In any Form

Due to recent discussions. It is my opinion that in any form, women (as well as men) are slave...whether it be to one Master or many. Tal

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Sue Stonebender says:

Wow. Powerful metaphor and very provocative!
Posted 25 months ago. ( permalink )

Ty Sue :) I don't always think people really get that there are many different slaves and slavers....as well as, many different freedoms. It's just in our choices.

Are we more bound and gagged by our system or by a chosen Master....are we more freed by being a kajira or no?

Enuff said! LoL..."i must the soapbox put away" (a little known quote by Yoda)
Posted 25 months ago. ( permalink )

~VENK~ says:

oh pull that soapbox out again...this is fantastic...)
Posted 25 months ago. ( permalink )

Sue Stonebender says:

Actually, don't hurry on putting it away. You wield it very capably. I have to admit that this is one of those issues that has plagued me from the moment I joined SL. I never quite understood why any woman would make giving up her personal freedoms (and part of her personality?) a conscious fantasy choice in RP. This is not a judgemental statement so much as an honest curiousity and need to understand.

Part of my own bias comes from my first life where I've spent a number of years working to help free little girls from the child sex trade in various countries, including in my own. Anything that robs a woman of her right to choose and her voice essentially drives me around the bend, and that has certainly been coloured by the drama of my first life experiences with this.

It seems something entirely different to people in the context of SL, and I have to admit you are the second woman I admire who's made me do a double take on this issue in the past few months. The first is a fellow Canadian -- very bright, articulate, thoughtful business woman in first life. I've never been brave enough to simply ask her about her choices in SL at the risk of offending her, though some how I suspect she wouldn't be surprised if I did open that door.

This picture of your's was such a stark kick in the arse on the hypocrisy of our choices. On one hand there is the literal choice to rp as a slave; on the other something less obvious but in some ways more insidious because we often feel (unlike the first example) that we have no choice.

So, bravo for inviting a discourse on this! Ignore Yoda, wise old soul that he may be. I hope you -won't- put that soap box away, because you've actually hit on something that is an intrinsic part of the SL culture and I suspect is misunderstood by a lot more people than myself.

Thanks for the chance to stop and reflect, and for providing a safe forum to explore this in where some of us are simply too damned afraid to ask. Looking forward to what transpires here ...

(inspired enough that I had to blog it)
Posted 25 months ago. ( permalink )

Daequix says:

I think the key to understanding this is very elusive...and often barred from us by our own life experiences and biases, just as you highlight Sue, ....but that's alright to be honest. The reality is that at least from a Gorean standpoint, (IMHO) a slave isn't really robbed of her personality in the slightest....and often times is quite powerful in many subtle ways. There are nuances and almost deceptive shadings and degrees that those that are not fully into the lifestyle can never appreciate or truly understand.

The picture was meant to be a solid kick in the arse (not your arse in particular!), mainly because of my discovering myself featured in an article listing my Flickr work as being objectifying and sexually degrading to women.....and it made me think alot about women's roles in society, and the perceptions of people in so many different layers of our world....from the youthful and their biases/perceptions to the elders. I found that it invited my own thoughts to highlight what I do see as a societal hypocrisy about women and their roles.

Why is it that a powerful business woman who IS a slave to her work is more highly perceived than a devoted slave to his/her Master? Each takes initiative, supreme attention to detail, committment, and often times subjugating one's owns desires to those of another, be it a corporation or another individual. Yet the business woman is lauded while the slave is sneered at, and thought to be weak. Weak and slave should never be used in the same sentence honestly.....there are no weak slaves...

Some might say "Well that business woman has the right to walk away!" In reality, let's be real here folks-- so does that slave. Most especially within a SL culture. One can change an avatar appearance, as well as a name with the click of a "Enrollment" button much more easily than that business woman can change jobs....and don't get me started on employee rights.....

In regards to your friend from Canada: I think that she would be more than open to your questions, and I would encourage you to discuss it with her, and in fact I invite you to do so with her, and if that isn't comfortable I'd be more than happy to talk about it any time you wish....

