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I think people should just stop tagging their images so carefully - if there's a grey area, it's a photo/video, I say! Any exif data in your photoshop work? Photo! A photo reproduction of your art? Photo! Any video you think should be included in searches? Photo/video it is! Clearly the Flickr staff doesn't care about specificity all that much having left all the recent discussion unadressed, unless Eric's gone to bed already - in which case, my apologies for your presumed snub, Eric, and sweet dreams (be careful how you tag them).
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greynotgrey edited this topic 50 months ago.
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Don't underestimate yourself. Your feelings may be generated by what you believe is "art". Art can be inspired by pure thought or what you see around around you. Not everyone has the dexterity to recreate exactly what they see or is present in front of them but their creation has no less merit. I find myself inspired by both the Art(sic) and Photography on flickr. Of course I often take the inspiration in a personal direction but seeing it gives me some idea of what is possible.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Careful, if it's "art" nobody will find out about it. Better to keep that under your hat, around here, anyhow.
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greynotgrey edited this topic 50 months ago.
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greynotgrey I don't tag my dreams. Sometimes they tag me.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I knew a guy named Art. I never saw him wear a hat in my life.
Posted 50 months ago.
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You're it!
:D
Seriously though, it's clear there is a lot of disagreement on the separation of art/animation & photo/video.
Why the staff won't comment is a bit mystifying, though not particularly surprising. The customer service around here is as opaque as the TSA.
Posted 50 months ago.
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greynotgrey
Why the staff won't comment is a bit mystifying
They almost did when they told us that screencast were going to be filtered as screenshots and animations as art...
But I really would like to know their position on changing the default settings for animation/art.
I mean, they're introducing VIDEO, with global settings and advanced search modification...It would be the perfect moment to make that move and reconsider their position:
It's not The Searcher's birthday everyday!
Posted 50 months ago.
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I'm on a free account so cannot (and do not want to) use this video feature...
I'd like to know why my photostream page header says "photos & video from Penny T"...
Can this be changed?
Posted 50 months ago.
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Penny T
Yep!
They're working on it, it will be done automatically.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Tekrotzen
great
thanks!
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I just would like to say that I too would like artworks and illustrations to be brought to equal footing to photographs and video's.
just my 2 cents :)
Posted 50 months ago.
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Well let's just say, I'd disappointed and might not continue maying for PRO features - in fact i'll start looking for an alternative very soon. If I wanted to find video I'd go to YouTube.com or video.google.com - not flickr. If you can't beat them - look elsewhere.
Yahoo have 2 assets that google doesn't and it seems there letting those slip through there fingers with miss-management.
And to top this all this will be M$ property too in a few months - so nothing will belong to us.
(I expect my account will be suspended or my post censored now.)
Posted 50 months ago.
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m1dlg
(I expect my account will be suspended or my post censored now.)
You shouldn't. ;)
Posted 50 months ago.
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Have you seen the number of posts in this forum? Most of them are critical if this feature. Yet all are still here.
Where would you go to find video if youtube or google wasn't there? Isn't that like saying if I wanted to find a cheeseburger, I'd go to McDonalds! I don't want to see cheeseburgers at Jack in the Box. McDonald's already makes them!
Welcome to commerce.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Personally, I think Flickr's more like a Red Robin than a JITB, but that's just me.
;)
Posted 50 months ago.
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I love it how they're always "working on it"
That's real funny.
Imagine a non-pro account still indicating photos and videos.
Of all the lamebrained....
I'm beginning to suspect it's a case of the left hand not know what the right hand is doing in the same room.
Yikes!
Posted 50 months ago.
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PayPaul - they have a lot going on, including translating everything into all the current languages they support.
They also have to do all their normal work as well, I'm sure. They have said they're working on it. What more do you want?
Posted 50 months ago.
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m1dlg I can't say there are really many viable alternatives to flickr and all its other features. Youtube, Myspace, Deviant Art, Ipernity and a lot of others don't have forums and groups with this kind of interface. I like the interface for the most part. There is no other comparable site for the same money.
Aside from the silly, inexplicable errors that appear, flickr is better than the rest of them.
Posted 50 months ago.
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<-- AAAAAh! just realized it was a donut.
