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Wohoo, nerd rage is hilarious sometimes. This has been a fun read.
Me, I don't much care for or about Yahoo, but I did sign up for a Yahoo account back in the 18th century which has lain fallow lo! these many years, and (incredibly) I remembered the password.
It took all of 20 seconds to get to the point of "OK, make it so" for the switchover. I didn't commit, because I'm keen to see how this plays out.
But I *do* want a YE OLDE SCHOOLE badge, damn it. (Also, since Flickr has been working at reasonable speed for the first time ever here in Korea in my experience since launch, I've got warm fuzzies, I guess).
Posted 65 months ago.
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I am one of the old skool members (and I loved every bit of that time). When I first heard that Flickr had been bought by yahoo and all the data had been moved to California, I was a touch worried. But nothing much changed. Then came the day that there were two sign in options - and I hated it. I actually had a bookmark for the flickr "old skool" sign in page.
I've had one yahoo a/c disappear and am not really interested doing anything with the new one that I created later (yes, I can be a glutton for punishment). So, I guess this is where flickr and I part ways - I am pro for another year (just renewed) and so I will stick around till '08. I am praying that someone shows sense and allows us old skoolers to keep our logins.
Posted 65 months ago.
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zota, regarding using your yahoo id: I've had one for a few years that I had to get to read yahoo groups. I've had to log in to the groups on occasion as I've reset my browser and cleared cookies, but I've never used that id to log into whatever account I was given at yahoo. I have used that id as my flickr account (I merged whatever day it was - 2? 3? days ago). My suspicion is that as long as you log into flickr and reset that cookie by your normal usage, you'll be fine. You'll recognize, of course, that I don't speak for yahoo.
I also have a yahoo id for my DSL account with yahoo/sbc. I log into that account annually because that's where they send my renewal notices. That account has never been cancelled for inactivity. Of course, the mailbox is chock full of spam from yahoo's trusted partners; I have never used that account other than to read my renewal terms, never sent mail from it, but still it's spammed. C'est la vie.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Hey Staff - I really want to hear answers to this and this please.
My greatest concern is that some random event elsewhere on Yahoo will result in the loss of all my photos and, more importantly, the metadata and community connections associated with them. An example: an IM client trips a tripwire on Y!IM because of a network problem I can't see, the account is cancelled & I don't realise until I next try to log in to Flickr by which time it's too late.
I'm no fan of Yahoo but I'd not quit Flickr just because of this merge requirement. But these apparently valid concerns might be enough to do it. I care a lot about the time & energy I have put into my Flickr account over the years and I'd love decent answers to these issues please.
Posted 65 months ago.
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waking jonas, over in the wii thread, a zooomr guy says he's working on swapping APIs with flickr. Years ago, Stewart said he'd allow access to flickrs by other photo sites if they allowed the same access, so that may be your ticket.
See
www.flickr.com/forums/help/32687/page12/#reply165678
Posted 65 months ago.
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While I'm dissapointed that I'll have to merge my flickr account with my Yahoo! account, I'm not going to stop using flickr over it. I mean, I've had the Yahoo! account for years anyways.. Using it on flickr won't be a big deal.
But to all you whiners out there, did you really think you were going to get to use your flickr IDs forever? I seem to recall around aquesition time that it was mention that all flickr accounts would eventually be merged with Yahoo! accounts. So what's the big deal? You knew it was coming.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I have a simple problem with using a Yahoo ID for Flickr. I'm afraid of losing my password, either by memory or by phishing. With Flickr, there is a backup email address (currently my gmail address) at which a password can be mailed; with a Yahoo account you have to remember a 100 different things that you old them. I've known friends who have never been able to recover their Yahoo accounts after losing their passwords. I hardly ever use my Yahoo account, the email is limited to signing up for sites that I wouldn't want to spam my real email address.
I was always uncomfortable with Yahoo's acquisition, because my photos are really important, and personal, to me - more so than e-mail, calendars, contacts and the dozen other things that portals like Yahoo and Google provide. I would hate nothing more than my photos being relegated to just a small part of the whole "Yahoo! experience" and integrated with everything else on Yahoo. Yet this is the way Flickr seems to be going - camera links now take you to Yahoo shopping and I wonder how long it will be before the Flickr site is crowded with everything from your Yahoo Messenger online status to targeted Yahoo ads and what not. I guess all I'm asking for is that my photos be important enough to be hosted independent of some big-name and wide-ranging portal like Yahoo or Google; and that is why I was happy to pay for a pro account at Flickr. I guess Yahoo/Flickr wants its users to go in a different direction. As they said in their notification, they're already into tight integration with Yahoo mobile sites, and that just isn't what I want.
I wish they would at least allow us to keep our Flickr credentials till our accounts expire, because that is what I paid money for. I did not buy a pro account at Flickr to link it to Yahoo. As of now, I'm very seriously thinking of moving elsewhere, and as of now it seems I only have till next month to decide.
I must say that I don't buy the "it's too hard to maintain two sets of authorization systems" argument. I don't think this is a technological challenge. I am no heavyweight web developer but I am a programmer and I can't see why this is such a huge problem. As far as I can see, the system is already up and running (people can currently login through both avenues). In fact, it is this kind of statement that doesn't ring entirely true that will be the cause if I leave Flickr. I have a feeling (as many others on this forum seem to have) that this is being done solely to integrate more tightly with Yahoo's other services.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Hi everyone (thanks otherthings, that was a lovely post.)
The absence of staff feedback in this thread is just another indication of the current and future direction.
With luck the future direction won't include many more threads like this one ... :-)
Most of us simply don't have the answers to the bigger questions right now. It's not that we don't want to answer or help, but for many questions there are still issues being resolved on our end. Answers will come!
