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first you give people feature that allow them to play with the date of posting and then flickr is surprised that everything collaps..pictures show or dont, appear after two days or not...complite mess...and it started to happen since that exact feature appeared...
Posted 52 months ago.
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Now at over three hours (and counting) and no updates to contact photos. None, zip, zero, zed.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Some have said something about using flickrivr to see their contacts postings.
I didn't see any more photos under the 'my contacts' thing there than I do here. Right now I just figure I'll catch up later, for the most part.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Oh I see that you must use the RSS feed link on the bottom of your contacts page...
a lightbulb has gone on..
until this darkness passes
a pretty good work-around along with the greasemonkey script provided by steffan
I don't like any of this.. but I will have to do it this way if I want to see my contacts new photos..
Posted 52 months ago.
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My views have dropped dramatically, old images are getting more views than new images, contacts have messaged me to ask if I'm ok because they haven't seen any new photos posted by me in their contacts page for ages and they haven't had comments from me in a while...
I'm concerned that the social network I've built is being eroded because not everyone is aware of this problem, and just assume people aren't bothering to visit their images any more.
It's very frustrating because we're not really being told what's going on. Some "initial code" is being tested sometime this week doesn't tell us much at all. What's the code to fix? If it's "initial code" does that mean it's only a step in fixing the issues and there's going to be more to come? How much more, and what sort of time frame?
I know Flickr staff are working on the problem, and I know that software fixes can be unpredictable things to implement...unexpected problems crop up and deadlines get blown out of the water.
But a bit more hand holding by Flickr staff would probably do a lot to ease the frustration and anger that's coming thru in this forum. And a site wide announcement so all users know what's going on would really help.
Posted 52 months ago.
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What? there is a flexible posting date feature ??
What..?? how is that possible??
You have been able to edit date in EXIF data for awhile I think..
I am spending too much time in this forum
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
Take a look at a typical comment I had yesterday:
"I looked through your photostream the other day and there's all kinds of photos that never showed up on my "contacts" page.
I often think of you and wonder..."Hmmm. I wonder why Shashamane hardly ever posts pictures on Flickr anymore?"
I guess I understand now. You are posting them, but they don't show up on my page.
This really sucks!!
I wish Flickr would hurry up and fix the problem.
I'll be back to leave some comments on the ones that I missed."
As we keep stressing, social networks are collapsing and the vast majority of people do not know why. Please, a Flickr wide announcement of acknowledgement of this bug!
Posted 52 months ago.
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Yeah, it's gotten really bad the past couple days. I have contacts who posted gobs of photos since the "5 recent" showing in my Contacts page. Very annoying, and I do hope it's fixed soon.
Posted 52 months ago.
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I ...I must....I must and would like to see my contact photos, I must and would like to see my contact photos, pretty please with a cherry on top? thanks...
PS.my contact photos dated from Feb..24&25th just appeared in my mainstream, when did we do a time travel?
Posted 52 months ago.
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och. relax, people! the social network one built up here, this so-called web2.0 thingy, should still work - even without a properly working contacts page, don't you think? i mean, as soon as everybody knows about the issue people will just click through the streams of people they are really interested in to manually get aware of new uploads. those who don't even do this certain one click are no very valuable friends, i guess. ;) kidding, of course, even if there's a hint of being serious '=)
anyway. i just clicked through the forum first time and am happy that flickr staffis working on it, that it is, in particular, even a side effect of working on improving some functions!
thanks flickr!
=)
Posted 52 months ago.
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I am one of the contributors to this thread who have been asking for a system wide announcement for months but unfortunately no one at Flickr HQ seems interested making the decision to go public. As a commercial enterprise backed by the financial clout of Yahoo I am shocked that the community that helped build the world wide reputation of Flickr are not being treated with the respect they deserve. The time has come to act and inform the millions of people who have no idea why their social network is folding
Flickr should explain....
What is wrong
How the bug manifests itself
What it will take to fix it
When it will be fixed.
How the Pro membership will be compensated
six months and no fix is way out of order !
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
But the sad thing is that so many people are not aware of this issue, hence the calls for an announcement. If they don't know they may continue to assume that all is working fine and friends are simply not posting. Check my above quote of a comment.
Posted 52 months ago.
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I may be just seeing a blip, but this looks like it is getting worse. The big problems (as revealed by the Steffen script) used to appear a page or two back, with no problems on page one.
Tonight I'm seeing four outdated pics on page 1.
Please tell me this is just a matter of things getting worse before they get better. We really appreciate all your efforts, those of you who are burning midnight oil on this!
Posted 52 months ago.
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From what I've experienced, outdated contact entries are only showing up on the "friends page" after a recent comment (~1 hours old) is made.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Anything other than an announcement to the membership is a side issue .
Posted 52 months ago.
