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I second dhania - what take-down requests??
Edit: Bugger - spent too long composing! I note, however, that none of those examples mention Flickr...
And yeah, the "trusted user" bit won't fly - grudges are rife on Flickr, as on most websites - look at some of the vitriol in this particular thread, then imagine one of the users being asked to evaluate the images of someone by whom he's just been abused...
Posted 60 months ago.
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Dr. Keats Yet.
And I would be an angel of calm and reasonableness, as always.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Ian - yeah, but that's what I meant: if Flickr HAD received several of those missives, it'd pretty much explain why they jumped in so quickly, ostensibly without clarifying the situation and the possible ramifications...
Or trying to beat the bullet, perhaps?
Posted 60 months ago.
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why the staff not close this thread i not understan ?
the facts is:
1.the old flickr we all love is history after this
2.many peoples begin to think is this the right place to store my photos in the future ,they are not happy to see new "genius fectures"
3.if flickr pull back the "trust" is loose,allways in peoples mind whats was going on
4. more and more themes in this thread has nothing to do with the main theme
5.all things peoples have to say are say
or ist it interessing to read the same "sound" after a short time
6. i stay on flickr in the future but not with the same blues ;)
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Walwyn
[...] as soon as the German government started sending out these take-down requests
Do you have a reference for this? There's has been no evidence whatsoever that the German government did anything like that.
From what we really know so far, we can surely assume that the German government does not even care for what's Flickr doing in this regard.
@iansand
If I was in their [Flickr] position I would have shut Germany down completely until the mob came up with their own solution.
No offense intended, iansand, but from what you said it's quite good for Flickr that it's not you in charge for business decisions. :-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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>another example: it is illegal in the US to butcher horses for human consumption.
What? Is that for real? Oh wow, that´s funny. Is that a leftover from a war law, or something? Cause you know, horse meat is very tasty.
(Btw.: Many may not know this, but it was only some years before that eating dogs in Germany became illegal. Before that it was technically possible to butcher and eat dogs - even though no one actually did it. It was a leftover law from the time after the WW2, where people had to eat what ever they could find to survive.)
Posted 60 months ago.
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And I would be an angel of calm and reasonableness, as always.
Ah, those cultural differences about what is acceptable again...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@tillwe: Flickr needs more competition. The maps feature is crap outside of the U.S., no neat UI-features (look at the new apple.com), bad translation (the german version is utterly devastating), ... They have the biggest resources in the background, there is no real Google counterpart at the moment and they have enough manpower in the background. Competition is always good to give them motiviation to move on.
Posted 60 months ago.
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so, what changed the last days?
flickr didn't mention the problem itself. A paragraph or something would have helped a lot to understand flickrs problems. But: "Please wait" and "working on it" doesn't help alot.
And time goes by... and? nothing changed yet. No communication. But a horrible support (just to mention nico zorn)
Posted 60 months ago.
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iloveyukon It could be because flickr do not believe in censorship.
Posted 60 months ago.
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iansand edited this topic 60 months ago.
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@Triotex: let's put it that way: if one of their competitioners offers a functionality that allows me to integrate my flickr contact network into the (whatever) contact network, I'd switch. But I'm not sure that this is a feature that grows out of competition.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Does the Flickr-API offer such a method? If yes, build a cool Web 2.0 mashup :P
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Triotex: I'm not that intimate with the Flickr-API (and not really a programmer, myself), but I guess it would be doable. The only probleme ist that the Flickr-API is usable only for non-commercial applications ...
Edit: see here (emphasize mine): Don’t use Flickr for commercial purposes. Flickr is for personal use only. If we find you selling products, services, or yourself through your photostream, we will terminate your account. Any other commercial use of Flickr, Flickr technologies (including APIs, FlickrMail, etc), or Flickr accounts must be approved by Flickr. For more information on leveraging Flickr APIs, please see our Services page. If you have other open questions about commercial usage of Flickr, please feel free to contact us.
Posted 60 months ago.
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tillwe edited this topic 60 months ago.
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Hmmm, we need a XSNMP - Cross Social Network Messaging Protocol :) See who is online, the latest updates on your contacts photos, .... *g*
Posted 60 months ago.
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Oooo... inter-site contact networks. That'd be sweet.
