|
.......and what about a few more pictures of womens breasts ?
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Ok first of all:
-> Born and raised in the USA, definitely not classifiable as a Christian nation, but rather a post-modern humanistic society by and large.
-> Not Muslim, not Arab - just a white girl with ancestors from a bunch of different countries; also of the Christian faith and having a personal relationship with God.
-> Views public nudity as indecent and innapropriate (whether "art" or otherwise). Also objects to gratuitous violence, foul language, and drug use (mentioned since people have complained that nudity is the only thing people are objecting to)
-> Does not think everyone on flickr has to agree, nor does everyone have to abide by my personal views/beliefs/etc.
-> Does not appreciate frayed's comment seeming to speak for all of the western world (yes, I saw your little disclaimer sentence at the end, but even still the claim that *everyone* in the west sees everything as a gray area is completely untrue)
-> Has stumbled across by accident many photos which would be classified as "mature material" here in the US and if in a magazine would only be sold to people over the age of 18.
All said to clarify the fact that even though the majority of posters here may be arab muslims, there are people who are not and would love to have the option to "turn off" the types of photos that would be deemed "mature." I happen to be in the extreme minority in this thread as such, obviously... but it doesn't change the fact that no matter how hard some users have found it to be to stumble across something classifiable as pornographic in their eyes there are others who have stumbled across it many times without meaning or wanting to - myself included. The addition of a filter option may not make the site completely "safe" but I would feel a lot more comfortable exploring other's photostreams and flickr in general if I knew that on the whole, certain types of images were being blocked from my personal view. That's why I think it would improve flickr - because right now, I'm extremely hesitiant to add anyone to my contacts, for the most part I stay within a small group of people which I've found to be "safe" and I hardly ever click on someone's favorites anymore. If the option to have a "mature" filter on flickr existed, I would employ it most def. and would feel much freer to explore other's photos without feeling as much trepidation that I'll come across those types of photos. Not only that, but it would give me the confidence to invite my family members knowing they could just turn it on and "protect themselves" for the most part from those types of photos as well.
And Chalk, if you are that desirous of photos of nude women, there are *countless* websites where you can satisfy your sexual cravings without making flickr one of them.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
formerly TaGurit,
read this:
flickr.com/get_the_most.gne#secure
so, there are options here to make it "safe"... i recommend you create a new group( flickr.com/groups_create.gne ) or search for a group that shares your point of view with the mature thing.
greetings
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
niezwyciezony:
Those options are for personal "safety" and privacy when it comes to your own photos; nothing to do with the matter at hand.
And yes, I belong to several groups that are not for "mature" material... that completely misses the point. I mean by that, my point was having a filter would "open up" so much more of flickr and enable people to explore it on a much greater scale without having to constantly be worried that they'll come across photos of that type. IMO anything that enables people to explore flickr and the talented photogs on here on a greater scale is a great thing. Right now, most people say either "unplug and go home," "stay in a private group, only talk to a few people, don't reach out or make contacts or explore because you take a risk" or "deal with it and move on." Currently, I do some combination of the latter 2 - I belong to a great number of groups that I know do not include photos of objectionable material, and I have a small contact list of people I've found over time to be "safe" (for lack of a better term) - and if I find a photograph that I find offensive, I flag it and clear my internet history on my browser... but this filter idea is a better option IMO than any of the things I mentioned. And it caters to a great number of people who don't want to see that, without hampering the experience of those who do.
cheers.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
YAA 3ARAB 3AYBENKM CHEEH IL AJAANEB YE6ANZOON 3ALAAIKM... SHAWAHTO SM3ATNA YA JMAA3A.. SAWAITOONA L3BEH FE 7LOOJHM 3AIB 3ALAIKM WALLAH
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
God....Im really sick of this!
Some members are really giving a bad impression....and this thread is leading us to NOWHERE
And plz dont talk about our gov...what does it has to do with this??????
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
well first of all....im really surprised that this debate is been taken to the direction of East and West culture?!?!?