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I've sent Flickr a list of friends & contacts that don't appear on my Contacts page when they upload new works
At the same time, considering this issue is breaking the interaction of the comunnity, I've decided to add this text in all the comments I'll post:
(this photo didn't appear on my Contacts page, Flickr is breaking the community)
Posted 52 months ago.
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[] bichito [] edited this topic 52 months ago.
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I've got a new set out old photos on my front page -- but seem to have ... actual updated photos on my contacts page?? *crosses fingers, knocks on wood, throws salt over shoulder*
Posted 52 months ago.
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Note that any contact that has been added in the last 48hrs has arbitrarialy been removed by the system. And it's been over a week that my contact update has been out of sync.
oh well...
Posted 52 months ago.
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The whole membership have a right to know whats happening and why service is falling apart
Posted 52 months ago.
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@monsieur_chat -- So they have! But I assume it's a database syncing issue, and they'll reappear (whoever they are -- I can't remember now!)
Posted 52 months ago.
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Yup, I'm seeing disappearing contacts too. :-(
Posted 52 months ago.
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Hey everyone-
For some of our longer term members you might recall when Flickr used to have to go offline on almost a weekly basis. We have been experiencing a growth pattern somewhat like that (well, actually a lot more. A hell of a lot more.). In that case, our developers put together a way to federate our system into database shards; this was a project that took several months, but once it happened, we no longer had to take Flickr down for frequent "massages". Dealing with the contact's issue is somewhat of a similar project for us. Flickr is one of the most complex websites you'll run into today. We take in three thousand to five thousand photos, each minute. Each and every one of those uploads has an implication to an account. Who gets to see it? Family? Friend? No one? Is it in a set? A group? A collection? Does it have tags? Each one of these represents a query and we have millions of database queries going on all the time. On top of that, we have notifications- should that upload generate a new message? Should it be part of a digest of them?
We absolutely understand the issues, and how it can be disruptive. We have a lot of contacts too- we post photos the same way; we aren't immune to this. We get it. But- here's one thing, this does not affect all Flickr members equally, and some members won't even see a problem; it affects our more active members. All the trial and error work we did last fall as the contacts problem was out there, simmering, just didn't cut the mustard. We started this new thread to announce that we were going to significantly rework it, and the intention was to have it started sooner. We are sorry that we could not start on it that quickly. That wasn't smoke and mirrors, or attempts to deceive anyone, or just blow it off. We had a significant issue that, believe it or not, was more important to address before this, (I linked to it in an update in the opening post)- a serious outage that the site went through during a database alter. The one where we had to take the site down, not once, but 2 times that weekend- something we did not have to do for a very long time. So, our operations guys had to address a number of issues related to that before we could turn our attention back more fully to the contacts problem, which we have done.
We are close to putting the new system of contacts to work, in fact, some of the code is going to our development server today. It's not ready to go yet though, we are sorry (our update yesterday, the 25th in the opening topic still holds to where we are with that). The current badness (today, Tuesday) is an extra heaping of contacts database lag which just makes the problem look worse, yes, we know about it- but we will solve it. Which leads to...
We've made some changes, today, that is for reducing the immediate contact cache issues that has built up for the last couple of days. The problem is that it's first effect is to essentially stop the update of your main page, but that will catch up as the lag is reduced on the back end.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Nice to get a more detailed explanation but I agree with everyone who says this needs an announcement. The ten people who added me yesterday might not be in the know and think I blocked them or something to remove me from their list. Thanks again for the info though.
Posted 52 months ago.
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ɖrew edited this topic 52 months ago.
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Thanks, Kevin!
Posted 52 months ago.
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I agree
an announcement please
please..
reason is people who just store photos here
think we are hallucinating
Posted 52 months ago.
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Yeah this is not the first time it has happened to me and I'm hugely frustrated by all of this.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thanks, Kevin, much appreciated. We all know you guys are working your butts off.
Posted 52 months ago.
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thanks Kevin
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thanks Kevin... Its great to hear that you are still working on it!
Posted 52 months ago.
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Whatever you did it seemed to have worked, my contacts page seems to be current with my contacts were merged with the RSS contact updates plus the ones I was missing from both.... hopefully this will be the end of the bugs?
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
Thanks for the update, Kevin. I've not yet noticed the fix mentioned above but I appreciate the news. This does seem to justify an announcement though.
Posted 52 months ago.
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ˎ edited this topic 52 months ago.
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sounds good kevin thanks for the update!
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thanks Kevin, we do appreciate you letting us know....but it is true that many do not know that this is even an issue
Please let them know we are not insane !! LOL
:~)
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thanks for the update Kevin!
Posted 52 months ago.