There you go, Stewart. You want to win back folks who have left, and win new converts, bring on these cool new features, throw open the doors, and let everyone--with every search--see how much superior your site really is.
Keep a fire lit under flickr and Yahoo's ass; get that centipede to step quick.
Posted 60 months ago.
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NorgeFan you said A paragraph or something would have helped a lot to understand flickrs problems.
Open your eyes and see:
www.flickr.com/help/forum/42597/page41/#reply239060
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Triotex, Jaboney: that's exactly what I was trying to push with my TP article ;-)
BTW: the API is buried a bit, but the sitemap links to it. Here is the API documentation, if anyone want's to try to implement the proposed XSNMP for connecting to the exiles.
Posted 60 months ago.
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nelma.f. As in his other post Stewart said absolutely nothing substantially. Hi statement was blank. That's what the most disturbing in this issue. flickr staff gave no exact reason whatsoerver for their actions.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@tillwe: To do so you would at least need to have sort of an "intermediate common format" for contacts as well as documents in order to actually transfer something meaningful. I will have a look at the Java implementations nevertheless, for the sake of curiosity. Assuming having two "peers", defined APIs and a clear idea what to do, connecting them by then shouldn't be too much of a problem (a bunch of work aside especially in terms of usability as I am not a Java GUI designer / developer but mainly a "communication" / middleware kind of guy...).
Posted 60 months ago.
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@tillwe: I have to start a small project in summer to connect Szene1.at, which is the "Austrian MySpace" with Flickr. Szene1 photo albums are really annoying. Or a iPhone-Flickr application :D
Posted 60 months ago.
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"Flickr loves you" - please remove this, because you don't.
Posted 60 months ago.
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what is the deal. obviously flickr is based on the participation of its users. in fact, the community using flickr is worth millions of dollars. why are we treated like shit? like we cannot decide what we want to see? and just saying "its not as easy as it looks from the outside" isnt enough. flickr, you owe your users big time. instead, users are asked to renew their pro membership, in order to avoid people being consequent and leaving flickr as this scandalous discusssion gets worse and your lack of interest in your users' needs becomes more obvious every day.
Posted 60 months ago.
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The TelePolis article posted earlier, here it is as english translation:
click
Posted 60 months ago.
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I spend a lot of time listening to audio books, informative podcasts, ect.... Interesting theory just came up on one that's relevant here: Attachment theory.
What matters is the openness, appropriateness, reliability, responsiveness, and two-way nature of the communication environment. The sending and and receiving of signals, not only between the community and its leaders, but among members of the community. It's the connection of individuals to the conversation that is the key. If people receive a consistent and reliable response from others, they get comfortable and come to believe that they have been empowered. If communication is inconsistent, or unresponsive, they begin to feel manipulated and hostile.
Now, according to his bio, Stewart studied cognitive science, so he knows all of this already (perhaps a refresher is due?), but how about the rest of you: does this sound like an adequate outline of the optimal operating environment, and it's recent collapse?
* Oh, I cribbed this from a new book by Al Gore (remember the guy who claimed to invent the internet?): The Assault on Reason.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@kawazu: for a start, it could be an application that get's the contact network or flickr user A and the contact network of ipernity user A' (who is the same person as flickr user A) and put both contacts newest pictures on one page. But I guess the real problem is not the technical side (I don't know about ipernity's API, but if they have one, that should be doable), but the social/legal side: as far as I understand the Flickr API TOS, something like this could be a border case for their API licence.
Posted 60 months ago.
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on the German help forum a staff member presents a translation from Mr. Butterfield's last statement, starting with:
... Ein kurzes Update vom Flickrteam in London ...
Why London?
It has been my impression for quite a while that Yahoo Deutschland is not involved ....
www.flickr.com/help/forum/42662/page2/#reply239078
Posted 60 months ago.
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@widderson: could also be a sign that the local staff has some problems grasping Flickr.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@tillwe: I am not sure whether one could "cover" this with "personal use". Given it is a software you run and make use of on your home PC (and possibly have to accept a license that states, asides other things, that the only thing allowed is non-commercial use) as well as you make sure the software itself is being published using an appropriate license (open source, as non-commercial, community-backed project), I think it "could" be pretty safe... IANAL, however...
