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@funkaoshi: I already am moving my photos to picasa, gladly go and view them. also, i know it's not flickr's fault about china, but it still doesn't mean it didn't fall apart, considering i'm in China right now and it greatly affects my ability to function on flickr. also, they did a much better job of blocking flickr than wikipedia. considering you can anonymouse your way to that, but not to see flickr images.... weird.... alittle too wierd....
@kabul: It's hard to "bear with you" when this is a blatant attack on the freedom of the internet. I'd rather use a less powerful, not as popular service that is free and doesn't even consider censoring than one that even dabbles in it ever so lightly for whatever reason.
I'm pretty sure most Germans, Singaporeans, Koreans, and Hong Kongeans would gladly try to tough through a little English. Considering they've been doing it for 3 years now.
While it may be impossilbe to stop flickr from censoring other countries, I can stop giving them money. =D have a nice day censr.
Posted 31 months ago.
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BlakeIsrael edited this topic 31 months ago.
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@mpd: it's maybe lame but it's funny ... and since we all wait here for an answer why not test our power in the mean time (and be sure that everybody agrees that this is an important issue)? It is boring just to wait ...
Posted 31 months ago.
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Ρanayotis edited this topic 31 months ago.
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@wooble: When talking about Web 2.0 issues we should decide to use Web 2.0 benchmarks. Of course it's also interresting that some more reliable websites like the German spiegel.de or focus.de report about this situation.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Don´t feed the troll...
Posted 31 months ago.
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@ kakul and other flickr staff
Just give us a reasonable explanation WHY this censorship was established in the first place and care about solutions afterwards! That would calm down most of the users immediatly, I guess.
But that saying nothing for oneandahalf day now is the worst you could possibly do.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Panayotis -- you should be able to share your photos with your girlfriend or any other contact using your friends and family and privacy settings. Those are not impacted by this situation. You can access these settings via "Your Account", Privacy and Permissions tab.
Posted 31 months ago.
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If a bunch of misspelled rants by anonymous users on Wikipedia are the Web2.0 standard of importance I think we're in trouble.
Posted 31 months ago.
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WhiskyPhreak In his 2nd post Stewart explained, that they are not able to share the context. Why not trust him and wait for the resolution?
The Searcher agree
Posted 31 months ago.
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it is as simple as this:
it is OUR choice, NOT yours flickr.
give us back the option. end of topic.
Posted 31 months ago.
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mpd -- please report your annoyance to the flickr staff -- they are causing this behaviour.
Posted 31 months ago.
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I am free to leave Flickr. I will enjoy this freedom now.
In German: Ich hau ab hier.
Posted 31 months ago.
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is flickr punishing members of the protest movement?
Have you looked at the Explore pages? They're full of protest posts -- including screenshots, which aren't supposed to be there at all. If you check one of the sites that will show you the entire Explore calendar for yesterday you'll find them there too, including (at least an hour ago) the #1 spot. So I'm guessing not.
Posted 31 months ago.
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OK, time to get constructiv...
ATTANTION FLICKR STAFF - PLEASE READ!!!
- Split up with Yahoo, i'm sure the community will help you as good as they can (i will for sure)
Posted 31 months ago.
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I want to give Flickr management the benefit of a doubt.
But what did they think would happen once Germany started getting censored? (And where are the Flickrites in Hong Kong? Hello? Democracy Movement??)
Flickr has been appallingly bad at communication. The roll out of the new filtering system should have been relatively easy and unemtional, but Flickr completely botched it, and ended up pissing off a lot of people who STILL don't understand the system. (I'd still like to get firmer guidelines than deciding what I'd show my mother. Kafka could have written this.)
There are countless people hopping mad at having their streams restricted for no apparent good reason... and having to wait weeks to get it resolved, if ever.
And now this. This is a clusterfuck.
Flickr management is clearly in this way over their heads.
I don't want to punish Flickr, but I'm kind of afraid to renew my pro account for fear of what's next.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Just some dust edited this topic 31 months ago.
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to Flickr staff,
why you just don't remove the filters ???
it's really boring, anyway !!! i see lots of them in the groups and i truly have no patience to see the photos ....
like it was before it was ok, i don't understand, see .....
luisa
Posted 31 months ago.
