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Chmurka & Bułeczka (+ MESSAGE TO THE WORLD)

who finish first ???
1-2-3....
START !!!!
.
mwahahhaaha Get in ma belleh!!!
can you believe all this commotion over me taking a nice stroll outside?
there are more important things like a shortage of our tofu reserves!!!!
*kiss-kiss-kiss* and more kissess for both of you..... lil babies...
we love pictures, and we love so much our mom Klara!!!!!
Tiny eye...
BIG eye!
:}
Both eyes are tiny, both eyes are bigger on the other. Genetics maybe?
"We love our Mommy and she takes great care of all of us! A breath of fresh air every now and then is nice too! ♥" Says Klara's hammies
Chmurka & Bułeczka (+ MESSAGE TO THE WORLD) by pyza*.
Today Jade C criticized me as a hamster owner. It saddens me so very much...

And makes me angry, too, since most of the accusations are simply: not true, not fair or very, very, and pointlessly forced.

She did a great research, found my photos which she thinks show that I am not treating my hamsters right, and produced a detailed critique.
GO HERE and scroll down:
www.flickr.com/photos/chmurka/2514477588

(I am sorry Jade I am making this public, but you were the first one to make it all public, instead of sending me an email, wich would be a much nicer way to sort it out. I do appreciate your comments, or rather your intentions, yet I think that it's all, so to say, too personal and that you're taking it much too far..)

She says that I:
- feed my hamsters with bad food: chocolate, human junk food, crisps, etc.
- that I put my hamsters' life to danger by taking them outdoodrs (just for a "few pretty photos")
- that I maltreat my hamsters, lil Pompon to be precise.

In short, I am a retarded 6 year who treats hamsters like toys, and who is doing everything to shorten my hamsters' lives...

I've never said I am a good hamster owner.
That's the first thing I say when someone asks me for advice. Anyone who asked me for advice will confirm that.
I am not a ROLE MODEL.
NOT AT ALL.
I am not a hamster expert. I can only tell you how to take a good photo and how to tame your hamster (and even here, my opinions differ from what most people say)
So, PLEASE don't treat me as a role model or an expert.
Just DON'T.
If you need info, search the internet for good sites.
Or contact flickr specialists like Locomom, SIberianemerald, Vikkinsnowangel, Seattle Roll etc.
And if you want to have a hamster owner role model, there is Springhawk.

I think my hamsters are happy with me.
I think my hamsters like me.
My photoshoots don't hurt them.
None of my hamsters has ever bitten me out of anger or fear.
I do play with them a lot. I do lots of different things with them and to them, some of them odd and not really normal, but none of those things hurt them.
I do let them run freely around my house, under control.
I do take them outside for walks.
I want to make their lives interesting and happy and fun.

I take Chmurka outside often so that she can have the time of her life - not to take a "few pretty photos". That part really offended me.

I do know a hamster can spend all of its life sitting in a cage / tank, running in the wheel, biting cage bars. Never exposed to any danger. Neither happy nor unhappy. And you can sit there, glad your hamster will never have contact with bacteria or dirt so it will have a long life. Yeah...

I don't think hamsters are beings from Mars and that a bacteria in the grass or on the kitchen floor will kill your hamster. I am not killing my hamsters.

(What's the real problem with hamsters? More and more chemicals in food which causes cancer in hamsters.Rotten food which can cause batcterial infection. Etc.)

The most surprising, and saddest thing is, this all comes from Jade C, who's like one of my first flickr contacts.. I enjoy her photos very much, and I thought it's the other way round too. My photos of my hams with cookies or outdoors have been around FOR AGES...
That's why it's so trange. All of a sudden, she writes me this kind of stuff, and gives me advice in such a patronising way, in public.
I think she KNOWS what I went through ecently... all of my hamsters being sick; Chmurka's tumor and surgery; Szarotka's illness and then death... Countless visits to the vet. Brutally being forced to be aware of all the things a hamster owner should be aware of. I guess you can tell that, right?

So, Jade digging out a very old photo of my dearest Szarotka holding a piece of chocolate... and telling me: that's bad, is just.... pffff, just very nasty.
And unexpected.
And unfair.
And unnecessary.

Sorry for this.
Enjoy the photos. 
This photo has notes. Move your mouse over the photo to see them.

Comments

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(147 comments)
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Monique L. (Happy Holidays)  Pro User  says:

I have to read it and I will be back sweet angel ...
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Monique L. (Happy Holidays)  Pro User  says:

I'm with you at 100% and your letter is very honest and btw you do not have to justify yourself ...

Love you
Monique
xx
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

*nono [deleted] says:

I never did understand why people cant private flickr mail if they were really concerned and worried instead of trying to generate publiclity for their own flickr. Jade C's concern are not unfounded but the motive I highly question. She could always take a minute out to let u know PRIVATELY nicely how to "care for hamsters"
but this wont generate publicity for her flickr.

After reading through everything, what is foremost in my mind is, Is your flickr more popular or Jade C?'s. I think knowing that answer lies the true motive of writing that publicly littered all over your flickr. I rest my case[-)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

Wow. how disappointing, really saddens me to hear about your ordeal .
so szarotka holds chocolate, big deal, hamsters are very resilient creatures, their cousins the mice and rats often dont have the best diet, I mean the street ones of course, And they live pretty long.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Weich Taube  Pro User  says:

You know than I support you a 100 % like Monique ...
You are not a bad owner...
don`t feel bad dear....
kisses and hugs !

=^-^= kisses TAUBE
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Misja Klimov  Pro User  says:

Oh dear, I hate people judging each others this way, publicly and unexpectedly. I don't think that you have to be lectured about how you have to care about your hamsters. Everyone can see they are not being harmed by having fun!!!! They look happy and healthy, and if bad health comes to the door is for other reasons than how you take care of them or how many pics you take of them!

I don't really think that you must justify yourself but I understand the feeling...that was totally wrong.

Just think that everyone that looks at your hammie's pics wouldn't care about this. And of course hamster or other pet owners can't help but be on your "side" (if there's a side to be!) because we all take care of our babies, try to make them happy and of course take pics of them without harming! (that sounds so antique!!!! "don't take pics of people!!! You would take their souls!!!! xD)

Keep on darling, your babies are happy and we know.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Frikkadella  Pro User  says:

grrrr... i have to say that that reading that just made my angry.. and the other commet too!
I believe that its very very clear to everyone that u love your girls very much and would never do anything that would deliberatly hurt or scare them...

sure we all make mistakes..like that lily thing..but thats just what those are.. Mistakes..we are not trying to be mean...and we all do them!!

and for most ppl our hammies are like our little babys..so saying that we are doing stuffs to them just to get few good shots....
well shame on her!

and bye the way... very lovely coming from a person that's supposed to know u well! pifft No need at all for Enemies when u have "friends" like that....
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

OH for crying out loud! it s just a picture! and no matter for how many generations a hamster might be bread to be domesticated you cant ever take away their primal instincts. This thing just got way out of hand. what ever qualms you have with each other should have been done in private (e-mail?) this hamster community is here to mostly celebrate the joy that these wonderful creatures give to us, and help each other like family. As far as this bitter squabbling, I truly think it should have been done in private.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Supermunchie  Pro User  says:

I agree, it should of been done in private.
Klara, you are a fantastic hamster mum and don't let anyone let you feel bad! We all love you and your hamsters!
But please understand that Jade was only concerned, but it was wrong that she jumped to things so quicly, and as you said, she should of sent you and email.
*hugs* Klara :)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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pocket farmer  Pro User  says:

Well, I think you are one of the coolest hamster moms in the world. :)
For what it's worth, I have fed my Chinese Dwarf hamster all kinds of terrible things, including chocolate. Guess what? She's still thriving, at nearly three years old.