(Ok I know this is may not count for much, but: I merged my account ages and ages ago, well before I worked at Flickr. I don't use my Y! email, I've never been spammed at my "alternate" address, I don't use other Yahoo! properties so I'm not bombarded by ads -- and you won't see ads on Flickr anyway if you're a Pro user.
I've never had issues with getting locked out of my account or anything like that -- and trust me -- if YOU have those issues, we really want to help you get back in your Flickr account. It's not much in our interest to let some weird technical issue keep you from your photos. )
Posted 65 months ago.
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But the user is always right.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Heather Champ,
I am sorry that you are now THE MAN. I don't have time to go through the 1200+ comments in front of me so this will surely be redundant. I work for a large high tech corporation so I am used to be pushed down by THE MAN. I joined the Vancouver based Flickr photo sharing community because it was free of corporate clampdown and a great alternative to the likes of Kodak's offerings. I was okay with the Yahoo acquisition at first since it seemed like things were the same. This current change is very symbolic which is why it is hitting such a nerve. It isn't too late for Yahoo to say sorry, made a mistake, Old Skool can always be Old Skool. I'd personally like to see this bad PR affect Yahoo's stock price. As far as my confidence of Yahoo to make smart business decisions goes I now have serious doubts.
Contribute to the 2000+ Diggs as well:
www.digg.com/tech_news/Flickr_Users_Are_Mad_as_Hell_About...
-Dollar39
Seattle, WA
Posted 65 months ago.
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nigham -- as long as you keep a working email address in your Flickr account, we'll always be able to help you get back into your account.
Posted 65 months ago.
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well, stewart and caterina, seems there is an obvious thing to do. remove the "at present" from heather's statement regarding deletion of flickr accounts due to termination of yahoo accounts. I've invested in flickr, in numerous ways: my account is relatively large, high res photos, i'll get a service to back them up. flickr is simply not a reliable service for my account until this has been resolved.
the merge per se means relatively little to me.
boy, how the cluetrain has passed you guys by....
Posted 65 months ago.
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@ treebjen
Do you expect to have the answers before the March 15th deadline? Not to sound cynical, but, well, I'm cynical in regards to the was Yahoo might want to deal with these concerns.
Posted 65 months ago.
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My two cents (as if anyone from Flickr really cares what we paying customers have to say at this point): this is a dumb move and I will likely not renew my account.
This completely reeks of the standard-issue corporate mentality of pulling customers into one big amorphous blob and shoving NEW AND IMPROVED features down everyone's throats whether they like it or not, which utterly misses the whole point of a site like Flickr.
Here's a crazy idea. Roll out your new stuff as "Yahoo account only" and if old skoolers want it, they can convert their accounts over to Yahoo. If not, they lose out on new features and get to remain old skool. Why is that so hard to do?
I'll answer for you: it's not.
No surprise. I imagine you have some corporate pinheads on autopilot pushing things in that direction and that's that.
I've seen Yahoo take over sites like this before and improve them to death. It's hard to imagine Flickr as Web 2.0 roadkill but the Yahoo steamroller won't be stopped, it appears.
Sad news this is and a precursor to worse. Some of us have seen it before. I thought Flickr would be different.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Posted 65 months ago.
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shankargallery edited this topic 65 months ago.
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Its beginning to smell of May 2004 around here.
Posted 65 months ago.
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On another note... I am curious... If Old Skool folk are only 5% of the whole of Flickr folk, what percentage of paid Pro folk are Old Skool folk?
((Ack. All Apologies. The above sounds like a scary word problem from the 6th grade. ack.))
((Rev. Dan and Heather, can we have dogs for presents instead of kitties?))
Posted 65 months ago.
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Not to sound cynical, but, well, I'm cynical in regards to the was Yahoo might want to deal with these concerns.
Erm, I'm standing right here!
But anyway, yes, before March 15th.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Oh it's "a pain" to maintain two separate systems.
Oh Old Skool members, despite being around since 2004, still get "confused." Human anyway, even a couple of years, our wee brains are not enough to know how to well navigate a website.
Oh, even though Old Skool members would prefer signing up labouriously for a yahoo account, than to risk being confused by a dual log-in screen--even if flickr might be so nice to want to just keep the old skool sign in, but make it small and unobtrusive.
Oh yes, we're a waste of economic resources. Well, since we're just the oldest 5% bit of flickr. It's the marketing to potential new flickr customers that is more economically viable and wise.
Oh, it's also correct to assume that old skool, especially pro ones, are rather locked in already. Yes, it would be too much trouble for us to download all our photos and put them elsewhere.
Oh, it's also true that we have been convinced that flickr rocks, that we have stayed here so long, and will not leave, no matter how the ship is rocking now.
Oh, it is not like flickr had rewarded us for having been here for so long, there's no need to change that now, is it? We're here to stay anyway huh?
Oh and we've weathered the years with flickr, surely we can understand painful changes? Especially since these changes are all for the better eh?
Oh, we must understand too, that it's not just friendly flickr now, there's big boss yahoo. Yahoo has got to stay competitive, and anything that isn't perfectly economically efficient must go. We're the inelastic demand of the group, things can get painful, but we can endure. It's the profit that matters eh? We old skool pro users have to remember how much of a burden we are on flickr, taking up above average space . Potential new pro users are greener pastures, takes up smaller server space, use smaller bandwidth, and yes, paying the same amount! How much more profitable is that?
So we must be understanding.
Oo, my social conditioning has taught me well. ;)
Oh, what to do now...
Posted 65 months ago.
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> when flickr//yahoo forces me to use my yahoo id
this is the list of cookies I get when I log into yahoo
if you don't appreciate your internet activity being tracked by corporate sonsors, you block advertising tracking cookies selectivery by using firefox (and maybe IE7).
you can also use lavasoft ad-aware SE (freeware) to remove tracking cookies created by IE6.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Thanks for telling us what you know, treebjen. I understand that since the March 15 date hasn't arrived yet, you don't have all the answers.