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luisa brehm edited this topic 31 months ago.
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sorry kakul to make you answer on this (I understand you are in pressure) ... it was just a different way to ask (again) why ... and stress that this is the question.
And the problem is not even to wait for it ... the problem is that people would like to know the truth ... and more the time passes the less probable this will be ... and so the less feasible for you to convince with your answer ... or maybe not (people will be easily convinced because they love flickr :-))
Posted 31 months ago.
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Lu: you are right, and there is also one of the staff comments, where they more or less explicitly did say that the protest image is in fact no photo and could be excluded from Explore, but they don't do this. Which strengthens the Scylla & Charybdis idea. Maybe it's a (forced) test for a general exclusion of non-safe pictures, done in one of the smaller markets to look if it generates protests or not, before they do it in the main market.
Posted 31 months ago.
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@SilentObserver
Hey, guys it's 3:45am in California, and Flickr team is still working on this. And I mean working!
I can't be that damn hard to remove three lines of code, can it?
if($userCountry=="DE" || $userCountry=="SG" || $userCountry=="HK" || $userCountry=="KR" || $userCountry=="CN") {
$safeSearchOffButtonDisabled = true;
}
Just delete it and you're done!
Maybe there are some more lines in order to delete the wohle filter "feature", but it's worth the time!
Posted 31 months ago.
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 R4mbo - now it's getting surreal. :)
Posted 31 months ago.
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please report your annoyance to the flickr staff -- they are causing this behaviour.
The Flickr staff are forcing people to spam groups? The staff have truly amazing powers.
This isn't a freedom of speech issue. Everyone in Germany is free to post their photos online. No one is compelling you to use Flickr. If it turns out they are being jerks and censoring photos because they are evil like that, then yeah, maybe you should jump ship.
Maybe it's a (forced) test for a general exclusion of non-safe pictures, done in one of the smaller markets to look if it generates protests or not, before they do it in the main market.
These conspiracy theories are awesome.
Posted 31 months ago.
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funkaoshi edited this topic 31 months ago.
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@SilentObserver
Technically the images are not photos and should not be there :)
If this is your only concern, I think it would take only a few hours to get enough people to make a picture with human letters which say "Think, flickr, think!"
Posted 31 months ago.
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@benrobertsabq
Question for German users, honestly: Would German users prefer to not have the German language option and go back to how things were before, without the blocking?
I saw the link, switched to german, saw that 'You' became 'Sie' and switched back. I don't need it.
Posted 31 months ago.
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 Kakul are you reading or at the filckr party at Paris? I guess so!
If safe filter is on I see the photo not! Even it is from a friend to me. Even my girlfriend is in the same private group and postet it there and even not to see in my contacts recent photos! So why You tell something diffrent! I thought you are all discussing seriously our problems!
You are kidding!
Ant dont talk about the situation - its a censorship - name it! Not situation that's like a cancer patient say the illness and not my cancer!
btw. I have to accounts one censored one free I know what I'm talking 'cause I can test it right here!
Posted 31 months ago.
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Querulant I mainly wanted to point out that it is absurd to not have the explanation ready when applying something like this. They are an organized company, or at least that is what you expect, certainly now they are part of yahoo.
What if (hypothetically) your internet provider would deny acces to the flickr site withou givin the explanation before or at the time this ban is forced upon you? Would be odd, no?
Posted 31 months ago.
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I can't follow the idea, that the policy has to be connected to the the languages offered as a user interface.
Well, on Google I can select Klingon.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Donald... (protesting flickr censorship!) edited this topic 31 months ago.
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and just a last comment from me:
The truth is simple ... you just say it (it takes a few minutes to write it) ... the fact that you cannot (and I trust you that it is not that you don't want) personally scares me ... and the only way to express my fear is attacking you ... until you point me to the correct target :-)
Posted 31 months ago.
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I agree with WhiskyPhreak.
Posted 31 months ago.
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What part of "We don't want an instant solutions, but we want to know WHY" does Flickr staff not understand?
anyone remember this movie line from Star Wars:
"communication breakdown can mean only one thing - invasion".