Posted 60 months ago.
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after writing a couple of posts on the FILTER thread, i was kindly asked by Stewart to shut-up.
which i will do.
i think he's a bit upset that i mentioned this other censor-free flickr-clone site where i'm migrating some of my photos...
so long, have fun in the forums.
Posted 60 months ago.
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loupiote (Old Skool) edited this topic 60 months ago.
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well now we know what keeps him so busy, it is all your fault loupiote ;))
Posted 60 months ago.
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Steward
Why we shouldn't scream loud and often? We have nothing else left .... our protest can not be visible, as you well know.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Censorship should not be a factor on Flickr, for German users, OR FOR USERS N ANY OTHER COUNTRY.
If Germany was on the list, I'm wondering...WHO WILL BE NEXT??
This was a bad move. The internet has always been a free space, to see censorship on a site I love is truly sad.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@MizzChievouz: Indeed. But corporations like Yahoo! or Google (as I suppose not the Flickr Staff itself) seem not to have a problem with censorship if that is helpful to get the business goin'. At this point, indeed it's not about German users being censored but about supporting and accepting censorship in general... Looking at how most of the search engine providers act in China for the sake of profit on the Chinese market speaks for itself here, I think... Basically, to me this is one of the most important questions (which also has been controversely discussed around here): What should a company be allowed to do in order to maximize its profits? Can it cross all civil or even human rights just because of that? I don't think so...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Stewart: Where are your eggs?
Posted 60 months ago.
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Being censored by the Chinese government could be seen as a badge of honour. Doing the job for the censors is shameful
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Walljet: I think you mean:
@Stewart: Where are your balls?
Little translation error there... :-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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Let's talk about nuts ....
Posted 60 months ago.
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thank you for not coming to our homes with pitchforks (yet) - we appreciate that as well
Don't forget the torches and ropes.
I have never ever read such a stupid statement, from a community manager. Leaves me (nearly) speechless.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Will the same happen to MySpace? According to Spiegel Mr. Murdoch wants to sell it to Yahoo...
www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,489644,00.html
Posted 60 months ago.
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kawazu "(as I suppose not the Flickr Staff itself)"
In the Filters thread George [Flickr staff] says:
"Despite the fact that many people are upset with the way that filtering has been modified for some locales members, this is not a bug. It was implemented as intended, and working as intended."
So they knew what was going to happen and thought it was OK. For me that is one of the things that strikes me most. They [Flickr staff, not Yahoo] actually thought they could get away with it.
Posted 60 months ago.
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 derlinzer - why?
Posted 60 months ago.
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loupiote: ...after writing a couple of posts on the FILTER thread, i was kindly asked by Stewart to shut-up.
We told you, it's the icon... ;)
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Robert_K: Yeah, I read about that... That's what makes me a little angry about, later on (reading all the Staff posts in this thread), seeing this issue treated like a "bug that needs time to be resolved".
Anyhow: I still am convinced Flickr folks didn't put these filters in place completely voluntarily and by free choice. I am pretty sure to know who's to blame for that...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@ Dominik Schwind: Quite. I don't really see why people are getting upset about the 'pitchforks' remark.
Effectively asking loupiote to shut up, on the other hand, was particularly ill-judged.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Effectively asking loupiote to shut up, on the other hand, was particularly ill-judged.
But funny.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Walwyn: You've got some strange humor then.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@MikeSchneider: Thnak you (with a big smile) for the translation ;-)
>@Walljet: I think you mean:
>@Stewart: Where are your balls?
>Little translation error there... :-)
But i mine eggs. Sure. He lost his balls 48 hours ago.
Walljet.
Posted 60 months ago.
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how long since steward will tell us the solution? (when are the 30 hours over) cant wait to upload new pics, or move over to ipernity.com
Posted 60 months ago.
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Maybe since Flickr has no means to enforce the difference between "restricted" vs. "moderate" content other than reviewing every image to see if it is correctly categorized, it choose to block them rather than try to find staff enough to review every image ever uploaded. Given the sheer number of images
This is a good observation, except... flickr don't have any guidlines for what is moderate and what is restricted (outside of a very vague and meaningless what you would show mom)
As had been constantly repeated anything that is illegal in Germany without age verification is almost always going to be EXTREME by US standards.... what you need an age verification system for in Germany is real hard core porn... and to get into the upper class of German "porn" then this is probably photographing acts that are actually illegal in many US states in themselves, let alone posting a photo of it...