But the Yahoo website using Flickr user photos, without their approval, to sell advertising has already been implemented.
What did you and the other staff know about Yahoo using our photos?
Posted 65 months ago.
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delted
Posted 65 months ago.
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shankargallery edited this topic 65 months ago.
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block advertising tracking cookies
But you know, at some point blocking those cookies will prevent Flickr from "serving us optimally" and you won't be able to get in without those cookies set. That's a trivial thing to do and something I wouldn't put past Yahoo.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I get so many cookies and tracking cookies each day when I have to log in and out of my business email account on yahoo.com that I had to run CCleaner about 5 times a day! I can pull a screengrab from those cookies from one yahoo session that it would make people cringe. THAT is one of the big concerns I have over the forced Yahoo ID. BTW, I quit msn.com groups I started for these very same problems a few years ago. I am so sorry to see that this is now going the same route with yahoo over to flickr. I find yahoo to be very intrusive and this goes back more than a few years now, so I am not decrying something that "could be the case", it IS the case for me.
BTW, I do thank the Admins and Staff who have set up and continued this forum thread. If nothing else, a lot of us little people have found that we are not so few in number. And I am optimistic that such discussions and suggestions can and will promote ways that flickr staff can go to bat for us all.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Meanwhile, as the deadline draws closer, brace yourself for a flood of Help Forum topics entitled "Merge Problems", "I Can't Get Into My Account", and so on...
Posted 65 months ago.
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> But you know, at some point blocking those cookies will prevent Flickr from "serving us optimally" and you won't be able to get in without those cookies set. That's a trivial thing to do and something I wouldn't put past Yahoo.
i know they will try to force you to swallow their tracking cookies.
but you can try accepting just keep just the cookies needed (e.g. for login automatically).
if that does not work firefox has an option to keep some cookies for one cession only, so in doubt you can use that, and the cookies will be deleted when you exit firefox at the end of the day.
Posted 65 months ago.
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@treebjen: if I had kittens, I'd give you one. With a santa hat and everything. :-)
But ugh. Ad-tracking cookies is a concern I hadn't thought of before. So let's call that concern #4.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I am loving every minute of this, but I am sure it's all in vain. It's like Effie leaving The Dreamettes in here as Flickr has replaced soul with cents.
Good for you Stewart, pretend that you actually care by posting in hear, we know what you think.
The whole Flickr community should purge there photos and replace them with high resolution blanks.
I am sure that won't happen though. It's nice to know there are some people in here that still have their spine intact, I know some who don't.
Posted 65 months ago.
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TIme for a light insert into this thread! Between reading posts back and forth in Central and here through the afternoon and now late at night in Arizona time, I took a break. Let's just say that the title on this shot is worth the trip right now if you are OLD SKOOL....
Posted 65 months ago.
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Yes! Old skool! and paying member for 2 1/2 years...
Posted 65 months ago.
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as long as you keep a working email address in your Flickr account, we'll always be able to help you get back into your account.
Please put this in the FAQ and TOS.
Right now, you are publicly announcing that people will be locked out of Flickr at Yahoo's whim or error.
Posted 65 months ago.
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yeah, would be nice to hear an answer to the question i asked on the previous page and also asked here by zota
if your flickr account will not be deleted automatically if your yahoo ID is, why is this in the FAQ?
Posted 65 months ago.
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removed
Posted 65 months ago.
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shankargallery edited this topic 65 months ago.
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the only reason i can see for the forced migration is because it lets them do away with flickr mail ... let's see if flickr mail still exists in 1 year - and then the argument that you don't have to use yahoo mail will be redundant, you will need to use yahoo mail instead of flickr mail
Posted 65 months ago.
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What did you and the other staff know about Yahoo using our photos?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I knew nothing of it until this afternoon.
But you know, at some point blocking those cookies will prevent Flickr from "serving us optimally" and you won't be able to get in without those cookies set. That's a trivial thing to do and something I wouldn't put past Yahoo.
It's actually non-trivial, because the flickr.com domain can't read yahoo.com cookies (that's the way cookies work). Also, that would just be really stupid for us to do, wouldn't it?
if your flickr account will not be deleted automatically if your yahoo ID is, why is this in the FAQ?
That's a good question -- as I touched on above. Hopefully we'll get that clarified soon.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I find it dissappointing that flickr, popular for its flexibility and trendiness, is doing the exact opposite of what it stands for. Why force us to use yahoo?
Posted 65 months ago.
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@ treebjen
nigham -- as long as you keep a working email address in your Flickr account, we'll always be able to help you get back into your account. Thats slightly reassuring but I'm still not sure how it'll work. If I completely lose my Yahoo account, will I then have to create another one and then link it to my current flickr account? AFAIK, while such a thing is in the works (switching the yahoo ID linked to a flickr account), it's not implemented yet (according to your post above).
Posted 65 months ago.
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I know this is technically not supposed to be a rant and rave forum against yahoo, but I once deleted my yahoo answers ID, and my yahoo email address was deleted as well. Then after trying for weeks, I never got any replies from yahoo's tech support! finally i decided to abandon yahoo for gmail.
my point is (besides the fact that i hate yahoo and really want to avoid using it) having two associated yahoo IDs (yahoo flickr and yahoo email) is not reassuring at all.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I was pro switching my account, I didn't have reservations until this morning.
Then I read this www.flickr.com/forums/help/32752/
If the Flickr staff has any integrity left, they'll stop this insanity now and let people keep away from Yahoo signins.
This demonstrates without a doubt and as clear as day that Yahoo is evil. Will not and does not respect your rights. Will not honor your licence agreement and will not honor the TOS you sign with them.