Yeah these cultures have difference and may have similarities but judging them from one presprective and considering one to be better or superior to the other is not right. Cultures can not be judged... neither can they be forced on others. Cultures must be respected....as my International Marketing lecturer once told me: "never talk about other's religion, politics, or culture. You will always be wrong".
As for the debate's topic, I think the best solution is the filtering option. That way it would be fair for both groups, people who are offended by nudity and for those who consider it as an art.
finally it would be really sad if Flickr gets banned in my country (yeah im from the UAE). Things could have been solved easier without rushing to our ISP..... Man the whole internet has either good or bad stuff, its up to the person using it to choose what he/she wants to see.
Anyways lets wait and see what happens.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Please,
STOP nudity & pornography in flickr
Because, it’s a public website
STOP nudity & pornography in flickr
Because, it’s a public website
STOP nudity & pornography in flickr
Because, it’s a public website
THANKS
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I've always found that repeating myself loudly is a sound way of gently pursuading others to consider my point of view. Thank you for your contribution, Thursd@y.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Thursday, you don't help your cause by posting such daft things.
Repetition doesn't make your case any better. Try reason, if you have nothing to add. Don't keep posting these childish posts, they are just irritating.
And because flickr is a public place, people can do what they like here. Unless, of course, it is against the TOS. Pornography is against it and is dealt with accordingly by the Admins.
Nudity isn't, as it is generally acceptable in the culture of most of the world (in a non sexual sense only) and particularly that in which this site is based.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
yeah Thursday...
Your concerned about people who give a bad reputation to the UAE...and what are you doing???? what do you think about your childish posts????
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
THIS IS LEADING NOWHERE :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
nothing wrong with my posts!
STOP nudity & pornography in flickr
Because, it’s a public website
in general
it's not my case
just in my view
as a subject against Nudity
here is my opinion
am against it
that's all
am not only talking about the UAE but, also, in general
thanks
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Khaldoon>>>> i guess etarf el 7adeeth elly yegool man ra2a mnkum munkaran... u know el takmelah....
allah yehdeek bs w ye9le7 balek enshallah....w i dont care etha el bageen ma yefhemoon cz law ana remast mn elyom elain bacher they wont understand..bs enteh..!!!!!!! laish mwa6en aw laish muslem.. madry!!!!
yebalek droos zeyadeh fil deen wel 6o3 bro..!!!
tc bye..no use of me from posting here...bs wallah batchoofoon sho basawy!!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I am not posting this post so you think i am aganist any one of you. I am here to talk in a logic way. Please people think twice before typing a word. This is a thred which was opened to start a structured discussion. Discussion is defined in the dictionary as an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic "Source:dictionary.com". So see people it is an interactive communication between two parties. You listen before you reply and understand what are you listening to. You weigh your words, you speak it to yourself and see if you would like to hear those words from others. At this point you start talking. A constructive discussion is to have your time in listening as you have your time in speaking and giving others chance to discuss each point with you. This is how you build a constructive discussion. I see that this discussion is going no where because some of the people is taking it out of the path it was started from. Please fellows think twice, I feel very sorry when i realized where this discussion reached. You went million time out of the topic it is all because you just argue about the little things while there are more important thing needed to be discussed. This how you lost your role in the debate, discussing the little things that shouldnt be discussed and forget the main subject we are discussing.
So Please people reconsider your words, we are trying to solve the problem in a peacful way. No need to shout at each other and have little debates that we dont need to discuss it right now. If you really want to represent your country and your religion in a good way, now it is the time to do so. Listen before you speak. A good listener is a good speaker. Repeating yourself is not a way, it is like going into endless circle. Debate and discuss your point of view wht dont you like list the reason. Dont fight, you wont reach a point nor step forward with this way.