Regarding the "working on it" statement, if they prefer "looking at ways we might be able to provide views on a person's photostream that would allow you to see only their photos and/or only their videos" before, I don't blame them.
Posted 50 months ago.
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What more do I want?
To be serious, better explanations not ambiguity. Solutions not vague promises. "We're working on it" doesn't cut it. From the example of the non-pro account that had been labeled "Photos And Video from PennyT" to the site wide conversion of all the groups here to Safe level it has the appearance of being thrown together with glue, string and spit. A hell of a way to run a railroad as someone once said. Some of their answers are more what I'd expect from Politicians on both sides of the aisle.
But I do wish they would find my Missing Chickens!
I DEMAND Flickr find my Missing Chickens!!
Posted 50 months ago.
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To be serious, better explanations not ambiguity. Solutions not vague promises.
If they are still working out how to do something, then there is no solution to give you until they work it out. From your logic, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they come in here every hour to tell you that they are still working it out, that won't please you, either, will it? If they give you a date as to when they'll have a solution, and they don't make that date, that won't please you either.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Maybe a more timely rollout policy is indicated. Say, for example, when a feature is actually ready. Translations done, language considerations done, logical default settings done, etc., etc. Oh, and Flickr members, Pro or otherwise, notified that the change is about to take place. In other words, treat people like valued customers. It's not rocket science.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I'd be happy if they'd just answer questions - the general level of apparent disinvolvement is incredibly unimpressive ... if my web space host (for instance) had customer service this crappy, they'd be out of business... the only reason Flickr can get away with it is they offer a unique service. I ask a question to my host, no matter how inane, I get an answer back, by a real person, the same day. Every single time. Here you're lucky if your question is even acknowledged.
Sure the service is unique, but wouldn't it be nice to think that in this brave new web 2.0 world your status as subscriber was more than the equivalent of paying your bill to your isp? Come on, folks, we create the content, we create the tags, we create the groupings and even the groups themselves, moderators and members both - shouldn't our concerns even be addressed? This is a major money maker for its owners, let's not forget - we're workers too and deserve some respect.
If you don't think the illustration crowd doesn't feel blown off, you haven't been listening. Even Eric addressed it, albeit flippantly, his response to the Searcher was the politest "go fuck yourself" I've heard in ages. He may as well have said, "We hear your complaint, we understand your complaint, but we aren't going to address it or deign to explain ourselves, thanks for making our bosses rich so we can have jobs". Nice.
I'm beginning to regret prepaying my account in advance. Knowing what I know now I don't even really see what the advantage of a pro account is.
In lieue of a real answer to the question, "Why is "art" second class content?", I'll give one:
Because it is. Thank you, come again, keep providing content for our cash factory & paying us for the privilege to do so.
Posted 50 months ago.
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greynotgrey edited this topic 50 months ago.
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Answering questions would indicate an attitude of wanting to keep the membership informed; not part of the corporate philosophy at Flickr. If it weren't as serious as a heart attack, the chasm between the "Flickr loves you" public face and the "Flickr doesn't give a rat's ass what you really want" reality would be laughable. That's true whether what you really want is recognition of art as a legitimate form alongside photos and video or the capability of finding the version of the Uploadr that actually works without having to track it down through a million and one forum posts.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I think they're not answering because they want to keep my birthday present a surprise.
which I'm fine with.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Happy Birthday in advance, by the way, regardless of how this all works out.
;)
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This is like the" letters to the editor" section of flickr hehehe, goes to show we're a community of sorts, complete with all the headaches that come with.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Well, I finally did it. I am now tainted with the use of video on my Flickr stream. I still would like to keep it separate somehow. I just hope I can maintain my usual visual standards within the video medium.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I put up a test balloon video on the second day of video but the balloon got a hole in it and I ran out of duct tape. As soon as I can find a decent video editor I may just "dump" a few vids in my stream. I just have to keep "digging".
Posted 50 months ago.
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I've noticed the last couple of days that I usually have at least one or two photos on each Flickr display page that don't load (blank with an "x" instead of an image). I've almost never seen this on Flickr before. I don't know if it has anything to do with more video traffic being uploaded or played, but I thought I'd mention it.
Posted 50 months ago.
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cjknowles said:
If it weren't as serious as a heart attack, the chasm between the "Flickr loves you" public face and the "Flickr doesn't give a rat's ass what you really want" reality would be laughable.