Anyway the fundamental problem is lack of guidlines in terms of "real" guidelines... so how can flickr even hope that images are correctly flagged unless they provide some mechanism...AND guidlines.
Basically moderate and restricted mean nothing... because they have no definition that applies...
I feel the fundamental problem with Y!ickr is it doesn't want to pin these down and it certainly doesn't want to accomodate EVERY possible country... or make exceptions for ONE country.
This is understandable... BUT... its unavoidable...
The basis of the problem is if images are not given guidlines then there is no real way to even attempt to enforce this...
The movie industry has a system... each country sets guidlines and mostly they certificates are different according to location... films still get distributed, they just have different ratings...
At its simplest this is all flickr need do.... give an age verification system and then according to that apply which category stuff falls into...... while defining what moderate and restricted mean... and at this point they might include risque or similar inbetween for more granularity...
As part of the age verification then country of residence is taken... and then this is applied according to local law...
Is it perfect? probably not but it is at least showing that flickr take some efforts and that these efforts in themselves will be considered ... the present situation is basically saying it won't make any effort ... except blanket censorship on a country..
In the end if we are generous flickr has a non-censorship policy... great... I Love this.... well done... UNFORTUNATELY its unworkable globally... so the next best thing is how to provide legal solutions without censorship...
I don't think anyone on these threads is suggesting that Germans demand to have animal snuff sex wearing gestapo uniforms available to 12yr olds.... but this is the way flickr seem to be acting...
In reality I sympathise with flickr staff.... This isn't Nuremberg and "just doing my job" is adequate...
I'd love to give y'all a parallel analogy from my real life... and previous employer BUT I can't because I have a non-disclosure agreement...
Putting flickr staff as piggy in the middle isn't really fair on them... however we can at least keep telling their bosses that silence isn't cool and "gagging" the support team isn't cool...
Posted 60 months ago.
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As a very disappointed old school member, I've been boycotting flickr (not uploading new pics) for a while now, mainly because of the self-censorship they are trying to impose.
I'm holding a protest poll here, if you are interested:
www.pollsb.com/polls/poll/431/are-you-already-boycotting-...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@ .schtieF
About 3 hrs to go...
[edited for mathematical stupidity]
Posted 60 months ago.
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Robert K - So they knew what was going to happen and thought it was OK. For me that is one of the things that strikes me most. They [Flickr staff, not Yahoo] actually thought they could get away with it.
Hmm, George, right after the words you quoted, said:
As we've said elsewhere, that intention is being reviewed at the moment, and we will let you all know what happens as soon as we do.
We've heard you loud and clear here at Flickr.
I don't know whether this is a breach of contract or not, so I'm sorry, but you'll have to sit tight for an answer on that.
[Emphasis of the original posters, underlining is mine]
For me George's last sentence is interesting. It confirms that persistent smell of Non-Disclosure Agreements I've been smelling for seven days or so.
In my view, more than "they knew and thought it was OK" or "they knew and didn't anything to prevent it" or "they knew and didn't say a word", I think it's fair to say, instead, that "they knew and couldn't do otherwise at that time". I'm imagining a scenario where Yahoo's Men In Black (or Yahoo's Agents Smith for you Matrix fans) did not give any choice to the flickr staff:
Yahoo: Do this and that, and thou shalt not disclose (that is, shut up), OK?
flickr staff: But it's not...
Yahoo: (Opens the suitcase, takes out contract) You signed here, remember?
flickr staff: Yes, but...
Yahoo: (A faint smirk) You didn't read the small print, did you?
flickr staff: – – –
Yahoo: Sorry, you can't talk about this. But I'm sure you can be friendly, you can do that.
flickr staff: (Weakly) You don't have the faintest idea of the outcry this is going to create...