PLease people read my words carefully. I am feeling very sorry for you all. i didnt want this discussion to be full of hatred. So reconsider your words plz.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Dovaneh:
well said
I appreciate that
It does make sense
thanks
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Sha3 calm down sweetie :)
Dovaneh thank you :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I think the problem is that one group of people form their lifes according to their believe (which is ONE believe) and that the other group live their lifes according to their free belives (which are many believes). As Flickr hasn't converted to ANY believe, we are all here to just be nice to each other. So, lets quit!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Thanks to nicolai_g and formerly TaGurit for well-written, thoughtful posts. TaGurit is noteworthy in that she represents a point of view that has a lot of adherents in the U.S., but not in this thread--Western Christians who share observant Muslims' reasoning on the desirability of nudity and porn. (Her definition of "nudity" differs from those who consider the showing of head-hair indecent, but her reasoning is the same.)
Also, thank-you to all of the Emeratis who have made real efforts to make their conversation mild and transparent to non-Arabic-speakers. Most of all, thank you for listening to each other. That is the key to any worthwhile conversation.
This thread has held my attention long after I would have stopped reading any other thread of this length. I'm learning a great deal about the UAE, its culture and its religion. Yes, even its politics, at least insofar as they have to do with Internet access and site-blocking. All of these are central to the identity of Emeratis, and I understand them better thanks to the thoughtful posts of its citizens.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Smokeyproggg, this thread is already long enough.. don't you think? Why not cease using it as a chat room with messages just directed to one user unrelated to the topic at hand? At the very least you could condense all the messages into one post instead of making back to back posts.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
You and Dark Angel both keep making many posts back to back when you could just simply condense them all into one post rather than 3 or 4 posts within 3 minutes of each other. it is VERY annoying. I'm sure i'm not the only one annoyed by it either. The thread is hard to keep up with as it is, we don't need anything to make it harder.
If you care how she did on her Java exam then you could PM her.. could you not? Or you could have asked her at the bottom of the previous post you made around the same time.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
It's been said before, but the problem with censorship is that if you agree to it, you have to understand you are inherently censoring yourself. Muslims find photographs of nudes offensive and want them to be removed or highly regulated. That is what they feel and want their wishes to be respected. Personally, I disagree, but understand that to be a difference in opinion.
Now, purely hypothetically, let's say we have someone who is offended by pictures of Muslims. Yes, it sounds crazy, but we've already decided that we need to respect other people's cultures and ideas, so we have to accept their beliefs to be equally valid regardless of what we may think the sanity of the person to be.
Now, would the person who started this thread, and their supporters be willing to make all the photos of them, their friends, and anyone else random that happened to be in their photostreams private to satisfy this hypothetical person's wishes?
If the answer is "No," then you cannot support the removal of nudity from public threads. Rules like this cut both ways and unless you're willing to accept that, you can't really make a valid point.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I have no problem with nudity, I love nudity BUT I live in Kuwait and would hate to see flickr banned by my ISP because it contains nudity. Thats why I would rather flickr contained no nudity at all, just so that it doesnt get banned locally..
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Smokeyproggg Thanks for asking my exam was ok ..
Am here if anyone wants to tell me something :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
The problem with no nudity is how to implement it. There are hundred of thousands of photos a day. And, yes, as mentioned QA techniques allow a small sampling to speak for a larger batch. So, what that in effect is proposing that people look at 5-10 random photos of a person's stream and decide whether or not to condemn their photostream.
The only feasible way to do it on this scale is community-based. Ironically, that means that people who are against it would have to volunteer to track it down.
It's a very hard problem to solve on this scale. Unless you are willing to become an active part of the solution, it will not and even cannot be solved. Perhaps if you wanted to pay several 100 dollars a years to support the staff to attempt to tackle the problem. Anything less is a bust.
An interesting idea would be filtering groups. You subscribe to the group and no longer see photos that any group member has marked as offensive. It'd basically be the photopool/set implementation run backwards. Still, probably be a big pain to implement but a possible solution.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
miskan I agree with what you said .. This place is amazing :) and we wouldn't want it to be banned because of such things ..
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Special is there a problem ??
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
An interesting idea would be filtering groups. You subscribe to the group and no longer see photos that any group member has marked as offensive. It'd basically be the photopool/set implementation run backwards. Still, probably be a big pain to implement but a possible solution.