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Kevin, thanks, the long explanation is appreciated, but doesn't this seem generic enough (general enough) to warrant posting at least in Flickr news? I mean seeing a photo from October 2005! (I just realized) on your home page has to be something that effects not just active members. I understand the effect is not always equal, but this seems a worthy time to make some kind of warning to folks that things are not working right.
Posted 52 months ago.
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ok, Kevin... it's great to hear that your "more active members" are the suffering ones... you forgot one pertinent matter: we pay for the service and the service is, at this moment, uncontrolled
post edit: and of course, we don't need promises in this little island of the forum... we need, as clients, an official and wide explanation of the company
Posted 52 months ago.
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[] bichito [] edited this topic 52 months ago.
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I didn't notice this problem until the past few days. It's become chronic. What I don't understand is it wasn't broken (for me) until Flickr decided to fix it.
I wondered why the last 4 photos from any contacts were appearing on the front page and not on the link to "Photos From Your Contacts". I am seeing photographs show up in Explore or suddenly appear in a thread.. etc, that were actually posted days ago.
To Flickr Admin people -- if you aren't going to publish some sort of announcement, please give us the courtesy the problem is recognized and assure us it will be fixed. Further, give us a date it will be fixed instead of implying "we've aware of it and have been working on it for months."
I agree with most everything I've read from glowingtones. Facebook is looking better all the time to me.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Kevin: Thanks for the update. It is appreciated. But I'd like to add my voice to the others who are calling for a system-wide announcement. This is essential. There are still too many people who don't know what's going on.
Re: your comment that the bug affects some people more than others. You indicate that people who post frequently are most affected. This does not reflect my experience -- I had to cut back my posting dramatically last fall and I've been very badly affected since then.
Ironically, since I reduced my participation just around the time this bug manifested itself, I attributed the dramatic drop in feedback to the fact that I wasn't posting every day. It took me a couple of months and the discovery of this thread to figure out something else was going on.
There's no need for confusion like this to continue. Tell everyone what's going on. Believe me, they will appreciate you being forthright about the problem and much more accommodating about the situation.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thanks Kevin for the update , but i agree we need a Flickr announcement of the problem most of us are suffering . I hope you consider the suggestion.
Thanks again
Posted 52 months ago.
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I really really keep my fingers crossed that this works out and nothing bad will happen to all our photos, and comments, and all the rest.
Good luck, Kevin and the rest of the flickr staff.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thanks for the update Kevin.
I saw a bug related to new photos from contacts. :) The strangest thing happened to-day: In the morning, I saw my friend's old photo on the contact's page. Then in the afternoon, I saw a new photo. At night, I saw the old photo. Yes, I did clear the browser's cache and reloaded the page.
How strange. Bye
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thank you Kevin and all of Flickr Staff for your help with this matter and hopefully it will work and things will be running smoothly soon. I for one remember the days of the "massages" and the circles that were posted for us to print off and then do as we liked and post our shots for a chance at a free flickr account--Things will get better as they always have before. Thanks again for the update.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Oh yes... the massages...at least things have improved since the old days :-)
Posted 52 months ago.
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Could this recent update be why when I try to invite contacts to a new group I created it tells me this:
Only people who call you a contact are shown below.
You don't have any contacts who aren't already in this group!
(I am the only member and I did invite about 8 people -- none of them seem to have gotten an invite from me, so I tried again and got the above message...)
Posted 52 months ago.
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Yes, I think it highly likely that this is the problem, snippets :-(
Posted 52 months ago.
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Hi
Just came in to report a couple of odd things that after a quick glance seem to be related to the problems being discussed here.
1. This evening I noticed in 'photos from your contacts' on my home page, a photo from my daughter's photostream. She hasn't uploaded anything for over a year and the photo was familiar to me. Checked it out and the dates hadn't been altered at all. She says she's not been on Flickr this week.
2. Just had two 'xxx has added you as a contact' mails. Both said 'yay xxx has added you as a contact too' but when I checked them out, I hadn't marked them as a contact at all. Wrong email.
I came here concerned about a glitch but hope it is because of the ongoing 'contacts' difficulties and not any kind of breach of my account. So this is just a report, in case it helps.
Posted 52 months ago.
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"give us the courtesy the problem is recognized and assure us it will be fixed. Further, give us a date it will be fixed instead of implying "we've aware of it and have been working on it for months."
Kevin just gave a rather lengthy explanation of what they're doing and what sort of time is involved. So obviously the problem is acknowledged, because staff just acknowledged it. And Staff has been updating the top of the forum every few days, the most recent from yesterday, giving as accurate a time range (sometime this week) as they can, depending how testing goes.
An explanation on the Blog or something might be helpful, but considering this isn't affecting everyone on Flickr equally, it could actually be more visible in the Help Forum, than anywhere else.
"Facebook is looking better all the time to me."