"serious as a heart attack"? Really?
Calm down. A photo-sharing entertainment web site adding a video-sharing feature is NOT that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.
Posted 50 months ago.
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ClintRiter
That's a common problem, from long before video was added.
Here's the FAQ about it:
flickr.com/help/website/#171
Posted 50 months ago.
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Here's my take.
We want the emphasis on Flickr to be about images of real life. Those can take the form of a photo or a video, so we by default include both video and photo media types in search results.
We keep screenshots/screencasts and art/animation out of search results by default because those content types are not the kinds we want to emphasize. We don't prohibit people from uploading and sharing them in their photostreams, because they are close enough cousins to the preferred content types
As for the question of photo/video vs. art/animation, I'm not sure that can ever be answered definitively, and I know for sure it can never be answered in a way that is satisfactory to everybody, but I can maybe clarify a few things:
* Time lapse is (content type) video, in the same way that a long exposure photo of the stars is a photo. Time lapse is merely a sped up recording of things as they are, and is the fast cousin of slow motion.
* Stop motion video involving the (offscreen) manipulation of some object(s) is (content type) animation; it is not a recording of things as they are, but an "animating" (meaning "giving life") of things otherwise inert.
* A stop-motion video of you creating a painting is (content type) video.
* A photo of a work of art is in all likelihood (content type) photo. Members are free to use their best judgment when classifying.
* An image created in Photoshop is (content type) art.
* A photo brought into Photoshop and manipulated is probably (content type) photo. As manipulation increases, so does the likelihood that most people would think it is (content type) art. Members are free to use their best judgment when classifying.
* I have no fucking clue whether rotoscoped animation is (content type) video or animation. I guess I lean towards animation, but members are free to use their best judgment when classifying.
Notes:
* Differentiating between content types photo/video and art/animation is not meant to suggest in any way that photos/videos cannot be art; it is merely meant to allow a distinction between images created with a camera in the typical "point camera at something and push button so that light is registered on a digital or chemical sensor to capture an image of that something" and images created from whole cloth.
* The distinctions I've made above are not comprehensive, and most are arguable. Please forgive me if I don't participate in future arguments over them; I'll read everything, but I probably won't respond to much else.
* It is not entirely inaccurate to say that art/animation and screenshots/screencasts are "second class" images on Flickr, or that members who upload them are "second class" members. But I think that terminology carries a lot of baggage and is an unfair characterization. We run a photosharing site (now with video!) [<-- for the marketing dept.] and we want the site to have a certain flavor. We think it best succeeds when the emphasis is on (content type) photo/video. We don't have any dislike or bear any ill will towards people who upload images that are not (content type) photo/video.
I know analogies are all flawed in some way, but see if you get my drfit when I say I think it is unfair to complain to the editor of a miniature train magazine that she won't publish your photos of your ceramic dog figurine collection. Or to complain to the owner of a laundromat that he will not let you wash your dog there. Or to complain to the garbage man that he won't take away your dead dog. Things are designed with a purpose in mind, Flickr included. To take offense or to suggest that we intend any offense when we make decisions for the site so that our designs are best achieved is, I think, some muddled thinking. You are of course free to disagree with our designs, or to question if our decisions actually help us achieve our goals, but you should not expect us to give up our prerogative of making those decisions, or to change them because they don't make everybody happy. We will never make everybody happy; we wouldn't be able to do that even if that was our goal.
So, with that in mind, and also bearing in mind that we have had this help forum (for 4 years now) where members of the staff regularly participate in discussions with our users, and that we frequently make changes to the site as a result of those discussions, and that I don't think you'll find that level of engagement or responsiveness in any other site of this size, please adjust your personal interaction settings so that every "if you don't like it lump it" vibe you might get from the staff does not make your rude-o-meter go beep beep beep. Just because we can't or won't make the site work the way you or some coalition of people wants does not mean that we don't love you.
:)
(None of the above is aimed at anyone in particular, but is intended to respond to some general questions and attitudes expressed in the forums. With love, and hopefully humor.)
Posted 50 months ago.
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Eric (staff) edited this topic 50 months ago.
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Oh, and happy birthday Searcher!
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Where's the "fave" button for discussion posts??
