2007MAR301415

    What is an outliner?
    An outliner is simply a hierarchical editor that allows logical organisation of information visually showing a heirarchy of parent, child relationships. Outliners work because it is thought the heirarchy storage is somegthing that humans grok. [0]

    Why do I need one?
    The reason I need the outliner is simple. I need to be able to link blocks of information, links, text entries, images all in some form of hierarchy. I simply can't do this with the current set of blocks I have and hence the post, "Playing with blocks on the floor" [1].

    For any particular post I need some way of having say a text entry with the Entry block. Then at some time in the future I may add say 3 more comments related to that entry, a photo and several link blocks. All this can be acheived if I create an outlining block that acts as a skeleton that I can add extra blocks to.

    In essence the Outliner block is really just a connector that points to a parent and/or a child block. At the same time have a one to one relationship with an Entry, Link, Image block.

    Above picture
    The above picture shows that I can add various blocks together. The key bit is with a Outline block it holds together this structure. Think of the Outline block as just a connector on a block allowing them to be connected. The Outliner allows you to connect blocks together.

    Just what I want.

    More about Outliners?
    Outliners are the child idea of Doug Englebart [2] and has been continued extensivly by Dave Winer [3]. During the course of this write up I was listening to Dave on Outliners [3] and reading various references to Outliners [4], Dave Winer explaining outlining & programming [5], Doug Englebart [6] and Dave Winer meeting Doug Englebart in 2000 [7].

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    References
    [0] As heard in Dave Winers Interview on ITConversations, "Behind the Mic" with Doug Kaye, 1:09:05, 31.6 mb, recorded in 27/OCT/2004.
    http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail260.html
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    [1] Bootload image on flickr, 2007MAR231514, "Playing with blocks on the floor"http://flickr.com/photos/bootload/431100768/
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    [2] Wikipedia, Doug Englebart, "Wikipedia entry on Doug Englebart"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Engelbart
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    [3] ITConversations, Dave Winer, "Behind the Mic with Doug Kaye, 1:09:05, 31.6 mb, recorded in 27/OCT/2004"
    http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail260.html
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    [4] Google search, "dave winer & outliner"
    http://www.google.com/search?q=dave+winer+outliners
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    [5] Dave Winer, Outliners & Programmers, "Dave explains a bit of his history with outliners"
    http://davewiner.userland.com/outlinersProgramming
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    [6] Doug Englebart, "Dougs website, Bootstrap Institute"
    http://www.bootstrap.org
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    [7] Dave Winer meeting Doug Englebart, "Dinner with Doug Engelbart Friday, October 6, 2000"
    http://davenet.smallpicture.com/2000/10/06/dinnerWithDougEngelbart.htm l
    [Accessed Friday, March 30 2007]

    Comments and faves

    1. ★

      hawkexpress added this photo to their favorites. (63 months ago)

    2. Alessandro Gentilini (63 months ago | reply)

      Note [3] says "recorded in 27/OCT/2007", maybe it's an error?

      You could add a "date checker" in your blogging engine for checking date when you enter a post text :-)

      Ciao,
      Alessandro

    3. bootload (63 months ago | reply)

      Hey Alessandro, right it was recorded in 2004. Good listen too.

      '... You could add a "date checker" in your blogging engine for checking date when you enter a post text :-) ...

      good point. do you mean when I enter freestyle text & test the dates entered are within ranges like must be in the past but not in the 1900's?

      Or say in references only and check the reference dates? Thinking about it I should add the references as an extra block. It might be a pain to do and not worth it but it means you could then have a list of references per post.

      This means I would know exactly the context to scan dates. Is there a chance a reference is created in the future? Or back before 1900?

      The bad bit is the key thing I want is ease of input. Putting lots of posts into more boxes is a PIA. Have to think about that one.