Keep loving your hammies in your special way, pyza. You're an inspiration to me. :)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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karine&tchukinho  Pro User  says:

Klara, I´m with you 1000000% !!!!!!!!

you are a wonderful mom!!!! We love you and your hammies!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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karine&tchukinho  Pro User  says:

we, in flickr, love you!!!!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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orphansparrow says:

i am totally behind you here k.

and i agree with everything you said, that you summed up in this paragraph:

"I do know a hamster can spend all of its life sitting in a cage / tank, running in the wheel, biting cage bars. Never exposed to any danger. Neither happy nor unhappy. And you can sit there, glad your hamster will never have contact with bacteria or dirt so it will have a long life. Yeah..."

I personally think any animal's mental health is just as, or more important than it's physical health. the fact that you always go out of your way to provide your hammies with a full life, shows that you care.

and i personally have heard you say MANY times that you are not a hamster specialist. when i got my first hammy and wrote you for advice, the first thing you told me is that you are no specialist.

i think the thing that matters most here, is that your hamsters are happy and having a full wonderful life with you. many hamster owners could not say that of their sedentary, germ-free hamsters.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Fifteenth Risk Taken  Pro User  says:

Oh, K! Im soooo sorry! Sorry doesnt begin to cover it!! Thats horrible and completely irrational. You should NOT apologize to her, and in no way owe her an apology. She was nasty nasty NASTY to you to say that, and I feel terrible that she could go as far to say as you ENDANGER you hamsters. I know how well you love your hamsters, and if all those pictures of them asleep in your hand didnt prove how safe and protected they feel with you, I dont know what could! After all the birthday cakes and special times you spend with them, then I would think that ANYONE could tell they love you as much as you love them. A million tons worth. Please, PLEASE dont feel bad and understand that shes no hamster expert either! She has no room to run her mouth and say that to you, she has no evidence except some pictures she wrongly used her opinion on. Yeah, an opinion is your own, but for her to say that that was mean and cruel etc etc, she has a poooor sense of judgement. You are the worlds BES hammie mom and you NEVER need to let words like that gert to you, no matter how terrible and cruel and heart wrenching it is. Im so sorry you had to lose a friend and contact like this, and Im so sorry she had to bring painful things back to your mind. If your a bad mom, that there must be no one who knows how to properly take care of a hamster, especially not Jade. She obviously has no idea what she is talking about, much less what was going on in those pictures. I even asked you about the cookies yourself, you said they were special sugar free cookies if I recall correctly. I love you, and you are a amazing friend. Please stay happy and do not respnd to such trivial matters with such a person who would do this to you. Keep your head up, Klara!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Jorma McCracken  Pro User  says:

I can't believe this! You take such good care of your hamsters.... I just don't understand why people think they have to criticize others. I also don't understand why people get so freaked out because you take Chmurka outside to let her enjoy herself!! You watch her very carefully when she's outside. How dare anyone say you maltreat your hamsters!!!! You're such a good friend to me and I love you very much like a sister, so it just sickens me to hear people talking about you like that! ;(
And just to let Jade C know, dwarf hamsters eyes normally look like that when you pick them up. I know because my friend has had many dwarf hamsters, witch I myself have picked up and handled. They did the same thing Pompon does. So don't worry Klara, you are definately NOT misstreating Pompon! She is perfectly fine! If Jade C was an "expert" on hamsters, she would know that. (I'm sorry if I sound hostile, what she did just makes me mad... she totaly blew this way out of proportion....)
lots of hugs from me and Billie Jean! =]
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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lais berriel says:

I like your hamsters, I don't think they are mistreated in any way and they look very happy.
It is in they're nature to run outdoors
And I like your pictures.

*--*
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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ChinchillaVilla  Pro User  says:

Habsburg06 says in my next life I will return as a chinchilla.
If that's the case, then I only hope I get to have a mom as wonderful as you and I will be the happiest, healthiest and most loved chinchilla in the world :-)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Summers Love says:

heya pyza, i didnt read what everyone wrote here, but i DID read the mean nasty letter jade decided to post about you. your hamsters seem like they are perhaps the best taken care of hamsters in the world, you can see it in their eyes, skin, fur... happiness. i really dont think you should be concerned with what 1 person thinks of you. you are an amazing owner. i only wish my hamster was as happy as yours...
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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3_little_birds  Pro User  says:

me too!! me too!!


i think some pet owners fail to understand that there are OTHER equally good pet owners out there. They aren't the only ones.

cookies won't kill your hamsters.

used to give hamsterschocolate.......i was 7,leave me alone!! :P
....needless to say they didn't die from that and apparently chocolate is poisonous to little animals even dogs. SO...if they don't die from that, i HIGHLY doubt they'll die from going outside or from eating a potato chip or a cookie. MMMMMmm cookies :D
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

kawaii paradise [deleted] says:

I added you as my first contact and I am never going to betray you because you are a true, good caring hammy owner! I understand you! I want my hamsters to have a good life, not what hamsters normally have! Sit in the cage, waiting for it's death. I am the one who treats hamsters like a human-being! I love the way you care for them and everything that is written is all wrong! You are the opposite things she wrote! You treat them your best, I know for sure because you cried for a long time when your angel passed away and always mention your angel. Your angel always smiled when you gave her a cookie! Please feel better! We're all on your side! I had a problem like that. I'll email you about my problem! :)
Coco sends you many kisses! >o<
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Marni~  Pro User  says:

I know you love your hamsters , Klara! You take excellent care of them. All the best from us.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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bluepetmusiclover says:

I will support you ALL the way, Klara! Even though she's my contact too, you're the first contact I ever had and you really made me feel at home in flickr with all your extremely adorable photos. All that she is typing is pure NONSENSE. You're the best hammie mom I've ever met! You even gave your angel a proper burial (correct spelling?). I am behind you all the way!

p.s. sorry for asking what crisp was that crisp that Chmurka was eating :( it was your answer to ME that Jade C included in her "highly detailed" comment...really sorry
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Seattle Roll (Away)  Pro User  says:

I know so many people are on pyza's side so maybe I'll get some attacks writting this but I just can't help it.
Because jade_c is my friend so I'm going to protect her.
It should have been done in private, I agree with that.
But I really think you need not have made a new thread for this matter.
That made me sad / dissapointed...

Jade and I have the same kind of opinion about hamster ownership.
As long as we upload hamster photos in public, we think we should be a good hamster owner role model.
Because we think some people who don't know about hamster well or new owners might copy us.
We want to avoid that risk.

I know there are so many people = so many opinion.
The point of this is not to call Pyza a bad owner.
It really shows that she loves her hamsters very much.
But you have put them at risk at times, perhaps unknowingly.
I understand, because once I was a new hamster owner too and had made mistakes.
Hamsters ARE very fragile animals.
They are prey animals so they stress out and scare very easily.
And hamsters, no matter how well you think you know them often do things that you don't expect.
We are responsible for there lives and it would be terrible if something happened to them when it could be easily avoided.
I don't know the area you live in Pyza, but taking them outside is a risk.
Maybe small, but still a risk.
The same with feeding them unhealthy foods.
Hamster food life is very important to their lifespan.
Even a little bit of unhealthy food can shorten their lives.
This not coming from me, this is information that comes from my vet, who is a very well known exotic vet in our area.
The main thing though is, when you take pictures of these things, people who don't understand the risks like you do copy you.
And this could lead to hamsters dying or getting sick.
I think I know you well enough to know you don't want hamsters being put at risk.
There is so much wrong information and bad food products out there we just would like you to join us in being a good role model to help spread correct hamster care information.

As much as you say you are not a role model pyza, you ARE.
The number of people who have come to defend you proves that.
You have a lot of influence so please accept our advice.
This not an attack on pyza, we just hoped you could learn from our past exprience.
I am sorry, but this is what I think.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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kayako & katsushi  Pro User  says:

Don't care about such a post so much.
We can know you love your hamsters and they love you.
I'm with you.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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hesedetang *  Pro User  says:

Dear K,

Personally I know you will never try to hurt your hamsters, and I believe you. I am also glad that your photos have made more people aware that hamsters are so adorable and intelligent :) I think I told you this before, when I featured Chmurka a long time ago on my blog :) (If you remember :) It's been a long time.)

However, I do agree with Jade and SR on certain counts. There is a lot of toxic food, food for humans, and even in a home garden that can poison a hamster. They may seem harmless in small doses, but larger doses can indeed kill.