As I stated before: I'm 100% positive Flickr stuff signed a non disclosure agreement. They would like to answer this silly little question, but they just can't.
Question is: for what purpose.
Posted 31 months ago.
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@Kakul: What you say about the friend and family filters is WRONG! I can not see about ten of my friends and family pictures because I am living in the WRONG place according to Flickr (this place is Germany btw.)
Why don't you tell us WHY this censorship (because it is censorship and nothing else) was installed?
Do you think that silence will resolve the problem?
Posted 31 months ago.
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@msslovi0: So far I haven't bothered switching to flickr.de as in my opinion it sucks anyhow. Most of my contacts around here are from all over the world, I don't see why I should switch to a German localization just "because". This filtering thing makes it even less likely.
One more thing: Same as knowing that Google is doing censorship in China, which renders it unusable being a reliable search engine, I think that flickr this way has seriously damaged its "image" beyond repair. As soon as you provide a search facility of some sort, people rely upon it to actually return _all_ results. As soon as you get an idea that possibly there are results not displayed for political/technical/regional/whatever pointless reasons, you can't rely upon that search anymore - you simply can't be sure that this search facility is _not_ providing you with information manipulated by anyone in order to just make you see what you're supposed to see.
Posted 31 months ago.
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I'm just waiting for someone to call flickr a bunch of Nazis and call Stewart Hitler.
That way Godwin's Law can come to fruition and we can all consider the topic thoroughly discussed and just wait for flickr to explain the situation.
Do any of you honestly think that flickr wants it to be like this? Do any of you really think that flickr has CHOSEN to "censor" anyone? To what end? Why would they do it, why would they want to do that? They wouldn't.
Clearly there are other forces at play here and we owe it to flickr staff to trust that they are being honest when they tell us that they are doing everything they can to fix the problem, and that they do not want it this way, but have no choice.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Josh Sommers edited this topic 31 months ago.
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I guess one thing's for sure: Whatever the reason for this censorship may be, flickr needs to explain it (and their way of action) really damn good to restore the trust of us users. This breach of confidence will make all of us pretty suspicious and we'll think twice before renewing our accounts and using flickr the way we used to.
Which is quite a sad thing.
Posted 31 months ago.
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msslovi0 and @SilentObserver, dont worry about things not being photographs... sorted that last night...
THIS IS NOT A GRAPHIC, THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH, CHECK THE METADATA, EXIF SAYS SO... OR ARE WE TO DELETE EVERY PHOTOGRAPH ON FLICKR THAT INCLUDES A GRAPHIC
please feel free to download and post elsewhere, anywhere.....
freedom
Posted 31 months ago.
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uberschnapp edited this topic 31 months ago.
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licht_faenger - Please don't make this personal.
Everyone can publish photos at whatever safety level they think is appropriate. All the privacy settings that were available before the international release are still available to you now. So, you (or your friends) are also free to mark photos as safe and private, if you wish.
[we -> were]
Posted 31 months ago.
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George (staff) edited this topic 31 months ago.
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funkashoi: I understand that you're annoyed, but your explanation ("post it elsewhere") shows that you don't grasp the situation: at the moment, users in Germany, Hongkong etc. are not able to see photos anybody sets to moderate/restricted. So it's not that we can't post these photos anymore -- we just can't see them. What would you do if this happens in your country, with your local version of Flickr? Creating as much attention as possible about the issue, for sure -- and exactly that is "spamming" groups and explore with protest pictures. As far as we know (they don't say), nobody forced Yahoo/Flickr to implement that policy. So it's their fault, until they explain why they did it.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Pisco -- see somewhere on page 2 or 3 -- there it was called "fascism" (and I don't agree with that). ;-)
Posted 31 months ago.
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Patience is apparently a virtue (or so I've been told). Every complaint that could have been made has been made at this point - the staff has acknowledged it and stated repeatedly that they cannot comment yet.
At this point, you have 3 choices:
-Continue to bring up the same points that have been brought up in the last 12 pages over and over as if that's going to bring you the answer you want sooner.
-Delete your account and leave rather than just threatening to (again, as if that's somehow going to get you an answer faster).
-Wait a bit longer, see what reasons they had. At this point, what can it hurt?