      [thinks maybe I should fire up the scanner on the windows box & scan the crud I have to scan to get the recipe that your've been waiting for ? :(]

    4. musha68000 (63 months ago | reply)

      Hi BootLoad, I have not been around for a while I hope you are doing fine! :) Do you use UML 2.0 for modeling? Have you ever used mindmaps for simpler tasks? Good FLOSS-tool for this purpose is FreeMind. Do you use that block kind of outlining technique for structuring your thoughts (e.g. planning your personal plans/projects) as well? I have come around this great book which I read some months ago, productivity is up like never before since then. Though its use is more connected with the non-discrete information needs of everyday life and system administration than with software engineering. But I would highly recommend it still for everyone interested in productivity these days.

    5. bootload (63 months ago | reply)

      '... Hi BootLoad, I have not been around for a while I hope you are doing fine! :) ...'

      Yeah mate I'm well thanks. Been checking your page but it's been a bit bare.

      '... Do you use UML 2.0 for modeling? Have you ever used mindmaps for simpler tasks? ..'.

      UML, no. I'm going to use the Mindmaps concept for tagging (linking across different ideas) but tree hierarchy or outliners (tree) for other more complex mapping of visual information.

      I've never used FLOSS tools though I have inspected FreeMind. Looks like a great tool but really most of the tools I have are bits of paper, lego blocks and notes I've collated here. Using the three in combination I can usually create code from them.

      My workflow goes something like:

      * idea (think while I'm walking)
      * write idea down on paper (talk about idea in words)
      * draw the idea on paper or make a quick lego model
      * write up the idea in a blog
      * create some code matching the best bits I've written about

      Using other software tools isn't as fluid. Not using formal UML may come to bite me (I'm thinking of some programming competitions where everything was written down to the last detail) but at the moment the speed from idea to execution to a prototype. Get the code working. I'm going to re-write/iterate anyway.

      '... Do you use that block kind of outlining technique for structuring your thoughts (e.g. planning your personal plans/projects) as well? ...

      Bastardised GTD method dumping everything onto cards for the day. Then working out what I need to do for the day.
      A mixture of test code + writing some automation code (next up is automating the dump from svn to backup.tar so I have a daily backup of cvs so I re-build it again) to actual functionality I need.

      Just enough code to make something that works. Then move forward. Make sure its got some test coverage, then more automation. Then write about it.

      '... I have come around this great book which I read some months ago, productivity is up like never before since then....'

      I've downloaded the freeby. Give it a look see.

      '... But I would highly recommend it still for everyone interested in productivity these days. ...'

      Scanned, "the cycle". Pretty interesting. Might see if it's worth ordering. I like the bit it's portable & paper based. Though paper based systems have their problems :(

    6. Alessandro Gentilini (63 months ago | reply)

      Hi Bootload,

      "good point. do you mean when I enter freestyle text & test the dates entered are within ranges like must be in the past but not in the 1900's?"

      maybe checking date in freestyle text it's not useful. Date can be in the past ("My grandfather was born in 1902") and in the future ("I will climb Monte Rosa in 2008") and to check these dates you need some analysis: "My grandfather was born in 2008" is not trivially checkable.

      "This means I would know exactly the context to scan dates. Is there a chance a reference is created in the future?"

      Yes, with a context analysis is easier. Maybe, depending on what you read and write about, there is a chance a reference is in the future, for example in august 2003 you could have read (and then wrote about) this preprint:

      Michael Malisoff and Eduardo Sontag
      "Asymptotic Controllability and Input-to-State Stabilization: The Effect of Actuator Errors"
      Invited paper for Springer-Verlag book Optimal Control, Stabilization, and Nonsmooth Analysis (Marcio de Queiroz, Michael Malisoff, and Peter Wolenski, Eds.), to appear in 2004.

      "Or back before 1900?"
      That is more common than the previous example.

      It looks like my idea isn't so easy treatable :-)

      [thinks maybe I should fire up the scanner on the windows box & scan the crud I have to scan to get the recipe that your've been waiting for ? :(]

      yum, that would be nice :-)
      All the best,
      Alessandro

    7. ★

      schee, Alexandre Dulaunoy, and akunce added this photo to their favorites.

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