I'm not a practicing Gorean any longer, yet,I have a feel and comfort with the culture that will never leave me. Since its dinner time...I'll let Yoda hold the soapbox for a few more :)
Posted 25 months ago. ( permalink )

theSarge00 says:

Reposted here from Sue's blog, so the response is influenced by a rather simplistic (in perspective), if verbose, response preceding mine over there:

While I wouldn't dream of being quite so pompous (not you) as to ascribe a simple blanket explanation for why such a wide group of people would engage in something as obviously uncomplicated as sex (sarcasm mode: off) I can offer a few insights, having spent some years in the "lifestyle" real life.

D/s (Dominance and submission, the general rubric under which most powerplay activities fall) practiced as a modern lifestyle can be seen as the structure and codification for the essential power imbalance in most any relationship, no matter how staunchly held to be fully equal - one partner always holds more power in one or more areas , whereas another might hold more in others... D/s as a lifestyle is _supposed_ to form an agreement where one partner consciously surrenders power and the other consciously assumes responsibility for that power.

Some common reasons one might submit:
the classic: a business person who makes decisions and holds power through the day, might find it relaxing to submit to someone else during the evening, letting their partner take on the aggressive role in bed, dictating how long or short or when the event takes place, all the way up to edgy roleplaying and bondage. Think of how many times you've seen D/s in movies and it's a politico or businessman caught in the act of being someone's puppy....

Keeping up appearances: one might have conflicting desires, and rather than become the town slut 24/7, reserve that role for private time with someone who will not condemn you for it, and give you the psychological "out" of being "forced".

Modern social roles: there is a great pressure in the wake of the sexual and feminist revolution for women (and men) to be strong and independent - small wonder that some might enjoy the break from it (like the businessperson case).

SL provides a good place for this: annonymity, freedom to explore ANYTHING and no messy marks or danger of ending up in a dozen ziplocks in someone's freezer.

As to the popularity of Gor is SL, I'll hazard a guess, as it's always seemed like D&D meets S&M to me: Norman's Gor has a fairly extensive structure threaded throughout the books, with a well defined set of behaviors and rituals. This makes things a lot easier for a submissive in learning how they're expected to behave, as well as the luxury of tantalizing silks - a far cry from the more debasing wear that the leather community straps their subbies up in. In Gor, a slave girl is a prize, valued for her beauty and desireability - shallow conceits to be sure, but on an Id level, something I feel safe in thinking most people want on some level. Gor in fact is about the only really socially structured area of the D/s community that I can think of, and the only one that could be called a "cult" - though since fans of Gor don't even agree on everything (Norman himself varied in his portrayals of the characters over time) and as there's no central authority, I'd hesitate to call it a cult per se.

Lest I be accused of being one-sided, there are of course hazards aside from the physical - many people go into domination because they feel powerless in their lives to one degree or another - the same place most psychologists point to for rape motivation, so an iffy place to put your trust casually. Also, the percieved phenomenon of "subspace" - an almost altered perception that some submissives can enter that can render measured consent meaningless. However, as long as both parties are coming from a position of even semi-solid self awareness and care for their partner, D/s can be, if practiced as the motto goes "Safe, Sane and Consensual", a profoundly deep, therapeutic and secure way of life or even simply candy sprinkles for the otherwise vanilla.

Speaking as Dae's beau for the last 5 or so years in real life.
Posted 25 months ago. ( permalink )

ysildrine says:

Please, spare us your banalities.
Posted 24 months ago. ( permalink )

Daequix says:

you can easily go elsewhere ysildrine, in fact I highly suggest this. Do I know you in some way? or have you just decided to obsess about me and plant your venom around freely?
Posted 24 months ago. ( permalink )

theSarge00 says:

Does seem like you've picked up a stalker - I suppose you should feel honored - someone has gone to the trouble to create a flickr account just to abuse you.
Posted 24 months ago. ( permalink )

Daequix says:

a stalker? who whoulda thunk it! I mean I'm banal, hackneyed and even boooring! OMG. Wounded by the light and no sunshine after the rain. Doomed I tell ya!
Posted 24 months ago. ( permalink )

Daequix says:

I so agree with that Track Hax.....I found it funny in many ways that who ever this was had to hide behind an anonymous identity.... but that's okay :) Ty for your support!
Posted 24 months ago. ( permalink )

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Taken on July 8, 2007

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Sue Stonebender says:

Daequix says:

~VENK~ says:

Sue Stonebender says:

Daequix says:

theSarge00 says:

ysildrine says:

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