They've said they're working on a solution. Ranting about individul staff members posting pics (they do get time off too, you know - I doubt any of them work 24/7, or at least I hope they don't), spamming groups and hiding or deleting all of your photos isn't going to make them move faster. Trust me, I think they know you're angry.
Posted 31 months ago.
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kakul said Folks -- please understand that we are reading all your comments and are taking this situation very seriously. Coming up with the right solution requires getting together teams of people across time zones and continents. Please bear with us as we work through this.
At least for me your time is wasted. This entire process shows how few you understand. There is no German law that justifies censorship of an entire country nor has this anything to do with German localization.
I want a hosting provider I can trust and thought flickr is worth trusting. They said, hey upload your photos to us, unlimited storage, use us as your archive, yada, yada. Now they say hey, you can upload your photos here, but do not depend on us as to whether they can be seen.
I now have to find a photo hosting that I can trust more than flickr or Yahoo (should be easy after that).
Posted 31 months ago.
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Come give me an answer to my last? Do you not belive me? Should I make a move with the screen capture? Go on an friends page with safe filter shows me 3 photos with sfe filter of (what I cant do with my German account) shows me 103! And you are after serious discussion with the flickr stuff honestly sure that is no effect by the how you call it "situation"!
Rubbish bullshit!!!
Where should I post the quicktime file that shows that you are wrong?
Posted 31 months ago.
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@George:
And if I don't wish to do so, flickr does this for me.
Quoting heise:
Those who do not completely classify their images risk having Flickr categorize their entire account, and hence all of its images, as moderate or restricted, as do those who label their images inappropriately according to Flickr's classification
Posted 31 months ago.
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licht_fanger - again - it's obvious you're angry, but please calm down.
I responded to you above.
Posted 31 months ago.
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licht_faenger we talked about "getting personal" already? Helpfull behaviour?
Posted 31 months ago.
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However, there is one thing missing: The answer. Why?. Because of which law, court decision or whatever?
It is time for answers, flick!
Posted 31 months ago.
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msslovi0 edited this topic 31 months ago.
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kakul: I'm confused by your post. If his girlfriend is under the German blanket, then how can he share "moderate" or "restricted" images with her? The friends/family/private setting does not override the filters. And even private images are required to be filtered, according to the rules and multiple threads on the topic.
So are you suggesting that people circumvent the German Block by mis-filtering their images?
I mean, more than they're probably doing en masse right now.
[edit: george says safe-private is ok to do. will file that away.]
Posted 31 months ago.
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The Searcher edited this topic 31 months ago.
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kakul: no I have no appreciation for the situation with many people in many timezones you have to contact. you should have the explanation handy _before_ you enforce crappy decisions. Now it is to late. You have had _weeks_ to think about it I guess. No thinking, breathing organism could serious have thought this kind of action would pass the community unnoticed.
I'm getting angrier and angrier with every passing hour without a proper explanation.
The only decicion I would accept now is to switch back to normal, uncensored flickr. Any other conclusion and I will quit my membership.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Not personaly Yahoo inc give us the answer for this Censorship! We wait since Yesterday!
George - if it's my problem to flag nude pictures as what I want for what is then the hole filtering? That make no sence? You guys don't know anymore what to answer!
We flag our nudes as safe and only for friends and nothing happens? Sure?
If it would be easy like that why you told not yesterday?
Posted 31 months ago.
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ok folks I calm down! if you want to give me an answer try to reach me at licht_faenger@yahoo.de
Thats it!
Posted 31 months ago.
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Saftyfilter is fine and a good idea. The blody bad idea is that one has not the freedom to choose what level I want to see!
And what does the translation of the flickr pages have to do with it that now suddenly photos which are flaged as moderate or restricted cannot be viewed. It is just plain rediculous! :-/
Posted 31 months ago.
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babblingfaerie, we could also start to get to know each other while waiting ... like after earthquakes ... a big disaster (and I feel this is one) can bring people closer :-)
Posted 31 months ago.
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Ρanayotis edited this topic 31 months ago.
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I will return here tomorrow.
If Flickr hasn't changed this situation, I will leave.
Posted 31 months ago.