It is very difficult to gauge a hamster's happiness by the food he or she eats - perhaps we should try to sort this out for easier discussion. Basically a domesticated hamster will accept almost everything that is fed to it. This is because it does not have the natural instincts regarding poisonous plants and other 'survival' knowledge that wild animals would have from growing up in the wild. This experience can never be obtained from living indoors with an owner, even should the owner take the animal for walks outdoors. 'Walking' outdoors can never compare with 'living' outdoors because of the length of time and other factors involved.

Of course nothing can be compared to the satisfaction an owner feels when her hamster responds to a new type of food :) I understand this greatly. Perhaps you might want to switch to chocolate/yogurt for hamsters as a safer alternative? (Human cheese and chocolate is really dangerous for animals, even dogs.)

With regard to some of the comments Jade and SR have made about influencing others, I think your intentions are mostly good - I know a lot of people look up to you because you are approachable and very helpful :) I'm glad for that, at least they get information from somewhere.

However, I hope you do think about your impact on what other people are doing to their hamsters. Not that it is your fault they treat their hamsters this way - of course, they have freedom of choice! :P But more simply, I hope you realise that not everyone can be as careful or discerning as you are and, for example, may allow the hamster to devour an entire cookie by mistake, etc. Of course this is just an illustration and I hope you understand what I'm trying to put across :)

Although friendship is not an issue here (we're friends despite all this) I hope you will see that I'm speaking to you as a friend, because I truly am, and I do hope for the best health of your hamsters too.

It is true that I do know Jade in real life too, and whilst she has a very direct approach in talking, sometimes even appearing harsh, she's still got good intentions and concerns towards your hamsters, and all hamsters in general. I know it is hard for you to see that in her, so I hope you at least trust what I say.

Anyway..

Let's not make a war out of this - I'm sure you will agree that there is nothing for us, or our hams to gain from it :) *hugs* Let me know if you need any other info, in the meantime :)

d.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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jade_c  Pro User  says:

Hi Pyza,


I never said I think you are a "retarded 6 year who treats hamsters like toys." I believe that I have evidence, reason and substantiation for every point I make. I did not say that you are retarded. You do care about your hamsters, I know you do not treat them as plaything or mere objects to photograph. However, I think you are not strict enough with them. By not being strict enough, you are exposing them to certain dangers. So I think you could care more. I thought you might not be clear about a few points.

Firstly, it is a fact that you have fed them the human junk food. There are many cookie photos to prove the point.

Secondly, I do not doubt that Chmurka actually loves running outside. In fact, if given the opportunity to, my hamsters would love it too. However, it does not mean I would do it because of all the risk that entails that I have mentioned about. Okay, so you do not take them out to take photos, but even if it is because they like it, I still do not think that you should do it. Well, if you insist that it is okay, ask your vet, if he/she backs you up, then so be it. I however, will still not bring them out.

Thirdly, perhaps I have felt too strongly about Pompon's eyes popping out. It comes from a personal experience, Pudding's eye's popping out as far out as in the photos at the last few seconds of his life. Honestly, my heart ached when I saw Pompon's eyes. So yeah, I could have been too impassioned about it. However, I still believe that one should subject a hamster to as little stresses as possible if you could help it. Alright, I probably shouldn't have held others to the same standard as I do to myself.

The thing is, like Seattle Roll has mentioned, by how many people have stood up for you has proven the fact that you are by default a hamster role model. You might not have chosen to be, but it is a fact that many people look up to you. It is pointless telling people not to see you as a role model when you are already one. :)

Anyway, yes I have seen you from the day you came on flickr. There were times when I truly liked your photos as well. But after some time haven't you noticed that I dropped by lesser? Honestly, I do think your photos are very well taken. It is just that I do not agree with so many things that you have done (which I have recently mentioned), that I checked in lesser, commented lesser, faved lesser.

Yes, it seems all of a sudden to you, but over my side, I have been bottling my opinion for some time (my personality). So yeah, I recently realised that I am not the only person feeling this way, which affirms myself that I am not having wild or inaccurate perceptions, therefore I only stepped in to comment now.

But I do have to apologise for sounding too harsh. It is hard not to get agitated by the backlash either.

Well, I am not an idiot who likes to stir up things and incite trouble. I have been aware of the backlash that is and would come. In fact, I welcome them, since it is them that I want to address as well. My point is educating them.

I thought you would be able to take the criticism. Since you say you do care about them, you should understand very well where I am coming from.

Is it all that unexpected? If you haven't been feeding them questionable things and bringing them to questionable places, this would never come. Have you seen me attacking people like Hesedetang and Seattle Roll? If it's a popularity thing, I guess I would gain more by attacking them, won't I? But the thing is that, they have done nothing wrong, and I know that they love their hamsters utterly, and would never do the same things as you have done.

Is it unfair? Like I said, would I have said these things if there were nothing to talk about?

Is it unnecessary? Like it or not, plenty of people look up to you as an example. At the very least, you should have a disclaimer if you know what is going on in the description of each photo. Like hesedetang does for her baby hamsters when she handles them.

And the thing is that you have been uploading photos of hamsters holding junk food for so long that I am not clear if you actually know that it is bad or not. Once or twice in the beginning I can dismiss it after some time, but the thing is that it has continued. That led me to believe that they get junk food regularly. How am I supposed to think otherwise when there are no evidences to prove otherwise?

I know you know Muffin, since you have taken this photo and mentioned her. Therefore, you should know that too much fats or sugars (because excess sugars is converted to fats) is bad? I have learnt a hard lesson with her, and I don't want others to have to learn it the hard way as well. Then, I honestly did not know either that human food and fats could be so bad.

So yeah, since I have known you from when you first joined flickr and you've been my contact since you were new, I have been aware of the going ons of your photostream. It isn't hard to dig out an old photo because it had bothered me right from the beginning. I just didn't have to guts to bring it up. Honestly, I do not have the responsibility to correct you either. Why should I have to care?

The thing is, you are a role model and that I have seen your hamsters from when they were young. I don't want to have to see them fall sick because of accidents because you are not as careful as I am. I think it's better to be too safe and too careful than not. Won't you want to reduce the possibility of illnesses down to the absolute minimum?

Fine if you think I am patronising, it's hard to when I'm trying to correct some one. I only added so many links and substantiation to cement my point. It is a habit of mine to substantiate what I say. I do not like to speculate. Honestly, I got sick of waiting for you to realise that what you are doing is wrong. Fine if you think I am nasty. I don't care for popularity or for people to like me. I am being true to myself here, and if people don't like it, so be it.

The reason it is put out in public is because I have nothing to hide. Sure it could be easier for both of us if I had just mailed you. Honestly I forgot to think about that option. But don't you think it would be easier for me to to do it privately, since it would spare me of those personal attacks (hahah, that I honestly don't care about).

In fact, I put it out in public because of the audience we would have. I knew your adoring fans would come in to defend you, and it is precise them I want to educate. Well, from the second I posted it, I have gotten flickr mails and emails from like-minded people. And there are people who really don't know that hamsters can't eat the same things as we do. I was trying to reach out to them.

I have stated facts, and what your actions and photos have led me to believe. I have tried my best to substantiate it. I do not think I am making a personal attack. I do agree however that I could have been more sensitive and thought about what you felt more. However, I stubbornly stick to the points I have made. If I have hurt you, I am sorry. The thing is, like Debbie said, "there's no good time to say "look what you are doing is not right.""

I though, had believed that you would be able to take it more gracefully since I did think that you do care for your hamsters, but perhaps are a tad misguided. I still think your photos are well taken, and like the pictures you draw about them. However, honestly I do not like how you hand them those food and take them out. I think it's too casual, and you should have been more careful about things like that.

I just wish you could be more careful with them, because hamsters are very delicate creatures. I have learnt things along the way, some of them hard, and I am trying to pass it on to you. If you choose to be offended, so be it.

Well, if you think I'm being unfair, lets just wait for "other good hamster owners" to reply.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Miko 姫 says:

Everybody is now really agitated. Please take a step back and look at it rationally.