Yahoo: We'll see. Now, the meeting's off, we have business to do and a CEO to sack... erm... reposition. See ya.
flick staff: (Gulps)
Mind you, I'm not trying to defend the flickr staff at all costs, I'm just trying to understand the reasons of all this miscommunication. I happened to sign a NDA once. It's a "heavy" atmosphere when all you can say is "I can't tell you". And we're all experiencing that atmosphere right now.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@ loupiote (Old Skool)
Spin-doctor. If you said that he 'thought it might be a good idea to chill and give others a chance", it wouldn't have had nearly the same ring to it, huh?
Or if you said that you had "monopolised the thread and had been asked by more than one staffer to stop", that would not sound nearly as innocent as "after writing a couple of posts on the filter thread", would it?
The situation is inflamed enough as it is. That's just spin-doctoring in your own interests.
For the record,
1. I think the outcome of the actions of the flickr staff are reprehensible and should be categorised as censorship.
2. I have not been affected, but agree completely with the protest.
3. I am looking at alternatives. As someone said tho, "there's flickr, and there are others."
My 50cents worth...
[edit punctuation]
Posted 60 months ago.
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Riccardo Mori
Nice way of telling the story. :)
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Rick: sounds plausibel (but I hope not true).
@kawazu & to whom it may concern: in the comments to my TP-article there was a hint about an potentially interesting project, a civil society web 2.0 (see taz (de), and www.24weeks.com/ & wiki.espians.com/Main_Page ).
Posted 60 months ago.
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@Rick:
In my view, more than "they knew and thought it was OK" or "they knew and didn't anything to prevent it" or "they knew and didn't say a word", I think it's fair to say, instead, that "they knew and couldn't do otherwise at that time".
Yes. That's possibly the way it went. And that's why, aside my frustration about the censorship comin' to Flickr in first place, and aside my anger about the disastrous communication style of Flickr Staff around here, I think neither "Flickr bashing" nor "running away immediately" are the way to go.
Flickr bashing at this time will hurt the wrong people, as for Flicrk Staff possibly couldn't have done any other way this very situation.
Running away will do right the same (i.o.w. both hurt the _visionaires_ in Flickr Staff who wanted to build a great, comfortable environment, as well as those users who want to stay around for right the same reason but by now have to see the community's getting thinner and thinner, having a lot of "familiar" people leaving elsewhere and being replaced by [rant] a bunch of folks just wanting a picture sharing platform, mindlessly dumping meaningless shots here and not at all becoming part of communication or community itself [/rant]).
So... I think there's a lot of need for communication on some very specific questions, given this community is about to survive this issue and some people will remain having or probably gaining trust again in Flickr. By now, I guess all we can do is to (a) indeed voice our opinions in order to make everyone know we're not intended to shut up and forget about it, but also (b) let a reasonable amount of time pass for Flickr'rs to make their promises come true. Status Quo hasn't really changed ever since last week, but a deadline has been given, and we should wait for this time to pass IMHO ...
Posted 60 months ago.
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 kawazu [waiting, wanting to stay, trying to trust] - 100% true. But it might be good to retain a certain level of awareness to let them know that we won't let them slip that one past us...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@tillwe: Thanks for the links; indeed this seems to be an interesting starting point for some of the ideas discussed earlier...
Posted 60 months ago.
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Riccardo,
you apparently have not been part of takeovers/company mergers so far.
Let's step back and have a look what has happened:
1) Flickr was a young dynamic company that has been diggin' for gold for some time prior to inventing Flickr. They were a happy bunch of people - their system was mildly successful, but the monetary success was still somewhat limited.
2) Then someday the phone rings. Stewart picks up the receiver, gasps briefly, then puts it down again and mumbles - "Yahoo! want's to buy us". The NEXT step is typically a NDA. You may say nothing whatsoever about this partnership/deal/discussions. [It might also be other way around: Flickr approached Yahoo! with a proposal. Then of course a NDA will also be put in place.)
3) Now the deal happens. Flickr is now officially owned by Yahoo! Most likely they implement a contract between Flickr, Inc., and Yahoo, Inc., clarifying all the issues, e.g. use of logos, use of trademarks, compensation, lock-up period for stock payments, etc etc. Of course, one paragraph also contains a NDA. As Flickr is now owned by Yahoo!, this NDA will be much tighter than the previous one.