I'd read their Terms of Use carefully first. They basically lay claim to any image you post, to use as they want for eternity, for anything. So you're basically waiving copyright if you post to Facebook.
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
Hi, I just mis-read this line for a moment "She says she's not been on Flickr this week.", as "She says she's not keen on Flickr this week"!! :D I was about to concur! :))
Anyway, I think. 1. Many of us are experiencing this too, although I am not getting photos quite as old as that.
2. This has also been mentioned here, I guess it is related as it is another time lag thing.
Frustrating but I think you can rest assured your account is safe, it's just the bugs and glitches again.
Posted 52 months ago.
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...and of course you don't get full-size shots on Facebook. And there's the heavy set restrictions.
Posted 52 months ago.
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And, Auntie P, I agree with shashamane that this isn't your account being hacked. It's this confounded database problem.
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
"...more visible in the Help Forum than anywhere else"? I can't agree with that. Last week there was a Flickr-wide announcement re. "Flickr acting weirder than usual" which just about everyone saw. That is the most visible place for an announcement. OK, maybe not all are affected and those that are may be to varying degrees, but that does not take into account the probable thousands that are affected and unaware. Check the comment I quoted earlier. I think they ought to know. As mentioned, people would be accommodating as long as they know what's happening.
Posted 52 months ago.
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ˎ edited this topic 52 months ago.
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Oooh! My recent, disappeared contact has returned! Hurrah!
Posted 52 months ago.
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In recent days the situation has worsened for me.
Today I've 13 outdated photos on page 6, 11 outdated on page 5 and 15 outdated on page 4.
Also I've the problem of ɖrew, I have lost patience.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Stefania Maria Livraghi edited this topic 52 months ago.
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Kevin, thank you for the more detailed explanation, however, flickr members still need to be told of this problem. I have an explanation of what is going on under every photo I post. Countless people have thanked me for bringing it to their attention. Think of your customers as stock holders and start being accountable to us.
There is a universal mantra in this thread and it is: make an announcement to all flickr member about the problem. Might be a little hard to meditate on, but we are focused on getting the word out. It would only help to improve customer relations.
Michael and the Searcher...please do not respond to this comment as it is meant for Kevin or another staff member.
Posted 52 months ago.
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*Stefyria* - yes. Undoubtedly a severe case today.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Michael Smith edited this topic 52 months ago.
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Thanks, Kevin! Much appreciated! Easier now to be patient. :-)
And here I was about to post my own explanation of events:
"I believe they are in the process of productizing vertical models to morph extensible action-items. By incubating integrated portals, they will ultimately benchmark user-centric schemas and leverage out-of-the-box vortals." ;-)
Posted 52 months ago.
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labaronesa: tough. Welcome to the public help forum.
It isn't a universal mantra, it's a mantra by about six people. Just because you've said it about 100 times, doesn't mean you count as 100 different people (which isn't to say that you shouldn't keep at it. Demands for change are often a lonely struggle). And I don't disagree with it, really. The more things start going weird as this progresses, the more people are going to start coming to the forum with their issue, unaware it may be connected (and they already have been doing this.)
But generally, these things are handled by a top Hot Topic issue, which this now is. I've only seen sitewide announcements when there were catastrophic interruptions in service, so I'm not sure this gets up to that level or not.
Regardless, I just don't think as many people read the Blog or those site-wide announcements as you think. It may be good for PR for those of you wishing it so, but I just don't think it will get the word out any more than your photo posts and this forum.
Posted 52 months ago.
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frogmuseum: LOL. That's what I thought too! :-)
Posted 52 months ago.
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frogmuseum2 wrote
And here I was about to post my own explanation of events:
"I believe they are in the process of productizing vertical models to morph extensible action-items. By incubating integrated portals, they will ultimately benchmark user-centric schemas and leverage out-of-the-box vortals." ;-)
Oh sure -- give them more ideas!
(vortals aren't related to stoats, are they?)
Posted 52 months ago.
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It's probably best if we stay on-topic and refrain from asking others not to post.
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
searcher said: "labaronesa: tough. Welcome to the public help forum."
Why make this so hostile?
Considerably more than six people have called for this, I have repeated it several times because I believe it justifies it, and many others have themselves expressed the same thing. You're right, it's a public forum.
I take your point about catastrophic interruptions though, but still think a break with tradition could be made for this issue.
Posted 52 months ago.
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ˎ edited this topic 52 months ago.
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shashamane said: You're right, it's a public forum
That's great. It's just that Searcher and I don't like being told not to post. I don't think anyone is making this hostile.
EDIT: and I genuinely appreciate the work you and several others have done on bringing this to our attention. I can see, going back through the posts, that you were aware of this way before most of us.
Posted 52 months ago.
