- Yeah...Prop 8 passed, and goes to show how little respect some people have for equal rights. Even if you voted yes and it goes against your religion..well, lets have equality first. - Kelly Denker
- -And usually the standard pro-8 arguement is that "I want marriage to be between a man in a woman. That's what I believe in" but the problem is that even if that is what you believe, you need to believe in freedom too (your are in America, anyways...) Doesn't our pledge say something about freedom? - Kelly Denker
- "the world is going to hell in a handbasket" Grandpa was right. - Calvin E. Photography
- the face says everything - Yasmina R.
- The bigoted world, anyway.
"Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?" - phlewght - At least he's less of a bigot than McCain. - however.far.away
- beautiful! - Kat Lily
- Absolutely! I'll take him over McCain on every single issue...including this one, for sure.
- Just adding to the rest of the notes junking up the photo to ponder the question as to why people leave notes as comments, instead of comments as comments... - .tara.
- looser - graffitisaac
- couch potato - graffitisaac
- i am a neck - graffitisaac
- robot arm - graffitisaac
- other robot arm - graffitisaac
- nice robot - graffitisaac
- i am original - graffitisaac
- The world is not bigoted, but the USA certainly is. On 12/18 the UN got almost every country except the USA and a few other noteworthy stragglers to agree to decriminalize homosexuality worldwide. And the USA in all its arrogant puritanical assholism would not sign on. This is WAR ON GAYS, folks! - Mr Burlesk
- u know i hate mccain and palin more than i hate school
and trust me thats sayin something! - alienswillsomedayattack - Damn. I thought it said "BIGFOOT". - brotherxii
- nooo, the stupid jo biden said (he says a lot of thigns) that obama didn't support gay marriage, obama, even in his acceptance speech talked about equality of gays and straights. in his interview with ellen he said he hoped to someday have a gay president, so i dunno what you're talking about... - ((Sean Lee))
- Actually, in one of the debates, Obama flat out said that he did not support gay marriage. That's what I'm talking about. I have hope that he'll change his tune...I certainly believe his heart is in the right place on most issues.
- well, I'm glad Obama is coming around (again) since he DID say during the campaign (in one of the debates) that he did NOT support gay marriage, though civil unions were "OK" but that he would leave it up to the states to decide (which was pure chickenshit on his part, but he won, Thank GAWD!). - Mr Burlesk
- I don't think littlemeridian understands what bigot means. Barack has been a little bigotted with some of his opinions... - K_Rock1
- Really? McCain was straightforward with what he felt, as compared to (New Clinton) Obama. - K_Rock1
- GOOD... - AlexNoel
- you have a good heart and good meaning and i hope our president does make the right choice on equality for all men and women regardless of any personal choices. good job - ianimmortal
- You know what i havent had in a while ? Big league chew ! - charliebrown913
Message to Obama
For the A message for Obama group.
bigot noun ~ a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance
I'm a little late to the party posting something about all of the anti-gay-rights ballot issues that passed on Tuesday. As I have posted elsewhere, this was really the one thing that kept me from being completely overjoyed on Wednesday. I hadn't followed Prop 8 in California very closely...I knew it was out there, but I just thought there was no way -- in CALIFORNIA of all places -- that it would pass. WTF people?!?
The turth is, I don't know a lot of openly gay people. I know more here on Flickr than I do in real life. This isn't about my friends (though they make it more real) -- it's about simple human decency.
I guess I'm just ignorant. I don't understand any form of bigotry. With the progress this country has made with respect to non-white people and non-male people, how can anyone support the concept of rights that differ from one group of people to another? How can you sleep at night thinking "people like THIS should have these rights, but people like THAT should not."
Barack Obama has said that he does not support same-sex marriage. We've got eight years folks...surely we can find a way to straighten him out on this issue.
As a first step, I wrote him a letter here:
I have no idea how many of the submissions made on his new website will ever be seen by him...but I've got to believe that SOMEBODY is reading them.
Made interestingness #2.
Comments and faves
JulieFrick, sadandbeautiful (Sarah), lady_ishmael24, sarah. reed., and 145 other people added this photo to their favorites.