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I appreciate the response from Colleen M, even though it isn't entirely responsive. I'm not experiencing that ALL the images are broken, just one or two--a different one or two, including sometimes my own, each time I reload a particular page. It looks more like the site is too busy to process all the info.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I haven't watched any video, since my initial sampling of six crap videos from the video, video, video group, but I suspect that many video uploaded aren't of "real life" but are rather arty-farty videos that are closer to drawing and illustrations than to photos. Also, try telling the Second Life folk that their screenshots aren't of real life.
Posted 50 months ago.
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ClintRiter, I assure you that your problems loading photos are not a result of the video feature. Your problems would be better dealt with in a different forum thread on your topic.
Posted 50 months ago.
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but I suspect that many video uploaded aren't of "real life" but are rather arty-farty videos that are closer to drawing and illustrations than to photos.
I haven't seen that in my travels. Most of the video uploaded does seem to be "real life" as described by Eric above.
ClintRiter There's a support thread or two running about your problem. Here's one:
www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/70913/
Posted 50 months ago.
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Well, Eric, that does clarify things somewhat. I appreciate your delving into the can o' worms, you clearly gave it some serious thought.
I also appreciate that you have basically greenlighted "art" as long as it is photographically reproduced, software editing of that photo and all.
If I understand correctly, If someone were to take a video of animation being displayed in an installation setting, say, that could be seen as photo/video... so it comes down to a question of reproduction method, not intent, which is fair.
Looks like I have some copy stand setup work ahead of me so my "art" can be considered 1st class.
;)
*dials back the rude-o-meter
Posted 50 months ago.
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Thanks a million for adding video - but please, please increase the limit.
By all means keep it for free users, if bandwidth is a concern, but I can't see why paid users shouldn't be allowed to have something like 10 minutes long videos.
Most videos I take with my camera or (more often) mobile phone are between 30 seconds and 5 minutes, and it is a real shame to lose a fat chunk of the 50% of videos that are above the pretty random 90 second limit.
Flickr with a 10 minute or limitless video playback: Covers all my internet image/video needs.
Flickr with 90 seconds video limit: Means I have to look for somewhere else to store/display my videos, which very often belong in a context where there are also photos.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Who cares what you call it..people are so hung up on labels. Get out and shoot.
Posted 50 months ago.
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"it is unfair to complain to the editor of a miniature train magazine that she won't publish your photos of your ceramic dog figurine collection."
Absolutely fair. I guess my confusion stems from once the miniature train magazine decides to publish photos of ceramic dog figurines, they for some inexplicable reason decide to leave them out of the table of contents and index.
"Images of real life" is the best way I think I've heard it put, though. Once you get into "photo" and what is a "photo" it devolves into all sorts of technical loopholes. Works for video, too (bringing us back to the actual topic, sort of.)
And Eric, I never considered that you and staff weren't listening. I know better by now.
[jp1799: I wouldn't be so hung up on labels, if the labels I was required to attach to my artwork, didn't hide them from searches. If it was just academic I'd be right there with you.]
Posted 50 months ago.
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It may be mostly moot, anyway. I get pretty inconsistent results using "advanced search" as it is. If I log out, then do a tag only search for "sunset", I get 1,971,487 results.
If I go into Advanced Search and choose to include art and CG?
I get 1,971,485 result. two less.
If I do a tag only search for JUST art/cg, omitting photos?
I get 3200 results.
I try the same thing 30 minutes later, I get 20 more searching for everything (instead of a lesser number), but only 2800 for just art/cg.
So those checkboxes may be mostly placebo as it is.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Most of all I pray you to develope the option "REPLACE THIS VIDEO".
It's really badly needed!!
Here I explain why
Posted 50 months ago.
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thank you for adding video...flickr, great job!!!!!!!!
Posted 50 months ago.
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I'm not interested in having videos on Flickr, although I have a ton on YouTube. It just feels wrong here. But anyway... now as I am organizing my photos, I see that they are no longer called photos. They are now "things." :-(
Things? That's the best they could come up with?
How about "items" at least?
I have 10 things in this folder. 15 things in that folder.
Just sounds so weird. Granted, it doesn't change the functionality of it for me, but calling my photos "things" just makes it seem that much more that Flickr doesn't consider its user's feelings... we value our photographs, and having them now called "things" almost feels condescending, as unintended as it might be.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Here's one of my latest favorite "Things"
www.flickr.com/photos/paypaul/2421587884/
Hey what else could it be?