Yes.. Perhaps it's a better choice should Jade had done it privately. But it's already been done, and can't be undone.

I'm not a really great owner or anything. I've brought Stuart & Toffee out to the national stadium once, not knowing about the risks that could occur due to mites, etc. After reading these few threads, i was aware of my ignorance. If i had knew it then, i would not have taken that risk.

Jade has always been a rather straight forward and frank person. It may seem like it's a personal attack, but it's not. her intention is just to make it known and raise the awareness of people who come to Pyza's stream. She has no ill intentions. It just happens that her good intentions come across rather harsh.

We know that Pyza loves her hamsters and simply adores them. Her pictures of her hamsters are beautiful. A lot of people come to her stream and enjoy her beautiful pictures.

When uninformed people look at her beautiful pictures, they might get the wrong idea. Because they would think that her hamsters actually ate all those food or flower. Neither do they know if, it's actually hamster food or real human food.

With popularity and fame, comes along great responsibility. Just like public figures, they have to watch what they do or say. They are a public figure, they're supposed to set a good example.

Pyza is kind of like a public figure in Flickr, with regards to hamsters. She's famous and popular with many hamster owners. We can see it from the number of people standing up to her and putting down Jade, for voicing her opinions publicly.

That's why, Jade, SR etc.. are highlighting their concerns about the pictures. It's better safe than sorry. Just because it didn't happen now, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.

To those who think that Jade is doing all these just to generate traffic to her photo stream. If she wanted that, she could have done that a long time ago. Why wait till now?

There are other better ways of generating traffic. Writing all these in pyza's photo stream will not generate traffic, or make people want to go to Jade's photo stream. Instead, it makes Pyza's fans dislike her and want to boycott her photo stream more. Think about it... It makes sense.

Most of us here are grown ups, sensible people, who know what is right and wrong, good or bad. Let's all handle this civilly. There's no need to make the situation worse, or add more oil to the fire.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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annia316  Pro User  says:

pyza, i am sad you feel so offended. I already posted my statement on the other thread: www.flickr.com/photos/chmurka/2514477588/comm ent721576052...
And SR, Jade_C, Hesedetang and miko already said everything.

Basiclly its all about you being a role model for many owners (even for me sometimes!) and on behalf of all hamsters out there you should be aware of that. Be aware of it not for our sakes but for the sake of each little hamster out there who's owner is following your photostream. xoxo
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Supermunchie  Pro User  says:

24306325@N05 Its great that you understand Klara, but wouldn't it be good and nice to undersrand Jade_c's as well? And an "sorry" goes a long way, I'm not saying you should say it Klara or Jade_c, thats up to you.
And Jade_c is not 'nasty' she is a loving and caring woman, who was only concerned. She knows so much about hamsters, like some of us do.
But remember, a young and unexperienced person may look at the photo of Chmurka by a cookie and try it themselves, not knowing that Chmurka was only with the Cookie, not eating it.
Klara, I know you know that she was concerned, but maybe put a disclaimer on your photos, like you did with the flower one :)
Please remember I am on no ones side.
And before we put comments which put bad things on poor Jade_c, lets look at both sides, then comment.
:)
xXx and Hugs to Klara and Jade_c :)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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*Lee-Go*  Pro User  says:

I think that jade has no manners ... How dare she call you a retard!!! Personly, I think you are one of the kindest sweetest people on flickr. You seem like you are always happy and some of your photos put a smile on my face or make me laugh. your movies are great. And seriously, you are the best hamster owner I know!!
So, Klara, Do NOT listen to what this rather nasty person said. Just ignore it. Most of us all like you sssssooo much...
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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xfarmxgirlx says:

All I can say is, this is not right, Jade. Even if you do have issues by the way you think she keeps her hamsters, it is rather obvious that you should have had this "discussion" with her privately, to save humiliation, anger and disrupting a relatively happy flickr community.

I am not saying your points are bad or good, that it is correct or not, or that you should/should not have said what you wanted to say in the way you did - as we all over exaggerate when we get annoyed - just try and keep things like this private.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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annia316  Pro User  says:

*Lee-Go* > Did you actually care to read the other replys before you decided calling Jade_c "horrible"? Please stop those personal attacks and care reading the other side's opinion too before you say such offending and hatefull things. Such thoughtless comments really make me upset.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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hesedetang *  Pro User  says:

No matter whose side you are on, manners please. I know this is not my stream and nothing to do with me, but at the end of the day, vulgarities and violence do not accomplish anything, let alone help the course of discussion. On the flip side, how would you feel if such a comment was directed at you?
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Frikkadella  Pro User  says:

wowha Ariesmom1 that was waay over the line... way way way over it:S
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Supermunchie  Pro User  says:

Ariesmom, Laura and Lee go - Please stop and think, how would you feel if that was directed to you. Jade is only concerned.
Jade_c should of kept this private, we know that and so does she.
REMEMBER, Jade is only worried about the viewers looking at Klara's gorgeous photos.

Klara, I love this photo, hope all are well.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Honey Crystal says:

wow.... to many commets! But anywho! I think youre treating you hamster just right! Outside is the best way to keep a hamster healthy! Once I had a hamster and never took her out and she died in 1 year! But then I kept takeing my other ones out and what do you know! 3 to even once 4 years! Theres nothing worng with takeing your sweet hammie out! Hope you feel better pyza*! :) hugs!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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*Lee-Go*  Pro User  says:

Supermunchie + Annia, Look I am sorry if I have upset any of you but I still feel its rather mean of her to say what she did to Klara. If I was her I would be feeling very upset now. Yeah Jade is only concerned but not in a very nice way. And no, Annia, I did not read every single comment on this - They are way too long!! :)
Also I don't want to loose any friendships. I did not think that any of you would feel such a downer on my comment - I was just sticking up for Klara...
PS: Horrible isnt the word to describe her anymore.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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beansmeansheinz  Pro User  says:

i know im not really one of these hamster people but why is everyone arguing? its putting such a downer on everyone. Jade shouldnt of been worried there pyzas hamsters and she can do what she wants with them they seem happy enough and she can learn from her own mistakes. Now pyza has been really upset by this and it has caused rows between others. I know this from Lee-go he didnt meen to hurt any ones feelings why did this even all have to be brought up because everyone one in this "hamster comunity" got on so well before as i no from Lee-go
anyway just thought id say my point. And i hope everyone will get on how they did before and just care for there hamsters how they want to its there own problem.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

*nono [deleted] says:

if one genuinely desperately feels the calling and need to educate others, do it in your OWN flickr stream or show pyza privately how Pyza can educate in pyza's photo stream.
the world is filled with "seemingly do gooders" in name of "good will" but the method used to carry it out is nothing short of rude and infringing on one's paid pro account and the results EVEN less than satisfactory.

Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Melinda ^..^  Pro User  says:

toooooo cute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Junemrc  Pro User  says:

here's my two cents.
I do think Klara is a role model. that's not a bad thing. I think it's really good that she insists she's not an expert, it's important that everyone is recognizing that. she's a role model because she posts very popular public pictures.
if someone is so impressionable that they look at these pictures and feed their hamster bad foods then that's not Klara's fault. that's extremely irresponsible on the part of the owner. if an owner is that bad, the hamster would likely be mistreated with or without these pictures. we can't hold Klara responsible for someone else's actions.
I don't think there's anything wrong with posing the hamsters for pictures. if Klara poses them with a food they can't eat, I have no doubt that she monitors them very closely. when they're outside I know that she keeps an extremely close eye on them. yeah, sometimes I've thought it was risky to have two syrian hamsters together, but I know that Klara watches them closely for the short time she brings her hamsters together. I would not put two hamsters together, but I trust Klara knows what she's doing. if someone tries to copy something Klara has posed her hamsters doing, without looking up any safety concerns, it's their fault not Klara's.
I'm sure everyone involved in this ordeal is very concerned about hamsters and it's important not to make this full of personal attacks. it's unfortunate that this is such a public discussion. I think it's important to recognize the validity of most people's concerns and the value of everyone's feelings involved. I'm sure this can be worked out in a civil manner.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