JulieFrick (43 months ago | reply)
There's a petition out there to encourage the IRS to look into the status of the LDS as tax-exempt, in light of their intense lobbying and fudraising efforts in support of Prop 8. It's a start.
miss.bailey (43 months ago | reply)
i completely agree with you. moving shot!
jtalbott (43 months ago | reply)
Well said. A similar amendment just passed in Florida. We finally went blue this election but certain people still aren't allowed to love who they want to love? It seems so backwards at times :( ....
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
Okay, here's the thing: Americans see marriage as a religious sacrament; therefore, under the religious idea, marriage should be between a man and a woman because "the Bible says so." However, marriage was a secular institution before the Catholic church declared it a religious sacrament.
Obama does not seem to be ready to commit to the phrase "gay marriage;" however, he does seem to support "civil unions" between homosexuals. This language, I feel is a step, BUT, this language infers a "separate but equal" institution, which I do, at heart, have a problem with.
Homosexuals -- and I am going to add bisexuals here as well because as a bisexual, I could have just as easily have fallen in love with a woman and would have wanted to marry her -- want true equality under the law like heterosexuals do, just like African Americans wanted equality under the law like whites had in the 60s much like women wanted to have with men during the 20s.
"Separate but equal" is not the same as "equal," but "separate, but equal" is a start. Equality has to start somewhere.
To get back to my first point, we -- all of us -- need to start pressuring our Government to stop using the Bible as a backbone of a law.
When someone is asked: "Why shouldn't gays be allowed to marry?" The answer is usually: "Because God says it's a sin." This is the root of the problem: Basing a State law on a Church decree. There is to be a press to separate the two and a press for educating people into realizing that marriage began as a secular institution, and not a religious one.
Also, Obama is against DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as a man and woman); he also is against amending the Constitution to declare marriage as "man and woman."
But I, too, can only hope that within the next four years, Obama will help yet another minority achieve equality.
{.jerry-b.} (43 months ago | reply)
Welcome aboard, Dave. It was just insane here in the Bay Area the last two weekends. YesOn8 groups at all intersections all over the place. (For those not familiar, a YES vote meant NO on same-sex marriage - another tactic used by many who put initiatives on the ballot to put confusion in their favor.) Sometimes there were NoOn8 groups across the street, but the Yes groups weree clearly more organized. They held their "bullets" until the final 2 or 3 weeks, and the No folks just weren't prepared. A lot of credit has been given to the Mormon church in driving the YesOn8 movement ... and if the Mormons are anything, they are organized and moble. This was the most well funded initiative in the history of mankind.
Emotions ran very high. My daughter walked up to talk to a YES group, and got revveed up to where she drove home to make her own NoOn8 sign. A few minutes later the police showed up at our front door following up on a report that she hit a YES person. They wrote down her license number, and lied to the Police about the hitting. Although, she did admit later that she pulled one of their signs up out of the grass right in front of them.
Like I said, emotions ran VERY HIGH. And it is not subsiding either. Lawsuits, counter movements, and god-knows-what are being spawned by the results.
Welcome aboard, Dave.
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
Oh, and another thing about Obama, he needs to be reminded that there was a point in this Nation's history where his parents were not allowed to be married, too, because they were an interracial couple.
He talks about this in a meeting he had with reps from the Human Rights Campaign. So, I think he understands the significance, but because of pressure from homophobic groups, he was quiet about the issue during his campaign.
{.jerry-b.} (43 months ago | reply)
Sarah, I just saw your post. Well said. I agree that "separate but equal" is better than nothing, but it has to be labeled as inferior every minute of every day. Time will correct this. Be patient, but not too patient.
d.rex (43 months ago | reply)
{.jerry-b.} (43 months ago | reply)
Sarah, some quick (and approximate) arithmetic tells me that they were married prior to 1967 when the supreme court finally settled the interracial marriage. So they were fortunate to have been married in the right state.