An emphasis on photos still puts Art in second class status since artists can not have their work shown in public searches on Explore. I do not agree with flickr's marketing strategy and Eric's analogies comparing flickr to a niche magazine such as a Model Train magazine. Flickr is not just a niche market for photographers. Sheesh it started as an engine for an RPG. It has evolved immensely since then and should "emphasize" all contributors to the flickrverse on equal terms.
Posted 50 months ago.
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what Lu said where's the fave button for discussion posts :)
I'm loving video at flickr, and honestly I wouldn't have probably tried it, except I recieved and invite to a "just say no..."group and it made me curious as to why it should be no, and i discovered it should be yes.
and remember it's only a video, if you press play.
Posted 50 months ago.
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What about when I take a photo of some graffiti?
I think that would be both a photo and art but lots of people say graffiti is vandalism, but there is not option for that ;-)
Posted 50 months ago.
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As someone who primarily uses flickr to keep up to date with friends and family, I'd like to say a big "Thank You!" for adding video! It's hard to describe how cool it is to go through my best friend's Easter photos and be able to see her daughter walking for the first time or check out another friend's vacation photos and hear her laugh so hard that she snorts! To have videos alongside the photos from an event adds a whole new dimension to the experience that they've shared with me. It's really wonderful. Kudos, flickr!
Posted 50 months ago.
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G2 Studio, a replace feature for videos is coming.
rbatina, we're working on fixing the language, including getting rid of "things".
Posted 50 months ago.
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to be replaced with thingummybobs?
*hopes*
Posted 50 months ago.
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The only meaningful feedback I can provide is that it takes far too long for a video to download and play on one's computer.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Eric
wow, after a week away in the real world, great to find your reasonable explanations of flickr's target market and other stuff.
We're looking at ways we might be able to provide views on a person's photostream that would allow you to see only their photos and/or only their videos. This would NOT change the default view of a photostream, and it might not happen. No promises here.
thanks for the consideration.
of course, a toggle would be a useful feature for all--not just people like myself who have no use for video.
once again, my only concern is my Contacts page. that is where I LIVE in Flickr, and it is important to me to be able to control the display of that page to my preference.
I don't use Explore, rarely use Search, and don't spend lots of time in groups. my usage habits may not reflect those of the majority of your members, but they are "authentic" (to use a little flickr jargon...) and valid.
It is not entirely inaccurate to say that art/animation and screenshots/screencasts are "second class" images on Flickr
appreciate the honest addressing of this point, even with the dangers of unfair characterization.
based on your earlier comment on the 'primary type of Flickr member', I also accept that those of us who are more interested in photography for photography's sake are a minority. But please don't forget to throw us the occasional bone, even if it's already been slobbered over and chewed on by your 'first-class' members.
thanks!
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I thought it was that Photography was the "emphasis" that flickr chooses to focus on? Pun intended.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I would like to add my support to the inclusion of video on flickr.
I would, however, also like to suggest that any restrictions placed on art/illustration/screenshot, also be placed on video, and vice versa. I was under the impression that art/illustration/screenshots were not allowed on explore because they were not "photographs," and I believe that video fits this same description.
Obviously, video shares a lot with photography, but so do these other mediums...
EDIT: I was linked here from another group, and was unaware that my objection above had been addressed, and very eloquently, I think, by Eric already. I still, personally, would like the above to be true, but I realize that I misunderstood the basis behind the rules.
Posted 50 months ago.
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bluest_girl edited this topic 50 months ago.
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I really don't see the point of distinguishing between photos/videos and "art". Please drop this pointless distinction.It'll help make things a bit less of a headache on Flickr, which is quite frankly turning into a bad joke.
Posted 50 months ago.
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 "Please drop this pointless distinction."
How I wish the forces that rule the bandwidth world would heed that plea.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Great !
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Dear Flickr, please be hasty in enabling the ability to choose a thumbnail for our videos. If you want artistic videos uploaded here (instead of trashy youtube junk) then the ability to properly display the work is important. I have had to upload, delete, and then reupload because Flickr has randomly chosen a black frame as the thumbnail.
Posted 50 months ago.