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OKok... we got 2 Problems...
Problem 1:
The Constributers, the people which share their pictures get there pictures rated as porn even if they are not and have problems to change it.
Problem 2:
The Visitors, which can't switch the Filter off (EVEN THERE IS NO SUCH STUPID ANTI-PORN LAW IN GERMANY!!!)
Now to the "Law"-Thingy...
Some say the Filter cant be switched off because of US-Laws... WHY THE FUCK DOES A US LAW RESTRICT GERMANS ?!?!?! Also there would be absolutely no reason for especially for US-Law ban such pictures for german users because it's TOTALLY LEGAL IN GERMANY, It is not like in the USA (OMG, THATS A BOOOOOB, WE WILL DIE!). ok, some other people say the filter is needed because of German laws which must be took care on (sry 4 my bad english) because FLICKR now is viewable in a german version... then PLEASE give me / us a QUOTE from the stupid dumbf*** german politician which said this, so I can start a revolution and throw him out of our gouvernment! Hope you understood the most of what i've written and answer please flickr staff.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Would anyone be so kind, please, and explain WHY flickr says that they HAVE TO act so?
I don't get it, sorry.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Panayotis, if I thought that were possible in anything resembling a polite and calm way at this point, I'd bring the coffee, tea and cookies.
Posted 31 months ago.
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This sounds like a bug and not censorship...and instead of complaining why don't you just move to another photo sharing group...This seems to be an issue that is drawing in all the people that thrive on drama...there are many other more important issues going on in the world..I am sure this 'bug' will be worked out. I have not seen anything approaching censorship on this site and it seems that the censorship in other countries stem from the countries government themselves. Flickr has nothing to be gained from censorship in these countries..and why pick out just these..not to be mean but what makes these any more important than any other. Politics has many outlets out there..this is one for photography..lets not lose the focus here. Please remember you can leave, no one is holding you here!! Over reacting never solves anything....be patient and if it doesn't get resolved do what gets the attention of the corporations faster than anything and don't use their product...
Just my humble opinion...
Posted 31 months ago.
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 and maybe some pie?
Posted 31 months ago.
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Pisco Bandito "Do any of you honestly think that flickr wants it to be like this? Do any of you really think that flickr has CHOSEN to "censor" anyone?"
From Stewart's comment:
"-- we have been in deliberation on this for a while..."
"The decision came down to the wire, but we decided to include Germany"
"It definitely was not a decision that was made lightly..."
Deliberation. Decision. Decided. Not made lightly.
Doesn't look like they had no clue what they were doing.
Posted 31 months ago.
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get the coffee ready babblingfaerie ,-) polite or not we may need it because it looks like the answer will not come soon ;-)
Posted 31 months ago.
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It is not like in the USA (OMG, THATS A BOOOOOB, WE WILL DIE!)
Huh? I love boobs. Other people's even.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Would anyone be so kind, please, and explain WHY flickr says that they HAVE TO act so?
flickr is currently not willing to answer this question!
Posted 31 months ago.
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If they won't repare this I'll leave Flickr! This is unacceptable! .... Didn't Yahoo learned anything after "the China episode"?
Posted 31 months ago.
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I guess you're missing the point. We don't want a solution (yet). We want an explanation. We want to communicate - that's what a community is all about?
They deny any proper communication. This results in a major loss of confidence for many of the users.
It's all about trust and the way we behave to each other, especially when it comes to such an delicate issue like censorship.
Posted 31 months ago.
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"then PLEASE give me / us a QUOTE from the stupid dumbf*** german politician which said this, so I can start a revolution and throw him out of our gouvernment!"
right on. possibly the best proactive suggestion I've seen in, well at least the last few hundred posts.
Posted 31 months ago.
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@R4mbo - You might want to read this post about German restriction of internet content: www.flickr.com/photos/boxbox/548104545/#comment7215760035...
Posted 31 months ago.
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Lú_ edited this topic 31 months ago.
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I remember a time when folks called for licorice...
Posted 31 months ago.
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I did enjoy my time with Flickr very much but it's time for a change now. Can anyone recommend a similiar or even better site maybe? Your help would be very much appreciated.
