable, uncontested evidence? Very
little. A Bible, written by many authors over
the span of hundreds of years, a gap of 30
years where jesus disappears from any
mention, etc. etc.
Furthermore, someone can be simultaneously
reviled and loved and celebrated and mocked
quite easily. Look at many figures in
history... it all depended what side you were
on. This one happened to be the figurehead of
a major religion. Broken telephone and
individual discretion and tastes slowly and
inexorably warp the original story or
picture. Almost certainly a Jesus existed in
Nazareth, and was a carpenter.. perhaps he
did help the lepers, was betrayed by a friend
and all such things. Does this disprove
evolution? No. Does it prove a god above? No.
Because a man might be held aloft as a son of
god and martyred for it does not make him so.
History is littered with leaders who were
acclaimed to be or claimed to be directly
selected/created/doing the will of god.
It's not proof, it's not fact, and it's not
truth with a capital T or not.
You find comfort in your religion, your
faith and that community. Enjoy it, but using
something you find attractive for emotional
reasons cannot and should not be used to
attack a body of empirical evidence and
intellectual application such as Evolution.
It's the reason the Flying Spaghetti Monster
was created. Prove he didn't give birth to
Jesus! Offensive? Perhaps, but that's not the
point either. As Monkeytime says:
Far too often religious folk insist that
their religious beliefs be accorded more
respect simply because they are religious.
This is, to me, unacceptable.
It's impossible. It's easier, not to
mention POSSIBLE, for me to show the earth is
far far far older than 6,000 years. Rational
argument and intelligent, critical thought is
the victim of faith, not the benefactor,
sadly.
I don't mock your beliefs, you are most
welcome to have any beliefs you want. I just
can't stand idly by and see you use it
misguidedly and chip away at rational thought
in other aspects of life.
Posted 9 months ago.
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I don't even know where to begin, to be
honest. But, dutchboy I feel I need to point
something out to you. You say you don't mock
my beliefs. That I am most welcome to have
any beliefs I want.
"Enjoy it, using something you find
attractive for emotional reasons cannot and
should not be used to attack a body of
empirical evidence and intellectual
application such as Evolution."
This sentence is a mockery of my beliefs as
you have wittled down my entire experience to
something I find attractive for emotional
reasons. You don't know me. You don't know
my reasons. I never gave them to you. This
is a judgment that you have made based on
your limited and stereotypical understanding
of what a Christian is.
"Far too often religious folk insist
that their religious beliefs be accorded more
respect simply because they are religious.
This is, to me, unacceptable."
I actually never asked for more respect. I
was looking for the same respect that is
given to everyone else. I was looking for
respect for Laurette Willis. But,
apparently, Christians are not entitled to
that same respect.
Posted 8 months ago.
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monkeytime, I was not proselytizing. I was
offering an opinion on a message board that
was created to ridicule another human being.
And in these individuals' cowardly
persecutions an entire religion was being
bashed. I wonder if any of these critics
would have the same distaste for other
religions. The same cruelty within their
words.
Posted 8 months ago.
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hi, lemonslices : I don't know that this thread was created
to ridicule the human being at issue
(although I certainly agree that certain
human beings deserve mockery). Rather, I read
it as mockery of her beliefs, claims and
work. All fair game, too, since she put them
out there.
I can speak only for myself as to the rest
of your comment. I don't know what part of my
"persecution" of her beliefs,
claims and work (or your beliefs and claims)
was "cowardly," but I am interested
in hearing why you say that. Truly. Not
trying to pick a fight. :-)
I did meant to "bash" the entire
religion, in this specific case Christianity.
At least fundamentalist Christianity. That
is, while I don't buy any of it as more than
instructive moral allegory, I'm mostly
concerned with the sort of Bible-literalist
Christianity that would find problems with
yoga, and worse.
I do have the same distaste for other
religions. I thought I alluded to that point
by mentioning Allah, but, no matter. I do.
I hope what appeared as cruelty, if
anything, in my words came off as applying to
the beliefs you asserted and the claims you
made. I consider those beliefs and claims
themselves to be cruel and destructive. But
I didn't mean to be "cruel" to you.
I don't know you at all. Sort of a "hate
the sin, love the sinner" thing, if you
will. :-)
Posted 8 months ago.
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lemonslices, I suggest you only interact with
the members of your faith, because you don't
make any sense to anyone who is not wrapped
up in your own mental universe and you will
just experience frustration dealing with
people who are not willing to see things
through your filters.
Posted 8 months ago.
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Lemonslices,
This sentence is a mockery of my beliefs as
you have wittled down my entire experience to
something I find attractive for emotional
reasons. You don't know me. You don't know my
reasons. I never gave them to you. This is a
judgment that you have made based on your
limited and stereotypical understanding of
what a Christian is.
I'm sorry if I sounded overly presumptuous
about your *motives* or dismissive. I perhaps
should have said something along the lines of
the fact that faith is not based on fact or
necessarily cold, hard impassionate logic, an emotional appeal is what faith
intrisically makes. Surely one can have
myriad personal and rationalized reasons for
their own faith. I don't presume to guess or
know even the smallest possible reasons. But
to use something that is by it's definition
personally and globally subjective and
unquantifiable in a scientific sense is
foolish and foolhardy and only erodes, does
not build or discover more. Philosophy is
fine, Physics or the evolution of life
shouldn't be where "faith" is
applied as a tool to further understanding.
Often, it makes us shut the books, not ask
more questions.
Where is the burden of proof? It's on those
of faith.
I actually never asked for more respect. I
was looking for the same respect that is
given to everyone else. I was looking for
respect for Laurette Willis. But, apparently,
Christians are not entitled to that same
respect.
I didn't say you asked for more respect
than the average human being, it's simply
that someone who puts their views in a public
forum or in this case a consumer product,
they are fair game to be discussed, disagreed
with, or even openly mocked or scorned.
Mockery may not be right (I don't believe
I've scorned Laurette or mocked her) but it
happens to people and products and
organizations every day.
Critical thought and discussion should be
encouraged, and if I want to sell people a
portion of my belief system for money or for
nothing, those same people are allowed to
question me, and within the bounds of
relative decency should be able to reject,
disprove, oppose or champion whatever it is I
have put forth.
I bear you no ill will. I can't comprehend
your faith in a god I can't reconcile as
existing, but I would think you can't imagine
a life without a relationship with a holy
spirit. So I'd say we at least have that in
common! No hard feelings intended.
As for "bashing" a religion, this
is a predominantly christian society
(US/Canada). Christianity is one of the
biggest world religions and if it can't stand
up to those who are apathetic, non-christian
or even openly hostile towards it, it isn't
going to last for all your support. That
statement also kind of goes back to a sort of
"hey, I believe in this, don't make
fun!". Frankly, people here *know*
christianity and live cheek to jowl with it,
they might have the same arguments for islam
or the hare krishna's at the airport, but
those religions don't have the same impact on
their daily lives in society, so it's less of
an issue... not to mention this thread is
about a specific product that IS christian,
nakedly, in it's marketing angle and it's
substance, so, other religions are entirely
beside the point.
I'm an atheist, I wouldn't tell a muslim or
a bhuddist any differently about my beliefs.
Posted 8 months ago.
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