In essence, they (Flickr staff) are Yahoo! by now, even if they may carry a contract saying Flickr, Inc. They can't just say what they want. It's really as if you are talking to a Yahoo! employee. (Except that the tonality is a bit more, er, casual.) I would not be surprised if they could get fired for breaking the NDA.
I agree with your little scene, but I guess it was very early in this disaster where it might have happened as you describe. From then on, it was just: "We won't tell you anything."
Posted 60 months ago.
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kawazu – I read your reply and I agree with you.
Posted 60 months ago.
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@zettpress: I guess this is why Rick used the Agent Smith character -- big corporations are viral, aren't they.
Posted 60 months ago.
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;@Dominik Schwind: Indeed. And I am pretty sure what is likely to happen, given there will be a public Flickr Staff announcement more or less soon which doesn't at least slightly meet the expectations of these olks reading (and posting to) threads like this...
Reading through the latest posts, I saw this discussion about "sides", the "Flickr Staff's side" and the "community side". For the sake of Flickr, both "sides" should realize that it's not about "Flickr vs. community" what matters but rather (hopefully) "Flickr + its community vs. Yahoo! business" (if it's not this way anymore, perhaps moving out indeed is the ultima ratio...).
Maybe, however, this also should end up in a different way of protest not (like the "against censorship" pics which mostly were rather good) mainly aiming at Flickr yet nonetheless being rather strong and expressive...
Posted 60 months ago.
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A very interesting article (hope I am not posting a link that's already been here):
www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,489273,00.html
Posted 60 months ago.
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zettpress – Thanks for your detailed reply. I was missing some pieces here and there. The main purpose of my little invented scene was obviously to lighten up the atmosphere a bit. If we were on real-world, physical barricades, I would pass and distribute some beer or comfort food :)
Keep the debate on, I have to go offline for a while.
Rick
Posted 60 months ago.
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Yes, it was posted at least 4/5 times ... but "Repetita iuvant"
edited type mistake
Posted 60 months ago.
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sorry but i can´t see all of @loupiate, need i glasses?
no?
I´m fifty years old, and I think nobody has to give me rules, what i am allowed see.!
Please change my search filter like i buyed with the pro-account.
Thanks! eagle1effi
PS. German law negates censorship, since 1950!
www.flickr.com/photos/eagle1effi/567807684/
For help I informed the local network TV SWR Stuttgart.
censorship is an officialis delictum , a case fo lawyer of govenmet
Yes.
Posted 60 months ago.
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www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/91468
Again, in German, the title translates into:
"Flickr blocks exceed the requirements of German laws."
Even according to the experts of the German website, www.jugendschutz.net, Flickr blocks by far exceeds legal requirements in Germany.
Mind you this is the opinion of the people who are doing everything to protect German minors from inappropriate content.
It is safe to assume that they know exactly what they are talking about and that they have an in depth knowledge of applicable German law.
Posted 60 months ago.
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As an addition to swisskultbear's post: "Seiner Auskunft nach geht die Lösung "über die gesetzliche Verpflichtung hinaus", weil ein Dienst wie Flickr rechtlich als Host-Provider zu behandeln sei, der nur auf Hinweis zur Entfernung von illegalen Inhalten verpflichtet ist." --> Flickr is a host provider and has to remove content if they get in knowledge of a violation.
So content filters are unnecessary and not required!
Posted 60 months ago.
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I'm not about to get my knickers in a twist over vague guidelines as pretty much anything -- if excellent or otherwise interesting -- is welcome (save porn). But trying to articulate global standards, if that's what it's going to take to satisfy all the 'net nannies and weak-kneed suits, is bound to be either impossible, or infuriating.
I have a possible solution, but I'm not a programmer, and have no idea whether or not this is feasible, so somebody please tell me. (I'm also not sure how desirable this is, as I haven't thought it all the way through.)
Would it be possible to bring in community-specific rating filters: something like "StumbleUpon"?
By that I mean a user could voluntarily join a group, say "utata" (one of my favorites) and be steered towards or away from content based on the recommendations/ratings of members of that group. (yeah yeah, you can always check their favorites, but this could be more universal and introduce a broader range of functions.)
Alternatively, users from Singapore could CHOOSE to join the "Singapore-nanny-state" filter group, and thereby voluntarily ensure that they are in compliance with the rules of their state government.