WELL WHAT I THINK IS......... chmurka and beluzca look so cute together like little mommy and daughter hammies. ( just thought there should be a comment on the actual picture above) tee-hee
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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vikkisnowangel says:

ok, i cant read all of this, but just a quick reminder as far as having a hamster outside... its all good as long as they are in a controlled environment, fresh air, the sun and all that is good for every living being plus, they were and still are originally in the wild, WE cage them, but naturally, they like to come out and explore, so as long as there is nothing harmful, no chemicals in the grasses, no cats, no snakes, no birds of prey above, i say its ok to let ur hammie have a little backyard time, or even jsut in the cage so they get some fresh air and sun. it does every living being good to get some of that. i used to set up a play pen on the concrete on the back patio for my hammies cause there were hawks, but not under the patio covering >_0
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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springhawk  Pro User  says:

Oh I just found out about this crazy conversation-first I'm sorry Klara you have to endure? such an attack, I hope you know I don't think you mistreat your hammies! One thing to this-I've never had such a trustful, friendly and tamed hamster like Mocca about whom you cared so great so he grow up to be such! and I don't actually understand the problem-isn't this web supposed to be about photos? I mean nobody ever said it's about professional hamm care and as for young hamster owners-I suppose they have parents, don't they, for looking over them.
I thought flickr is nice, friendly place but to accused someone publicly is not very friendly, is it? I think if someone is concerned about something we have privet messages!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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yeblit  Pro User  says:

I love this photo and added it as as fave!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Peape says:

Wow, Jade c was pretty blunt as what she wrote and how she feels.
Still I agree with her points although I would have kept them private to spare Pyza the humiliation.
Is obvious the Jade c feels the hamsters healths are more important that Pyza's feelings.
Its true that Pyza takes risks with her hamster that I would never do.
I would never let me hams near chocolate or feed them unsafe stuff let alone photograph them like this!
This picture is an example of such a risk.
Two risks! Feeding possble unsafe stuff and putting two adult Syrians close to each other like this is also dangerous. Syrians are very terrotorial and can fight sometimes quite suddenly.
Those that say its no big deal are ignorant and are inviting disaster.
Since I dont have any realationship here and I am on no ones side I can speak my mind. Sorry Pyza, but the truth hurts you take risks with your hamsters lives. Sorry Jade, but being right doesn't mean people will listen to what you have to say if you present it is poorly. My 2 cents. Flame away kids.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Kirpernicus  Pro User  says:

Very cute, great colors too.

Hi, I'm an admin for a group called Eye Candy!, and we'd love to have this added to the group!

--
Seen in the interestingness archives. (?)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Jorma McCracken  Pro User  says:

You're absolutely right, latinavera26! I said my opinion up at the top and didn't even say anything about the picture.... well, I think the picture is lovely! I love seeing those two getting along, they're so beautiful! After all, I agree with springhawk, this is a site for the enjoyment of photos! Be happy, please, everyone! =]
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Supermunchie  Pro User  says:

*Phew* Okay, I'm going to look at both sides of the story, then a conclusion (wow! History pays off!)
jade_c - It was very right to say that doing these photoshoots without the disclamer would be worrying. Imagine a child seeing two syrians together and trying it themselves, the results would be disastorous. As Debbie (hesedetang*) puts disclaimers on her photos, then its fine to shoot them as she is very experienced and she knows what she's doing, and as there is a note saying not to handle baby hamsters (for example) then no one unexperienced would try it :)
Now, imagine if Klara had put a disclaimer on the photo, would this fight of even started?
Klara - You are right how it was unfair that she posted it in front of everyone, but then, putting a photo messaging it again to everything is just making the whole situation bigger, have you heard the saying "if you fight fire with fire than you just get a bigger flame" in a way its true.
But you are a great hamster mum, you caring and sweet and loving, and we all look up to you, but thats why jade_c is concerned, as you are brilliant and careful with your hams, other people may not be :)
Conclusion - Jade_c was only worried (as I have said a lot! Lol) and shouldn't of maybe put it out like that, but she KNOWS that now. And Klara, you are a FANTASTIC hammie mum and we all look up to you, you are one of my best friends on herer and I can not bear to lose you! I'm on no ones sides, remember.
Jade_c has got a lot of bad comments, most are with people not thinking and just being plain hurtful, please just stop and think, how would you feel if it was directed to you!?

Now! Can we PLEASE have peace on beloved Flickr, hug and make up or something ;)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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pyza*  Pro User  says:


With popularity and fame, comes along great responsibility. Just like public figures, they have to watch what they do or say. They are a public figure, they're supposed to set a good example.
So we just want you to set a better example!
Join us in being a good role model...

Flickr is not a guide to hamster keeping.
I am not a teacher. I am not a parent.
I am a role model for people who know exactly what is right and what is wrong and how to take care of a hamster so I don't need to educate anyone.
And if some aren't like that, they have parents for that.

This is a pointless discussion (the most popular kind of discussion), because we represent 2 different ways of thinking. Your way is being too obsessive and over-worrying about hamsters' health.
Yet you have to understand there are people who dont think this way. Who don't obsess over bacteria. Who don't see danger everywhere.
Who let their hamsters have a more interesting, less-imprisoned life.
Who want their hamsters to have fun and be happy.
What's wrong with that?
Nothing, i think.
For me, hamsters are not born to spend their whole lives in a tank. Hamsters are not fish. I don't want my hamsters to live in a bubble.
So, I'm sorry, I don't fit in, I can't be part of your gang...

FEEDING JUNK FOOD

1. Jade C I do know that you try to choose the healthiest human junk food (that's what cookies and crisps fall into as well), taking for example the low sugar vanilla filling cookie and the low salt crisp, to feed them too.

I told you I DO NOT feed my hamsters with crisps and chocolate and cookies with filling, etc. And I am telling you again now. So please, stop it. Cos some people might really start thinking that I do that. I hope that's not your intention...

2. ...you have been uploading photos of hamsters holding junk food for so long that I am not clear if you actually know that it is bad or not (...) That led me to believe that they get junk food regularly. How am I supposed to think otherwise when there are no evidences to prove otherwise?

Gosh, what evidence do you need? This is ridiculous. Just accept the fact I give my hamsters healthy food. Again, accusation based on nothing at all.

3. BUT you do give people the impression that you do give them cookies (and claim that so and so likes it)

Yes, Szarotka loved cookies, it was a special treat for her. I am not a hypocrite and I admit it. You can see it in the movies. I choose low-sugar & non-sugar cookies and biscuits for dogs. They prefer tofu and other treats, though. But yes, a bit of cookie every now and then. Don't copy me, anyone. Eat the cookies yourself!

4. Jade C and Hesedetang Basically a domesticated hamster will accept almost everything that is fed to it.

That's so totally untrue. You're both hamster experts. You should know hamsters are not vacuum cleaners. They only take what they like. Hamsters are extremely picky! Every hamster owner will tell you that. I am surprised you don't know it.

Nevermind. I don't feed my hamsters human junk food. That's it.

MISTREATING POMPON

5. Well, I have pulled the skin of Muffin, Mint Tea (...) Hamsters eyes only pop out to that extent when they are distressed. and so on.

Hamster have individual traits. Pompon is not your hamster so you can't know if her eyes are like that naturally or not. Her eyes are just this way. Believe me.

6. From my experience, hamsters do not like to be held by their skin at all...I don't think a photoshoot is enough reason to do it

I NEVER said I hold her (or any other of my hamsters) by skin! I NEVER do! I find that gruesome. It's torture. Why do you say I said that I do??

7.I did not say that you are mistreating Pompon. I only feel that you are stressing her unnecessarily. But if you would like to admit as you did that stressing her is mistreating her, you are free to do so.

No I will not. Why do you think you have the right to say what I can do with my hamsters?
Should I ask for your permission to touch Pompon? Of course you wouldn't let me...