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*labaronesa*
Unfortunately there are a few contributors to this thread who don't recognise the millions of users who do not read the forum posts -
yes, they also have a right to know whats going on and an announcement to the whole community and not just this thread should be a matter of urgency
Posted 52 months ago.
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(vortals aren't related to stoats, are they?)
I'm not too clarified on that point -- but you know what happens when vortals get out of the cage! ;-)
Posted 52 months ago.
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Minutes ago, 220 from my first 20 pages of Contacs (480 photos) are outdated. It means, the 45.8%. Things are better, Flickr?
(I used the so called marvellous script from Firefox. Seems we're fixing a hole where the rain keeps getting in)
post edit: I reload my Contacts page, let's say, ten times per hour
Posted 52 months ago.
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[] bichito [] edited this topic 52 months ago.
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The contacts issue is, of course, a symptom of the horrendous scaling issues that have happened over the last few months.
Since this is affecting:
The Contacts page
The list of contacts
New group appearances
and even (perhaps) the privacy of Private photos, we are seeing problems that won't just be tied down to this one Forum thread. I'm not sure what the answer is, but so many of the queries we have seen lately relate to this matter that I think it may be time for something 0ff-Forum.
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
The "old" photos have now gone from my homepage, which is now back to the state it was earlier, with the most recent being 7 hours old, from a contact -who for some inexplicable reason, their photos DO actually always appear (I wish I knew their secret ;)) - and the rest many hours older still.
Posted 52 months ago.
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this is droll
I thought the RSS would fix it so I can see my contacts but it only shows a very limited amount of them. I guess i don't understand how to use it properly
I guess the only alternative is to either search by name or use the script that steffan wrote and search those red outlined boxes..
really should be a different situation but oh well..it isn't a perfect world
I'm going out to take some pictures instead of doing this..
which is sort of virtually beating my head on the floor..
e/e hawaii
Posted 52 months ago.
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read my last comment, the script doesn't go, the situation it's the same... a mess
Posted 52 months ago.
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[] bichito [] wrote
read my last comment, the script doesn't go, the situation it's the same... a mess
Perhaps the system just hasn't got to you yet? There are an awful lot of member accounts to sync -- I doubt it can all happen within minutes of Kevin's post.
Posted 52 months ago.
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bichito - Yup. Though this is an exceptionally bad day. Won't last forever :-)
Posted 52 months ago.
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says:
Just felt an earth tremor here! Someone's hammering the Flickr engine very hard! LOL
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thank you Kevin, for your explanation.
I have noticed some weirdness in the last month, today I realized it was worse than I thought. I also talked about that bellow my latest photo and just decided I will link this link there.
I agree Flickr should make an annoucement though.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Obviously, the need to respond to a comment directed at someone else eats at the very soul (?) of Michael and the Searcher. I was polite in saying "please" do not respond as I wasn't talking generally there. My feeling is that the two of you are here to try to pacify the rest of us...not really regular flickr members, You are also very rude....but that's just IMO.
If everyone posting here would ask the contacts whose photos they comment on to apprise other members of the problem, the word would get out. I know I have mentioned this in many of my comments in this thread, but if flickr won't do it, who else will, if not us?
And...the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Your courtesy is greatly appreciated, labaronesa. I am sorry that you find me rude, and I'm genuinely hurt and puzzled.
Posted 52 months ago.
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I am surprised to visit many friends/contacts and they don't mention the problems everyone is having, esp. when we all know they are having the same issues. Some might see things "different" and some might be in denial and want to pretend everything is okay. I had to tell a friend to continue to post pics - we might not see right away but better late than never. I hate to see anyone give up.
I continue to keep everyone apprised with my current pics - direct them to the forum and to steffens script, yet I am only one voice among thousands. Are people afraid to mention this? Just bury their heads in the sand???
Thank you, Kevin. Nice to hear from you. Please keep us apprised. And please post an ANNOUNCEMENT FOR EVERYONE soon!
Posted 52 months ago.
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I've been doing the same thing.....mentioning it in my posts and comments. I think many people just don't notice if they aren't very active. Also, with the emails not going through, I thought it was my own internet connection for several weeks.
Posted 52 months ago.
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vtpeacenik edited this topic 52 months ago.
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I am an active member on Flickr for 22 months by now.
The pages showing in my contact's photos - are 12, they stop somewhere, at the half of this time (22 months )
As I've already said, I use to have more than 400 contacts.
This morning I had 277 - right now I have 282 - and of course, I have no idea who the new ones are, except 2.
By the other hand, I had to remove some completely unknown "friends"
who suddenly appeared in my contacts pages.
Yes, they were listed as friends - without my accept or my knowledge.
I post this in Forum not for a certain explanation from Flickr staff, also not for speculations and replies from the same "helpful" team using verbs, nouns and mostly adjectives to make us understand how stupid we are to come here and claim some rights - but to get another proof that Flickr is far from being "the best photography site on internet" - as mentioned in Wikipedia .