Group membership--or yahoo singapore--would be responsible for establishing standards, but beyond a very crude initial filter (safe, moderate, my-poor-virgin-eyes!), fine tuning would be a function of members' ratings.
If you don't like filters at all, I suppose you'll hate the idea. But there it is, off the top of my head.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Swisskiltbear, nice find. I guess the sweating gets heavier in Munich, Sunnyvale, and San Francisco. LOL. All this is just great. A bit like watching "Titanic". ;-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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A new Heise report (in German only), stating that Jugendschutz officials (I'm not sure how they are related to the government agency) say that they didn't talk to Yahoo, and that the filtering is way more than legally necessary.
(Edit: swisskiltbear was faster)
(Edit 2: but something important from www.jugendschutz.net/jugendschutz_net/index.html: Jugendschutz im Internet
jugendschutz.net wurde 1997 von den Jugendministern aller Bundesländer gegründet, um jugendschutzrelevante Angebote im Internet (so genannte Telemedien) zu überprüfen und auf die Einhaltung von Jugendschutzbestimmungen zu drängen. Ziel ist ein vergleichbarer Jugendschutz wie in traditionellen Medien.
Here they state their mission statement: jugendschutz.net is an institution that was founded by the state ministers for youth with the mission of monitoring Jugendschutz (protection of underages) in the internet. So it is in fact an official institution, giving a bit more weight to the Heise news.
Posted 60 months ago.
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tillwe edited this topic 60 months ago.
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@ swisskiltbear,
LOL
as far as I know "jugendschutz.net" are the very hardcore protectors of minors in the German media.
Now, so even they say, Yahoo is overreacting. This makes my day!
Posted 60 months ago.
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And we are still waiting for a response! A simple "oh thanks for the info" or "yes, we are changing the filter settings" would be enough for the next 2 hours :-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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would it be enough?
I guess the next post would then be an immediate ' changing the filter settings to what exactly???' and a few 'what about the...?!?!?!'
lets just give them a bit more time.
Posted 60 months ago.
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swisskiltbear The comment from Jugendschutz makes my day. That should teach all the naysayers, but most likely they will keep on insisting that German law is at fault here and we are barking at the wrong tree.
(edit: forgot "wrong")
Posted 60 months ago.
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helter-skelter edited this topic 60 months ago.
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lets just give them a bit more time.
---------------------------
"ironical on"
and how much time he give the flickr member before change to think
or too
do something
"ironical off"
;o)
Posted 60 months ago.
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And Now for Something Completely Different... :-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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After 43 pages the topic should be renamed to "How to burn millions of PR-value in one week." *g* Flickr says "we have to censor you" and the German Jugenschutz is looking on them a little bit confused and is wondering about the Yahoo Deutschland lawyers. Funny.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Triotex *lol* I love the proposal :-D Great titel .. you are a writer? ;)
Posted 60 months ago.
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Now I really wonder how Yahoo/Flickr will try to get themselves out of this situation...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@D.Schwind
maybe very silent at night in a dark small street
;o)
Posted 60 months ago.
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@dominik Ja, sie haben's total versemelt ;-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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Interesting is also the lack of information.. If you cannot talk about it then at least make more clear why you cannot.
Communication is key with any web2.0 application and some people still need to learn that.
Actually the lack of communication is for me far worse than any possible problem. I thought that's what you have community managers for? Right now I don't see that much good management of the issue.
Also regarding communication: Make clear before the move to a german version what it also involves. I had the same problem back then with NIPSA because I didn't even know that something like NIPSA could happen to me. It's not good if people are wondering why they either cannot see all the photos or why not everybody can see their photos. I mean - that's the key function here, isn't it?
And with the Jugendschutz comment the whole story becomes even more strange.. so flickr, please explain! (or do office hours in Second Life so we can discuss this with you - that would be a nice web2.0 move ;-)
Posted 60 months ago.
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Hmmm, or they are thinking about how to buy ipernity for the lowest possible price. So Yahoo Photos will become Flickr and Flickr is moving to Yahoo's ipernity *g*
Sorry for this ot-posting, but it's really boring for waiting for a 2 line answer from the staff. And learning UML instead of reading this thread is not my favorite alternative.