^^ I agree with this :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
shu esalfeh :S walla twny 7adrh ha el mwg3 ,,,, w tawa mn thwany mshtrkh feeh,,,,, w hatha awal mw'9o03 :S shfth jdamy ,,,,
bs bdesh 3r'9 w bgoolkm ana m3aar'6h b3d :P ma7b hay e6effaseh ly ma shftha :S w ma aba ashoofha mn 7ad :S ,,,, mno hatha elly y76 hay e9war ??? hdoony 3leeh 7aram la a7sh ryoolh >.< 7ash
awny 3ad
nice to meet u guys ^.^
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
o_O ENGLISH NOT ALL UNDERSTAND ARABIC ..
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
awnh :S ,, w leesh ma y3rfo0n ,,, knt 5abrh ha esite 3rby :S
nzain ana ma3rf engleezy shu el 7al weyahm ?
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Smokeyproggg yes :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Thank you :)
Sorry i g2g run now ... good night if there is an urgent matter send me a PM and ill reply as soon as i can .. Thank you all :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
:( shu haaaa
maba
bye all
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
message!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Good Night
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
PM = private mail
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Thursd@y its ur turn now ...
I gotta run bye :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I think squarewithin has a good idea, but rather than applying it to a group, apply it to contacts. So for example, I have striatic as a contact (who doesn't?) and I trust his sensibilities so I elect to subscribe to his filter list. Now when striatic goes browsing through George's photostream and becomes offended by her ray guns and puts her on his filtered list, she automatically gets put onto my filter list too.
So now it's not just me personally adding bad content to my filter by having to discover it myself. I get the benefit of having my trusted contacts add to my filter as they discover it too.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I like that too, particularly because it could help to avoid some of the cultural collisions that are described in this thread.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Mr. Chalk wrote: ----------------
......and what about a few more pictures of womens breasts ?
---------------- Hey, I tried in this largely pointless discussion started by some pubertile UAE girlies suffering from exam stress, but got censored by an admin who did not appreciate True Art ! :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I like squarewithin's idea as well, and it seems to be quite similar in concept to what I suggested four months ago...
www.flickr.com/forums/ideas/4119/20795/
and
www.flickr.com/forums/ideas/4119/21016/
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I'm against it..
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Living in Kuwait and dealing with the internet censorship on a regular basis I can tell you it is arbitary.
One site that was banned to us in Kuwait recently was www.binarybonsai.com. I am not sure if it is from the pin up girl that he has on his header, or they just dont want us learning good design themes for Wordpress. Or maybe have something against people from Denmark.. I am still waiting for a responce from them.
Also when I was in Dubai just last September they had Orkut.com banned too, and there wasn't any nudity on that site either, just people coming together and forming a socail network.
Today we are saying its nudity that may cause Flickr to be banned, but tomorrow they could decide to ban it cause males and females are interacting together. Or that we are learning ideas and thoughts that the current regime might find "dangerous". Which just makes it more sweeter to get.
Kuwait's government has lost its war on censorship and it knows it. They can censor movies in the movie theaters, but you can buy the pirated copy in the street uncut just outside it; or go home to your satelite TV and watch that same movie on there; or just download it from BitTorrent, or order it from Amazon. The possibilities for us to access it are just endless now.
This is the new age of communication where we are not tied down to one medium. Yet governments' in this region still think they have control and power over what we have access to and the sooner they figure that out the quicker we can get on with our lives.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
i honestly havent read all the comments after i last commented.. and i am TIRED of this discussion .. all i have to say is that if etisalat blocks flickr.. im gonna start up a strike with large boards and march around etisalat.. who wants to join?
FLICKR IS MY SANCTUARY.. I CANNOT SEE IT BLOCKED!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Sadly it's often the case that reasonable voices are drowned out by shouts of intolerance. There are evidently some who were never taught as children that screaming 'I want' is unlikely to make you many friends.
The sinister aspect to this thread is that we may lose many great, responsible photographers from the UAE because a small minority decided to start a witchhunt.