As I don't want to bring that threat off topic please post your answer here:
www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/42826/
Thanks a lot!
Posted 31 months ago.
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tillwe: There is such a thing as negative attention. This "protest" really makes the aggrieved user base look like the obnoxious party, not the Flickr staff, who have been calm and reasoned in their responses to the mob thus far. I think I'd be issuing refunds and punting people to the curb for being so obnoxious. (I guess that's why I don't run a social photo sharing site.)
licht_faenger: Dude, if Flickr is so evil why are you still using it? I guess people love their drama.
Posted 31 months ago.
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"then PLEASE give me / us a QUOTE from the stupid dumbf*** german politician which said this, so I can start a revolution and throw him out of our gouvernment!"
Yep!!!
Posted 31 months ago.
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@mightyquinninlex
Wehret den Anfängen!
Posted 31 months ago.
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So, for some as of yet entirely unknown reason, Yahoo decided to disable Safe Search control in four countries. Flickr staff is probably bound by NDAs, and working frantically behind the scenes to get together both a solution and a publishable story. Everybody is rightly unhappy about the situation.
All that seems clear. What's less clear is who is served by continued yelling. If there are good reasons for the Safe Search block, possibly of a legal nature, yelling at Flickr won't change that; yelling at the lawmakers might. If there aren't, we'll see the filtering problem fixed within a few days, I'm sure.
So calm down, exercise patience, and go outside. It's a nice day. At least in Berkeley it is.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Flickr should just pull the German flickr and put it back to the way it was...if its not broke don't fix it..this is a prime example of that!!
Posted 31 months ago.
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I agree whole heartedly with Genista...well put!!! ;-)
Posted 31 months ago.
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and we are all free not to get pro
we are all free to leave flickr
Posted 31 months ago.
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Ingo: They didn't say. That's part of the probleme.
Babblignfaerie: Maybe we could make some fire in some garbage can, too. I mean, as part of the polite protest, but it get's cold at night, and coffee and tea and cookies alone are useless.
Mightyquinninles: If it's a bug, why isn't Flickr staff telling us that? And why we don't move? Because -- I can only speak for me, but I guess, there are others too -- we like Flickr. The application. The community. And so on. We can't take that with us if we leave -- but if we have to stay, or want to stay, and Flickr stays broken, we have a problem. And most of us are quite patient -- but if the only reaction is: there is something going on, we can't you say what, we try to find a solution, but we can't you tell what the problem is we are trying to solve, and so on ... it is not easy to stay calm and patient. Please understand that. Protest is annoying, if it's a protest march closing down a pedestrian zone, so shoppers are annoyed, or if it is the web2.0 equivalent, closing down a photo sharing portal. Please understand that we -- and again I can only speak for myself, but guess that others share this motif -- don't protest, write angry entries and so on because we hate flickr or because we don't have something else to do, but because we came to flickr as the best photo community we could find. And because we want to stay here -- and can't do this if the community is artifically split and crippled.
Posted 31 months ago.
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I would still very much like to see the 'terms of service' this is according to Help/FAQ/Content Filters/What is Safe Search supposed to be based on.
Posted 31 months ago.
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@Genista: but I can't yell at lawmakers when I don't know the why, or?
Posted 31 months ago.
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mightyquinninlex: i think flickr/yahoo is far from broke ;-)
(this one was to easy not to make, no bad intentions though, your english is perfectly understandable)
Posted 31 months ago.
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tillwe, why don't you go out, to your local library, say, get a coffee on the way, maybe, watch some people running hither and tither, then, when you reach the library, browse the shelves for interesting stuff. When you finally arrive in the reference section, pull out the English-Deutsch Langenscheidt and look up patience. Slowly.
Posted 31 months ago.
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de jäck Mamsäll - The terms of service are linked at the bottom of this (and every) page. The FAQ and Community Guidelines are also down there.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Posted 31 months ago.
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...And most of us are quite patient...
I don't know if "patient" is the word i'd use to describe some of the people in this thread.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Actually it is 'mightyquinninlex' but that's not here or there..has anyone in Germany contacted their government representative to see if there is some law that is interfering with this or if they could contact Flickr and find out what the problem is...that is why they are their (the gov't) to serve us, no?