I trusted the Flickr staff, and I trust when they say they didn't know about this till it was launched. They now have a duty to keep our respect that they've gained through running a great service with great morals and giving us the option to keep our Flickr accounts.
Infact the right thing to do would be to give people who signed up with Yahoo accounts the right to migrate over to flickr only accounts, this will never happen so I'd be happy with just not having to accept a aYahoo TOS.
Posted 65 months ago.
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( I can't believe I'm taking the bait, but: )
the only reason i can see for the forced migration is because it lets them do away with flickr mail [...] you will need to use yahoo mail instead of flickr mail
That's absurd! FlickrMail is for status messages within Flickr -- we certainly don't want to turn that into an entire email client. Ew ew ew.
If I completely lose my Yahoo account, will I then have to create another one and then link it to my current flickr account?
If, in the unlikely event that your Yahoo! ID takes a wrong turn down a dark alley in west Oakland, and never sees the light of day again (or, say, you just forget your password), you'll probably need to contact support to get things straightened out. This is why it's important for you to have a confirmed, working email address set up in your Flickr account, so we can communicate with you.
In regards to the Magic Yahoo! ID Re-Merging Tool, you'll probably need access to the Yahoo ID you'd merged with in order to verify that you were indeed the account owner. (AFAIK this hasn't been entirely speced out yet ... so ... we'll see.)
In any case, support should be able to provide further assistance. As has been said, over 95% of our users right now use Y!IDs to log in, so these types of issues aren't exactly new for us (forgotten IDs, lost passwords and other typical account management issues that any system has.)
I believe this was touched on elsewhere, but one of the reasons for consolidating to a single login system is to simplify and expedite these types of customer support issues.
Posted 65 months ago.
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it is a worry when yahoo itself has no idea about CC licenses ... besides that clear breach, yahoo has already clearly demonstrated it doesn't respect the integrity of your information or your privacy
plenty of people in china already feel the impact of that
as for not merging flickr mail and yahoo mail - yeah, and what's to say in a year the same old argument won't be trotted out "it's too hard to maintain 2 systems ... you don't need separate mail accounts" etc etc and on it goes
Posted 65 months ago.
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*omnia* edited this topic 65 months ago.
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treebjen wrote: Also, that would just be really stupid for us to do, wouldn't it?
"Stupid for us to do" hasn't stopped you from crapping on the "old skool" users. And "stupid for us to do" hasn't stopped you from forcing everybody to assimilate into the Yahoo! corporate machine. So why would anybody think "stupid for us to do" would stop you from abusing cookies or doing anything else?
Posted 65 months ago.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I knew nothing of it until this afternoon. - treebjen
Thanks for that answer, I appreciate it.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I use my primary e-mail address for all Flickr communications.
Have never even looked at the Yahoo! e-mail address which was created when I opened my Flickr account, and I never will.
Everyone who's being forced to merge (because that's what it boils down to, there's no "opt out" being offered) is perfectly free to never have to have any interaction with Yahoo! aside from the initial sign-in to get into Flickr - just as I do.
So far, I haven't had any problems...
Posted 65 months ago.
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you don't need separate mail accounts" etc etc and on it goes
Flickr Mail is not an email account, it's just for internal messaging.
95% of Flickr users already have an Yahoo-ID and now less than 5% are concerned that the whole system will break down? Sorry, I don't get it.
Posted 65 months ago.
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(=/.....
Posted 65 months ago.
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Hi,
I love Flickr, signed up a year or two ago but only started using it regularly when the new navigation came in - that made the site usable for me. And before that, the flash image presentation had put me off using the site. So, what I'm trying to say is that I appreciate the way you make the site better.
However, I feel that both my Yahoo account (created in the late 90s) and my Flickr account are both limiting in different ways. I'd like to unify my login on both.
If there's a way I can change my login name on my Yahoo! account, and also on my Flickr account, then I'm all for this change. But is that possible? I know I can change screen names, but I want to change the name that appears in my URLs and that I use to login.
If not, well I just don't see the benefits for users. Sure, in the login run there'll be bigger and better new features possible with a unified (Yahoo!) login system. But, somehow, that's not quite enough information to covince me.
Anyway, thanks for a great site.
matt
Posted 65 months ago.
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gingerbeardman edited this topic 65 months ago.
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www.DaveWard.net: "Stupid for us to do" hasn't stopped you from crapping on the "old skool" users. And "stupid for us to do" hasn't stopped you from forcing everybody to assimilate into the Yahoo! corporate machine. So why would anybody think "stupid for us to do" would stop you from abusing cookies or doing anything else?
"Abusing cookies" has absolutely no benefit to us, or to you. It would also go against the solidly-held principles of everyone on the flickr team.
Moving over to a centrally-administered, centrally-developed, tried-and-tested login system run by a dedicated team does have obvious benefits for us, but those benefits do also trickle down to you.
The Yahoo! login team have more resources than us to deal with failures and potential security issues.
We have a tiny development team, and a list of improvements (almost all of them directly inspired by flickr member requests) which needs the largest wall in our office to keep track of. Using a third-party login system frees up a significant chunk of our time to actually get those things done and delivered.
The obvious, inevitable choice for that third-party login system is the one which is built and maintained by flickr's parent company.
It's more secure, and it means that flickr will gain more features - the features you guys want - more quickly.
This is not a conspiracy.
I know that many of you are heavily and emotionally invested in flickr - as am I. I joined the site in 2004, way before Yahoo! thought of buying it, at a time when I never imagined I'd end up working here.
But the only difference you will see after merging is that you will type a different username and password into different boxes on a different page. End of story.
Much as many of you may loathe Yahoo!, the only tangible input the company has into flickr is to provide us with more hardware when we need it, and some excellent 24/7 support staff who ensure that our servers stay stable and available. Every decision about this site is made by the core team who are currently missing out on sleep to reply to these forum threads. That is not going to change any time soon. It's certainly not going to change because of a single login page.