Our discussions are irrelevant, because the bigots have already put the wheels of censorship in motion by asking Etisalat for a blanket ban.
-snip- rest edited due to nudity thread fatigue
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
To be honest teotwawki, last week or so, while flickring I suddenly ran into some photos which wheren't offending me but I did not want to see my +13 year old children either (pr0n that showed a gay couple giving eachother a blowjob, rimming and whatever). In order to mark them as 'may offend' I had to click the photopage thus showing me the mediumsized photo. I'm able to scroll really fast but that did not prevent me from seeing that photo.
purplette*, I'd join your strike but with my naked Rapunzelhair I doubt I'd get anywhere near Etilasat.
I think the consequences of nudity on Flickr where clear on page 1. The staff told us they are working on a "18+"filter. George said she likes the option given by squarewithin (and GG).
Everything else added to thid thread is just this thread repeating itself.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Yea, i'm tired of it too, when the filter comes, i will be one of the first to sign up 18+ and be happy not offending kids or groups not wanting to see anything like nudity. Till then it's up to us all to take it more *easy* --> 
;)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
we are all naked. all the time. no matter what you may think, or choose to believe, you are naked too.
enjoy it.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
purplette* wrote: ----------------
FLICKR IS MY SANCTUARY.. I CANNOT SEE IT BLOCKED!
---------------- I still don't see what the problem is. Use a program such as Proxyrama (Google for it) to find an anonymous proxy somewhere, which is not blocked by the UAE ISP and get your Flickr fix. If the proxy gets blocked use another one. Proxyrama will find and verify thousands in a few minutes.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Only photographs of good looking and preferably cute girls should be allowed. Ugly people shouldn't be allowed on Flickr. Period, no compromises.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
against !!
against !!
against !!
against !!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Cute Me, that's kind of suggestive. I think I'm offended.
edit:
Seriously though, you could have tried debating the topic instead of just coming in with an outburst like that.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
I just found a funny picture showing the situation of the discussion here:
flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=3414415&size=l
left person doesnt care so much and laughs
right person does care and wants to hide the (assumingly accidental) little bit of nudity that just occured... this is funny, not nudity in case of porn.
I took a good laugh, just like the person on the left.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
niezwyciezony:
Well, left person (Tara Reid) does care, but didn't notice. She later asked the photographers to please please not publish that ;)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
who is tara reid? i didn't know... well, some people take it too seriously. I'm off, finally.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Actress person with a bad boob job.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
woah
O_O what ARE we discussing again?
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
niezwyciezony, you did a great job posting that picture. Its very funny and we all went off topic! Thank You!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
More Chicks
Say No to Salad !
;-)
and
FREE AUSTRALIA
;-)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Well, if you call TV-presenters Chicks, then please no more chicks! But if you mean Australia should be free, right on!!! FREE AUSTRALIA!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I came to the Flickr Help forum and selected this recent and very active thread because I was hoping to learn how to retain membership in the community without being constantly assaulted by pornography. Please notice that I specify pornography rather than nudity.
I think the discussants are missing a key point -- follow the money. Pornographers see Flickr as a great open market and Flickr was started to make money. While the discussants might enjoy considering the logic of censorship, it will be certain key people who decide what is allowable and what controls, if any, are in place.
An example of what I mean by assaulted: I joined the Faces pool because I enjoy looking at portraits. Someone posts a picture of a nude man. Yes, you can see the face in profile ...and an effect was added to the picture so that the body is chopped into thirds, accentunating that it is the display of a nude body rather than only the person's face.
After some thought, I marked it as offensive. If I had seen the photo in another context I would have been more likely to admire the photographer's skill and would have been less offended by it. The photograph offended me because of the insistence that I view the proffered image despite the grouping / filtering that I had chosen. So, did the nudity offend me? No. Certainly, other images broadcasted on Flickr have been more offensive. It was the photographer, and what I perceived to be the intent of the posting, that offended me.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Life is so cruel. Other people don't live up to your standards. This is a gigantic nonissue as far as I am concerned. If you don't like looking at nudes - DONT LOOK. If you like looking at nudes - LOOK. The key issue is that YOU SHOULD MAKE THE DECISION. Just you - not some system admin or government censor. I take full responsibility for what I see and read.