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I second Mr. Country Mouse... amidst all of this discussion, one feature we really need if these videos are going to be like "extended photographs" is the ability to choose our own thumbnail. The ones randomly chosen are usually ridiculous. :)
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yeah, they've already said that's in the pipeline.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Feedback, huh?
Well, video's been up and running for a while now. I've seen a lot of the threads in the various groups. I've had invites from both the "Gawd, no videos on Flickr EVA" brigade and the "Video is the best thing Flickr EVA did for us" gang.
To be honest, I can't get worked up about it either way. I don't want to upload any video. I don't particularly want to watch other people's videos. However, I'm not set against anyone who does want to.
I've used the setting Flickr gave me and turned off the AutoPlay function. Result being - I don't see any video unless I expressly want to. They get to upload what they want to, I get to see what I want to. To be honest, videos have hardly infringed my Flickr viewing.
Marvellous - just what I needed.
(Oh...except for all this angst....I dread to think what the therapists' bills are going to be)
Posted 50 months ago.
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lol. The depth of analysis and human will driven logic on the now mutiple sides of the video issue (techno tit for tat) is quite the nerdy, socially experimental read here, lol.
I'm forever reminded, "Everything I learned, I learned in Kindergart(g)en"..... LOL!
yeah sure......... constructive contribution this statement has made here, I know, lol.
Posted 50 months ago.
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KaptainKaveman edited this topic 50 months ago.
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I hate the idea of having video here on Flickr. Now, I am thinking of leaving Flickr for good.
I specifically came here to enjoy still photographs. Why can't Flickr and Yahoo understand that? If I had wanted to post video I would have joined You Tube instead. Is that so difficult to understand?
Just as photo galleries don't have blaring music and TV screens, I don't want my images forced into some kind of competition against videos with all their movement and sound. That is the whole point of still photography.
Now I can totally understand that Yahoo may want to create a video site to compete with Google's You Tube. That is fine. However, one thing that is clear, is that they certainly should not just go and add videos to Flickr. Now Yahoo is running the risk of doing nothing else but ruining a good thing.
This also begs the question: whatever happened to simplicity? Apple has mastered it. Google's search page is another wonderful example. I don't want to waste time digging for content. Why does Yahoo continue to make it so difficult for users to enjoy themselves? It is like the corporate big wigs have lost touch with reality.
Flickr should strive to be the only place to go for photos. Period. Not for photos, videos, weather reports, horoscopes, baby name generator, ad nauseum... There is no need to be a jack of all trades but a master of none. Just do one thing, do it well, and do it until you are the best. Everthing else will fall into place.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Hello, I'm ambivalent about the whole video thing, so long as it's implemented correctly, which eventually it may be, in theory.
I did want to just say, though, that the one thing about this that irritated me the most was a single line in the video FAQ, which I was going to complain about here, but see that you've already corrected yourselves, so thank you. (The line is "We’ve seen that people on slower connections or a crusty old computer may experience difficulty playing video online. You might like to consider an upgrade!", In the original version which bothered me, that last sentence had previously been "Just go to Best Buy, Dude.")
So, now that that's cleared up, I'm still somewhat confused by the fact that my 6-year-old computer plays youtube videos perfectly, but not flickr videos. I know it's all about compression and formatting, yaddayadda, but the whole "Upgrade" solution seems a little odd to me, since my current configuration permits playing video from other sites just fine, but something about flickr's videos are using more bandwidth than it seems they should be. Their size and resolution don't seem to be any bigger or better, but even if I let a video fully load before playing, it still never runs smoothly.
I have not read all 4,766 replies to this thread, so my apologies if this matter was addressed previously.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Coincidence?
www.dunkindonuts.com/aboutus/press/PressRelease.aspx?view...
Posted 50 months ago.
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FedUpToo Total coincidence. Or Flickr would have met at Dunkin Donuts instead of Bob's Donuts, right?
Posted 50 months ago.
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zyrcster- Wrong. That would of been way too obvious. Besides, Bob's isn't a national chain where the promo could be celebrated by all. Correct though, nobody at Yahoo or Flickr is really that smart anyway. Which is why MS will be here soon to change this never ending game to their rules. Besides, I reserve my right to see conspiracy in anything and everything that can be connected, without getting pie in the face. Doughnuts are actually fairly low on my list of important topics to be discussed, when the time comes soon. Until then, did anybody notice the length of video coincides to that of a TV commercial? I think you people are supposed to be selling cars here or something. Better get to work, this place isn't going to monetize itself. You might even get a chance to make Yang a little bit richer when he sells all of you soon.