[edit] One possible reason for the outstanding answer: They sent their mail to terry.semel@yahoo-inc.com
Posted 60 months ago.
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Triotex edited this topic 60 months ago.
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After 43 pages the topic should be renamed to "How to burn millions of PR-value in one week. After 43 pages, I can't help thinking "They don't like it up 'em, Mr Mainwaring" is appropriate...
(Don't Panic!)
Posted 60 months ago.
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Interesting enough: They opened up a German office and implemented so called "German laws" by cutting down services - but they obviously didn't ask the guys who are the German experts for these laws: jugendschutz.net. I am wondering if the flickr staff talked to any kind of German officials before censoring pictures.
I will wait for the promised comment, it should be early morning in SF now.
Posted 60 months ago.
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 MrTopf - probably that NDA also states that they are not allowed to say that they have an NDA...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@helter-skelter and widderson
Yes, it completely makes my day, or even week, as far as this topic is concerned.
It's nice to have an official confirmation of what many of us have been saying from the start. Hopefully that will reduce the excessive amount "How do you know, are you lawyers?" and "Complain to the German government" trolling.
It appears we're not paranoid maniacs after all and that neither Y! nor Flickr deserved the benefit of doubt that some have asked us ad nauseam to give them.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Leute mal ganz ehrlich und logisch gedacht:
Um 100 % können sie gar nicht zurückrudern,weil wie wollen sie dann in Zukunft irgend etwas durchsetzen,wenn sie bei jedem größeren Protest,Sachen zurücknehmen würden.Sie würden ja die Kontrolle über die Firma vollkommen in fremde Hände legen.
Posted 60 months ago.
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would be a strange NDA..
Maybe the decision if staying with flickr or not should be really made more based on good explanations of the situation and not regarding the solution they (hopefully/eventually) find.
First NIPSA, now this, what might be next? (actually solving NIPSA and thus being able to show my photos resulted in this filtering mechanism now in question).
I also would like to get an explanation why this censorship was bound to a german language version..
Posted 60 months ago.
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iloveyukon: das geht aus Stewarts statements eh hervor. Für nen rollback müssten sie auch nicht groß coden, aber das sagte schon seine letzte message von wegen dass sie was schrauben was ein paar Leute etwas glücklicher macht. (wie gehabt: die User vor vollendete Tatsachen stellen und nix kommunizieren). I'm outta here.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Auch dieses Ich liebe flickr es ist mein kind glaube ich ihm nicht wirklich.bei diesen ganzen web2 und dem sozialen netzwerk getue geht es nur knallhart ums geldverdienen.
wenn es wenigstens so ehrlich wäre und zugeben würde
ja leute ich habe flickr an yahoo verkauft um ein schöneres leben zu finazieren,was ich ihm ja gönne
aber bitte es wäre wenigsten die wahrheit ;)
wenn ihn heute yahoo feuert nach und
er wird deswegen nicht am hungertuch nagen ;)
Posted 60 months ago.
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if all these things are not from the german government, with whom is the flickr management making trans-atlantic negotiations i wonder?
Posted 60 months ago.
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if all these things are not from the german government, with whom is the flickr management making trans-atlantic negotiations i wonder?
with yahoo shareholders ...
Posted 60 months ago.
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@siutung: Yahoo! Deutschland!?
Posted 60 months ago.
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"Flickr blocks exceed the requirements of German laws."
Yahooooooo! aka The Laughing Stock of the (German) Internet
Coming up next: What will Stewart B. say about this? Will he stay with Yahoo!? We'll be right back after the break.
Posted 60 months ago.
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isn't it just the old war which we have since the stone age between web1.0 and web2.0 departments/companies?
The former has the money, the latter the people.
What counts more?
Posted 60 months ago.
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Flickr is a host provider and has to remove content if they get in knowledge of a violation.
So content filters are unnecessary and not required!
And how do they do that, without getting a similar flood of complaints about censoring from other users?
Just for fun I switched on safe filtering and did a naughty words search. Hardcore wasn't hard to find.
Posted 60 months ago.
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Walwyn edited this topic 60 months ago.
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I have to confess, I cannot stop laughing ...
Posted 60 months ago.
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MrTopf The money, obviously.
Posted 60 months ago.
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