Reading and participating in these threads is incredibly hard for all of us here, because we genuinely and completely pour our heart and soul into this place every day. We may just be an icon and a "staff" tag on a forum from where you're sitting, but accusations and insinuations of stupidity, malice or avarice on our parts really do hurt. A lot.
Flickr is a small group of human beings doing their damndest to provide you with the best site we can. You may not like some of our decisions. But we make them, after a great deal of careful consideration, because we believe that they'll allow us to keep doing the best for you.
We'll be over here, in the corner, continuing to do that.
We'd love you to stay on board for the ride.
[edit to acknowledge support staff :) ]
Posted 65 months ago.
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hitherto (staff) edited this topic 65 months ago.
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Show your fury here
Posted 65 months ago.
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Actually, the staff attitude here has really impressed me, even though the Y! thing hasn't. If I was in their shoes there's no way I'd let people from other services crawl around shilling for their sites. Nor would I have been as calm.
Posted 65 months ago.
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What have you done with our flickr, Yahoo?!
What a smartass decided to do this?
I want my flickr, NOT YAHOO! I've paid for this
Posted 65 months ago.
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liilliil edited this topic 65 months ago.
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Hey guys, thanks for non-sleeping-for-reply-us! A reason to love Flickr (don't take it as a reason-to-love you-guys, haha).
I don't want to merge my accounts, because i don't trust yahoo!, i see that if they deleted my account i could recovery it (please change the FAQ) already, and I have some questions to trust that my account won't be affected by the purple people there.
So, if I lost my password and/or the secret question (this occured before, but i asked for unmerge), then the Yahoo customer (don't-)care robot team don't reply me the right issue (as it's normal) could i recovery my Flickr? I mean, if everything goes away, no way to get my password back, then i lost all my photos and data and Pro account and all the love i spread here? just because of a Yahoo fault?
If i had some e-mails confirmed on my account, they could save me?
AND, if someone at Yahoo! deleted my account, my flickr doesn't go, right? I know, already replied, but i need to be sure sure sure and sure, can't lost everything just by a mistake of a purple people there.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I'm a part of that 5% ... the problem with yahoo is I already lose 3 Yahoo ID ... and it unable to recover ... ):
Posted 65 months ago.
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it's nice to see some staff have returned to this forum, and for that I thank you. I also would like to thank Flick for all the hard work they have done in the past.
I am however concerned to learn through hitherto 'a answer that this was actually a FLICKR decision and not something that has been forced upon them by Yahoo (as I thought would be the case)
Could you guys really not come up with another way of dealing with yahoo & non- yahoo accounts?
Posted 65 months ago.
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katrientje edited this topic 65 months ago.
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I think those last two points about the level of customer service for Yahoo! logins are good points to raise. I'd like to know more about that.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I can't see that 5% of users constitute such a problem that the entire system needs to be changed.
But then, I also can't see how so many ostensibly sentient people among that 5% can keep "losing" and forgetting Yahoo ID's and passwords...
Posted 65 months ago.
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In the olden days flickr was stand alone. Then the magic yahoo fairy waved its magic $wand, a long time ago. So, team whinerati, the evil was doable at about the time that Mycenae fell, in web terms. At the moment the Turks have crossed the Bosphorous. Fortunately, Islam being an inherently tolerant religion, we have little to worry about.
Posted 65 months ago.
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iansand edited this topic 65 months ago.
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hitherto wrote: But the only difference you will see after merging is that you will type a different username and password into different boxes on a different page. End of story.
Let's check back on that in a couple years.
Much as many of you may loathe Yahoo!, the only tangible input the company has into flickr is to provide us with more hardware when we need it.
So Yahoo! has no input on Flickr's terms of service?
Even if they really don't (right now), that's another statement to check back on in a year or two. Erosion is a gradual process, and bad ideas are best introduced slowly so that people won't notice them so much. The login change -- though you don't see it from the eye of the storm there at Flickr HQ -- is obviously just one step in the gradual introduction of many more bad ideas.
Every decision about this site is made by the core team who are currently missing out on sleep to reply to these forum threads. That is not going to change any time soon. It's certainly not going to change because of a single login page.
No, the merging of our personal information with Yahoo! -- an entity that is rightly-hated for its abuse of privacy, lack of security, cooperation with China's repressive regime, etc -- is only one little step in a long, gradual process of eroding what made Flickr great until now.
As for decision-making, how about if you run some of the more touchy ideas by your user base -- not just the average user, but your core user base of Flickr-evangelists? Why not check and see if an idea is going to piss off the majority of your most passionate, outspoken and dedicated users?
And what's with the absolutely inflexible "do it anyway" approach? Don't pretend you don't understand:
1. A decision to do something is made.
2. The decision is announced.
3. The users scream bloody murder and it's made abundantly clear that this is a really bad decision.
4. Staff claim to be "listening", but respond only with words.
5. All the facts, opinions, and outrage over the decision is utterly, flatly and coldly ignored. The decision proceeds, and the bad idea is implemented.
We'd love to stay on board for the ride with Flickr. But not if you insist on running a hose from the tailpipe into the window and tell us that breathing carbon monoxide will be good for us in the long run.
The very least you could do, if you're really hell-bent on forcing users to hand over personal information to Yahoo!, is to tell us what some of these "improvements" are going to be.
Way back near the start of this discussion, Striatic asked what the compelling reason is for users to get a Yahoo! account. Revealing a few of these improvements might finally be an adequate response; there certainly has been no compelling incentive stated so far. Why not put a little Aloe Vera on the throbbing wounds your "old skool" users are feeling?
Posted 65 months ago.
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Make your whinge count!!! Sign up here!!! Free steak knives!!!*
*Conditions apply
Posted 65 months ago.