I already mentioned , there is nothing personal between me and staff or anyone else here whom I don't know.
But - I cannot accept to be treated with disrespect, to be intimidated or insulted by anyone and especially by those who are payed from my money (management included ).
Whether it is &2 or &100, I am still a customer contributing to this huge business.
If staff is disturbed by some of our assertions here, they may reply themselves - I assume they are mature people trained to deal with customers.
Flickr was an excellent site before the arrival of I don't know how many millions Yahoo users obliged to keep their photos here.
I am sure it is a matter of money.
Whatever it is, most of us suffer from damages, some of them irreversible.
That is my public point of view and it is my right to express it here.
If there is someone to contradict me, this is staff or management.
This is a posting to prove I came here, I exposed my issues and explained my concerns.
I won't reply to any attack , period.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thanks Kevin for not only explaining the problem but posting it in the forum and not at the top of the page. That explains so much that the problem affects the more active member!! I wasn't crazy after all in not seeing comments from my contacts that post the most.
Looking forward to the whole issue being resolved.
Posted 52 months ago.
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A wonderful explanation of the problem...you lasered it beautifully. :-)
Addendum: I just got notified that a long-time mutual contact had added me as a contact. That hasn't happened before.
Now I think I'll concentrate on the political debates for a while.
Posted 52 months ago.
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I can understand how frustrating the current situation is to the users posting in this Forum. However, there are a lot of people who help others on the Forum daily such as The Searcher and MichaelSmith. And they do so with little or no gratitude. That being said, Kevin has posted information here as this is the Official Topic for this problem. Would you rather have the information in one central location for everyone to see the questions and answers that have been supplied and allow the Staff to continue working on the problem? Or would you rather they waste their time posting the information across evey facet of the site? I'm not saying Flickr is perfect and that it doesn't have more than it's fair share of bugs. Just give them a break and let them work this out so they can move on to other complaints.
Posted 52 months ago.
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myjuditz: the work of those who dug around and helped to identify this problem is appreciated by all Flickr users.
Posted 52 months ago.
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*labaronesa* yes - who is a contact of whom is really screwed at the moment. An earlier poster identified that over half of her contacts had disappeared.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Thank You, Kevin. I glad to hear the matter is getting top priority.
Posted 52 months ago.
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myjuditz: it's possible that Flickr staff feels the same way you do, and don't want to respond when someone comes in and tells them they're lying about everything they do, all the time (which you said, quite clearly). If you're looking where the random hostility may stem from, you might want to look inward. Beyond your random stabs at staff, however, you've done as much as any of the loudest voices in here to make this issue public and apparent for all, and it is commendable and you should not be, nor have, been shouted down for doing so.
but yes, taking an easy shot at staff, when they're obviously working on this and have been as truthful to us with the info they have, tends to make me call foul. So I'm sorry, but I will continue to speak up against pointless attacks, as much as I will add my voice to the growing chorus of people wanting this issue fixed.
Back on that: a bunch of my contacts vanished a few hours ago, and then came back. Is that what others are seeing? Or are they staying vanished?
Posted 52 months ago.
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I hope a remedy is found soon. Today, under my contacts photo, were photos taken in May of 2007, plus some of my photos... Many of my contacts are showing at all, and there are contacts showing that I have no connection with... and contacts that I interact with that won't show at all... I realize Flickr is a huge site, and problems happen, but it is nice to have it posted where it can be found. Good luck!
Posted 52 months ago.
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No-one has listed you as a contact. Yet.
Lol! Well, that explains it all!
Posted 52 months ago.
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something was up, so i came to the help forum to see what was going on. is that really so hard for other people to do?
i understand the frustration here, i've been affected by this for a month too in various ways, but, some of the folks in here need to get some perspective.
this is a huge photo sharing website. if the system isnt functioning like it should, then obviously flickr staff would be trying to correct the problem as fast as they can.
it's not personal, people. if you're super concerned, try posting a note on your page to let your contacts know what's up.
Posted 52 months ago.
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hi dunno if this has been reported
people add me as a contact and the flickrmail indicates that they have added me too, even though the person who added me as a contact is not contact of mine
Posted 52 months ago.
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@scubapup -- that sounds like it's working as it should. The contact system isn't mutual out of necessity -- anybody can add you as a contact, even if they aren't your contact. There does seem to be a part of this same database issue where you get a notice that someone has added you as a contact but when you go to their profile page it doesn't show you as a contact ... yet.
Posted 52 months ago.
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Kevin, thank you -- outstanding comment on what is going on and what you are doing to try to fix the issue. This is exactly the detailed but yet digestible information for everyone to understand.
I'd just take a another light jab, that this information would have gone a long way towards allaying people's fears, worries, and frustration. hind sight is always 20/20...