Posted 31 months ago.
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@Genista: first of all, my local library is closed at night, so that's not possible. If my english is not perfect, then bear that with me -- but don't get personal because foreigners don't speak english perfectly. Or what is the problem?
((Edit: And of course I should read more slowly: your point wasn't the English language, but not being patient enough. Okay. I know quite well the meaning of "patience" (no, it's not a version of solitary card games); but patience is something relative, isn't it?))
((Still edit: by the way, it's quite funny that leo.org -- a big online dictionary English/German -- translates "geduldig" -- my translation for "patient" -- also with "uncomplaining" and "tolerant". These are not really part of the German meaning of the word ;-) ))
Posted 31 months ago.
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tillwe edited this topic 31 months ago.
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 Well, patience - like lambs for the slaughter?
Sorry, a bit harsh and polemic - no offense.
But patience just for the sake of patience is not my cup of tea, when there are issues at stake like censorship.
Posted 31 months ago.
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@Genista:
We are currently punished and don't even know what we are accused of. Go and ask someone else for patience. Thanks.
Posted 31 months ago.
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I also cannot understand why WHY W H Y they didn't had the explanation ready before such large and restrictive changes are rolled out. At least they could have informes and apologized upon the activation of censorship in the 4 countries and explained why.
As the link in the FAQ (due to your local terms of service) isn't cleart as I couldn't find any hint about this in the germany Terms of Servie for yahoo. Also its strange they cannot ferer to the actual passages of those ToS (in german AGB).
Posted 31 months ago.
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Well it seems that some are beginning to realise that maybe onerous German internet regulations have something to do with the problem.
www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/42597/229147/
If that is the problem then having admins won't solve it because you've going to have to have a whole army of censors based in Germany checking the 3000 images a second posted on flickr for illegal german content. And when they find one what happens:
o - do they delete it?
o - make it private?
o - restricted moderated?
o - flag it not for Germany?
Just what?
Posted 31 months ago.
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WhiskyPhreak, greynine
yes, an information that this action has to be done and that a resolution will be expected at least at xx.xx.xx prior to this action would have been much more professional.
But now this mistake has been done and everybody here is speculating about censorship and forced bans.
I'm really looking forward for the explanation because I'm pretty much sure that it has nothing to do with censorship or forced bans.
Posted 31 months ago.
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@tilwe
I don't think anyone is getting personal over your English..it actually isn't that bad and just as good if not better than a lot of Americans I know and on occasion including myself..I think people are just advocating a little patience and letting the drama settle down...it seems the problem is being dealt with and plastering answer flickr answer in all the groups doesn't seem a practical approach...there are many other venues available and this doesn't seem to be a censorship problem yet...lets give it a couple of days and see if it has not been cleared up....patience .....
Posted 31 months ago.
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If that is the problem then having admins won't solve it because you've going to have to have a whole army of censors based in Germany checking the 3000 images a second posted on flickr for illegal german content.
But "Forumhaftung" is for every content. There can also be offending stuff which is marked save. If flickr wants to be save on this, they'll have to kick us completely (before we leave, of course).
Posted 31 months ago.
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msslovi0 edited this topic 31 months ago.
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...and another member is gone...no real statement...just staff-bubble...and another one...
We are seriously discussing in our Hamburg-community where to go when flickr doesn´t switch back to the old filter-system in the next days.
Bye
rob_visual - on of the admins of the Hamburg!-Pool
PS: We had our first successful flickr-event last week here in Hamburg and now we are sad about this new situation because everything worked so fine the last weeks. But under this circumstances flickr is not the right platform for activities in the future.
Posted 31 months ago.
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To attempt clarity: The SafeSearch system was designed to provide all our members with a way to surf public areas of Flickr that was aligned to their personal comfort level. If you want to share content privately, you're welcome to apply safety levels that work for your friends and family.
msslovi0: "And if I don't wish to do so, flickr does this for me."
Yes. If you wish to engage in a public space but aren't prepared to follow the community guidelines for that public space, then your content may be moderated.
The Searcher: We encourage everyone to apply appropriate safety levels to all of their content, even if it's private. That's really just to be on the safe side, and is not an official policy.