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杨飞
says:
Nobody would hate Yahoo! unless he has some bad experiences with it.There are two obvious examples:Egroups and Geocities.Did you really actualize what you said after you acquire this two properties?!Yahoo?!?!?!?!?!How could you convince us to trust you again?Would you guarentee that you will not screw with flickr again?!
Posted 65 months ago.
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DO NOT WANT.
Up until this I really liked Flickr. Suddenly flickr has got sucky. Expect me not to renew my pro account and not to reccommend the service to anyone else.
Posted 65 months ago.
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It doesn't seem to 'remember me' each time. What's up with that?
"To protect your Yahoo! ID from misuse, Yahoo! automatically signs you off after a certain number of hours. You can modify this preference in your Yahoo! preferences."
uhm, but it doesn't work. i have my yahoo set up to only prompt me for my password every 2 weeks, yet yahoo signs me out every time i surf one page away from it. if i'm going to be logged off of flickr everytime i dare to surf away from it for one second it's going to be so greatly inconvenient that there will be no point in using it.
Wohoo, nerd rage is hilarious sometimes.
shut your cluck !
Posted 65 months ago.
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hey T r a c y (∆ncient), this doesn't apply to Flickr login, the cookie here will stay forever
Posted 65 months ago.
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Jardel - can you point me to where that's stated ? that will be great if it turns out to be true (which i won't know until i've been forced to merge - can't take anyone's word for it in advance, what with all my previous yahoo/geocities/webring experience). i stopped using yahoo because of the constant log outs, even within the yahoo site i'd be constantly prompted for my p/w over and over, it was just daffy.
on another tangent...
i'm a bit alarmed to have just found all my personal info inside my yahoo account - previously i've had nothing in there but my postal code & now i find my home address and my phone number - none of which i inserted myself. where would yahoo have gotten my info from... from my paypal info which flickr has ? i've had a yahoo account since '95 and never once had my real identity in it, so this is kind of worrisome.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Hey, maybe it's just me, but I'm not really bothered about this at all.
I merged my account 18 months ago, or whenever it was. It was pretty quick, my account is still associated with my Gmail address and I never have to worry about signing in because I clicked 'remember me'.
It's the same old Flickr as far as I can tell.
And believe me, I've whinged in the past!
Posted 65 months ago.
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Hitherto
If there's no malice or avarice on your part, then why not do the decent thing and offer pro-rata refunds to those paid members who object for deeply held objections to Yahoo and their marketing?
In other words, put our money where your mouth is.
Posted 65 months ago.
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hitherto says:
the only difference you will see after merging is that you will type a different username and password into different boxes on a different page. Exactly. And while the current flickr login page simply lets me enter my login details and save them in my browser's password wallet, Yahoo treats me like a dimwitted moron who must be protected from himself and willfully ignores my user preferences. I don't want to be insulted every time I sign in. Get that fixed, let them treat me like a valuable customer, not like an idiot, and I'll be happy to merge. Period.
And I already said why a permanent flickr sigin-in cookie is not an option.
Posted 65 months ago.
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T r a c y (∆ncient) here it is. And about your personal information i have no reply, as long as i know, paypal agreed that won't will reveal your information to anyone
Edit: Don't forget to check "remember me on this computer"
Posted 65 months ago.
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Don't forget to check "remember me on this computer" And don't forget that doing so breaks all pages that show recent activity "since your last login", because your last login will eventually be two or three years ago.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Isn't this FUN!!
Posted 65 months ago.
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hitherto says:
But the only difference you will see after merging is that you will type a different username and password into different boxes on a different page. End of story. </i?
no it wont be I have crappy yahoo account for launch.co.uk and ever time i want to use i ahve to reset the password, some times twice a day it never ever rembers my password and all ways says it is wrong,
If i ask yahoo for help i get the yahoo help web page mailed back to me, like i did not go read that first of all.
If i click the link saying i need actual human help i am ignored this has gone on for 3 years + now, there is no way things are going to get any better for me if we move to Y! sign on's things will only get worse a lot wworse to the point where flickr becomes unsuable becsue i can not log on.
Never mind the fact that Y! has terible terms of service for somethign i am paying for.
When will you relise we dont hate Y! for no good reason its becsue we ahve dam good reason and know what Y! is like from past experiance.
you may be albe to ring up a 24 hour help line and get all the support you need but we can not we are ignored 24/7 for years at a time.
I dont care what my login details are or how i log in, its the quality of service i currently get from yahoo thats teh problem and bring that crap shit to flickr!
Posted 65 months ago.
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naaah Mr. Last Minute, this doesn't occur, flickr take as you last login the last time you come to the page, i could close my browse windows and then come back later and see my last activity since my last login, this is an old rule to the remember me in old skool logins, i've used yahoo logins for a time and then asked for unmerge, but the "since the last login" is about when you come back to flickr, so, close browser and come, back, will show the last activity since you closed the browser.
Almost for me, this is how things works
Posted 65 months ago.
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for those of you who's main concern is giving personal data to yahoo.
If you don't mind virtually relocating to Kenya here is a website displaying all the postal codes, so just choose and pick one.
www.posta.co.ke/postalcodesa.htm
hmmm...actually, living in Kenya does sound good:)
Posted 65 months ago.
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Jardel — Heh. If that's true, that would be the only real advantage so far that one would have from merging :)
Posted 65 months ago.
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I guess I'll throw in my .02 worth.
I am unhappy about this merger. I don't care for Yahoo! and I don't like being associated with it. Currently I am a Pro account holder. I have to say that I feel a little bit gyp'd here. I paid to support Flickr, not Yahoo!.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Thanks Jardel. i have no idea what sort of fugue state i must have been in to put my personal info in my yahoo account, considering i've never used my real name or address for any email, forum, website, domain registration, social networking etc account in 12 years.
i'm still gonna be ms. last minute since i'm like that with everything anyway, and then i'll just wait for flickr to prove itself and continue being a good influence over the evil Y!