As for those unfortunate souls that live in countries that feel a crushing need to control what their citizens see and read, both on and off the internet, you have a problem. However, it is YOUR problem! It will not be solved by the free adopting the standards of the unfree. It will only be solved when you become free as well.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
i dont care about free australia, i just want free breasts on free internet.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
JDB99, you are right. With due respect for parents with underage children and muslims: Mostly you only find offensive, pornographic pictures if you are looking for it. If you find them by the way just click on to the next picture!
And Mr. Chalk, go and look for them!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
It's the thread that just... wont... die... like a monster in a B movie...
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
stop posting to it and the thread will stop teotwawki
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
As a free person, in a free society, I have a right to look at whatever I want (within legal limits). Just because it offends some, does not mean that it needs to be controlled or restricted. Why is it the minority always wants the majority to bend to their will? I could care less if you are muslim, chrsitian or simply a prude, nudity is a perfectly natural creation, but if it does offend you, you have a simple choice: stay and don't look, or leave.
In fact, I might suggest, as a cultural/religious experiment, that the muslims, christians and prudes all get together and start their own foto sharing web site where they can tell everyone what is and is not allowed. At least it will give you something constructive to do (besides irritating us freedom of choice users), and even better, the rest of us can go on about our business of looking at nice pictures or naked people.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Actually this thread HAS died. The few who are keeping it alive is mostly from the West. In case you have not noticed, the majority of the people from the UAE have left. But the issue is not dead, although it is winding down. Instead, the debate is now continuing on private threads and Westerners are pretty much excluded.
Here is the status, the way I understand it. Etisalat (the UAE’s ISP) has been informed. They have decided not to block Flickr, instead they will now block individual photos and threads considered offensive by their standards. From a certain perspective, Striatic’s suggestion is been taken up, and they will do the “necessary” filtering.
At the same time, and this is an interpretation – not a fact, I do not get the impression that this is over. Now Flickr is in the limelight over there, and will be closely watched. The eventual outcome of this is yet to be determined.
Now a few remarks about where this has taken us.
In the West we are used to the separation of church and state, and we take the freedom to criticize these institutions (even our countries) for granted. This is not the case everywhere else. By failing to understand this, some of us have grossly offended those who do not share (or understand) our views.
Of course, the same can be said for the other side. Quite a few posters from the Middle East have also offended people in the West by statements like “GOD help US from these sinners”.
But since the people of the West so often consider their point of view superior, and because we are economically stronger than the people from the Middle East, the onus is on us to convey our beliefs and perspectives with care. Even in the West we have a saying that one can win an argument but lose the battle.
In this case, I am afraid this might have happened to a large degree. The situation is not hopeless, but in future if we might want to watch what we say and how we say it. The alternative is what has happened now, that people divide into groups and largely avoid each other – which is exactly what Flickr is not about.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
In the West we are used to the separation of church and state, and we take the freedom to criticize these institutions (even our countries) for granted. This is not the case everywhere else. By failing to understand this, some of us have grossly offended those who do not share (or understand) our views.
Most definitely not the issue. No one has for a minute proposed that people from the UAE should accept nudity or alter their behaviour to 'western' norms. If you believe otherwise then I think you have misinterpreted.
Some users from the UAE have NOT extended the same courtesy to 'us sinners', and have demanded 'Flickr will conform to our values, or we will prohibit it'.