Posted 50 months ago.
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[I don't work here.]
Uh oh. They found me out!
Posted 50 months ago.
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what are you doing here? did you tell them about the little movie in the stream of the father of the no-video movement?
Posted 50 months ago.
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I prefer cinnamon coffee rolls...forget the video issue, say NO to donuts!
Posted 50 months ago.
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tv commercials are 30 seconds. Scratch one conspiracy theory.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Jawohl. Nobody here's gettin monetized under your watch.
Still...
Nothing's worse than having an itch you can never scratch.
It's like forever searching for something you can never find.
Posted 50 months ago.
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you almost scratched that Godwin's Law itch.
but you failed to commit.
[staff: if anyone wants to use this for wallpaper or christmas cards or something, I can give you the full size image links. Of course since you're staff, you can probably just go get it yourself. fine by me.]
Posted 50 months ago.
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The Searcher edited this topic 50 months ago.
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"Of course since you're staff..."
...or a Sykes Agent.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Since this thread seems to have died down, I'd just like to point out that silence is not equivalent to acceptance. Video has not grown on me nor has my opinion changed as to whether it belongs here; if anything I'm more annoyed by it now than I was when it was launched.
The only positive thing I can say at this point is that few to none of the parts of the site that I frequent have videos present as of yet - I can hope that this will remain a tiny niche activity here that I can easily ignore. But even so, I've still seen enough to be annoying - even if there's only a handful of them, every time I see one of those white triangles I'm reminded that that's valuable screen real estate that could instead be used for an actual photo (or thumbnail, anyway).
I also find the continued rationalizations being offered to be annoying, to say the least. "Images of real life" excludes video by definition, to say nothing of the vast pools of photos which are anything but realistic (last I checked, real life isn't "black and white"). The continued attempts to portray photos and videos as somehow equivalent or even similar are case studies in tortured logic.
In short, I'm still disappointed in this site and the direction it's moving in; I've seen nothing since the release of this wasteful feature that's altered my perception.
Posted 50 months ago.
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@EJP Photo, I don't like the video thing either, but it's a bit strong to state that I am disappointed in this site. There are many very good things about Flickr!
Since video is probably not going away, I just hope three things:
- that adding video doesnt lessen the efforts of the staff to make this a better photo sharing site (I still have some wishes, and I am sure that is true for others as well)
- that adding video does not slow the site down, or make it less reliable (no more Flickr Hiccups!)
- that it will be possible to personalize Flickr in such a way that it becomes a video-free site for anyone who wants that.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Actually the "real life" rationalization was to separate photos from art, not marry photos and video. And the concept isn't that a photo has to look like "real life" but that it, in the nature that Flickr wants photos to be, depicting something from real life in the image. Besides, colorblind people see the world in black and white, so that's real enough for them.
It is a logic that works for them in most cases. A time-lapse video of a sunset is a depiction of something actually occurring. A time-lapse video of action figures cavorting on a table, isn't actually occurring, thus is considered "animation". For purposes of the narrow categories that they offer, it works.
Posted 50 months ago.
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can i just mention I really reeeeally reeeeeeeeeally love video on flickr. yayyyyyyyyy!
Posted 50 months ago.
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[edit] nevermind -- not a problem.
Posted 50 months ago.
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zyrcster edited this topic 50 months ago.
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well, all I've got to add to this topic is that I don't give a rat's ass if they have video or not, so long as they provide a means for me to filter it out of searches.
which they appear to have done.
And by all that is holy in this world, please allow me an option to exclude video from "Most Interesting" because, speaking entirely for myself, video is by definition, NOT interesting.
other than that, I hate to see Flickr dilute their energies but it's life and life goes on. I'll live with it.
SB
Posted 50 months ago.
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To my surprise... I'm leaning towards Yay
I had big concerns when rumours about video came up, but there it is, just as I hoped, the "long photo". Très cool. (Yes, please, don't ever change the 90 second limit). And from what I've seen so far, people here are using it for good.