Posted 65 months ago.
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I'm old school, I have a pro account and I may be in the 5%....
but
I recommend sites to many friends, I know of at least 7 or 8 pro accounts that came to be because of me. It's word of mouth, Stewart and it sure won't happen for any Yahoo! properties again (delicious, upcoming, etc). I'm not a CEO of a competing company, I'm an early adopter and I'm being punished for being one AND giving Flickr my money.
I don't want a *&^#*&^# Yahoo! account.
(i also find it interesting that people who normally jump in and comment about creativecommons violations are being tight-lipped about yahoo's violation....is it because they work for y!?)
Posted 65 months ago.
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I reluctantly merged yesterday, hating the whole concept of it. Others have voiced that eloquently enough. Today I'm unable to upload pics via my trusted Mac 1001Uploadr (even after re-installing the whole thing) or via the Flikcr upload page. 'Auth failed' is the message I'm getting over and over again. Just now, after 30 minutes of uploading time, two of my pics appaer to have uploaded. I hate this utterly. I find the obligation to merge with an unwanted Yahoo ID and all that comes with it cheap and tasteless and I cannot for the life of me understand why you guys at Flickr Staff accepted such a crappy deal. No bargain at all.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Months ago, I bookmarked my Flickr page. Now I go to it with one click, no sign in ever. I hope telling this doesn't get me arrested.
.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Yahoo was the worst thing ever to happen to Flickr. The question is not why must everyone switch to Yahoo accounts now, but why did they start using Yahoo accounts at all? It's annoying. I don't use Yahoo mail. I don't want Yahoo mail. I just want to use Flickr. There's not good reason to implicate Yahoo in a photo sharing site except to simply whore out the Yahoo brand to the annoyance of the most loyal Flickr users. I hate Yahoo.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Good lord, it's only a login.
Posted 65 months ago.
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If your Y! ID is terminated by Yahoo, at present it does not lead to instant deletion of your Flickr account.
heather, thank you for your reply. Now if we could get an "official" policy on this for the future that goes beyond "at present" and the hard-headed FAQ entry, I'd feel much better about all this.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I've always been skeptical about this service. I used it because photos were easy to upload, but the TOS has always seemed too restrictive for me. Yahoo says there is no downside to merging the accounts, but tell that to the two keyboards I've smashed in frustration about not being able to find a human readable username!
Posted 65 months ago.
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Butterfield-
Don't you think the absolutely brilliant Cal Henderson, who basked so much in the glory of his technical solutions (remember the 'Data Normalization is for Sissies' presentation; how I laughed), could help you out with these ever-so-difficult and painful technical problems caused by having two different logins.
If not, here's my question: wht must it be a Yahoo login. I didn't pay money to Yahoo.
Posted 65 months ago.
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treebjen says above:
I've never had issues with getting locked out of my account or anything like that -- and trust me -- if YOU have those issues, we really want to help you get back in your Flickr account. It's not much in our interest to let some weird technical issue keep you from your photos. )
Yes, some of us DO get locked out of our Yahoo accounts and consequently our Flickr accounts even though we follow all the directions to the T. I reiterate that it's not particularly reassuring to get the auto-reply from Yahoo making users jump through impossible hoops to get assistance, and it's even LESS reassuring to get an auto-reply from Flickr saying that they'll get back to me in 9 days on this. Nine days? In internet-time, that's over a week! At least I know Yahoo won't help me (based on past personal experiences and from anecdotes all over teh internets.)
The Flickr staff - wonderful though they are - need to recognize that there are a core of people (most old-skool, probably less than 5% of the Flickr user base, probably accounting for much more than 5% of the activity on the site) who seriously oppose this, your protestations of "THIS WILL BE SOOOO EASY" to the contrary. Because for many reasons (some technical, some ideological) this is not easy.
You see, I'm not dumb. I don't have problems logging in to any other system on the net. Years ago I had a disastrous experience with Yahoo and turned to other large, single-sign-on types of services instead (had my hotmail account since they opened, had my google account since I was lucky enough to get one of the early invites, etc. etc.) I have never - and I mean NEVER - had any issues with those services. Password recovery is a simple process provided you've included an alternate email account. I'm still not sure why 4 failed logins to Yahoo over the course of several hours - none of which were actually based on user error - would cause an account to be de-activated. It's not as though what I was doing in any way resembled a bot that was trying to hack the system.
So now I'll sit here for 9 days, waiting for the Flickr folks to get back to me about whether or not they can un-merge my Yahoo account from my login. And that saddens me - that now I have tarred Flickr with the same brush as Yahoo, simply because Yahoo f*cked up my account.
My only hope is that Flickr somehow has pull with Yahoo in terms of account recovery, since it's obvious that Yahoo is not in the business of helping people with their accounts.
[end soliloquy]
--Megan/librarygrrrl
www.flickr.com/photos/librarygrrrl
edited to add contact info.
Posted 65 months ago.
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To answer the question posed by otherthings, webmink and omnia among others, about the chances of your Flickr account deleted due to a problem with your Yahoo! ID: this does not happen and will not in the future. To the best of my knowledge, Yahoo! does not generally delete accounts[1], but it does suspend or de-activate them.
In that case, you might be temporarily prevented from logging in to Flickr, but this is something that we can fixed (and have fixed in the past). It does happen, but to put it in perspective, we've only seen a few dozen cases (out of nearly six million Yahoo! based accounts). As noted before, we are buildnig a tool that will allow you to switch which Yahoo! ID your Flickr account is associated with as well.
I've updated the relevant existing FAQ (which applies when *you* delete your own account - that's a different case, since we have to actually delete when people ask us to) and I've also added another item to the FAQ covering your question more specifically.