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
.tara. (43 months ago | reply)
Yeah, I was very upset to see it pass. I *do* know a lot of openly gay people (and you know at least 2 of them - my uncle and his partner of 15 years!), and as a California native, growing up in SF & the Bay Area and then as an adult in Marin County (which I think also has a very high concentration like SF they are just richer ;-) ) it just seems a no-brainer. They are humans just like you and me, and who they fall in love with shouldn't matter just like the color of their skin or whatever should not matter.
Now, also as a CA native I have to say that in a way I was also *not* surprised. I think the CA natives can agree with me - while CA is considered progressive and whatever, that is mainly SF & LA, but MOST of the state is farmland and conservative. Also, we seem to have more Republican Governors than Democrat, which I have never understood.
I hope it gets overturned as to me it is a human rights issue. Although, I hate to say it, I think I am slightly more appalled at the amendment in Alabama that passed, that no 2 unmarried people, gay OR straight, can adopt a child. So Dave, if we lived in Alabama but wanted to rescue a child from an orphanage or a bad situation and give them a safe loving home and a chance at growing up with a family, we would be SOL. WTF is THAT all about.
d.rex (43 months ago | reply)
¤ njm ¤ [deleted] (43 months ago | reply)
Separate but equal...yeah, it's a step in the right direction, in the sense that Plessy v. Ferguson was a step in the right direction. Plessy stayed in effect for, what? 50+ years until the Supreme Court realized that "separate" very rarely went along with "equal" and mandated integration began (Brown v. Board of Education). Of course, back then, it required National Guard troops and caused rioting. If we get widespread support for gay civil unions, it won't be long before the law realizes that civil unions aren't being taken as seriously as marriages, and that gay couples in unions aren't being granted the same rights as married straight couples. So. It's a step, but requires a LOT more work.
I don't get why people can't just look at Massachusetts and realize that nothing bad has happened to straight couples there. Straight people still get married, often in churches, in Massachusetts all the time. They live productive lives together, and the fact that their gay neighbors also get married doesn't impact them in the slightest. Life still goes on, the earth moves around the sun, gay people get married, straight people STILL get married...
Gamma Infinity (43 months ago | reply)
1) The California initiative process was great idea, but it set the bar way too low for this media environment. It worked when newspapers were the hottest thing around and it took 12 hours for Sacramento to find out what was happening in San Diego, but that was then and this now. Now the initiative is the major political tool for any interest or even individual with enough money to pay signature gatherers and get on the ballot, then blitz the state with a scary ad campaign and confuse people into voting for the thing.
2) California is an agricultural state with an oil patch, and a few cities along the coast. Often its affinity is more with the South than people think. In the Civil War, the Union had to occupy SoCal to keep it from seceding. There are neighborhoods around oil refineries where you'd swear you were in Texas. It's a blue coastal strip with a few inland blue islands, in a red sea.
3) Obviously you had some interest groups that are usually under-represented turning out in larger numbers to vote for Obama. Without lapsing into the kind of unconscious racism that's going around right now concerning this issue, let's just say that anecdotal evidence supports the idea that some communities with strong ethnic ties to older traditions can run their homophobia closer to the surface than you'd first think an oppressed group would treat another one.
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
d.rex (43 months ago | reply)
Exit Poll Numbers That Really Jump Out
African Americans - 70% Yes
65 and Older - 61% Yes
Republicans - 82% Yes
atomictonic (43 months ago | reply)
I married my husband not only because we were madly in love, but because I'm American and he's Swedish and we wanted to live in America. So we got married so he (we) could.
We have zero religion in this house, not an ounce of it.
Is it ridiculous that we're married? Yes. Absolutely. We just happened to get lucky in that we're straight and marriage was an option for us.
I'd much prefer us to have a civil union that afforded us all the same rights as a marriage. I'd also much prefer that everyone get to make their own choices and have a marriage or a civil union, either with the exact same rights.
I voted for Obama and I think he's great but his stance on this was a total sticking point for me. He's not perfect and he's not going to fix everything but he's a start.
(I also secretly hope that he actually is for gay marriage but feels the country isn't ready to hear it yet AND that he's not really religious at all but also knows the country is REALLY not ready for that so he pretends. What. A girl can dream.)
d.rex (43 months ago | reply)
fokiesd (43 months ago | reply)
You know once again the Republicans threw out 10 of these anti-gay ballot measures nation-wide. The closest by far was Prop 8. I think there's a chance that it will be repealed - still unconstitutional. Still very frustrating. If it comes up again in the next few years I think it will be reversed.