The strongest view that has been conveyed to the more extreme posters from the UAE is that they cannot and should not expect our community to bend to their whims, no matter how much they threaten and bang their fists.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I happen to be quite offended as an artist/sculptor with the idea of censorship re : naked adults . I feel the compartmentalisation and some of the controls on flickr are relatively good - it allows people to create some personal zone, limits, on who sees what , and to roam about amongst others vision- which is often very wonderful . I however have some reservations with special "adult" zones or notices being created for material that is likely to provoke by reason of sexual implication. There is a problem : I think this so easily could give way to emotionally immature and culturally repressive thinking . It can lead to a certain social or religious facscism of approach where all too often forms of intolerance are expressed as others "sensitivities" instead of the inability to walk away , or look away , and switch off . Go to another compartment. This site upholds the traditions of Western democracy broadly. I do not wish to offend others but I find the repression of certain freedoms also offensive since my thinking and feeling is not dominated either by state tyrrany or by religious monopoly of view. I dont want peoples consciousness controlled, but OPENED to gain more humanity.
And , look that's possible :
I have seen terrific photo's here of naked people - one photographer is clearly so good with his subjects that what is expressed from them in their nakedness is a relaxed inner ease - that is truly truly beautiful to see as well as their form - which is breathtaking. No doubt some people will see those photo's as purely sexual stimulus - so what - its just part of what's possible. But if they are trained and shaped to see it as automatically "offensive" - then they would be missing what is more deeply and humanly there.
Equally I have seen semi-pornographic photos here - that see nakedness in terms of a cold humanless exchange. What does this teach me as an artist and human ? That it is possible to be amongst virtual presences and see both the good and ill of the world . I'll take it all - its part of us . I'll take the warmth of true nakedness beauty and sexuality - from which we are all made and differntiate it from the soul-less lostness of porno-alienation that the human condition sadly stretches into - Its all part of us and mature growth is possible by exposure to all parts of the human spectrum.
Art and the depths of empathy and compassion comes from the blood of such exposure and how it makes one feel.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
get over it.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Actually this thread HAS died. The few who are keeping it alive is mostly from the West. In case you have not noticed, the majority of the people from the UAE have left. But the issue is not dead, although it is winding down. Instead, the debate is now continuing on private threads and Westerners are pretty much excluded.
Dear Jan Tik ~> I am with you that the people who are making this thread alive are people from the West. We left because as an each individual discussed what can be discussed and as myself got satisfied by what Flickr suggested about the 18+, so I left at that point. I didn’t want to get further with this issue. I came to discuss my point of view; I felt that I have been heard by Flickr staff they have suggested something that satisfies me enough and I left the debate. I am with you about the private threads and people over here moved the discussion between themselves over there about the ISP and all the issue that previously was discussed over here. But I myself don’t see it is a necessary thing to be done because I got a word from the staff in here so why go and discuss things over there I know myself I will be going in a circle that doesn’t have an end. My concern was said in here and I got the answer to it. So finito and to me it is fair enough.
Here is the status, the way I understand it. Etisalat (the UAE’s ISP) has been informed. They have decided not to block Flickr; instead they will now block individual photos and threads considered offensive by their standards. From a certain perspective, Striatic’s suggestion is been taken up, and they will do the “necessary” filtering.
I had an idea about the filtering system Etisalat is doing through the net and I knew it from the beginning that it can’t be possible blocking the whole website because many are benefiting. When we had this discussion in the beginning I checked the tags in Flickr. I typed “erotic” in the tags search field to check what will appear to me and what I got was the blocked by Etisalat page. So I got the hint that this rule will be applied to the rest of the website by filtering all the words that Etisalat thinks it is offensive to our religion and believes and leaves the rest as it is. Piece of cake! And that how you mentioned it earlier.
In the West we are used to the separation of church and state, and we take the freedom to criticize these institutions (even our countries) for granted. This is not the case everywhere else. By failing to understand this, some of us have grossly offended those who do not share (or understand) our views.
Of course, the same can be said for the other side. Quite a few posters from the Middle East have also offended people in the West by statements like “GOD help US from these sinners”.