In a way the "old days" of the flickr massages while creating downtime was actually a nicety because everyone knew that you guys were working on some heavy duty fixing :)
good luck on the testing and implementation...always hard to bring it out of testing to production ;)
Posted 52 months ago.
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All.. I apologize if my previous comment was somewhat terse. It was truly a knee jerk reaction to what I saw as a personal problem. My day to day Flickr world had been upset and i was pissed about it. I still am. I'm well aware of the excellent work performed by the Flickr staff and appreciate the effort it takes to maintain a database of this size.
There are indeed people like TheSearcher and MichaelSmith and some others that have explained the problem within this forum Flickr staff apparently is working diligently to correct it.
That being said..
I wouldn't have known there was a problem in the first place unless i had been paying attention. For example, I'll occasionally check this script www.drewmyersphoto.net/flickr_scripts/cie/ to see if any of my contacts have made it to explore. I happened to check it today and noticed 4 pictures of my contacts I had never seen within Flikr proper. This prompted me to "look around" and check more of my contacts streams. Sure enough.. there were some photos within those streams that never appeared on my "Photos from your contacts" list.
(Note-there wasn't a flood from individual contacts.)
Point being.. I would have never known there was a problem if I hadn't figured it out on my own. I would have appreciated a heads up the problem even existed from the Flickr staff. A general notice to the masses would have been satisfactory. As it is.. I wonder what photographs I have missed the chance to see..
I promise never to bring up Facebook again. :-)
Posted 52 months ago.
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Kevin.... thanks !! I know everyone there is working hard to fix this frustrating problem.... good luck.... you will get there....
we just have to watch more television for a while..... :-))
Posted 52 months ago.
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good luck and hope you work it through soon......
Posted 52 months ago.
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Kevin, thanks for the update - the info is hugely appreciated! I hope the implementation of the upgrades/fixes go smoothly for you guys and girls.
I still think a site wide announcement would be good - but that's a decision for Flickr to make. I'm just happy to have been given some idea of what's being done.
I will now try to wait patiently for the fixes to work their magic. :-)
Posted 52 months ago.
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I should have a nest of contacts waiting to invite to a group, but now I am told I have none.
I tried to invite on two different groups, one of whom is brand new, so I should have most of my contacts available there.
Flickr wouldn't show me it at all, claiming I had none.
The flickr-system must be malfunctioning!!!! How do I reach management to report this problem?
Posted 52 months ago.
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This message is not directed at the rational replies entered into this forum in the last few hours. But I'm just appalled at much of what I've read in these eight pages of comments:
Oh my god, I don't think I've ever seen such a nutty group of total whiny babies. "Irreversible damages"? Really? What is it exactly that you use Flickr for that you might experience irreversible damages when the Contacts portion of the one of the world's most complex and largest databases goes a little wonky? Have you even read the terms of service? In case you haven't (and it doesn't look like you have), this is what is promised for your $25/year:
Flickr pro provides subscribers with unlimited uploads (10 MB per photo), unlimited photo storage, unlimited bandwidth, unlimited sets, archiving of high resolution originals, the ability to post your photos in up to sixty (60) group pools, the ability to replace a photo and advertising-free browsing and sharing.
That's it. Nothing more than that. No discussion regarding up time, or any of the standard features that you've enjoyed for months. Have they not upheld their obligation to you, their customer? Any other functionality is gravy, more reason to love and use the site. They've even protected themselves from indemnity. Any claims of "loss" or "damages" are not only moot, they're bogus. So relax a bit and contemplate what's happening behind the scenes here.
There are some things about which you can say, "it's not like it's rocket science." Having an educational background in chemical engineering and a decent understanding of what it takes to design a chemical engine and the mathematics necessary to negotiate orbital mechanics and to devise a viable flight plan, I can tell you that in some ways, the low-level design, optimisation, and maintenance of a database of this scale is sometimes even more abstruse than rocket science. Sometimes it's downright intractable. This type of database design employs high-degree, multi-faceted combinatorics that would boggle your mind. Some of the data relations and lookups required by the functionality of this site verge on non-deterministic Polynomial time complete problems, and yet still they find a solution. I'm not saying that the Flick developers have PhDs in mathematics (although some of them probably do), but simply: pause and consider the complexity of the problems these guys face.