1 more thing: Jorma McCracken elswehere said: "And just to let Jade C know, dwarf hamsters eyes normally look like that when you pick them up. I know because my friend has had many dwarf hamsters, witch I myself have picked up and handled. They did the same thing as Pompon does." See?

OTHER VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES

Jade C says ~

8.And yes. From what I see from your photos I admit that I think that you are mistreating your hamsters. I will not deny that.

If you keep on saying things like that, this will never end. And I really badly want it to end.
One second you seem to be kind of saying you're sorry, the next you're back with harsh words and criticism and statements like this one: However, honestly I do not like how you hand them those food and take them out. I think it's too casual, and you should have been more careful about things like that. I just wish you could be more careful with them. And it makes my blood boil again.

But the more important things are:
You say ~ you want to EDUCATE:

9.In fact, I put it out in public because of the audience we would have. I knew your adoring fans would come in to defend you, and it is precise them I want to educate.

Well you chose the worst possible way to do this. Just as Spicykimchi said. Perhaps your intentions were good, but why did you choose to CRITCIZE and PATRONIZE? and not GIVE GOOD ADVICE? I thought thats what eduacating is about.

You wanted to educate my fans. I don't think there is need to. They are already educated. I am quite sure of that. Look at their photos. Look at their hamsters. They don't need no teacher like this...

You know, I think that's why some of the comments were so impolite and emotional and harsh.
Because perhaps my fans, those uneducated masses (Annia calls them "newbies") got the impression that you consider them... silly idiots? stupid kids? Yes, they're mostly young people. Does it makem automatically not very clever? and potentially hamster-killers?
Just care to go to Ehammie and look at the discussion board. You will see that those people fret over EVERY LITTLE THING... they are obsessively careful and loving. If I posted a photo of my hamster in a washing machine, they wouldn't go and throw their hamster in a washing machine.

You said to Bluepetmusiclover: the thing is, I and a few other owners have been aware of it going on for sometime, but just haven't spoken up about it. And yeah, we were intimidated by people like you.
Aaaa... so that's how it was. You were scared of them (there's no reason to be scared of Felicia, btw:). To me, that's... well that's so odd and sick, frankly. I just don't understand it...

I don't understand WHY you felt the need to educate us. Have you really noticed something bad going on? Somebody doing harm to their hamster, inspired by my photo? I haven't even seen a single photos of anybody feeeding a cookie to their hamster. I have lots of photos like this. Why has nobody copied me yet? Or just told me about it?

As far as I'm concerned, all I have done is, I made some people aware of hamsters, of the fact hamsters are living thinking feelign creatures, wonderful creatures.
The side effect of me posting photos was some pople got inspired and got a hamster which made their lives a lil bit better and happier, I hope.
I have never ever heard of anyone doing harm to their hamster due to seeing my photos. WHICH photos could that be, btw? You really shouldn't think people are stupid. You underrate those people and then patrnoize them and it's just not pretty.

10. Yes, it seems all of a sudden to you, but over my side, I have been bottling my opinion for some time (my personality). So yeah, I recently realised that I am not the only person feeling this way

You should have told me everything back then... I couldn't dealt with all that "right here, right now" (back then).
Plus, the fact your attack weas not spontaneous, but planned, is just plain terrible, and I now fail to understand you completely, yesterday I could understand your motives, now to be honest I don't. If you REALLY cared only about hamsters well-being, you would have done it in a totally differnt way! Anybody would!
But you chose to criticise me and patronize me and what has that got to do with making people more aware of certain issues?????

11.Honestly, I got sick of waiting for you to realise that what you are doing is wrong.

Oh per-leaze...

12.If you haven't been feeding them questionable things and bringing them to questionable places, this would never come. Have you seen me attacking people like Hesedetang and Seattle Roll?

No, I haven't. You have no reason to. They are perfect owners. They keep their hamsters in sterile conditions. They think like you. They are your friends.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST

13.I though, had believed that you would be able to take it more gracefully

Sorry to disappoint you again.
But it was you who started this.
And who said those thing in that kind of way and tone. Your words, your choice of words.
The fact it was a public PERSONAL attack and yet you didn't even refer to ME. You referred to me as "she". Is that graceful and tasteful?

I really want this to end. I'm tired.

It's boring.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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minarho1 says:

A little rationality:
I suppose in a hypothetical situation a hamster would gorge itself on junk food right away But we're all overlooking a very common and basic hamster-owner practice. . In the REAL world, hamsters don't gobble a treat right away-- they horde things first. That's what hamster means "to horde". They might try a nibble or a couple bites, then they usually stuff it in their pouches and then store it in their cages/pens.

That gives us the chance to take the treat away. If not right away, then by the time we clean their pens, which is often. Since Chmurka and co.'s pens are very clean, and you don't see the disgorged treats lying around in the pens, the natural conclusion is that that's what she does too. That's what MOST hamster owners do. We do it without thinking, so I can only assume Jade overlooked this as well.

Seriously, is there even a spec of stored cookie crumbs or noodle bits in the cages Pyza's various videos and photos? No. Not once.

When I had a hamster and I gave him some apple, he'd stuff it in his pouch and immediately bury it in his pen. Then I'd immediately dig it out. No harm done. I doubt he even remembered he had the treat in the first place.

Lots of *hypothetical* uproar with no real world proof.

Sheesh. That's drama for you.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

uuhhhhhhh............ ya so, chmurka and beluzca really look cute in this picture, don't they??
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Arathrael  Pro User  says:

Hrm. Such controversy.

jade_c's intentions may be good, but to effectively publicly suggest in such a manner that someone is a bad animal keeper is, well, unwise to say the least. A quiet word is better than a shout.

I personally think pyza* is a good keeper. She cares deeply for her pets, and discussions in the comments on many of her photos and in group discussions shows that she thinks carefully about their care.

On the subject of taking hamsters outside: that is entirely down to the owner's discretion. There is potentially an increased risk (the exact amount depending on the exact circumstances) from other animals, bacteria, pesticides, etc., but that applies to every living creature including you and me. If the animal enjoys the experience of being outside, then the owner may feel that the increased quality of life outweighs the increased risk. For some animals - cats and dogs, for example - that's an easy call to make. For rabbits, it's perhaps less clear, and for ferrets, rats, and hamsters it's even less so. But it's ultimately down to the individual owner to make that decision.

As far as being a role model goes, if there is ONE lesson to teach people, then that is that they have to think for themselves, do their own research, ask questions... not just blindly make assumptions and copy what they see someone else doing.

Finally, and as an aside, theobromine (as found in chocolate) is not actually as toxic in hamsters and rats as it is to dogs. Rats with respiratory conditions can actually benefit from a small piece of dark chocolate given daily, as the theobromine acts as a bronchodilator. That said, chocolate should still not be given to hamsters due in part to its high fat and sugar content, and also because it can melt in the pouches.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

sooooooooo, hmmmm, how about those hamsters! huh! realy cute!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Weich Taube  Pro User  says:

you know... they are so beautiful... and I am sure than both have a lot of peace in their hearts
I just want to kiss CHIMI and little BUN and give a lot of kisses XD

=^-^= kisses TAUBE
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

\\ s k y e [deleted] says:

so cute!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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wardahputeri says:

Little cloud and little bun are very cute!!!
I adore them....
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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bluepetmusiclover says:

lol at latinvera26 ;) Chmurka's eyes are so huge. Buleczka's eyes are tiny ^^
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Peape says:

Man, if I wasn't on anyone side before I am now.
Pyza, you refuse to act as responsible hamster owner.
I have taken a look through your photo stream and see mistake after mistake. Every single one your hamsters has been "posed" with unhealthy food many times. Even if they are just "posing" with the junk food what was the point?
Do you think its cute to "pose" your hamsters with chips and cookies and chocolate?
The fact the kids look up to you for these pictures makes me angry.
What kind of message do you think you are sending? In my opinion a terrible one. You make it seem ok, in fact many of your "fans" have even admitted in this thread and the last one that they give their hamsters junk and its no big deal.
Way to set a good example.
Also you routinely pose your hamsters with each other, which is extremely dangerous with Syrians as they are prone to fights. Syrians are meant to be solitary!!
One bite and one of your hamsters could be maimed or worse. I really feared for Pompom in a few pictures. You got lucky Chmurka didn't seriously hurt him.
Sure it looks cute, but it is a stupid thing to do and really speaks of ignorance towards hamster behavior.
And before you say but my hamsters are different, so what!
Again it is a terrible example to set!
Jade C bringing this to your attention should be a wake up call, but instead you are using it to "play victim" and get more attention from your "fans". Sure Jade C hurt your feelings, but she did so by telling you the truth which you refuse to listen to.
There are some people who put want to raise the quality of life for all hamsters by helping educate those who are new to hamsters.
People like Hesedetang and Seattle Roll and Annia actively promote hamster health and well being on Flickr.
From what I can see your pictures do the opposite and promote ignorant, unhealthy and outright dangerous behavior.
You have a lot to learn about how to REALLY take good care hamsters.
In my professional opinion, your are a terrible role model.
If you are , as you say, not a role model then stop taking pictures of hamsters and give your existing ones away. You are doing people who really care about their animals health and well being a disservice.
I know you won't like what I have to say and I don't care.
Someone has to try to get through to you that what you are a doing is NOT OK!
My goal in posting this is not to save your "feelings" or to get popular, it is to get people to wake up and take better care of their animals. Period. Get with the program!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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tokvikava  Pro User  says:

I won't add many comments to the discussion above... I have already expressed myself in the comments about the photo where it all started... But I am amazed at the intensity of the "battle" which is still going on... What about taking some time to think about it all... O.k. there are many valuable points on both sides, could we please share them without judging anybody? There were too many crusades in the history in the name of the so called truth... the one and only one.... And if somebody attacks, the other person is cornered in defense.... Nobody wins, everybody loose...
Pyza, I can feel that you are a great mum for your hamsters... You know, one famous psychologist prones, that it takes for an optimal human developpment, among others, a "good enough" mother as an opposite of the "perfect" one... The "good enough" mother adjusts herself as she sees her offspring grow, makes mistakes, learns from mistakes, sometimes doesn't know, ...etc... The perfect one would know all in advance and would be able to prevent everything.... which means sadly less development for her kids, besides the fact that it is a mission impossible to reach. I think, it can be easily applied to hamsters and their caretakers too. Anyway, I think you don't need to justify yourself... it feeds the fire. You have prooved many times in your photo descriptions and comments that you really care for their well-being... And I have no doubt that you are such a "good enough" mother and caretaker of yours hummies... I don't see any sign of harm on them, only speculations of others.... There will always be somebody who needs to control his environment more than you in order to feel more secure...
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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joz ~* says:

There's no doubt that Pyza loves her hammies dearly & she understands them personalities more than anyone else.

We all have different perspectives & we learn as we go along so there's no need to get so harsh on each other...
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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sophiatansg  Pro User  says:

Yes latinvera, they look adorable! :D Poor you, I know you have been trying to change the topic for a while hahha...
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Shoky Bsbs  Pro User  says:

Congrats it's on Explore
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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hesedetang *  Pro User  says:

My dear Pyza,

As a friend of both you and Jade, I am extremely disappointed that you have chosen to mis-interpret my intentions. If anyone I knew, Miko, Jade, Annia or SR, was doing something wrong, I'd probably let them know too.

I have, from the start of this, understood how it must hurt you to be told in such a public and direct manner. There is no issue that Jade should have privately talked it out first. We are agreed on this, I am sure.

I'm tremendously sad to see you put words in my mouth. I have never said a lot of those things, let alone tried to "intimidate" you in anyway.

More than anything, I've certainly never said I am a perfect owner. I have never tried to claim that I know better. In fact, I am still learning about hamsters until this day, even though I've had countless generations of hamsters since 1996. I rely heavily on research done over the years and experience to form any hamster related opinions, but despite this, I could still be mistaken.

I also have never said you are a bad owner and bad role model. In fact I have on many occasions recommend your photostream to different people, and I supported you and said it is not your fault that people may try to follow your example (it is their own choice).

Perhaps you didn't mean to say this of me and that it is easier for you to reply us by putting the four of us together, it's okay, I understand. I'm not here to argue, or to prove anything.

To me, we all met here in Flickr because we love photography and hamsters. I really enjoyed the hamster-lover community in the past, until this regretful incident. I'm just very sad things are going to end this way between us.

As always, you have my best and fondest wishes to you and your darling hamsters. I know they will always be loved and cherished and to me, this is important too. May they live long and healthy lives and bring you much joy and happiness :)

Debbie
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

right............sooooooooooooooo,,,,,,, is that tofu chmurka's eating? ha-ha, that chmurka and her tofu, so cute. I think it took me 5 minutes just to scroll down to make this comment, sheesh!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Miko 姫 says:

What we've meant was just good intentions. We're not good role models. Neither did we demand you to be one. It was just to inform, to highlight to you. To share with you our thoughts.

Should you think or feel that, what we are trying to highlight is reasonable and choose to take it into considerations. We would be glad. However, you have a choice in whatever you do. We can't force you into anything.

I've never thought of you as a lousy owner or anything like that. I know you love your hamsters, just that we love them in different ways.

If you feel hurt or annoyed by it, you have my apologies.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

I once had a pet roach named fillip,,,,,, just thought I would share that.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Supermunchie  Pro User  says:

Awww! So adorable (the pic)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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ChinchillaVilla  Pro User  says:

I'm LOL'ing at latinvera who keeps trying to break the ice ;-)

This is an adorable shot like all your hammie piccies and the new video is wonderful. I really must sign in to youtube so I can fave vids again. Got a new computer and can never remember all my damn password, usernames etc
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Frikkadella  Pro User  says:

LOL latinvera!!:)
I had a fly named lua.. (i was veeery young!)
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

Ariesmon1 [deleted] says:

sorry,that was my cousin and she was a big fan so if you get comments again like this one please tell that to her....sorry!My comment to Jade:Just please to just keep that private ok?
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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tokvikava  Pro User  says:

Is it just an illusion, or does really Chmurka have such big eyes? They are so cute...
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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zaferina  Pro User  says:

I bought a new Camera last year and was quite baffled as to how to use it. I went to the Fuji website to find out more then I went to Flickr to get inspiration.........thats all Flickr is people! Its not a how to or an advice website and anyone who looks for information or researches best practises on here are crazy. This is an online photo album. Thats it.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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♥ secret ♥ London  Pro User  says:

Hi, I'm an admin for a group called Beautiful Secrets ( Post 1 - Comment 3 ), and we'd love to have this added to the group!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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♥ secret ♥ London  Pro User  says:

This Beautiful lmage was viewed in:

"Beautiful Secrets"

And your pic deserves a lot more love!!!
Please tag your pic "Beautiful Secrets"
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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NaNa [supergirl] says:

This Beautiful lmage was viewed in:

"Beautiful Secrets"

And your pic deserves a lot more love!!!
Please tag your pic "Beautiful Secrets"
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Sr. BranquinhuH° © says:

lovely!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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amysimages2005 - xmas BUSY, will be back soon!  Pro User  says:

This is craziness, if you take your hampster for a freaking walk, then I think they can have a tad bit of 'different' food. This is just insane. I have owned many in my life, as a child, never once did I take them outside. I just fed them plain old hampster food and they were lucky if I played with them, again I was just a young kid, but serious, I think there are more important things to worry about in the world. This photo is sweet, she would probably be after me as well if she knew how many pics I took of my cat, ohhh I better run and hide. I don't think so, plus I couldn't get her to eat chocolate if I tried, but perhaps since I don't want her killed on the highway and I keep her as an indoor cat I am cruel! This is all just stupid, move on, and the sad part is you thought she was your friend. By the way, I just got off the phone with credit collectors which is why I could be so mad :)

This Beautiful lmage was viewed in:

"Beautiful Secrets"

And your pic deserves a lot more love!!!
Please tag your pic "Beautiful Secrets"
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

aww man!!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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dominio__  Pro User  says:

beautiful
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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amysimages2005 - xmas BUSY, will be back soon!  Pro User  says:

By the way, don't they eat these things in some parts of the world... no wait, that is cats and dogs, lets go after them too... woohoo!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Austin Sullivan  Pro User  says:

Wow I read a little of the fight and all I have to say (because I don't want to get into it) Jade_c needs to worry about her own pets and keep what she thinks to herself and Pyza* can do what ever she wants with her pets.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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blautau says:

Diese zwei sind so was von süß, genau wie meine früher.
Einfach schön anzusehen.
Gruß Katharina
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Jorma McCracken  Pro User  says:

lol, latinavera26! Yeah, I once had a praying mantis named Robert. I let him go because he tried to attack me when I opened the jar he was in... it was scary! =]
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

I wonder if there is a comment limit? Its taking a while now to load this page in my lap top, and I have a cable modem for Pete sake! oh! and sorry to hear about Robert.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

does the person that adds the hundredth comment get a prize?
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Jorma McCracken  Pro User  says:

ooooh, that'd be cool! maybe we get a new camera! or free hamster food and toys for 3 months! lol =]
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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rach_thegoat  Pro User  says:

I was trying to decide if I should jump in all this and all I can say is:
Holy god, people! Peace! Peace!