Or... actually... because the best thing about flickr still applies: I don't know whether it is annoying, because I just stay away from the areas where I can expect to find annoyance. Works for flower macros, will work for shaky pans over vacation resorts animated flower macros (I had a look, lots of them already;). Simple as that. (Mind you, I don't really care if an image moves or not, as long as it appeals to me)
What I don't like, though, is the clumsy terminology of "photos and videos" vs. "items" vs. "bits" vs. "things"... imho, that needs to be sorted out
Posted 50 months ago.
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.Purf edited this topic 50 months ago.
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And by all that is holy in this world, please allow me an option to exclude video from "Most Interesting" because, speaking entirely for myself, video is by definition, NOT interesting.
But "most interesting" has *never* been about what you find interesting - it's about what Flickr as a whole finds interesting. That may be very much at odds with your own personal views.
Posted 50 months ago.
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it actually would surprise me if flickr didn't give an extra little bump to videos in the interestingness algorithm. gotta get back the return on video investment...
ouch, I must've woken up on the cynical side of the bed this morning. ;-)
Posted 50 months ago.
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This may or may not be a poignant moment in the conversation for the following news, but we've decided that video will be making an appearance in Explore.
It's unlikely that you'll see them tomorrow, but at some point in the not too distant future, you'll see video alongside photos.
[edit to --> too]
Posted 50 months ago.
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heather (staff) edited this topic 50 months ago.
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Thank you for adding video. I think it's a welcome addition - nice to have a place that's not all snarky & elitist (like youtube!) for people who want to share short videos.
Thanks!
Posted 50 months ago.
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Thankfully, I never look at Explore. But boy, that's sure gonna piss off a lot of people.
Posted 50 months ago.
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But I thought those people were already pissed off.
Posted 50 months ago.
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So what is a video but a photo of the first frame? Turn off autoplay. And we needed almost 5000 posts to figure that out?
Posted 50 months ago.
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I think they've forgotten they're pissed off because they're not seeing video in Explore. But when the do, the rage will fly.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Thanks for the heads up, Heather. I'll buy you a drink next week -- I think you'll need one :)
Posted 50 months ago.
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what's explore?
Posted 50 months ago.
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dbthayer, are you a prophet? :)
Posted 50 months ago.
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Nooooooooo!
Posted 50 months ago.
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Gayla J.:
no, I'm clueless! oops, didn't even know that it wasn't in explore already.
just figured they'd give video more weight than photos, to hype it a bit.
Posted 50 months ago.
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nice! I never go to explore cause it is usually a lot of the same old same old... Now I have a reason to check it out!
Posted 50 months ago.
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My extremely biased opinion:
"Hold your clicks a moment please...
Flickr has the hiccups. We're looking into the problem right now."
(5 minutes ago)
Fix this before messing around with video! There are enough possible improvements in the photo area that will make the existing pro and free members very happy!
Make functional improvements (I can name a few if you want) to the photo area, make the site more responsive, prevent that !"#$% error message from coming up, and so on .... Flickr once had the mission to be the *BEST* photo sharing site in the world ... well, don't let that slip please, because video is more attractive commercially!
To make things clear: I don't have any objections against video as a medium, but I would highly prefer if they were hosted on a different site, with separate support staff.
Posted 50 months ago.
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Johan- edited this topic 50 months ago.
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There were NEVER hiccups before video launched.
I have never seen Flickr's hiccups before.
Oceania is at war with Eurasia, Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia
Posted 50 months ago.
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Don't underestimate yourself. Your feelings may be generated by what you believe is "art". Art can be inspired by pure thought or what you see around around you. Not everyone has the dexterity to recreate exactly what they see or is present in front of them but their creation has no less merit. I find myself inspired by both the Art(sic) and Photography on flickr. Of course I often take the inspiration in a personal direction but seeing it gives me some idea of what is possible.
greynotgrey 
Penny T 
m1dlg 
<-- AAAAAh! just realized it was a donut.
ClintRiter 
what are you doing here? did you tell them about the little movie in the stream of the father of the no-video movement?
Thankfully, I never look at Explore. But boy, that's sure gonna piss off a lot of people.
I think they've forgotten they're pissed off because they're not seeing video in Explore. But when the do, the rage will fly.
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