And while we're at it, ponder the business processes involved. Who knows how many simultaneous initiatives to release cool new functionality different groups are currently working on, all with requirements and development timelines worked out months in advance, with carefully planned testing schedules in a limited number of test environments that are in constant flux due to the competing (and sometimes completely conflicting) technical requirements that naturally result from shifting technology, business priorities, and customer demands? And then some random bug like this creeps up: it's a total shock to everything currently in the works. Each initiative may have had different project timelines, meaning that they may have been initially designed to work with different versions of: database engines, web service modules, web servers, application servers, XML schemas, file server virtualisation methodologies, heck, maybe even slightly different JVMs whose only difference is how they define the three-letter acronyms for time zones across the globe but which would have a huge impact on how to design the code that determines how long ago an edit to a contact's comments was made relative to you. Negotiating when to insert wide sweeping changes to the database structure with all these moving parts is just as easy as negotiating peace in the Middle East. I just don't think you appreciate the magnitude of what is being dealt with here.
Say there's some uber-cool new functionality that's been in Test for a month and is 3/4 of the way through completion, but the new functionality requires a different database engine than what's currently in production and the new engine implements database structure changes a little differently than the version currently in Production. Does it make sense to expend the effort devising, developing, and testing a solution that will work in Production today, but which will have to be redesigned, redeveloped, and retested to work with the changes that are already slated to hit Production next week, especially since the problem will reintroduce itself if you introduce the new functionality without the fix specific to that environment configuration in place? No, it doesn't. Delay the fix a bit and do it right, once.
Of course, you can't even test your solution until you know that all the changes for the new features have been positively tested and are code-frozen, so that way you know that the new solution will work with the final version of the new functionality. And then of course, when you finally do get to test it, you have to retest every piece of functionality ever introduced to Flickr since the beginning of time to make sure that no regressions to the application were introduced with your "fix".
These systems facilitate tens of thousands of transactions a minute and house 2.3 billion images and millions of user accounts (and growing), probably spread over about ten petabytes (that's ten thousand thousand gigabytes) of data, all of which is redundantly backed up and are connected by intricate and multi-faceted functional connections in the database that keeps track of it all and which dynamically populates information and image data to tens of thousands of web pages a moment that are built from scratch and served up every time you click a button or link.
Consider the complexity of the human neural net. God designed that, and even it doesn't always work as you'd expect it to (the bugs are more apparent with some Flickr users than others). This database and the systems it serves are only slightly less complicated, and these guys aren't God.
And you're really going to chip in your puny subscription fee once a year and then sit there on your arse and whine about auxiliary functionality that doesn't work as well as it did a few months ago? You really must not have anything better to do. Meanwhile, these guys are balancing fixes to known issues with the continuous development of new features and functionality that go beyond what was promised for the $25-$75 you've paid so far and certainly beyond that which has been delivered to millions of non-Pro users who haven't paid a dime. These guys don't have a life and their families haven't seen them in weeks, just so you can sit there and also not have a life while you service your Flickr addiction.
Is the problem annoying? Sure. Should Flickr expediently and widely broadcast its knowledge of the problem and its plan for resolution? You bet. But you're really going to demand compensation for Pro subscribers because functionality that was never promised is only partially being delivered momentarily? Wow.
Wow.
You accepted the terms of service, so swallow it like an adult and just give these guys a break and let them do their incredibly difficult but largely thankless job.
Lastly, consider one other thing:
Kurt Godel proved his incompleteness theorems in 1931, which state For any consistent formal, computable enumerable theory that proves basic arithmetical truths, an arithmetic statement that is true but not provable in the theory can be constructed. That is, any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. Additionally, For any formal recursively enumerable (i.e. effectively generated) theory T including basic arithmetical truths and also certain truths about formal provability, T includes a statement of its own consistency if and only if T is inconsistent. The simplest way to describe this is to state that no non-trivial, closed, formal system can ever prove its own axioms. This all means that any system that implies its own infallibility is necessarily inconsistent.
In other words, it's mathematically impossible for these guys to release a system with no bugs. That's not to say it can't be better, and these guys are certainly doing their best.
Even with the bugs, as far as I'm concerned, Wikipedia is right (and what's not to love about Truth By Consensus?): Flickr is the best damn photography site in the world. Period. I love these guys for all their effort. The Flickr staff rocks my world, I'm rooting for their speedy resolution of what is, in the grand scheme of things, a minor inconvenience.
Posted 52 months ago.
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@ vertigelt - Well said!
Posted 52 months ago.
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My contact page acts crazy - please try to fix it. !!!! Thank you!
Posted 52 months ago.
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You kind of lost me at "abstruse". and I think you're just making stuff up with "combinatorics".
but well said. I think.
Posted 52 months ago.
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But the sad thing is that so many people are not aware of this issue, hence the calls for an announcement. If they don't know they may continue to assume that all is working fine and friends are simply not posting. Check my above quote of a comment.
Hi, I just mis-read this line for a moment "She says she's not been on Flickr this week.", as "She says she's not keen on Flickr this week"!! :D I was about to concur! :))
mentioned, people would be accommodating as long as they know what's happening.
(vortals aren't related to stoats, are they?) 
A wonderful explanation of the problem...you lasered it beautifully. :-)
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