Posted 31 months ago.
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Lú, thank you, but...
"If your Yahoo! ID is based in Singapore, Germany, Hong Kong or Korea you will only be able to view safe content based on your local Terms of Service so won’t be able to turn SafeSearch off."
it's these 'local (Yahoo) terms' I would like to know something about.
Posted 31 months ago.
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...sounds like we have to move to another platform. Here are no real answers to our questions. We want to know "WHY" this happend. And why we (Germans) are so different from people in france or in the USA?
Just tell us. Or play games with us...but not for long! My pro-account ends this year...
Posted 31 months ago.
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Yes agree for the issue "Forenhaftung" the current filter isn't of any use, as its not effective in most cases, as comments on photos not need to mark restricted are still distributed. Also for the nazi insignia this filter is useless but "Forenhaftung" also appies to this as distributing this may also be illegal in germany.
Posted 31 months ago.
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@babblingfaery:
Thanks for the link, so lets check,
firstly with "(OMG, THATS A BOOOOOB, WE WILL DIE!)" I was joking about your gouvernment and laws, not about the people which life there.
ISP Liability
Germany has passed a law which would allow prosecution of online providers who "knowingly" allow their services to be used to distribute illegal material (such as child pornography or Nazi propaganda) if it is "technically possible and reasonable to prevent it."
child pornograhy and nazi propaganda has nothing to do with this Filter and should be banned by website providers of every country without the need of any law. The rest of your content is also related to nazi propaganda.
The point is, there is no law in Germany which says there MUST be an aktive "Adult"-Content filter anywhere. You can not turn the Filter off which is totally reasonless.
Posted 31 months ago.
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R4mbo (A.S.) edited this topic 31 months ago.
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Posted 31 months ago.
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mightyquinninlex -- sorry for misspelling your name, it's not that easy to spell ;-)
To the points: I did not speak to a lawmaker, but I'm quite informed about German Internet law (as I was active in a political action committee on internet and politics for a while), and there is nothing that directly comes to mind. Some possible legal reasons where discussed in this thread -- youth safety ("Jugendschutz", against porn), that you are not allowed to use nazi symbols, the "Forenhaftung" (as mentioned by Der Spiegel online; that is: a provider of a service with user generated content has to monitor this content and delete illegal content; BTW:Walwyn -- German photo community seems to handle this without hardwired filtering, and without an army of human monitoring staff) -- but as long as we don't know, it's not really possible to go to some politicians or lawmakers.
(The most probable outcome: Me: "Flickr censors images in Germany -- did they tell you, why that is?" -- Lawmaker: "No, they didn't speak with me. Why don't you ask them?").
About letting the drama settling down -- that's easier said if you're not involved. My gut feeling is that the result in some days will be some lame explanation, but no change of policy -- especially if we don't constantly do something. That's not really rational, I know, but I don't trust Yahoo (and to a lesser degree, Flickr) very much.
Posted 31 months ago.
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tillwe edited this topic 31 months ago.
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Steve, and all of the flickr Team, i am seeing everybody post messages about this all over flickr, i think that you seriously need to sort this out with Yahoo or something, because it's a major issue... with major coverage.
Posted 31 months ago.
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mightyquinninlex, flickr will get the patience some of you are asking for, because it's getting dark in germany. But IMHO they do not deserve it.
Censoring certain users and having no explanation ready when this becomes a drama is just - stupid. Looks much like StudiVZ, but I thought Yahoos PR is better prepared than a small start-up. It is obviously not.
Posted 31 months ago.
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msslovi0 edited this topic 31 months ago.
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@funkaoshi
I don't know if "patient" is the word i'd use to describe some of the people in this thread.
I do know "Troll" is most definitely a word I'd use to describe some of the people in this thread.
@George
Please don't make this personal
You're kidding, right?
For those affected by the new censorship, this is VERY personal!
The lack of explanation for the move is just plain insulting.
@Robert K
What you're quoting sounds much like the usual US Corporate lingo and explains nothing.
"We're still hoping that that was the right decision.", also from Stewart, suggest that they indeed had no clue what they had coming.
Posted 31 months ago.
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