Pete Wilson, and the anti-immigrant crowd showed that CA is very susceptible to knee-jerk fear based voting, but he No campaign made mistakes too. As lame as it is to think that people need to be convinced to allow other citizens to keep their rights, I think the No's could have won if they responded better to the Yes campaign charge that gay marriage would be taught in schools. I don't know if that's true per se, I'm a teacher and I've never heard of it, but that doesn't mean that some grade or curriculum teaches it, but I thought we learned from the Clintons etc that you have to respond to charges and respond immediately.
They never said, "Maybe this will be taught, but so what? You don't want your kids to know about gays? You can teach your kids to hate if you want, but how is this hurting your kids?" Or maybe "80% of teachers says it's not taught and the rest say it's a very minor part of the curriculum. You want to strip people of their rights so your kids don't know about them?" How about "The Mormon Church is funding the Yes campaign." That right there would do it I think. Just a bad response.
I also thought the ground campaign was weaker.
What I hate seeing now is a blame game going against blacks. The last thing we need is a rift between blacks and gays. Yes, we know blacks are disproportionately homophobic - this is not new, but we do need to work together ultimately.
LOLLO SNAPPER (43 months ago | reply)
great message! i'm agree with you...
like_shipwrecks (43 months ago | reply)
I too was shocked that Prop 8 passed.
And I just want to say thankyou for your support <3
KYouell (43 months ago | reply)
Great message, beautiful photo.
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
How long would the human race last if all the world went gay?
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
d.rex (43 months ago | reply)
Yep...good thing the whole world isn't gay.
Does your bizarre question actually have something to do with this topic?
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
Hey, I just asked a simple question.
Don't start with the bigotry and hate on me.
"and then those babies could be shared, maybe" ????
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
Let me answer your question now that I know you are being serious non-sarcastically:
Not all people are going to suddenly turn gay just because gay marriage is allowed. I was born a bisexual. My brother was born straight. My mother was born straight. My husband was born bisexual. Two of my friends were born lesbians, once of which is married (to a woman) and they have a baby. Another one of my best friends was born gay -- he doesn't want kids, but he is our children's Uncle. My point is that there is a nice healthy ratio there of children being born and being healthily raised. My bi-husband and I have two children, and if they were born gay or straight or lesbian or transgendered, we will love them just the same. So, no, I don't think that ratio will change. I do not think the population will disappear anytime soon due to homosexuality.
By the way, did you know that many animal species form homosexual relationships and those animals are not extinct?
Mi-ly (43 months ago | reply)
fyi
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
Tell it to Dr Phil. (sarcasm, my simple mind could not resist)
Simply put, if all people turned 100% gay, no interferance from science, the human race would die out.
I see that as a big minus for us humans.
I am willing to stand up and say "I am pro-human race"
HUMAN RACE HUMAN RACE HUMAN RACE HUMAN RACE
(Now I'll have to have hoodies made)
sarah. reed. (43 months ago | reply)
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
OK mrs. reed,
you have a good day and a wonderful life.
Maybe I'll send you a hoodie.
d.rex (43 months ago | reply)
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
mrs. reed,
Now your adding things to your comments that were not there before.
And I doubt very seriously that all people will turn gay, I only asked the question.
No hoodie for you.
Good day mrs. reed.
nariposa (43 months ago | reply)
There's is no way Obama believes in these hateful legislative initiatives against gays. No effing way. Obama spoke out against gay intolerance in Beaumont, TX of all places on the campaign stump - to an audience of Baptists! He has explicitly stated that he does not support Prop 8. The "civil union" language was purely for political expediency. You are going to see a change coming my friend, but I fear the tone across the country is not there yet to the point where Obama can spend all his political capital on this issue. It's disgusting, but that's the state of affairs right now.
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
All of you have a good day and a wonderful life.
See you out there someday.
d.rex (43 months ago | reply)
Well this is fun:
SkyShaper (43 months ago | reply)
Page One Explore!