To make it clear, we have this freedom over here too. We can criticize for the good sake of the country by pointing out what we think is not working well in 1 of the institutions. Islam is a way to advice. Our religion taught is to do that. I hope no1 failed to understand the other party and no1 offended any one else. Flickr is like a small world every1 is a neighbor hood of the other and trying to live in peace. I know each has his own believes and ideas but no way any can force the other party to believe according to his believes and to force him to think his way. I apology if in any of my posts I have offended any of the Westerners in here and if it was understood from my words the statement I am ashamed of “GOD help US from these sinners” Islam is not like that, Islam taught us to respect all the other believes and religion and to live in peace with them. Islam is against enforcement. I know some ignorant Muslims made you believe “am not mentioning about any1 here” that Muslims are stubborn and they always stick to their point and force others to believe them. But take this word from me; Islam is so not like that, Islam is a religion of mercy and respecting. I am in here to represent what the real Islam is and what it is all about. I do that and accomplish it by living in peace with you all take what I think is benefiting me from all of the members here and just leave what wont benefit me. I would never look low at any other person. Allah is the judger when it comes to judgment we are humans we do bad things and good things. Allah is the only one who accept those things and who can judge whether we have done it right or wrong. I don’t have the right to call any other human being a sinner coz I am not supposed to. Allah is responsible for that not me. I repeat my apology for that dear and sorry for that.
In this case, I am afraid this might have happened to a large degree. The situation is not hopeless, but in future if we might want to watch what we say and how we say it. The alternative is what has happened now, that people divide into groups and largely avoid each other – which is exactly what Flickr is not about.
I clap for you and for the words you have typed in here. Flickr is one community which lives in peace and each member is learning and teaching others and vice versa. So there is no need to have any hatred within our hearts. We are all human beings who make mistakes and the right thing to do is learning from those mistakes. It is all about analyzing the problem and plan ways to go over it and learn at the same time. It is wrong to stop at my place with my problem closing my ears and being stubborn not to hear a word from others. This thing would take me nowhere and instead of minimizing the problem and dissolve it; I will be having a bigger problem that can not be solved forever.
I felt like I have to reply you and showed 1 Middle Eastern point of view about the whole issue.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
I am still here and i am from the UAE :)
Dovaneh .."Islam is not like that, Islam taught us to respect all the other believes and religion and to live in peace with them. Islam is against enforcement. I know some ignorant Muslims made you believe “am not mentioning about any1 here” that Muslims are stubborn and they always stick to their point and force others to believe them. But take this word from me; Islam is so not like that, Islam is a religion of mercy and respecting. I am in here to represent what the real Islam is and what it is all about. I do that and accomplish it by living in peace with you all take what I think is benefiting me from all of the members here and just leave what wont benefit me. I would never look low at any other person. Allah is the judger when it comes to judgment we are humans we do bad things and good things. Allah is the only one who accept those things and who can judge whether we have done it right or wrong. I don’t have the right to call any other human being a sinner coz I am not supposed to. Allah is responsible for that not me."
Thank you so much i respect you for what youve said :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Ðâ®k_AňgëL♥ ~> And i respect you too for the support and for being around :hugz:
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Thank you :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Thank you both Donaveh and Dark Angel. You represent the best of the debate from the Muslim world. I salute you for that!
I gotta run, hope this tread is closing down now. Perhaps we can start another thread at another time, maybe a group where reasonable people from both sides can meet and discuss these issues in a calm and reasoned fashion.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Yes thank you ... I gotta run too :) am so happy that finally things have settles after long discussion for 8 pgs finally i feel calmed and relaxed in posting a reply :)
Thank you all :)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Awww. Isn't this sweet! Hugz all 'round!
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
That's disgusting.
Look where they have their hands...
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
I'm offended by your use of the word "disgusting".
And "hands".
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
This one ought to satisfy everybody:
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
Hm. What's the first word that comes to mind? ;-)
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
this is not yet the longest thread in flcikr
can everytone please try a little harder to set a record.
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
I do not like looking at naked pictures of men. No offense to all the guys who post artistic nudes of males though.
Bye
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
|
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
|
It saddens me to see how few people understand the concept of Freedom, regardless of what continent they are from.
'nuff said
Posted 55 months ago.
( permalink
)
|
Feed – Subscribe to help discussion threads
|
Deutsch
|
English
|
Español
|
Français
|