[1] Yahoo! accounts might be deleted in extreme cases, such as where there are legal issues which require deletion, but I'm not sure about that (I will find out though). In those cases, there would be multiple human reviews before deletion.
Note that we *do* delete Flickr accounts in cases of spamming, repeated violation of the community guidelines (after warnings), or illegal activity. This deletion is independent of the associated Yahoo! ID, although we will pass the decision on when appropriate.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Stewart (staff) edited this topic 65 months ago.
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Don't you know that every time a bourgeois internet user whines about a login method, God takes a protein cookie away from a war refugee? Please stop.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I'm one of the Yahoo haters, for reasons given by others as well as myself elsewhere. But here is what really sticks in my craw: Where does Flickr/Yahoo! get off telling me that I have to subscribe to a service I do not want in order to keep using a service I HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR? At least wait until my pro account expires and then make me do it. In my case, that's May 11, 2008. OR... give me my money back.
One of those would be fine.
Oh, and by the way, when I bought the Pro account, one of the promises was that my photos would never be deleted. It's on the signup page (http://www.flickr.com/upgrade/) and in the FAQ (http://www.flickr.com/help/limits/#73). Now I hear that if I lose this perfectly benign Yahoo! account my photos will be deleted? This is not what I was promised!
So forgive me if I hesitate. I don't like people and companies who don't keep their promises.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Sbmoot edited this topic 65 months ago.
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hitherto said: The Yahoo! login team have more resources than us to deal with failures and potential security issues.
but... who will be dealing with it if someone at flickr has a problem with their login? yahoo or flickr support? because - to put it mildly - it doesn't sound as if yahoo were much help when something goes wrong...
Posted 65 months ago.
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sbmoot ++
Posted 65 months ago.
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@Stewart
<3 <3 <3
Thank you thank you thank you. What you've just posted has completely addressed my (technical) concerns with using Yahoo IDs for Flickr.
Now I sit back and wait for assistance. But you know? I can do that with a lighter feeling in that pit of my stomach now. Flickr staff, thank you!
Posted 65 months ago.
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Stewart
I'm glad you've addressed the technical issue of deleted accounts. Could you now focus your mind on the moral and ethical issue of refunds to people who vehemently object to Yahoo having their personal information.
As I see it, you have two possible responses.
a) Yes, you can have a pro-rated refund
b) We don't care about you. We've got your money, and if you don't like it that's tough.
Which one is it?
Edit: Looks like there is a third option I forgot:
c) [silence] If we ignore the question repeatedly, it might go away.
Posted 65 months ago.
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podiluska edited this topic 65 months ago.
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Good question podiluska.
And we don't want to here "We have a firm no refunds policy", this is an issue not thought of then that was written.
Posted 65 months ago.
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who will be dealing with it if someone at flickr has a problem with their login? yahoo or flickr support? because - to put it mildly - it doesn't sound as if yahoo were much help when something goes wrong...
Flickr! We've stated previously in this topic that if anyone has issues with their Y! ID, please drop us a line via Help by Email and we'll try to get you sorted out.
Posted 65 months ago.
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thanks heather - that's reassuring.
Posted 65 months ago.
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I'm worried about this. I've already lost two Yahoo ids and my attempts to recover them are stonewalled. One of these ids was for Yahoo photos so I'm especially concerned about this happening again.
These are the only logins I have ever been unable to recover in over a decade of heavy internet use. I'm not a scatterbrain but do have a tendency to over-engineer passwords (maybe because I'm a programmer) and unfortunately I trip myself up every now and again.
So, for neither of my Yahoo accounts can I remember the passwords and for some reason can't get past the identity confirmation 'help' screens (birthdate/postcode fields). This situation is probably my fault (I'm assuming I must have mistyped something during registration) but these things happen and it would only take a moment of human intervention from Yahoo to sort it out. I wouldn't even mind waiting.
Howver, all attempts to contact Yahoo for further help have been either ignored or I'm yet again directed to the id confirmation entry screen which I have already told them I've failed.
This is the root of my concern, there is no help beyond automated responses. No human interaction - despite my providing clear and concise evidence that these accounts are registered to my own email account. I could even answer the security question mandatory at registration if Yahoo would only ask me but they won't even ask (what's the point of it then?!)
Yahoo absolutely don't care. I'm just another failed login.
Posted 65 months ago.
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Stewart, your answer is a bit ambiguous, or i didn't understand it well.
I need to know what happens if someone at yahoo de-activate, suspend, make inactive, (or something else they do with accounts), then my flickr goes away too?
Posted 65 months ago.
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Consider us skeptics... We have not had the best experiences with Yahoo accounts (including lost e-mails, deleted contacts, even deleted accounts) besides the nowadays vague, yet totalitarian ToS.
What happens if we agree to the flickr ToS when we created our account but don't agree to the Yahoo ToS? Can we still keep the old ToS because we signed those and agree to them?
Posted 65 months ago.
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wow 13 pages and counting... is there a tool in the works to download the original files from flickr?
Posted 65 months ago.
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way to go yahoo... con yourselves into a better looking internet service... don't you just wish you were google..
WHY DID YOU EVER MERGE THE TWO.. IT WAS STUPID. MY FLICKR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YAHOO.. and now i won't be having a flickr anymore thanks to your stupid moves.
BS reason if you ask me.. force me to get a yahoo account when i don't want one... probably auto sign me up for some other BS without even telling me.. great...
sorry flickr.. but you don't dis your oldest friends. I'll be looking for another photo hosting site.. one that also enables you to upload photos larger than 10 megs. it's sad how much flickr could do if it wanted to, and how much it doesn't, (cough yahoo cough) i mean when was the last time you guys released a creative new feature? don't ignore your users.. they're asking for things and you know it.
Posted 65 months ago.
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