Whew...

Ok, here we go...

(First, for the record: Yeah, this totally should have gone the email route, but here we are...)

I think it's safe to say that we all want what's best for our hamsters. The trouble comes with the definition of "best". For some, it's ultimate safety. For others, it's ultimate freedom.

What it all comes down to is knowing your hamsters. If you know what your hammie likes and dislikes, go with that. Every hamster is different. Some hammies love to explore. Others are home-bodies.

We all want our hammies to be happy and healthy... And it's obvious how much you love your hammies, Pyza...
...just as it's obvious how much Jade loves her hammies...

Maybe all this hurtfullness could be put behind in the light of hammie-love?

I'm paraphrasing, but I seem to remember some guy once saying that All You Need Is Hammie-Love...

(Man... I haven't seen arguments like this since Thanksgiving and Christmas with my family... ; ) )
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

ten more baby! were almost to 100!!!! winner gets an autographed picture of Piorko !!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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rach_thegoat  Pro User  says:

Hee hee... latinvera26, you crack me up... : )
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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goinonbro says:

This Beautiful lmage was viewed in:

"Beautiful Secrets"

And your pic deserves a lot more love!!!
Please tag your pic "Beautiful Secrets"
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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The Fifteenth Risk Taken  Pro User  says:

Supermunchie

YEAH, I AM looking at BOTH sides, I just think that Jades is completely outta whack. She says she wants to educate us? She not educating ANYONE, and she makeing a fool of herself. Maybe only to me, but she still looks so stupid to me with all this jabber. She says sorry, I dont wanna hurt you Klara, but come on! If she was sorry she would SHUT UP and mind her own business! OBVIOUSLY shes not making any difference to us or Pyza* and she is just hurting us, most importantly K, even ore with every sentence. But MAKE MY POINT CLEAR! I AM NOT saying that with every sentence we are feeling guilty or anything, I am just saddened by her hurtfulness and how wrong she can be. Apperently she needs to read my other comment on a seperate picture.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

the count down continues!!!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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wardahputeri says:

PIORKO's autographed pic?????
I'll be there C!
keep on counting!!!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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belletrist9 says:

I know my two cents are completely worthless and the fight will probably go on and on subsiding into self-righteous silence with hurt feelings abound on all sides for months. But I read all of it, on both pictures.

I just wanted to say that I am extremely disappointed in the way both Klara and Jade, and most of their defenders and detractors, have carried themselves in this argument. You have shamed yourselves disgracefully. Somewhere in the midst of this deafening roar, there was a valid argument that merited discussion. But it died, doomed from the beginning, buried by a mountain of belittling, name-calling, useless, pointless, uninformed, rash and quite frankly, stupid, comments.

To be honest, the thing that annoyed me most was that someone got knocked down for using "big words." Ooh. Apparently in this day and age on the internet, if you use correct grammar, punctuation, spelling and capitalization with concise vocabulary, you are automatically pretentious. Oh god, what will the masses say about me.

I am not going to point out all the hypocrisies and doublespeak on both sides because I doubt anyone would read them and take them constructively, as has largely been evidenced by the general tone of this argument. So... I will just say, it's very hard to deny writing something when it's there in print on the computer screen for everyone to see. It's also fairly easy to see when someone is blatantly twisting or misunderstanding another's words. Perhaps you didn't think about it or didn't state it clearly. Perhaps you should have.

In any case, Klara, you are a role model, whether you like it or not. Many times, I have considered and reconsidered adopting a new hamster because of your pictures. I don't think you're an expert and I know you've never claimed to be one, but your hamsters are so beautiful and look so happy and calm that I always think to myself - "she must be doing it right." I have thought many times to myself, maybe August would have liked tofu. Or maybe Nietzsche would have enjoyed some spaghetti. I'm sure a lot of other people think this too, and do take cues from the way you raise your hamsters.

You don't have to justify yourself, no one has a right to ask for that. All Jade should have been asking for is a little more explanation. Stop yelling at everyone else for keeping their hammie locked up in a glass tank and depriving it of all that is good in life. In doing so, you are only accusing others of being bad hamster parents as well. I would hazard a guess that most hamster owners are more careful with their pets than you are. That you can get away with it (and catch them on film!) speaks volumes of your ability as an owner and of your adorable hammies.

But the fact remains that not everyone has hammies like yours. And yes, some people are crazy neurotic about their pets and children, but honestly, even with my third hamster I would never have done most of the things you do with your hamsters, least of all take them outside (and then if only for the fact that if it used to take me 1/2 an hour chasing August around the living room to catch him when he got loose, how could I possibly keep him from running away and getting eaten if I took him outside?). I am continually amazed that you can actually photograph your hamsters, much less set Chmurka down outside on the grass. And I will bet you anything that somewhere, some little boy or girl saw those pictures and thought they'd take their hammie on a walk like the other kids do with their dogs, snuck past their parents, and ended up without a hamster.

Are they going to come back on this site and blame you for it? No.

Is it your fault? Perhaps not.

Should you feel bad? Probably.

Miko, SR and Debbie, congratulations for not getting (or at least trying extremely hard not to) emotionally involved in the argument.
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Seattle Roll (Away)  Pro User  says:

Pyza,

This would be my last comment and I'll not bother you anymore.
Again, it should have been done in private.
And how to Jade's approach was harsh. I do agree with that.

I don't think I'm a perfect owner like you said.
And I think it's impossible to be a perfect owner.
We're not a robot or something.
So sometimes I still do mistake to my hams even I have kept hams for over 6 years.
But I like to learn about hams and want to be a good owner. That's for sure.
Like I said before I did so many wrong things for my past hamsters.
While I was visiting the vet, I learned so many things from them.
So just wanted to share our experience or idea.
And yes, my hamster cages are clean but never "sterile".

Again, our (Me, hesedetang, Annia, Miko and Jade etc) intention was NOT attack or humiliate you.
I truly hope you understand that part.

This is my last and personal favor to you...
If....you understand it, I really appreciate if you stop stirring up anymore.
(I saw your recent photos of potato and MTV, car disclaimer stuff...)

Sincerely,
SR

P.S.
We all want our hammies to be happy and healthy... And it's obvious how much you love your hammies, Pyza...
...just as it's obvious how much Jade loves her hammies...

Thank you, rach_thegoat.
I'm very impressed your note :))
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

ONE MORE!!!!!!! who is it going to be!!!!! who will win the autographed picture of piorko and the official piorko action figure with life like fur,.............. drum role please!!!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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Luĭs Eduardo  Pro User  says:

Gran imagen
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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latinvera26  Pro User  says:

Hooooray you are the 100 comment!!!! (tell him what he's won johnny) an autographed picture of piorko and the official piorko action figure with life like fur and kungfu bite!!! thank you for playing!!!!!!
Join the Piorko fan club and get a autographed picture free!!!
Posted 19 months ago. ( permalink )

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