I think your message will be well heard
":O)
phlewght (43 months ago | reply)
Dude!! Page One! How cool! Now Barack will read your letter...or not...maybe....
nariposa (43 months ago | reply)
@JulieFrick here's the petition you mentioned: lds501c3.wordpress.com/
SaylaMarz (43 months ago | reply)
I hope he grows as the country grows. I get the sense that the's open to new ideas on this one. I have hope for him....it's the rest of the country i'm worried aobut.
Meredith_Farmer (43 months ago | reply)
Fantastic photo Dave. I agree with you 100% (no surprise there). I know I am only feeding the fire here, but...
But Dave - fabulous message. Thank you for providing the forum for this discussion. :-)
{.jerry-b.} (43 months ago | reply)
I love the fear some folks have about everybody turning gay. Yea, it's true. Men loooooooove men, but most are afraid to admit it, so they pretend to be straight. Same for women and lesbianism.
When the finger is out of the dike (uhm ... if there's a pun there, I didn't intend it), then everybody will finally cave in and go gay.
And I mean EVERYBODY..!!!! So that must include you, Mr. Calvin E. Photography.
NOT...!!!!!!
So funny ... and sad at the same time.
jb
{.jerry-b.} (43 months ago | reply)
As far as Obama and same-sex marriage, yea he's staying back from the firing line. To once again compare to Abe Lincoln, Mr Lincoln was not an abolishionist when he came to office. He was just against allowing slavery to spread as the country grew. So he was leaning in the right direction, but not totally head over heels for cleaning house. Some would even say that he freed the slaves in order to bring more troops to the front lines or to get more votes the next year. There may be some truth to all that, but he basically went as fast as he felt would work, and he allowed the other side (CSA) enough "rope" to hang themselves -- to put the questin on the table such that any reasonable person would have to say, "Hell No..!!!
Patience was his strongest virtue. A good example to follow for a leader. Especially when there are advocates working on the cutting edges setting the stage for the proper time.
Be patient. Be vigilant. Be diligent.
jb
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
Geez people I only asked a question.
Never once did I say I was against gay marriage.
Never once did I say I hated gays.
Never once did I mention my personal preferance.
Interesting who the haters seem to be here.
Ignorant bigotry going on right here just because I asked a question.
Damoiselle de pique (43 months ago | reply)
congrats on making explorer!!!!!
i was looking at it and saw a familiar face and it was you!
yay!
:)
.tara. (43 months ago | reply)
You said:
And no one at first knew if you were serious or not (I think most of us assumed you were not serious), but regardless don't even try to tell me you did not think/hope/expect to get SOME sort of reaction over that. So, you got your reaction.
Could you leave it at that or try to thoughtfully respond to the people asking you questions or try to defend your question? Oh, no...Now you are saying things like:
Um...do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Or are you just trying to get more attention? I see no "haters" just because they respond to you. Let me remind you of something: you have the right to free speech, and so do all of us. Therefore, don't sit here and ask a question, no matter serious or a joke, and then call people "haters" because they do not agree with your question/statement or question you as to why you would think that or if you are serious.
You don't get to say whatever you want then call people names because they do not agree with you. Personally, I think you are doing this for attention but that is my opinion and I am not accusing you of anything; big difference. However, I really DO feel the need to point out how ridiculous you sound, especially if you truly are trying to start a thoughtful or at least respectful debate on that question - because with the way you are acting by calling other people names and making assumptions about them, I don't see how you can expect people to take you seriously.
Calvin E. Photography (43 months ago | reply)
.tara.
Getting so bent out of shape over a simple question is ridiculous.
My "hater" comment was in response to jerry.b and meridith farmer who seem to be a little upset.
As I said to the others, you have a good day and a wonderful life.
Oh yes, no hoodie for you.
.tara. (43 months ago | reply)
I should have known better than to even try to have a mature conversation with you with all of your assumptions and name-calling!
Little Thoughts (43 months ago | reply)
im glad we dont have to have this discussion where i live anymore. I hope america takes the dutch example some day and realize its about human decency.